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Fit Thor with Stormbreaker axe and Wonder Woman with her sword and braces

1. Steppenwolf
2. Aquaman & Steppenwolf
3. Faora (no atmosphere weakness)
4. Nam ek (no atmosphere weakness)
5. Zod (in suit no weakness)
6. Superman (No flight)
7. Superman (with flight. Wonder Woman gets flight)
8. Doomsday (no adapting)
9. Doomaday (with adapting)

8 since wonderwomen gets flight

Is this JL superman? They could very well stop there

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Is this JL superman? They could very well stop there The Superman that fought doomsday

Originally posted by HumbleServant
The Superman that fought doomsday


Nah, they would **** his world up. Stop at Doomsday unless Thor can get a clear head shot

They don't make it past 1 lol

Steppenwolf is honestly garbage tier

They stop at Zod or Superman.

Clear as a bell.

Explain how they handle Superman's speed.

Sandwich

Originally posted by Psychotron
Explain how they handle Superman's speed.


By him not being any faster than Wonder Woman in BVS and the fact that he is the 2nd worst fighter in all of cinema right behind Zod who is the worst fighter/warrior ever made

Ah, ok. We're gonna strip Superman of feats so the other guys have a chance.

From the thread starter Originally posted by HumbleServant
The Superman that fought doomsday

There's really no difference between BvS Superman and JL Superman powerset-wise. Kryptonians have had super speed since MoS.

Levels are a thing.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
By him not being any faster than Wonder Woman Legit lol @ this bs

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Legit lol @ this bs

Ok, using only BvS and earlier movies, prove that Superman is faster.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
By him not being any faster than Wonder Woman in BVS and the fact that he is the 2nd worst fighter in all of cinema right behind Zod who is the worst fighter/warrior ever made

He flew from the artic ocean to save Lois in under 2 seconds.

You are high on crack as usual

More like they're on cope.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ok, using only BvS and earlier movies, prove that Superman is faster. Below.

Now, prove you aren't a literal retard.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
He flew from the artic ocean to save Lois in under 2 seconds.

You are high on crack as usual

I'm not the one that can't tell the difference between flight speed and reaction speed.

I hear Diana is super underpowered in this film. Yeah they might stop at Zod

Zod isn't beating Stormbreaker Thor. Him and Clark have zero fighting skills to speak of.

And Clark showed zero reaction feats as of bvs to say he was anywhere close to JL levels.

I cope just fine. If this was JL superman I have zero problem admitting he would solo Thor, WW and a handful of Avengers as well.

Yall do know its ok for Clark to lose every once in awhile. Yall are so obsessed with him always winning and being the best at everything its a little creepy

I think after JL, it's safe to say that Superman is comfortably faster than both Thor and WW.

Not sure about Zod or Doomsday. Outside of the occasional bullrush, I don't recall them displaying too much superspeed. It's questionable whether they can maintain that kind of speed when executing complicated maneuvers.

One thing I'd like to point out though is that energy attacks seem to have some degree of effectiveness on Superman (and by extension, Zod).

He was knocked down and clearly hurt by the blast from Zod's ship. He was staggered back and hurt by Cyborg's blast. He had to block and brace himself against Doomsday's AOE's.

Granted, none of them left lasting damage, but all of them still caused him to lose a step or two. He wasn't just able to ignore and walk through them.

Which brings us to Thor's lightning attacks and those AOE's that WW can do with her bracelets. Especially if Thor cloaks himself with lightning the way he did in Ragnarok.

I don't think their energy attacks are enough to kill either Superman or Zod, but they should be enough to stagger them and stop them from moving continuously in super speed, enough that Thor and WW can eventually start landing hits with either axe or sword.

And while Zod and Superman are pretty strong, Thor and WW are tough enough that they should be able to take a number of hits before going down. On the other hand, a single hit from Diana's sword or Stormbreaker should be enough to severely injure any of the kryptonians.

It's a tough fight, but I do think Thor and Diana have a better chance at coming out of that fight alive than the kryptonians. In the end, the Kryptonians are pure brawlers who don't have as much skill or tactical options as Thor and WW.

This isn't JL Superman though, the thread starter said it's the Superman that fought Doomsday. IOW, BvS Superman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This isn't JL Superman though, the thread starter said it's the Superman that fought Doomsday. IOW, BvS Superman.

Then we have two options:

1. We assume that Superman got an upgrade after being resurrected, which means this Superman is weaker and slower than JL Superman, or

2. We assume that Superman's powers have always been constant across the multiple movies, in which case he's still susceptible to being KO'd by a falling oil rig.


Either way, Thor and WW still have good chance of clearing.

Imp didn't let us assume Cap's abilities remained the same in the old "Captain America, the first Avenger" thread. he stated since a specific version was named, we could only use feats from that movie.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Imp didn't let us assume Cap's abilities remained the same in the old "Captain America, the first Avenger" thread. he stated since a specific version was named, we could only use feats from that movie.

