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Starmer is doing a good job in my opinion too.

Have yet to track down the article in question.


Am suspicious that alleged criticism of Israel is branded anti-semetic. The American left criticises Israel all the time here. And paradoxically, the right treats them like they can do no wrong.

Frankly, Israel deserves to be criticised, given its history of verified shady dealings.


Kidnapping a whistleblower out of England, for example.

Ok, found the allegedly anti-semetic bit.


A claim that US police learned the kneeling on back of head from Israeli services.



I have no idea if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if so.



I certainly don't see it in any way anti-semetic, as the target is the state of Israel, and nothing specifically jewish about the theory.

Originally posted by cdtm
Ok, found the allegedly anti-semetic bit.


A claim that US police learned the kneeling on back of head from Israeli services.



I have no idea if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if so.



I certainly don't see it in any way anti-semetic, as the target is the state of Israel, and nothing specifically jewish about the theory. what it does is create a link in peoples minds.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
what it does is create a link in peoples minds.


It might.



I think when we accuse people of racism, we imply intent, though. One can say seemingly racist things without being a racist.



I also believe you're building an argument that puts Israel as a state above criticism, which is quite a dangerous track imo.

Originally posted by cdtm
It might.



I think when we accuse people of racism, we imply intent, though. One can say seemingly racist things without being a racist.



I also believe you're building an argument that puts Israel as a state above criticism, which is quite a dangerous track imo. people often make errors and dont mean to appear racist. Racists also more often use this as an excuse when intentionally being racist.

Originally posted by cdtm



Kidnapping a whistleblower out of England, for example.

Italy. Presuming you're referring to Vanunu.

Originally posted by cdtm
It might.



I think when we accuse people of racism, we imply intent, though. One can say seemingly racist things without being a racist.



I also believe you're building an argument that puts Israel as a state above criticism, which is quite a dangerous track imo. Long-Bailey's sacking sparks focus on reporting of US-Israeli police links

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/25/long-baileys-sacking-sparks-renewed-focus-on-us-and-israeli-police-links?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy

Originally posted by cdtm
Ok, found the allegedly anti-semetic bit.


A claim that US police learned the kneeling on back of head from Israeli services.



I have no idea if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if so.



I certainly don't see it in any way anti-semetic, as the target is the state of Israel, and nothing specifically jewish about the theory.


I agree. There's many practicing Jews who stand up against Israel. So a distinction has to be made that Keir Starmer is clearly unwilling to.

That said I do get that Israel can be used as an tool/excuse to be Anti-Semetic, but that can't be used as an excuse to just shut down any criticism of the Israeli army and their treatment of the Palestinians.

With this sacking the Left is basically irrelevant now in U.K. politics. At least for the time being. So it's very much like U.S. politics.

Originally posted by cdtm
It might.



I think when we accuse people of racism, we imply intent, though. One can say seemingly racist things without being a racist.



I also believe you're building an argument that puts Israel as a state above criticism, which is quite a dangerous track imo.


No one thinks Israel is above criticism (they aren't perfect, no nation is) but people who're constantly bashing it (like the United Nations constantly does) are anti-semitic, imo. If you think that Israel has no right to exist as a nation then yes, you are anti-semitic I don't care what anybody says.


The Jewish people have a right to have their own damn country. God promised their ancestors that land and, as their descendants, the modern day jews have every right to it. Period. End of discussion.

It wouldn't surprise me if CDTM also thought that Linda Sarsour and Ilhan Omar weren't actually antisemitic either lol.

"Naw, they just hate Israel, they don't actually hate jewish people."

This is probably a good thing in terms of the precedent it will set (zero tolerance for anti-semitism), but there is something to be said about the way Long-Bailey has been essentially thrown under a bus to make a point.

Originally posted by DarthAloysius
This is probably a good thing in terms of the precedent it will set (zero tolerance for anti-semitism), but there is something to be said about the way Long-Bailey has been essentially thrown under a bus to make a point. Agreed.

The problem with kicking the anti-Semites out the Labour Party is you won't have anyone left.

I don't see the tweet that Rebecca Long Bailey shared as anti-semitism for multiple reasons.

I see this as a Labour internal power struggle, Starmer used the first opportunity he had to sack his main rival, weaken the left arm of the party and to firmly take control of it. I see this as a sign of establishment interest asserting itself and firmly controlling both main parties again now. I think we can view it as a return of Blairite New Labour, which in fact was basically just a continuation of Thatcherism "with a human face".

I'm relatively sure that Starmer is going to win the Prime Minister spot at some point, because he is perfectly in line with establishment interest, the UK press will give him a fair shot, but it won't fundamentally change the trajectory of exploitation the British people have suffered under for 40 year.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
The problem with kicking the anti-Semites out the Labour Party is you won't have anyone left. Originally posted by Artol
I don't see the tweet that Rebecca Long Bailey shared as anti-semitism for multiple reasons.

I see this as a Labour internal power struggle, Starmer used the first opportunity he had to sack his main rival, weaken the left arm of the party and to firmly take control of it. I see this as a sign of establishment interest asserting itself and firmly controlling both main parties again now. I think we can view it as a return of Blairite New Labour, which in fact was basically just a continuation of Thatcherism "with a human face".

I'm relatively sure that Starmer is going to win the Prime Minister spot at some point, because he is perfectly in line with establishment interest, the UK press will give him a fair shot, but it won't fundamentally change the trajectory of exploitation the British people have suffered under for 40 year. Possible true re: power consolidation. I see it as antisemitic too though. Let's agree to disagree on that bit.