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Darkseid w/ALE vs entire Ivory King race

Who wins?

Ivory Kings win, unless the suggestion here is that Darkseid is on, or above the Living Tribunal's level.

I do wonder if the ALE would have any effect on the Ivory Kings..? mmm

Originally posted by Stoic
Ivory Kings win, unless the suggestion here is that Darkseid is on, or above the Living Tribunal's level.

Why was beings far less than LT beating them down?

Ivory Kings stomp.

Originally posted by Galan007
I do wonder if the ALE would have any effect on the Ivory Kings..? mmm

But that blast that one shot killed the AM would.

Darkseid gets turned into a Swiss cheese sandwich

Only true Darkseid as the idea of evil will be able to defeat Ivory Kings.

Originally posted by CatL18
Only true Darkseid as the idea of evil will be able to defeat Ivory Kings.

Yet Thor and Hype were ripping through them like tissue papers.

Originally posted by SquallX
Yet Thor and Hype were ripping through them like tissue papers.

Yes. A pretty multiversal level feat for Thor and Hype.

Ivory Kings

ivory kings won't have a problem

The Green is Earth based. So The Green of 52 Earths KOs DS. That's well below IKs.

One Ivory King wins and burns the entire Florida state.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
ivory kings won't have a problem

Originally posted by TheHulkster
The Green is Earth based. So The Green of 52 Earths KOs DS. That's well below IKs.

Power girl also nearly stalemated him while also snatching out his eye during the process in a drawn out fight.

They werent killing. They were smashing their physical bodies.

Starbrand is not relegated to "planetary".

@Squall...

More than 5 panels, buddy and she did it solo...

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111196008/5781474-4.jpg
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111196008/5781485-5.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111196008/5781489-6.jpg
https://m.imgur.com/5Cw5Mdf

Also, when did Thor and Hyperion KILL Beyonders? Scans please.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They werent killing. They were smashing their physical bodies. Which is still absolutely ridiculous, imo, given that it still removed them from the battle.

Then the entire damn race of Beyonders were destroyed by a blast that was infinitely below multiversal.

Yeeeeeep. Their power levels were so over the place it makes it difficult to accurately gauge them

High-highs, low-lows, and really nothing in between.

Originally posted by Galan007
Which is still absolutely ridiculous, imo, given that it still removed them from the battle.

Then the entire damn race of Beyonders were destroyed by a blast that was infinitely below multiversal.
Yup.
Thor & Hype were beastly.




And as far as "multiversal" blast, energy blasts can be very abstruse at times... And this is their own power turned against them. You cant just try to quantify or place a number on them as easily as a physical attack. Way too many factors can be involved.

You kind of can, though.

Each Owen in the multiverse was identical -- they were all created to destroy a universe when they detonated. The blast released by Doom's Owen-bomb destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes(which means it was stuffed with hundreds of thousands of Owens), and killed the entire race of Beyonders.

I don't think it was ever implied that the Beyonders had some kind of weakness to the energy they placed inside the Owens, was it?

I don't think it works like that, Galan and who in comics have survived an attack more powerful or as powerful as the one that took out the Beyonders?

The heat of 10 billion suns hurt a being that is considered as being one of the most powerful characters in DC...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235287/4953629-8239182809-gXrQY.jpg

I dont know how many Universes of energy is 10 billion suns worth of energy is but it ain't CLOSE to what the Beyonders endured. Glad we look at who the attack came from vs anything else.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think it works like that, Galan and who in comics have survived an attack more powerful or as powerful as the one that took out the Beyonders? Why doesn't it work like that?

Every single Owen in the multiverse is identical- they each destroy a universe when they detonate:
https://i.ibb.co/xYbK5BP/New-Avengers-033-012.jpg https://i.ibb.co/vd0kvb5/New-Avengers-033-013.jpg


And the Owen bomb's detonation destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes:
https://i.ibb.co/kqLyVbY/New-Avengers-033-029.jpg https://i.ibb.co/yycF89P/New-Avengers-033-030.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Wn1vQZr/New-Avengers-033-031.jpg https://i.ibb.co/SdLhxzc/New-Avengers-033-033.jpg


Which managed to wipe out ALL the Beyonders, and enable Doom/Owen to absorb their cumulative power.


