Angels invade Beyonder Verse

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BrolyBlack
Michael and Lucifer invade the Beyonder Verse

Can they destroy the Universe

deft
Holy molly, I voted by the Beyonders. My mistake.

Either of the two blink and the Ivory Kings gets obliterated from the existence.

meep-meep
Obvious spite. Angels win easily. Don't be like golgo.

BrolyBlack
How is it spite?

SquallX
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
How is it spite?

Because Michael can just kill himself and kill everyone, then come back.

Or Lucifer can just manipulate their energies.

MrMind
any lesser angels blink the beyonders away, let alone the brothers

meep-meep
Originally posted by MrMind
any lesser angels blink the beyonders away, let alone the brothers

Okay.

MrMind
gabriel hornblower

SquallX
Originally posted by MrMind
gabriel hornblower

That sounds like a stage name for a gay pornstar to be honest.

Stoic
Too mant what ifs. For all we know, the Angels may hold no authority within that multiverse.

Stoic
I also find it funny how writers have made Angels more powerful than they are in the bible, which says that they can be as small as a pin head, or as great as a mountain.

SquallX

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
Too mant what ifs. For all we know, the Angels may hold no authority within that multiverse. Good thing the rules here dictate that these fights take place on a neutral planet with favorable conditions to all participants.

Lestov16
Lucifer and Michael may wield God's metaphysical power, but Beyonder wields the pataphysical power of Ein Sof (as Jim Shooter says, "God Before Genesis"wink , which means that no matter what totality Michael creates and Lucifer manipulates, Beyonder exists on a level that transcends it. That's literally the point of his name.

(Assuming we're using pre-retcon Beyonder. If this is the Ivory Kings, then they put up a good fight but will probably go down if Michael and Lucy give an all-out blast)

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Good thing the rules here dictate that these fights take place on a neutral planet with favorable conditions to all participants.

The OP says that it takes place in the Beyonders multiverse though. Not neutral Space.

Stoic

Eon Blue
Gabriel HornBlower Boi solos.

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by Lestov16
Lucifer and Michael may wield God's metaphysical power, but Beyonder wields the pataphysical power of Ein Sof (as Jim Shooter says, "God Before Genesis"wink , which means that no matter what totality Michael creates and Lucifer manipulates, Beyonder exists on a level that transcends it. That's literally the point of his name.

(Assuming we're using pre-retcon Beyonder. If this is the Ivory Kings, then they put up a good fight but will probably go down if Michael and Lucy give an all-out blast)

Molecule Man had no problems dealing with Beyonder

Lestov16
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Molecule Man had no problems dealing with Beyonder

By no problems, you mean

1) Wielding (a infinitely small fraction of) the Beyonder's power
2) Being completely defenseless against Beyonder, to the point that he built a dome to protect himself and Beyonder showed and destroyed it for fun
3) was only able to redirect Beyonder's blast into creating a new multiverse.
4) was fighting Beyonder, who was bored and limited himself

Senor Cage
All angels? Angels win.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
The OP says that it takes place in the Beyonders multiverse though. Not neutral Space.

OP, is it your intention that Michael and Lucy have no authority in the Beyonder verse?

MrMind
Why would they have no authority in Beyonder verse?

I don't see any realm or existence stripping the angels power when they themselves came from the highest level of existence

anyone above monitors level in dc can stomp marvel these days

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
Too mant what ifs. For all we know, the Angels may hold no authority within that multiverse. They still had their full power in complete null-space -- that's where Lucifer created his multiverse. Don't know why the Beyond realm would be any different. /shrug

That said, I doubt the intent of this thread was for Lucifer/Michael to be powerless.

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP, is it your intention that Michael and Lucy have no authority in the Beyonder verse?

They have the same authority they do in their own verse

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by Stoic
Too mant what ifs. For all we know, the Angels may hold no authority within that multiverse.

Are you acting stupid on purpose?

You mean to suggest I made this thread against a verse of beyonders and sent the angels in powerless

So are you dumb or stupid?

zopzop
Three no name Beyonders took out the entire Marvel Multiverse. The angels stand ZERO chance.

