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As title said, Who can beat Superman with his full potential unlocked？
Superman have one-punched World Forger.
And, Dr Manhattan have thought that Superman is ultimate Guardian of DC cosmology despite there are countless over multiversal
beings in DC cosmology.
So,How powerful is Superman with his true potential?

As powerful as the plot needs.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
As powerful as the plot needs.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
As powerful as the plot needs.
I agree.
Is it without any limit?

50 Thors

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
As powerful as the plot needs. /thread.

NO ONE!!!

KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters

Originally posted by tkitna
KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters This is 100 percent true. Only on KMC is Superman unbeatable. Tons of characters would beat him down anywhere else 👍

Originally posted by JBL
This is 100 percent true. Only on KMC is Superman unbeatable. Tons of characters would beat him down anywhere else 👍
Do you understand that this Superman is not average Superman who always hold back?

Originally posted by tkitna
KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters

Originally posted by CatL18
Do you understand that this Superman is not average Superman who always hold back? So. He's no stronger when he goes all out. Don't fall for that OWAW crap. I personally debunked that crap with no response.

Originally posted by JBL
So. He's no stronger when he goes all out. Don't fall for that OWAW crap. I personally debunked that crap with no response. dur

Originally posted by JBL
So. He's no stronger when he goes all out. Don't fall for that OWAW crap. I personally debunked that crap with no response.

Oh then you must not have seen where galan thoroughly debunks the idea that supes having dynamic strength in owaw is debunkable, via on panel confirmed, via full uncropped scans. Very cool stuff.

Originally posted by tkitna
KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters Originally posted by JBL
This is 100 percent true. Only on KMC is Superman unbeatable. Tons of characters would beat him down anywhere else 👍 Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


I MADE THIS A REALITY!!!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/fb48a45b815a48a505fb1c375ae1a655/tumblr_mh9j9rQhn41r0uwm4o1_r1_400.gif

Originally posted by tkitna
KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters

This

Originally posted by tkitna
KMC - No one

Anywhere else - tons of characters Irrelevant post

So many people reading comics without understanding them...

Batman, easily.

Originally posted by JBL
So. He's no stronger when he goes all out. Don't fall for that OWAW crap. I personally debunked that crap with no response.
Superman with his potential and without holding backone-punched World Forger at least.
At least,He is far stronger than you downplay.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So many people reading comics without understanding them...
I can understand the concept of Superman.
I know he is as strong as plot needs him to be.
But, I want to know how powerful Superman can be if entire DC cosmlogy is at stake.
Dr Manhattan confirmed that literally everything in DC revolve around Superman.
So, I want to know what people think about this fact.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Oh then you must not have seen where galan thoroughly debunks the idea that supes having dynamic strength in owaw is debunkable, via on panel confirmed, via full uncropped scans. Very cool stuff. Superman in OWAW was doing nothing to those probes, yet WW, Doomsday, WW mother and Zod were destroying probes. So are you telling me that a normal Superman is not equal to them? And he's only equal to them when he's not holding back? You see, those four had no problem killing. Superman on the other hand did, that's why mongul had to teach him to fight like them.

Originally posted by CatL18
Superman with his potential and without holding backone-punched World Forger at least.
At least,He is far stronger than you downplay. Superman was amped by multiple Suns.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman was amped by multiple Suns.
He was hugely depowered by World Forger.

Originally posted by CatL18
I can understand the concept of Superman.
I know he is as strong as plot needs him to be.
But, I want to know how powerful Superman can be if entire DC cosmlogy is at stake.
Dr Manhattan confirmed that literally everything in DC revolve around Superman.
So, I want to know what people think about this fact.

As of Doomsday Clock, there are zero narrative limits on Superman anymore. I mean, there really weren't before, but this is the most blatant I've seen DC be about him in years.

I ****ing hate it, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by CatL18
He was hugely depowered by World Forger.