Just saying there's a HUGE discrepancy between their feats. Three Beyonders killed multiversal LT, for example, yet the entire race was destroyed by a detonation that was infinitely below multiversal.

...And that's aside from the Ex Nihilii, Starbrand, and Thor/Hype destroying their physical forms as well.

Again, they have some really high-highs, some really low-lows(comparatively), and nothing in between to help gauge them. That's my point.

Originally posted by carver9
The heat of 10 billion suns hurt a being that is considered as being one of the most powerful characters in DC...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235287/4953629-8239182809-gXrQY.jpg

I dont know how many Universes of energy is 10 billion suns worth of energy is but it ain't CLOSE to what the Beyonders endured. Glad we look at who the attack came from vs anything else.

Why does everything always go back to Superman with you?

Originally posted by Galan007
Why doesn't it work like that?

Every single Owen in the multiverse is identical- they each destroy a universe when they detonate:
https://i.ibb.co/xYbK5BP/New-Avengers-033-012.jpg https://i.ibb.co/vd0kvb5/New-Avengers-033-013.jpg


And the Owen bomb's detonation destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes:
https://i.ibb.co/kqLyVbY/New-Avengers-033-029.jpg https://i.ibb.co/yycF89P/New-Avengers-033-030.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Wn1vQZr/New-Avengers-033-031.jpg https://i.ibb.co/SdLhxzc/New-Avengers-033-033.jpg


Which managed to wipe out ALL the Beyonders, and enable Doom/Owen to absorb their cumulative power.


Just saying there's a HUGE discrepancy between their feats. Three Beyonders killed multiversal LT, for example, yet the entire race was destroyed by a detonation that was infinitely below multiversal.

...And that's aside from the Ex Nihilii, Starbrand, and Thor/Hype destroying their physical forms as well.

Again, they have some really high-highs, some really low-lows(comparatively), and nothing in between to help gauge them. That's my point.

Why does everything always go back to Superman with you? . The heck does the blood of 52 universes mean. That was all hyperbole to mean a lot.

Originally posted by Galan007
You kind of can, though.

Each Owen in the multiverse was identical -- they were all created to destroy a universe when they detonated. The blast released by Doom's Owen-bomb destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes(which means it was stuffed with hundreds of thousands of Owens), and killed the entire race of Beyonders.

I don't think it was ever implied that the Beyonders had some kind of weakness to the energy they placed inside the Owens, was it?
They Owens were built to destroy the universe they were placed in yes... But taking into account all of Molecule Man's appearances, who's to say they are just universal in scope.
We actually dont know how many Owens were used to create doom's bomb(not 100% sure). I say this because its not always black and white when it comes to quantifying energies especially from beings of this level. Now you stack power with multiple Owens. Things get really murky for me at least.
Also i could be wrong again, but did the entirety of the Beyonders get destroyed during the explosion? It was a bit ambiguous to me. I dont recall a hard and fast statement that says this.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They Owens were built to destroy the universe they were placed in yes... But taking into account all of Molecule Man's appearances, who's to say they are just universal in scope.
We actually dont know how many Owens were used to create doom's bomb(not 100% sure). I say this because its not always black and white when it comes to quantifying energies especially from beings of this level. Now you stack power with multiple Owens. Things get really murky for me at least. We know that the Beyonders made Owen as a bomb. When one of him detonated, it would have destroyed that universe. When all of his infinite selves detonated, it would have destroyed the mutliverse:
https://i.ibb.co/61QGw4t/Secret-Wars-2015-005-012.jpg

Doom collected enough Owens that the resulting detonation destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes, but still left ~two dozen remaining. IOW, the detonation itself was definitely sub-multiversal. So my only point is that the Beyonders were destroyed by an explosion that wasn't even fully multiversal, despite it only taking 3 of them to kill the multiversal LT earlier in the story.

Just seems wildly inconsistent to me.

I'm normally not a fan of arguing about collateral damage, because it isn't always the end-all/be-all... But in this case it makes sense to me, because we actually KNOW the intended output of Owen himself and Doom's Owen bomb. /shrug

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Also i could be wrong again, but did the entirety of the Beyonders get destroyed during the explosion? It was a bit ambiguous to me. I dont recall a hard and fast statement that says this. That was the heavy implication, no? If the detonation wouldn't have eradicated the lot of them, then they almost certainly would have continued with their plans, and/or retaliated in some way.