MrMind
zop doesn't let his hate towards vertigo go unnoticed thumb up

zopzop
Originally posted by MrMind
zop doesn't let his hate towards vertigo go unnoticed thumb up
I don't hate Vertigo. I just think the characters are overrated and wanked beyond belief on this board.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by zopzop
Three no name Beyonders took out the entire Marvel Multiverse. The angels stand ZERO chance.

It's been awhile since I read it but didn't Starbrand and Ex Nihilo kill those same3?

SquallX
Originally posted by zopzop
Three no name Beyonders took out the entire Marvel Multiverse. The angels stand ZERO chance.

While Michael detonation held enough power for Lucifer to create and shape a new multiverse.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP, is it your intention that Michael and Lucy have no authority in the Beyonder verse?

I'm saying that it is an unknown, and within the Beyonder's verse they were everything. Take note that the original Beyonder had no idea what the good and evil dichotomy was. They may be absolutely powerless there.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
I'm saying that it is an unknown, and within the Beyonder's verse they were everything. Take note that the original Beyonder had no idea what the good and evil dichotomy was. They may be absolutely powerless there.
Well assume whatever cosmic power enables the angels to crossover to the Beyonder verse, enables them to continue having their usual power levels there.

Same way whatever cosmic power enables Flash to enter the Marvel U, enables him to use the SpeedForce, and whatever power enables Surfer to enter the DCU, enables the Power Cosmic.

We can call it the Broly Force.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well assume whatever cosmic power enables the angels to crossover to the Beyonder verse, enables them to continue having their usual power levels there.

Same way whatever cosmic power enables Flash to enter the Marvel U, enables him to use the SpeedForce, and whatever power enables Surfer to enter the DCU, enables the Power Cosmic.

We can call it the Broly Force.

Even at that wouldn't we assume that they held home field advantage considering what was written about them? I mean how they comprise the entirety of their space which made the Marvel multiverse appear to be like a drop of water in an ocean? Do we refer to any of that, or do we just skip all of that and return to Mikey and Luciano stomps becuz... If they are the God/s of their respective multiverse, why would we automatically assume that two foreign entities would have any power within that space? Hence why I originally said that there are too many what ifs to rely on a definite outcome. I would personally side with the guys that held home field advantage, and were the God/s of that home which could be seen as Gerai, or their throne.

Stoic
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Are you acting stupid on purpose?

You mean to suggest I made this thread against a verse of beyonders and sent the angels in powerless

So are you dumb or stupid?

Hmmm. Understand why I'm saying what I am saying before you begin with the usual taunts. Besides your opinion on the matter is compromised due to your extremely biased opinion. I mean who could take your opinion seriously when all you say is DC stomps in just about every thread?

Adam Grimes
Yeah, let's find excuses to go against the OP's intent so my side has a chance.

Stoic
DS, I misspelled Gerai. I meant Jireh. Sorry.

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Yeah, let's find excuses to go against the OP's intent so my side has a chance.

I read it the way that it was written. I saw both sides before answering. I then saw a shit ton of What Ifs appear. If you weren't so heavily biased towards one side, you may possibly see it too. But perhaps I'm being overly hopeful here.

MrMind
lol

Galan007
Even though it shouldn't have been needed, Broly already clarified that the Angels are meant to be operating at their full capacity here.

Now lets move on...

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Sin I AM
It's been awhile since I read it but didn't Starbrand and Ex Nihilo kill those same3?

Never stated nor implied to be the same three.

MrMind
lol no one cares about your opinion hulkster

Lucifer solos marvel, stay mad

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
Even though it shouldn't have been needed, Broly already clarified that the Angels are meant to be operating at their full capacity here.

Now lets move on...

Even if they are, they are still within a realm that is owned by beings that are considered the God/s of that realm. How can a definite answer be given? How do the Angels take full authority if any in that reality? What would happen if these Angels went to Mxy's dimension? Would they become the new Authority in that dimension?