He is beyond totally rejuvenated after first sun.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As of Doomsday Clock, there are zero narrative limits on Superman anymore. I mean, there really weren't before, but this is the most blatant I've seen DC be about him in years.

I ****ing hate it, but it is what it is.
Thank you.
I thought that recently,not only Superman but almost every main Justice Leaguers like Hal or Barry or Diana,etc have been PUMPPED up since years ago.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
He is beyond totally rejuvenated after first sun.

Why can't people understand this? Its like their minds go blank when they think about this ft. I just don't get it. How many times do people have to let the zombies know that he was amped.

Originally posted by CatL18
Thank you.
I thought that recently,not only Superman but almost every main Justice Leaguers like Hal or Barry or Diana,etc have been PUMPPED up since years ago.

Yeah, power creep has been an issue for a while. Even what most would classify B and C list characters have seen major bumps in power levels and feats. Feats are even starting to resemble some pre-crisis silliness at times. Sure, they're better fleshed out now because you can google shit, but a lot of them are no less ridiculous.

Originally posted by carver9
Why can't people understand this? Its like their minds go blank when they think about this ft. I just don't get it. How many times do people have to let the zombies know that he was amped.

It's because whether it's true or not, in the end it doesn't matter. The WF feat is massive either way. And the funny thing is, on top of all that, the WF feat isn't why Superman is rated so highly. It was (along with Doomsday Clock) the straw that broke the camel's back.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, power creep has been an issue for a while. Even what most would classify B and C list characters have seen major bumps in power levels and feats. Feats are even starting to resemble some pre-crisis silliness at times. Sure, they're better fleshed out now because you can google shit, but a lot of them are no less ridiculous.

Thank you.I agree.
Personally, I often read Superman, Batman,Flash,JL related books.
But,I can't catch up with other books because I am not native.

I really don't know why people would still contest Superman's status as DC's #1 defender when the stakes are absolute..?

Doctor Manhattan, who had heavily studied the intricate superstructure of the multiverse/metaverse, outright stated that Superman is the "greatest antibody" in creation when it comes to dealing with any sort of threat(even one as powerful as himself.) Hell, the very fact that Manhattan thought it was fully possible for Superman to destroy him speaks volumes.

It is certainly not a new concept either... It just validates older scenes like this:
https://i.imgur.com/3nW7Pf0.jpg
Regarding the Trinity(ie. Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman):
"It's in their essential nature to dominate ANY setting..."
"The other two defer to Superman..."
"Of course they're going to let him take point. Experience tells them it's the most sensible thing to do."


How many times does Superman need to prove this for people to accept it? Honestly.

I dont think your scan proves your statements though. Statements are nice and all. I would love to think Hulk is more powerful than the entire Celestial race and that Hulk is the most powerful being in existence but when there isn't much backing those claims up, they become just that, claims. Nice scans though.

It's like you didn't understand a word he said...

Originally posted by carver9
I dont think your scan proves your statements though. Statements are nice and all. I would love to think Hulk is more powerful than the entire Celestial race and that Hulk is the most powerful being in existence but when there isn't much backing those claims up, they become just that, claims. Nice scans though.

https://i.imgur.com/OAaRV.gif

So Galan is Wesley.....

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's like you didn't understand a word he said...

I understood it. It just doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by carver9
I understood it. It just doesn't work like that.

Your reply to him suggests otherwise.

Originally posted by carver9
I understood it. It just doesn't work like that. So you think Manhattan was wrong?

Originally posted by -Pr-
So many people reading comics without understanding them...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, power creep has been an issue for a while. Even what most would classify B and C list characters have seen major bumps in power levels and feats. Feats are even starting to resemble some pre-crisis silliness at times. Sure, they're better fleshed out now because you can google shit, but a lot of them are no less ridiculous.