Look at their encounter with the Multiversal Avengers- when the original two Beyonders were beaten, they responded by sending in dozens of Beyonders to kill Thor/Hype:
https://i.ibb.co/GHL7BJs/New-Avengers-032-020.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5B9Vjjn/New-Avengers-032-021.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9byGj28/New-Avengers-032-024.jpg

Yet after Doom stuffed the Owen bomb down their throats, the Beyonders did nothing... So logically speaking, that is because they were all destroyed.

srug

Originally posted by carver9
The heat of 10 billion suns hurt a being that is considered as being one of the most powerful characters in DC...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235287/4953629-8239182809-gXrQY.jpg

I dont know how many Universes of energy is 10 billion suns worth of energy is but it ain't CLOSE to what the Beyonders endured. Glad we look at who the attack came from vs anything else.



Because the attack was performed by a being of immense powers.

Originally posted by Galan007
We know that the Beyonders made Owen as a bomb. When one of him detonated, it would have destroyed that universe. When all of his infinite selves detonated, it would have destroyed the mutliverse:
https://i.ibb.co/61QGw4t/Secret-Wars-2015-005-012.jpg

Doom collected enough Owens that the resulting detonation destroyed hundreds of thousands of universes, but still left ~two dozen remaining. IOW, the detonation itself was definitely sub-multiversal. So my only point is that the Beyonders were destroyed by an explosion that wasn't even fully multiversal, despite it only taking 3 of them to kill the multiversal LT earlier in the story.

Just seems wildly inconsistent to me.

I'm normally not a fan of arguing about collateral damage, because it isn't always the end-all/be-all... But in this case it makes sense to me, because we KNOW the exact output of Owen himself and Doom's Owen bomb. /shrug

It would have destroyed the universe yes, but ithink it's too narrow a path follow based on 616 Owen's history.
And the level these guys play on, there's just too many factors to claim that it only takes an explosion that destroyed hundredes of thousands of universes(still ridiculously uber) to kill the entirety of the beyonders.

Theres also the fact that we dont exactly know how many Owens were actually turned into the bomb. And as ive said before, with Owen's history it's really difficult to say how many u even need to supposedly destroy all beyonders.
These guys have such an esoteric powerset and now you stack an unidentified amount of them? Too many factors i think for these types of characters.
So many examples of impossible math when stacking like sf darkseid and his soul caches, or Galactus on how powerful he is when he's satiated... I could go on, but...

Originally posted by Galan007

That was the heavy implication, no? If the detonation wouldn't have eradicated the lot of them, then they almost certainly would have continued with their plans, and/or retaliated in some way.

Look at their encounter with the Multiversal Avengers: when the original two Beyonders were beaten, they responded by sending in dozens of Beyonders to kill Thor/Hype:
https://i.ibb.co/GHL7BJs/New-Avengers-032-020.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5B9Vjjn/New-Avengers-032-021.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9byGj28/New-Avengers-032-024.jpg

Yet after Doom did his thing, they did nothing. Logically speaking, that is because they were all destroyed.

srug
Well...
One would think thats the logical case, but it almost never is. I almost look at beyonders and their machinations like imps. They rarely if ever make sense. One thing they follow is they seem to mess around, experiment, toy with the universe/multiverse and their inhabitants.

Those Who Sit Above in Shadow(heavily implied as Beyonders) were seemingly killed when Thor stopped the Ragnarok cycle that one time.. They were still around all along, and still playing games. We see them with god of stories Loki and still playing games with the gods outside of the multiverse. This was actually happening when god doom had supposedly killed the beyonder race already.

Jason Quantrell became an avatar of sorts for a small fraction of said Beyonders and actually I believe said it best.

https://i.ibb.co/CKZhB3J/RCO007-1470975410.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/3YnkBBm/RCO008-1470975410.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/ZzgFfNX/RCO009-1470975410.jpg

It's all a game to them.

I don't really agree(I think Owen's detonation is more quantifiable than you think), but fair enough.

We can agree to disagree.

Originally posted by SquallX
Because the attack was performed by a being of immense powers.

Glad you agree with me. Here's your answer Galan.