Galan007
Originally posted by Galan007
Powerful as they were, the Ivory Kings were still just one species that lived inside the Beyond Realm, but they did not embody the realm itself. In fact, there are a multitude of different species who reside in the Beyond Realm nowadays:
https://i.imgur.com/czG7ZQS.jpg

Stoic
Your scan says that they are the embodiment of their realm. That they are many, while still being one. Or did I comprehend it wrong?

Galan007
The Beyond Corporation are one group who inhabits the Beyond -- they are the "many acting as a collective" that he mentioned in the scan.

But then he goes on to say that there are "many others like us. Many kinds." Meaning there are a multitude of different factions that reside in the Beyond Realm.

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by Galan007
Even though it shouldn't have been needed, Broly already clarified that the Angels are meant to be operating at their full capacity here.

Now lets move on...

thumb up

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
The Beyond Corporation are one group who inhabits the Beyond -- they are the "many acting as a collective" that he mentioned in the scan.

But then he goes on to say that there are "many others like us. Many kinds." Meaning there are a multitude of different factions that reside in the Beyond Realm.

Yes I get that part, and fully understand it. However it also states that they are one, and that they are the embodiment of that space. Am I correct, or is there something that I missed? Also there's my earlier question...

What would happen if these Angels went to Mxy's dimension? Would they take full authority over that dimension without question? And yes, they are going in full capacity.

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
Yes I get that part, and fully understand it. However it also states that ther are one, and that they are the embodiment of that space. Am I correct, or is there something that I missed? Also there's my earlier question...

What would happen if these Angels went to Mxy's dimension? Would they take full authority over that dimension without question? And yes, they are going in full capacity. He says they are AN embodiment of the Beyond; not THE embodiment. He then states there are many other kinds like them. As mentioned, this indicates multiple factions of entities that reside in the Beyond Realm... He even names some of these different groups:
-Beyonders
-Examiners
-Normalizers
-Gardeners
-Debasers


Not sure why you're bringing up Mxy here, but are you asking if I believe Michael/Lucifer are above him on the totem pole? If so, yes I do. Always have.

MrMind
and consider mxy can destroy and recreate the omniverse with a snap

that really put into perspective how insane lucifer and michael is

I don't think anyone in fiction other than the supreme beings can defeat the brothers together

Galan007
Michael/Lucifer embody the literal power and will of the The Presence himself. As such, The Presence really is the only being who should be superior to them, imo.

MrMind
Originally posted by Galan007
Michael/Lucifer embody the literal power and will of the The Presence himself. As such, The Presence really is the only being who should be superior to them, imo.

thumb up

Michael is described to be a "spark that expand forever" and an "ocean of power with no shore", you can't get more infinite than that

We have Lucifer in the Mansions of Silence, actually erasing infinite universes with his presence

We have Lucifer tanking a multiversal level blast at point blank range, 3 times, including when he was severely weakened

and many many other insane feats to name

DaltonChance
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Michael and Lucifer invade the Beyonder Verse

Can they destroy the Universe Angel Whis ftw

SquallX
Originally posted by DaltonChance
Angel Whis ftw

You seem to think Dragon Ball is that powerful.

Either Michael or Lucifer would wipe all of the DBS verse with their mere presence without even trying.

DaltonChance
Originally posted by SquallX
You seem to think Dragon Ball is that powerful.

Either Michael or Lucifer would wipe all of the DBS verse with their mere presence without even trying. The most I ever saw reading that comic was that the Demiurge could destroy a planet

DaltonChance
Beyonder is currently one HALF of a cosmic cube IIRC, unless you're talking about the BeyonderS that killed LT in which case I concede they'd even beat OMni king

SquallX
Originally posted by DaltonChance
The most I ever saw reading that comic was that the Demiurge could destroy a planet

Are you joking?

Michael after being captured and tortured, had his power syphon for untold times, to save the Multiverse, he had to be teleport outside of the Multiverse where he blew up, and Lucifer used the Demiurgos to shape a brand new Multiverse.

Michael posses the totality of the Presence itself. He is Multiversal.

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by SquallX
Are you joking?