It's because whether it's true or not, in the end it doesn't matter. The WF feat is massive either way. And the funny thing is, on top of all that, the WF feat isn't why Superman is rated so highly. It was (along with Doomsday Clock) the straw that broke the camel's back. thing is pr, isn't it all silliness? Pre-crisis, post, nu52 etc... aren't superheroes highly enjoyable silliness? Other than that spot on

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Viewpoint 1 cannot be true, as there ARE outside forces controlling it - the 'real-world' company, DC.

I know. I'm talking about making it obvious and breaking the immersion.

Like for example, compare it to the MCU and the scene in Endgame where all the female heroes gather around and start kicking ass. Obviously manufactured to showcase stronkk wahmen and breaks the immersion for a moment with real world identity politics, but doesn't really change things for the worse in the bigger picture.

Turning Superman into Saitama does break immersion and changes things for the worse.

Edit: And I wouldn't compare Superman to Batman. Two totally different styles of selling a character. I also have issues with Batman, but that's another story. Yet I don't think that he is as bad as Superman, when it comes to "being a symbol" and riding that into oblivion.

Originally posted by Galan007



How many times does Superman need to prove this for people to accept it? Honestly.

Because it takes away from their fandom i suppose

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
thing is pr, isn't it all silliness? Pre-crisis, post, nu52 etc... aren't superheroes highly enjoyable silliness? Other than that spot on

Not personally, but hey, if that's what you get from it, that's fine. I can't rag on anyone for enjoying something even if I don't like it myself.

Originally posted by Galan007
So you think Manhattan was wrong?

I look at Manhattan statement the same way I look at the Avengers statement on Hulk being the most dangerous/powerful villain they've ever faced.

Manhattan isn't the Avengers, though.

Manhattan studied the superstructure of the metaverse(across all the fundamental points in its timeline) at a far deeper level than anyone has before, and made three distinct conclusions:
a.) Everything comes from Superman -- the metaverse itself literally revolves around him.
b.) Superman is the metaverse's "greatest antibody" when it comes to dealing with threats to creation.
c.) That it was entirely possible for Superman to kill him.

Do we have any reason at all to assume that he was wrong about any of those points, and just speaking in hyperbole to himself?

Originally posted by Enzeru
I know. I'm talking about making it obvious and breaking the immersion.

Like for example, compare it to the MCU and the scene in Endgame where all the female heroes gather around and start kicking ass. Obviously manufactured to showcase stronkk wahmen and breaks the immersion for a moment with real world identity politics, but doesn't really change things for the worse in the bigger picture.

Turning Superman into Saitama does break immersion and changes things for the worse.

Edit: And I wouldn't compare Superman to Batman. Two totally different styles of selling a character. I also have issues with Batman, but that's another story. Yet I don't think that he is as bad as Superman, when it comes to "being a symbol" and riding that into oblivion.

Then it is what it is, and we have to debate off what is shown on panel.

Otherwise, we might as well just stick to handbooks. So and so is a 6, and your guy is a 5, so that's done and dusted.

Originally posted by Galan007
Manhattan isn't the Avengers, though.

Manhattan studied the superstructure of the metaverse(across all the fundamental points in its timeline) at a far deeper level than anyone has before, and made three distinct conclusions:
a.) Everything comes from Superman -- the metaverse itself literally revolves around him.
b.) Superman is the metaverse's "greatest antibody" when it comes to dealing with threats to creation.
c.) That it was entirely possible for Superman to kill him.

Do we have any reason at all to assume that he was wrong about any of those points, and just speaking in hyperbole to himself?

The way I see it, "joke characters" and "meta-fictional characters" are independent categories. Thus all the following combinations are possible:

1. meta-fictional, joke: Deadpool, Mxy, ...
2. meta-fictional, not joke: Superman, Mandrakk, Clyde Wyncham / Marquis of Death, Dr. Manhattan, ...
3. not meta-fictional, joke: Saitama, Squirrel-Girl, ... (i.e. "gag characters" with ridiculously OP powers but still unable to see or manipulate the story at meta-level) or Speedball, Ringer, Stilt-Man, ... (i.e. characters with so silly powers that they usually cannot be taken seriously)
4. not meta-fictional, not joke: Wolverine, Hulk, Wonder Woman, Robin, ... (most comic book characters belong to this class).

