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Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Delirium, Despair enter the Marvel universe. Where would you place them tier wise using the following as an example :

S Tier : Living Tribunal
A Tier : Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion
B Tier : Order, Chaos, Love Hate
C Tier : Galactus, Elite Celestials (Tiamut, Exitar, etc..), Elite Watchers (forgot their names )
D Tier : High End Skyfathers (Odin, Thor with Odinforce, etc..), average Celestials

IMHO -
S Tier : Death, Destiny
A Tier : Desire, Dream, Destruction
B Tier : Delirium, Despair

Despair could be moved up to A Tier, I'm undecided.

Tiering is good. Except Destiny is lacking in feats by himself.

Despair and Desire are a pair, but I would probably place them all in A-Tier with the ability to pull to S-tier feats under the right circumstances.

Can current LT even be considered S tier anymore?

Originally posted by SquallX
Can current LT even be considered S tier anymore?
It's weird because according to the Ultimates Multi-Eternity is greater than the Living Tribunal who in turn is greater than individual Eternities.

no endless are all s tier, each one of them is individually above living tribunal, who is a peer to spectre

endless are above spectre

Originally posted by Astner
Despair and Desire are a pair, but I would probably place them all in A-Tier with the ability to pull to S-tier feats under the right circumstances.
Death is DEFINITELY S Tier. She has the power to destroy another Abstract on the level of the Endless. Desire was trying to pick a fight with Dream and Death told him/her to stop or she'd end his/her existence. Apparently it wasn't an ideal threat because Desire sh|t his/her pants and stopped immediately.

IMHO, Death is by far the most powerful of the Endless (which is saying a lot seeing as how a portion of Dream's power was capable of creating multiple entire universes/dimensions).

Dream created an entire new creation in overture just recently.

And Daniel did the same thing

Originally posted by abhilegend
Dream created an entire new creation in overture just recently.
Overture concluded five years ago.

That's recently for Endless.

S Tier: Destruction, Death and Destiny
A Tier: Dream and Desire
B Tier: Despair and Delirium

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except Destiny is lacking in feats by himself.
The most important feat he has IMHO, is when he told Dream to back down when he threatened to fight Desire (Dream was legit out for blood because he hates Desire with passion). Dream even stated that he would have attacked Desire if Destiny didn't intervene.

Also worth noting in this issue where all this happened, Desire has no fear of Dream and constantly provokes him into a fight. In fact, Desire stated outright that it could manipulate Dream into wanting something he didn't want (He was offered a grape by Death and he said he didn't want one. Desire told him it could MAKE him want that grape.).

they are all as powerful as the story needs, but below Michael and Lucifer. In my opinion they are all a/b tier.

But battle is not what the Endless are about.

I'd probably put Destruction in the S Tier as well, by virtue of the concept that he embodies. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd probably put Destruction in the S Tier as well, by virtue of the concept that he embodies. /shrug But they are literally one aspect ponies.

They control their opposites too iirc.

Originally posted by wxyz
They control their opposites too iirc. Well they can change delirium was delight etc. But basically, they are embodied ideas and Something like the Living Tribunal or Lucifer controls concepts.

LT is not on the level of Endless or Lucifer

Originally posted by MrMind
LT is not on the level of Endless or Lucifer
The Endless aren't that impressive. Most of their "power" comes from scaling with the main DC continuity. After all, Gaiman only worked with a universe, not alternate time-lines or anything like that. And it's not like the Endless have particularly impressive feats in the main series.

Originally posted by Astner
The Endless aren't that impressive. Most of their "power" comes from scaling with the main DC continuity. After all, Gaiman only worked with a universe, not alternate time-lines or anything like that. And it's not like the Endless have particularly impressive feats in the main series.
You're talking like LT isn't mostly about scaling.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're talking like LT isn't mostly about scaling.
That's true as well. The only real multiversal feat I've seen is when he held the two Amalgam Brothers in the palm of his hand who (according to the handbooks) where the embodiments of megaverses.

But that feat was used to inflate him to the point that every subsequent showing turned out to be some form of PIS or jobbing, because the standard that we had set for him in terms of feats was so far above the standard of the writers.

That said, Death of the Endlessless seems very similar in nature to Marvel's Death. The only difference seems to be that Death of the Endless will reap her siblings at the end of time, and as far as I know Marvel's Abstract Beings aren't subject to Death in the same sense.

Originally posted by Astner
That said, Death of the Endlessless seems very similar in nature to Marvel's Death. The only difference seems to be that Death of the Endless will reap her siblings at the end of time, and as far as I know Marvel's Abstract Beings aren't subject to Death in the same sense.
Endless Death is FAR above Marvel Death. She doesn't have to wait till the end of time to kill/reap her siblings. She can destroy an abstract whenever she wants. Desire, at LEAST a universal abstract, sh|t his/her pants when Death threatened it with annihilation.

