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I used to read a lot of anti Islam stuff here, to be honest this is greatly reduced over the last year as a focus applied more on the November Election.

People say Saudi Arabians are bad because for religious reasons they don't teach Evolution and the Big bang, they have the death penalty, they are anti feminism, anti drugs and alcohol. They believe strongly in punitive sentences, are 100% pto life and at the same time strongly in favour of the family unit. KSA believes I technology and is about to have some non dry areas, so rather than dry (no alcohol states) in the us it will have wet states where people can drink. Conversely KSA has a French style health system. Which is very efficient.

I have noticed a lot of posters advocating many of these views.

I will be honest apart from Kurdish missiles on Riyadh, one detonating near my compound, I never felt safer anywhere.

Given, many posters views, Islam aside would they be happier if the west became more like KSA and religious conservatism permeated layers of society?

I think that religious freedom is a great good of modern democracies. Therefore I do not think that any religion should be elevated above any other, and they should not directly influence law to the exclusion of others. I do think Religion has value for many to give them a sense of morality, which of course then does inform laws, schools and politics in an indirect manner.

Originally posted by Artol
I think that religious freedom is a great good of modern democracies. Therefore I do not think that any religion should be elevated above any other, and they should not directly influence law to the exclusion of others. I do think Religion has value for many to give them a sense of morality, which of course then does inform laws, schools and politics in an indirect manner. Do you believe the right to choose is anti monotheistic and anti Abrahams as most prolifers seem Religious. What are you thoughts on this sort of religious idea influencing common law? As for classes, several posters claim that Evolution has no evidence and should not be taught, yet they seem in favour of the Bible as fact. Does this seem logical to you?

I'm very secular, I've stated my view that the free and easy access to abortion is an important right to me before, and I believe Evolution should be taught in school. Of course we always have to make trade offs with all rights, in that case I believe that the right of children to a comprehensive, science based education far outweighs the rights of Religions to have their contradictory beliefs taught in school.

Originally posted by Artol
I'm very secular, I've stated my view that the free and easy access to abortion is an important right to me before, and I believe Evolution should be taught in school. Of course we always have to make trade offs with all rights, in that case I believe that the right of children to a comprehensive, science based education far outweighs the rights of Religions to have their contradictory beliefs taught in school. i agree with you 100% do you find it strange the internet through Social media and YouTube has caused many to disregard experts and propagate what we're fringe beliefs.

Have fringe beliefs actually increased? It seems like they may just be more visible now. Of course it has become easier to be part of a sub-culture and community through the internet, at the same time it's also gotten a lot easier to find correct information. I think one thing that has happened is that there's been a proliferation of authorities. In the 60s everyone watched one TV program, and everyone got more or less the same story. That has positives and negatives though.

Originally posted by Artol
Have fringe beliefs actually increased? It seems like they may just be more visible now. Of course it has become easier to be part of a sub-culture and community through the internet, at the same time it's also gotten a lot easier to find correct information. I think one thing that has happened is that there's been a proliferation of authorities. In the 60s everyone watched one TV program, and everyone got more or less the same story. That has positives and negatives though. Certainly more visible, increased I think so, yes, although I have no hard evidence to support this. Anti Vaxxers, Covid caused by 5g, UFO's, the Occult, you only have to look at Trumps fanbase.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Certainly more visible, increased I think so, yes, although I have no hard evidence to support this. Anti Vaxxers, Covid caused by 5g, UFO's, the Occult, you only have to look at Trumps fanbase.

Yeah, I mean all of those things did exist in the past as well though. Except for 5G conspiracies, obviously. I do think that maybe more than the Internet it is also that the authority figures have lost a lot of respect, and I would partly blame neoliberalism for that. When things were going better for more people economically, and they weren't exploited to the same degree more people are willing to trust the mainstream narrative, I would suspect.

Originally posted by Artol
Yeah, I mean all of those things did exist in the past as well though. Except for 5G conspiracies, obviously. I do think that maybe more than the Internet it is also that the authority figures have lost a lot of respect, and I would partly blame neoliberalism for that. When things were going better for more people economically, and they weren't exploited to the same degree more people are willing to trust the mainstream narrative, I would suspect. neo libs and neo cons two sides of the same coin. I think the rightists saw an opportunity to consolidate with a not very bright often religious base world wide and the conspiracy theories of Alex Jones etc became part of it. I also think that base thinks along the lines of, I may have done shit at school, have a shit job, be involuntarily celibate etc. But at least I'm not a paddy, spic, mick, paki, ****** etc.

Religion has no place in Government.

A secular society is a free society.

Laws: I think The Ten Commandments are a near perfect basis for the foundation of laws.

Don't worship idols (money, celebrities, fame, etc.). This combines 1 & 2.

Don't curse (potty mouth) or proclaim yourself a person of faith for monetary gains or fame.

Take a day to rest.

Be respectful to your elders.

Don't kill.

Don't cheat on your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend.

Don't steal.

Don't lie in court (or in general).

Don't be jealous of another person's property, spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend.


Schools: If you go to a private, religious school then religion will be part of the curriculum. I think it should be an elective in public schools.



Politics/government: I don't think a government should force a single, particular religion upon the population. Thing US Constitution/First Amendment. As for the political individual, I believe that each person needs to vote their conscience whether it be based on the "laws" of man or laws of "God". But when they run for office they should be upfront with their beliefs.

Side note: I don't think science should include religion and vice versa. The scientific method needs to be analytical and based on what can be proved with observation and numbers, imo. I do think science teachers should be able to mention as an aside religious theories to show a contrast between the two.

Religion should be kept peripheral, because too often it devolves into religionism, an abuse of power; and history attests how destructive this egoistic distortion of religion can be.

religion shouldn't be used as any kind of merit token in politics and government, it's just a cheap and shitty way to debate and explain stuff

i don't care if individually the president, prime minister or anybody derives his ideas from Bible, Quran, Harry Potter or any holy book they believe in

but they should be able to demonstrate their views and ideas without "religion teaches XYZ", since it's cheap, empty shit without any value; if you can't deconstruct your ideas and explain why they're good for the government without refering to outside source, you just suck; everything government does must be able to "survive on its own" with logic, so with that, religion has no place in government

I believe religion is as much a part of identity as gender, culture, or idealogy. Trying to separate out religious conviction from social life is a fools errand.

It should be as far removed as possible from the process, but so long as politicians and their constituents remain religious, it's inevitable that religion will influence policy.

If religious doctrine is to be taught in schools, it should be confined to elective classes, and bleed-over into other subjects should be discouraged. I don't think private schools should be an exception, either.

Saudi Arabians, etc. nobody else is inherently bad.

*Islam* is bad.

Christianity too. Be nice if these motherf*ckers would embrace Jainism if they have to be in a cult.

Our most popular religions are toxic as f*ck. But strangely enough it's more taboo to talk about the most toxic and awful one. Then again that is a discussion for another time!

Anyways religion has no place in law or politics or public schools.