I think Empty Hand can kill Superman without holding back because EH is us.
When we reject dreaming and hoping, Superman is no more.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not personally, but hey, if that's what you get from it, that's fine. I can't rag on anyone for enjoying something even if I don't like it myself. Fair enough, same mate

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
NO ONE!!!

Originally posted by CatL18
I think Empty Hand can kill Superman without holding back because EH is us.
When we reject dreaming and hoping, Superman is no more.

Also possibly this

Silver Surfer and Thor.

Originally posted by Galan007
Manhattan isn't the Avengers, though.

Manhattan studied the superstructure of the metaverse(across all the fundamental points in its timeline) at a far deeper level than anyone has before, and made three distinct conclusions:
a.) Everything comes from Superman -- the metaverse itself literally revolves around him.
b.) Superman is the metaverse's "greatest antibody" when it comes to dealing with threats to creation.
c.) That it was entirely possible for Superman to kill him.

Do we have any reason at all to assume that he was wrong about any of those points, and just speaking in hyperbole to himself?

Love how Carver just casually ignores this.

Originally posted by carver9
Silver Surfer and Thor.

Sore Loser here

Originally posted by carver9
I dont think your scan proves your statements though. Statements are nice and all. I would love to think Hulk is more powerful than the entire Celestial race and that Hulk is the most powerful being in existence but when there isn't much backing those claims up, they become just that, claims. Nice scans though.



Carver, reading your post always puts a smile on my face.

Originally posted by SquallX
Carver, reading your post always puts a smile on my face.

I'm always here to help.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman was amped by multiple Suns.

Wrong

Originally posted by Galan007
Manhattan isn't the Avengers, though.

Manhattan studied the superstructure of the metaverse(across all the fundamental points in its timeline) at a far deeper level than anyone has before, and made three distinct conclusions:
a.) Everything comes from Superman -- the metaverse itself literally revolves around him.
b.) Superman is the metaverse's "greatest antibody" when it comes to dealing with threats to creation.
c.) That it was entirely possible for Superman to kill him.

Do we have any reason at all to assume that he was wrong about any of those points, and just speaking in hyperbole to himself?

Carver, hello!

You're right, he needs the tenacity of jbl jr.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
You're right, he needs the tenacity of jbl jr.



Apparently someone has been paying attention

Originally posted by CatL18
As title said, Who can beat Superman with his full potential unlocked？
Superman have one-punched World Forger.
And, Dr Manhattan have thought that Superman is ultimate Guardian of DC cosmology despite there are countless over multiversal
beings in DC cosmology.
So,How powerful is Superman with his true potential?

I don't think he can be beaten physically....mentally however Joker would wreck him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I don't think he can be beaten physically....mentally however Joker would wreck him.

SILENCE DOG KILLER!!!

SUPERMAN BEYOND proves this wench to be a brazen liar!

Originally posted by BrolyBlack


Apparently someone has been paying attention

I always pay attention to children with incredible abilities, that literally defy the typical parameters of child psychology. I take jbl at face value and think he should be proud of his prodigy savant child. Then again i could have misinterpreted jbl when he said his 5 year old talks to comic writers and ascribed intelligence to jbl jr. Instead of ascribing a lack of sophistication on jbl's understanding of comics, which does seem to be through the lens of a 5 year old... Or jbl jr. Could be a total fabrication because using the imagery and emotional associations of a child can be disarming and it takes a particular kind of sicko to lie about kids, and we all know jbl is just a normal stable genius of a guy who thinks the superman wank is unjustified.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
I always pay attention to children with incredible abilities, that literally defy the typical parameters of child psychology. I take jbl at face value and think he should be proud of his prodigy savant child. Then again i could have misinterpreted jbl when he said his 5 year old talks to comic writers and ascribed intelligence to jbl jr. Instead of ascribing a lack of sophistication on jbl's understanding of comics, which does seem to be through the lens of a 5 year old... Or jbl jr. Could be a total fabrication because using the imagery and emotional associations of a child can be disarming and it takes a particular kind of sicko to lie about kids, and we all know jbl is just a normal stable genius of a guy who thinks the superman wank is unjustified.