Give me an example of Marvel Death putting the fear of God into another abstract like that.

lol let me know when LT can recreate multiverse/omniverse like daniel and morpheus did, twice

https://i.ibb.co/0j8T4LB/7180689-0855706908-70346.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/JBRdg6m/7180690-2785720051-70346.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/71v16kB/7180691-5091202267-70162.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Endless Death is FAR above Marvel Death. She doesn't have to wait till the end of time to kill/reap her siblings. She can destroy an abstract whenever she wants. Desire, at LEAST a universal abstract, sh|t his/her pants when Death threatened it with annihilation.
Gaiman only worked with a universe. That's why he never mentioned a multiverse. So they would be universal, unless you're going with the main continuity's take on them.

As for threats, they're not feats. We don't know what it would take for Death to kill Desire or even if she is capable of it under normal circumstances.

But she seems to serve the same function as Marvel's Death, that's why I assume they're similar in power. Because they've not done enough to distinguish themselves in relation to one another.

Originally posted by MrMind
https://i.ibb.co/71v16kB/7180691-5091202267-70162.jpg
This isn't from the same comic as the other scans, and it specifically says universe.

Originally posted by Astner
That's true as well. The only real multiversal feat I've seen is when he held the two Amalgam Brothers in the palm of his hand who (according to the handbooks) where the embodiments of megaverses.

That was a pretty inconsequential comic tie in to an animated show which pretty no writer has ever referenced. It might as well be non canon.

Exactly. Most of his feats are from Starlin who revealed him as a universal abstract.

Marvel death has too many low showings to consider at that level.

Originally posted by Astner
Gaiman only worked with a universe. That's why he never mentioned a multiverse. So they would be universal, unless you're going with the main continuity's take on them.

As for threats, they're not feats. We don't know what it would take for Death to kill Desire or even if she is capable of it under normal circumstances.

But she seems to serve the same function as Marvel's Death, that's why I assume they're similar in power. Because they've not done enough to distinguish themselves in relation to one another.


This isn't from the same comic as the other scans, and it specifically says universe.


yes sherlock, dream did it in two instances, like i mentioned, try reading my post bud

Originally posted by MrMind
lol let me know when LT can recreate multiverse/omniverse like daniel and morpheus did, twice



once morpheus did it in overture

once daniel did it in the new dreaming book

and it's absolutely a multiverse are you crazy....

your lowballing is so fukin weird, it's like you are repeating the talking point of typical dc lowballer like this guy deagonx

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/dc-comics-feats-cosmology-and-cosmic-hierarchy-thread.313227/page-198

comicvine would suit you but not here dude

You can call it whatever you want, but I'm going to refer to it the way the comics do.

https://i.imgur.com/A17uofyl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uImIGZql.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ig7as9zl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gw4wl0Ul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ctZgcS6l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wC6UUdPl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L4EiGAVl.jpg

Originally posted by Astner
The Endless aren't that impressive. Most of their "power" comes from scaling with the main DC continuity. After all, Gaiman only worked with a universe, not alternate time-lines or anything like that. And it's not like the Endless have particularly impressive feats in the main series. agreed, the stories they are in are not those kind of stories. Dream has said before Lucifer is much more powerful than him and is shit scared of Lucifer.

Originally posted by Astner
As for threats, they're not feats. We don't know what it would take for Death to kill Desire or even if she is capable of it under normal circumstances.

But she seems to serve the same function as Marvel's Death, that's why I assume they're similar in power. Because they've not done enough to distinguish themselves in relation to one another.

Show me scans of Marvel Death getting another abstract so scared it would destroy it that it backed down.

Death couldn't even scare random witches of Eternity who punted her ass away like nothing.

Marvel Death is a joke.

Thanos without the heart or IG trumps any one of the useless Endless. Such stupid characters.

Shut up quanchi

Originally posted by zopzop
Endless Death is FAR above Marvel Death. She doesn't have to wait till the end of time to kill/reap her siblings. She can destroy an abstract whenever she wants. Desire, at LEAST a universal abstract, sh|t his/her pants when Death threatened it with annihilation.

Give me an example of Marvel Death putting the fear of God into another abstract like that.

I don't see what the big deal about making a universal entity scared, especially if we are talking about multiversal entities here.