Michael after being captured and tortured, had his power syphon for untold times, to save the Multiverse, he had to be teleport outside of the Multiverse where he blew up, and Lucifer used the Demiurgos to shape a brand new Multiverse.

Michael posses the totality of the Presence itself. He is Multiversal.

thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by MrMind
thumb up

Michael is described to be a "spark that expand forever" and an "ocean of power with no shore", you can't get more infinite than that thumb up

He's got these as well...

Raphael: "Michael is a vessel for the Divine Power. If he dies --if that vessel cracks-- the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left.":
http://i.imgur.com/1kUKe5j.jpg

Michael: "There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demiurgos. God's power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.":
http://i.imgur.com/Yr4a38e.jpg


Here we see Michael actually put that power to work...

"Examine your own substance. Or that of anything you see --stars, stones, water, air-- look close enough and you will see Michael's will working there."

"That is impossible! What you suggest, only God can do!"

"He is the Demiurge. God chose him as his second. Now, as God's mark fades and creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment. He writes God's name afresh on every atom of existence.":
http://i.imgur.com/biVHYbS.jpg


All of that being said, Lucifer effortlessly warped the totality of Michael's Demiurgic power --the literal/actual power of God-- into a physical creation of his own, and then seemingly recreated Michael himself:
https://i.imgur.com/I31P8EQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bGDEFZD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/C6mYkPU.jpg
...He was also completely unfazed by energies of that magnitude(ie. truly infinite energies) detonating in his face.

Also worth nothing that Lucifer casually whipped up and manipulated concepts like time itself, while creating his multiverse:
https://i.imgur.com/mVKoEdf.jpg

Originally posted by MrMind
We have Lucifer in the Mansions of Silence, actually erasing infinite universes with his presence

We have Lucifer tanking a multiversal level blast at point blank range, 3 times, including when he was severely weakened

and many many other insane feats to name It has always been telling to be that, in addition to the above, Dream stated that Lucifer was not only the most powerful Angel, but also the most powerful being in existence(second only to The Presence):
https://i.imgur.com/t8WC2Pa.jpg

And Mike Carey himself solidified this notion in the letters section of the series:
https://i.imgur.com/j3730wR.jpg
"Obviously Lucifer is the second most powerful being in the whole of creation."

BrolyBlack
Great posts.

If Lucifer could create Michael, why didn’t he recreate him after he died.


Also how do you get imgur to open those automatically without without it having To ask

SquallX

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
I read it the way that it was written. I saw both sides before answering. I then saw a shit ton of What Ifs appear. If you weren't so heavily biased towards one side, you may possibly see it too. But perhaps I'm being overly hopeful here. He's clarifying it for you by stating the stips clearly, and you still try to disregard that by saying that his opinion shouldn't be taken seriously.

You call me biased but I'm not the one trying to straight up ignore stips, OP's intent and logic just so I can say my side wins. Lol

Galan007

SquallX
Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like Lucifer is recreating Michael(or at least pulling him back together) here, no?:
https://i.imgur.com/ACs1iy0.jpg

I always felt like after Michael blew up, he put himself back together by own will.

I guess it depends on how you look at the scene.

I only say Michael put himself back together the same way he held the Multiverse together by his own sheer will and power after God left. Michael became everything after he returned to the Silver City and took over for God.

BrolyBlack
So is Michael still alive?

MrMind
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

He's got these as well...

Raphael: "Michael is a vessel for the Divine Power. If he dies --if that vessel cracks-- the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left.":
http://i.imgur.com/1kUKe5j.jpg

Michael: "There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demiurgos. God's power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.":
http://i.imgur.com/Yr4a38e.jpg


Here we see Michael actually put that power to work...

"Examine your own substance. Or that of anything you see --stars, stones, water, air-- look close enough and you will see Michael's will working there."

"That is impossible! What you suggest, only God can do!"