Bravo, you should post here more

Originally posted by ilikecomics
You're right, he needs the tenacity of jbl jr. Statements mean nothing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
P

Plus, they were tiny suns.

Remember how people tried to downplay the planet shattering? 'What's the size', 'It could be hollow', 'What's it made of'......
Yeah hollow lol and then 50 jumps. LMAO

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I don't think he can be beaten physically....mentally however Joker would wreck him. yup.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Yeah hollow lol and then 50 jumps. LMAO jumping on a planet?? LMAO. Let him shatter one with his fist standing on the planet without flight assist. Like Gladiator did.

Was Gladiator half-dead at the time?

Originally posted by ilikecomics
I always pay attention to children with incredible abilities, that literally defy the typical parameters of child psychology. I take jbl at face value and think he should be proud of his prodigy savant child. Then again i could have misinterpreted jbl when he said his 5 year old talks to comic writers and ascribed intelligence to jbl jr. Instead of ascribing a lack of sophistication on jbl's understanding of comics, which does seem to be through the lens of a 5 year old... Or jbl jr. Could be a total fabrication because using the imagery and emotional associations of a child can be disarming and it takes a particular kind of sicko to lie about kids, and we all know jbl is just a normal stable genius of a guy who thinks the superman wank is unjustified. Let's see if I can dumb this down some.. my dad met a lawyer, my dad fell for the lawyer and we were happy he did because mom had been dead for awhile.. dad eventually married the lawyer... The lawyer treated us very well... She then at one point introduced us to some of her and her brother friends, some of their friends were DC writers.. we became friends, they then met my son who loves comics. Now knowing they wrote comics, my son looked on kmc and seen people arguing with ridiculous Superman fans, my Son then thought what better way to get answers than to ask the writers themselves. After getting answers from the writers, he now know how big liars Superman fans are on KMC. Got it now?

None of what you just said goes against what ilikecomics wrote though...

LMAO!! Hulk destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth. Superman got knocked out by a shadow Moon. So hulk is millions of times stronger than Superman right?

Hulk was assisted by rocket boots, and it's a durability feat rather than a punching feat.

Just like if a bullet blows a human head up. No one says the bullet is stronger than a human....

My dad owned his own business and hired her when one of his former employees tried to sue because he got hurt on the job. We were already rich and now, I myself run the business. My son found out they were writers for DC when me and the writers became friends.

Meh why you guys still feed this when we have mod rulings already on Superman is beyond me.

Guess it keeps the forum alive.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Meh why you guys still feed this when we have mod rulings already on Superman is beyond me.

Guess it keeps the forum alive. Mods ruling is fine with me, but my writer friends hold far more weight. Trust me, they have seen the Mods ruling and laughed. So don't get mad at me for telling you this. Not one Mod has ever written a Superman comic. Writers saying, not mines.

Originally posted by JBL
Mods ruling is fine with me, but my writer friends hold far more weight. Trust me, they have seen the Mods ruling and laughed. So don't get mad at me for telling you this. Not one Mod has ever written a Superman comic. Writers saying, not mines.

Cool.

But continually bringing it up then goes against forum rules. You wish to discuss and bring it up anywhere else, that's perfectly fine and valid. But on THIS forum? Invalid. Not getting mad, merely pointing that out.

Isn't backseat moderating against the rules?

It's not backseat modding when you help remind members of forum rules

Otherwise, your post would/could be construed as just that. But it's not, right?

Originally posted by JBL
Mods ruling is fine with me, but my writer friends hold far more weight. Trust me, they have seen the Mods ruling and laughed. So don't get mad at me for telling you this. Not one Mod has ever written a Superman comic. Writers saying, not mines.