But if we are talking about taking out universal level creatures....616 death with a WAVEof a hand oneshotted every single MAO on the cancerverse, a fraction of that power bled out into the 616 verse and atomized the GE, the GE took on two primordial gods, over a dozen Celestials including Arishem, an elite celestial who was one of two to split the Early universe into a multiverse and would fodderize a universal entity and a well fed Galan, who was stronger than nearly everyone there put together at that point. The GE handled them all at the same time and was winning, the MAOs were far stronger


This is just 616 death that oneshotted every single one of them, an infinitesimal aspect of the actual thing



Threatening an "at least universal" abstract is nothing, a celestial did that to kubik, lol


As far as fighting another abstract goes, the tribunal would stomp then upside the head of they acted away from their "function" anyway, so it's not like they can just pick fights anyhow

Originally posted by Genii96
I don't see what the big deal about making a universal entity scared, especially if we are talking about multiversal entities here.

But if we are talking about taking out universal level creatures....616 death with a WAVEof a hand oneshotted every single MAO on the cancerverse, a fraction of that power bled out into the 616 verse and atomized the GE, the GE took on two primordial gods, over a dozen Celestials including Arishem, an elite celestial who was one of two to split the Early universe into a multiverse and would fodderize a universal entity and a well fed Galan, who was stronger than nearly everyone there put together at that point. The GE handled them all at the same time and was winning, the MAOs were far stronger


This is just 616 death that oneshotted every single one of them, an infinitesimal aspect of the actual thing
Need I remind you, the MAOs already beat/killed Death in their universe that's why they needed to bring 616 Death there to stop them.




The Celestials threatening Kubik is such a low showing for Kubik it's not even funny. We've already seen entire HOSTS of Celestials humiliated by a single Cosmic Cube :
https://i.postimg.cc/CRHDyPdX/4870039-celestial-engine.png

Originally posted by Astner
You can call it whatever you want, but I'm going to refer to it the way the comics do.




The Dreaming contains even the dreams of those in space beyond space

https://i.ibb.co/RzHvSgJ/Dreaming1.png





when Lucifer adapts his perception to the Overvoid, he witnessed Creations rise and fall,

https://i.ibb.co/VSvW5vJ/Overvoid-Creations1.png
https://i.ibb.co/2j1LrKR/Overvoid-Creations2.png





he finally find out all the Creations take up, essentially, none of the Overvoid

https://i.ibb.co/3yGncLw/Overvoid-Creations3.png





which coincide with what snyder said, infinite creationes in dc omniverse

https://i.ibb.co/W6D4Vr3/Greater-Omniverse.png

Originally posted by Astner
You can call it whatever you want, but I'm going to refer to it the way the comics do.



The interplay of Night and Time made all versions of Creation possible

https://i.ibb.co/fpHgkRH/DCNight-Time.png


Night and Time are the parents of the Endless, and it is their interplay that makes all versions of Creation possible. This is one of many instances in which knowledge of greater context is needed to accurately interpret the text. In the context of this story, as well as in all of Gaiman's work and most Vertigo titles, "universe" is used for its less physics-based meaning: the totality of all Creation.
1.
This is shown by Desire's statement about the afterlife, eternity, and reality as he sees it, will be done

https://i.ibb.co/YZFJdqp/ogyegly.png


2.
the location of the City of the Stars, City of the Stars exists in the far realms, above the real

https://i.ibb.co/7VD4WcD/SEUaHyX.jpg


Now we must examine exactly how "endless" the Endless are. It is displayed more than once that they are explicitly not bound to one Creation. When we see Dream, or Destiny, or Death, we are only looking at one point of view. Furthermore, Destiny is drawn transcending Creation on the Multiverse Map.

It is not possible to escape Death even by escaping the death of your entire Creation into the Overvoid. More than that, Death operates in all Creations within the Greater Omniverse

https://i.ibb.co/rGrpL6r/Endless-Overvoid.png


For example, the same Death naturally appeared in Lucifer's Creation

https://i.ibb.co/QkbWGWF/Death-Lucifer.png

There is nothing that exists that is not in Destiny's book

https://i.ibb.co/tBgDZSP/Destiny-Book1.png

To Destiny, all stories are simply illusions

https://i.ibb.co/W3WDWmZ/Destiny-Illusion.png

Originally posted by MrMind
It is not possible to escape Death even by escaping the death of your entire Creation into the Overvoid. More than that, Death operates in all Creations within the Greater Omniverse

https://i.ibb.co/rGrpL6r/Endless-Overvoid.png


For example, the same Death naturally appeared in Lucifer's Creation

https://i.ibb.co/QkbWGWF/Death-Lucifer.png
Those Death scans are crazy. She's legit omnipresent! Holy sh|t was I wrong about the Endless.

the endless is above current marvel cosmology

only first farement and multi-eternity in current marvel rival them

The Silken man reminds me so much of Gaiman's description of the thing the girl becomes in the Ocean at the end of the Lane.

Death also since her creation took her first vacation when Luthor merge with the Zone Child and send out this wave that effected all creation into peacefully coexist.

That was the first time we saw Death unable to do her job.

The Endless are stupid and weak.