"He is the Demiurge. God chose him as his second. Now, as God's mark fades and creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment. He writes God's name afresh on every atom of existence.":
http://i.imgur.com/biVHYbS.jpg


All of that being said, Lucifer effortlessly warped the totality of Michael's Demiurgic power --the literal/actual power of God-- into a physical creation of his own, and then seemingly recreated Michael himself:
https://i.imgur.com/I31P8EQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bGDEFZD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/C6mYkPU.jpg
...He was also completely unfazed by energies of that magnitude(ie. truly infinite energies) detonating in his face.

Also worth nothing that Lucifer casually whipped up and manipulated concepts like time itself, while creating his multiverse:
https://i.imgur.com/mVKoEdf.jpg

It has always been telling to be that, in addition to the above, Dream stated that Lucifer was not only the most powerful Angel, but also the most powerful being in existence(second only to The Presence):
https://i.imgur.com/t8WC2Pa.jpg

And Mike Carey himself solidified this notion in the letters section of the series:
https://i.imgur.com/j3730wR.jpg
"Obviously Lucifer is the second most powerful being in the whole of creation."

thumb up

Michael oneshotted Corrigan's Spectre while holding back lol, consider that was spectre during his prime, make it extra impressive. he was stated to be infinitely more powerful than lords of order like nabu.

The demiurgic power could build and break all creation, His death would mean the destruction of all creation.
he could've ended the Lucifer's rebellion army with a simple gesture, which was a third of host angels, I remember it was nigh inifnite numbers.

Elaine used Michael's power to make a third creation alongside Presence and Lucifer's, also worth noting it doesn't matter if the terminology is "universe" or "multiverse", it's the same size as Presecen's original creation, consider it's the same infinite energy being used.

it was stated, Lucifer's own creation is the same size as the Presence's,

I think he's just too lazy to seperate and categorize it into different tiers of dimensions and universes, and even then it has countless higher dimensions that dwarfed the worlds

the fact is Lucifer manipulated all time and space in all dimensions of two separate totalities simultaneously

wiping an Eldritch being (of whom has leached off of multiple universes beyond DC, and not made by the Presence) out of existence with a thought, These eldritch beings are no doubt compared to dc higher level of races, I mean Silk Man alone is just insane....

I haven't even gotten into the scaling yet, endless who were implied to be inferior than the angel brothers, have performed multiversal/creation level feats many many times. Dream alone has created multiverse twice and he isn't even the most powerful endless.

It's even more impressive when we put things in perspective of how insane dc cosmology is, the 5th dimension, monitor realm, dark multiverse, super celestial beings like perpetua, how sphere of gods infinitely dwarf conventional third dimension infinite universes.etc etc too many to name

keep in mind top angels reside in heaven but they are not confined by dimension tiering, they can transcend the confinement of gods sphere. it's pretty much a given since lucifer has flown into overvoid and explored other creations (multiverses) made by super celestial beings.

and the brothers are on the highest totem pole of all that. I still believe that, some monitor supporters rank mandrakk and thought robot on a higher level, but I don't believe that, and there are a lot of evidence against meta beings scaling above the angels. I do however hope DC gets their hierarchy in complete order. Mostly the DeMatteis/Carey Christianity based Cosmology versus Snyder/Morrison Meta Cosmology. and we know DC absolutely acknowledge vertigo cosmology, just most recently we see snyder mentioning Presence still as the TOP DOG of dc. which was reassuring.

I'll use another example. Darkseid as a dying new god could collapse the dc prime multiverse with his body falling. because he's a higher dimensional being, but compare to toher big dogs, darkseid is as inconsequential as a dust. well... there is that one time spectre killed darkseid and presence revived him. claimin he's essential... but let's be honest how "essential" can new gods really be lol

doctor223
Beyonder blinks.He is beyond toaa.

Senor Cage
Currently, there really isn't anyone in the beyonderverse that can compete with the Angels.

wxyz
Beyonders win easily.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Stoic
I also find it funny how writers have made Angels more powerful than they are in the bible, which says that they can be as small as a pin head, or as great as a mountain.

Plus, pretty much all of those angels exist and have appeared in the MU

Diesldude

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by doctor223
Beyonder blinks.He is beyond toaa. is that you again mr master? laughing out loud

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