YOUR WRITER FRIENDS ARE UNTALENTED TRASH!!!

John Byrne, Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Dan Jurgens, Jeph Loeb ALL answer questions about Superman routinely on message boards and they have been extremely successful in the industry.

Have your "Writer friends" POST HERE or don't mention them anymore!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0aSxsTW0AAxHlD.jpg

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
YOUR WRITER FRIENDS ARE UNTALENTED TRASH!!!

John Byrne, Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Dan Jurgens, Jeph Loeb ALL answer questions about Superman routinely on message boards and they have been extremely successful in the industry.

Have your "Writer friends" POST HERE or don't mention them anymore! How many have answered questions on KMC?

None because writer interviews are inadmissible.

Originally posted by JBL
My dad owned his own business and hired her when one of his former employees tried to sue because he got hurt on the job. We were already rich and now, I myself run the business. My son found out they were writers for DC when me and the writers became friends. and this was when he was 3?

Originally posted by Diesldude
and this was when he was 3?

Exactly.

Originally posted by BackSeatMod85
It's not backseat modding when you help remind members of forum rules

Otherwise, your post would/could be construed as just that. But it's not, right?

You've made the list *scribbles furiously*

Lois.

Originally posted by JBL
How many have answered questions on KMC?

What comicbook message board are your "Writer friends "comfortable posting on?

Ask them so I can bring EVERY thread you find laughable there so we can see their expert opinions.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's not backseat modding when you help remind members of forum rules

Otherwise, your post would/could be construed as just that. But it's not, right?

How many times have you reminded members that bashing is against the rules?

Quite a few times actually. But even if I don't, what's your point please? That I have double standards?

How many times have you reminded people that interviews don't count etc? Or reminded people alt universes don't count? Or do you only single me out when attempting to remind people of the rules

Back to the thread. No one can.

Superman is in a class of his own. He LETS Batman win. This should end the thread.

That's what he likes telling himself.

"You let Batman win?"

"I do."

"And you believe that?"

"I do not."

The single thing causing me the most confusion about jbl's claims is that he first claims that 1.) he is friends with dc writers and 2.) that jbl gets his info about comics through his 5 year old son.

The second claim is the part that should raise red flags, if youre friends with dc writers then they should be your source of info. However im willing to bet that using a 5 year old child allows for two psychological tricks 1.) you get to say you dont read dc, thus you wouldn't be equipped to talk to your writer buds, but your 5 year old does like dc (which insinuates that people who read dc have the sensibilities of a 5 year old) and is thus equipped to talk to them. This lets you look down at dc fans in condescension, while still pretending to be in a forum style discourse on equal terms and 2.) saying your info is from a 5 year old allows you to have understandably vague insight into the things youre talking about, so if you come across as uninformed you can scapegoat the child.

And that's all assuming you actually have a son or actually have friends that write at dc. I dont think you do have a son and i think he's the aforementioned disarment construct and i dont think you know dc writers and that theyre just a construct that allow you to use the fallacy of appeal to expertise.

Also you should know the more adscititious details you add to an explanation the more it seems mendacious. If youre going to lie you should look up how to be more effective; a little subtlety goes a long way.

Edit: in regard to the thread; no one, without destroying the multiverse too.

Smh. Why do I even bother. Granddad always told us to avoid certain people on the internet. Anyways, plenty characters can beat Superman but cannot beat KMC Superman.

Originally posted by JBL
Granddad always told us to avoid certain people on the internet.

Maybe jbl jr is actually just jbl, which would make jbl 5 and his granddad around 45, which is enough time to build up familiarity with common internet conventions i.e. who to look out for to not talk to.

Ive never seen anything like this.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That totally reminds me of that Julius Ceasar quote: Don't believe everything on the internet.

Originally posted by JBL
Statements mean nothing.

I agree your statements mean nothing