Ok, good to know. That means this Superman is limited to superspeed bullrushes.

Originally posted by FrothByte


2. We assume that Superman's powers have always been constant across the multiple movies, in which case he's still susceptible to being KO'd by a falling oil rig.



Superman had better durability feats in the same movie. When will you stop low-balling?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ok, using only BvS and earlier movies, prove that Superman is faster.

So if Thor has greater strength feats in a latter movie without any external or plot written upgrades then does that mean he was weaker in the earlier movie by writer's intent or just fiction inconsistency?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then we have two options:

1. We assume that Superman got an upgrade after being resurrected, which means this Superman is weaker and slower than JL Superman, or

2. We assume that Superman's powers have always been constant across the multiple movies, in which case he's still susceptible to being KO'd by a falling oil rig.


Either way, Thor and WW still have good chance of clearing.

Or 3. Assume fiction inconsistency. The thing where characters and objects have contradictory high and low showings.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Superman had better durability feats in the same movie. When will you stop low-balling?

If you say so.

I do.

Originally posted by h1a8
So if Thor has greater strength feats in a latter movie without any external or plot written upgrades then does that mean he was weaker in the earlier movie by writer's intent or just fiction inconsistency?

Mod ruling, if a specific version of a character is mentioned, then only feats from that version can be used.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Imp didn't let us assume Cap's abilities remained the same in the old "Captain America, the first Avenger" thread. he stated since a specific version was named, we could only use feats from that movie. There is no specific version of Superman mentioned in the OP. And per you, threads can't be edited or changed a day after it was created.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I think after JL, it's safe to say that Superman is comfortably faster than both Thor and WW.

Not sure about Zod or Doomsday. Outside of the occasional bullrush, I don't recall them displaying too much superspeed. It's questionable whether they can maintain that kind of speed when executing complicated maneuvers.

One thing I'd like to point out though is that energy attacks seem to have some degree of effectiveness on Superman (and by extension, Zod).

He was knocked down and clearly hurt by the blast from Zod's ship. He was staggered back and hurt by Cyborg's blast. He had to block and brace himself against Doomsday's AOE's.

Granted, none of them left lasting damage, but all of them still caused him to lose a step or two. He wasn't just able to ignore and walk through them.

Which brings us to Thor's lightning attacks and those AOE's that WW can do with her bracelets. Especially if Thor cloaks himself with lightning the way he did in Ragnarok.

I don't think their energy attacks are enough to kill either Superman or Zod, but they should be enough to stagger them and stop them from moving continuously in super speed, enough that Thor and WW can eventually start landing hits with either axe or sword.

And while Zod and Superman are pretty strong, Thor and WW are tough enough that they should be able to take a number of hits before going down. On the other hand, a single hit from Diana's sword or Stormbreaker should be enough to severely injure any of the kryptonians.

It's a tough fight, but I do think Thor and Diana have a better chance at coming out of that fight alive than the kryptonians. In the end, the Kryptonians are pure brawlers who don't have as much skill or tactical options as Thor and WW.

Your are forgetting that both would be statues to Superman. So all that other stuff is irrelevant (although I disagree that the cloak lightning would even bother Superman).

ShadowFyre asked the thread starter which version of Superman and the thread starter specified the one that fought Doomsday. IOW, BvS Superman.

It's pretty funny that Thor needs Stormbreaker, 7 movies worth of feats and Wonder Woman to have a chance to beat Superman restricted to 1/3 of his feats.

Not a good look for Thor fans.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is no specific version of Superman mentioned in the OP. And per you, threads can't be edited or changed a day after it was created.



Your are forgetting that both would be statues to Superman. So all that other stuff is irrelevant (although I disagree that the cloak lightning would even bother Superman).

Doesn’t matter how fast Superman is moving, he still needs to enter Thor's lightning cloak in order to hit him. And if Cyborg's blast can stagger Superman, you can bet he isn't just walking through Thor's lightning cloak. At the very least it should also stagger him.

Also, it should be noted that Superman wasn't moving faster than the electricity/lightning surrounding Flash when they fought in slow-mo.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Zod isn't beating Stormbreaker Thor. Him and Clark have zero fighting skills to speak of.

And Clark showed zero reaction feats as of bvs to say he was anywhere close to JL levels.

I cope just fine. If this was JL superman I have zero problem admitting he would solo Thor, WW and a handful of Avengers as well.

Yall do know its ok for Clark to lose every once in awhile. Yall are so obsessed with him always winning and being the best at everything its a little creepy

Retard Alert, he grabbed a batman grenade launched at him. Thats no reaction speed?

Are you a retard?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Doesn’t matter how fast Superman is moving, he still needs to enter Thor's lightning cloak in order to hit him. And if Cyborg's blast can stagger Superman, you can bet he isn't just walking through Thor's lightning cloak. At the very least it should also stagger him.

Also, it should be noted that Superman wasn't moving faster than the electricity/lightning surrounding Flash when they fought in slow-mo.

Thor's lightning cloak as been effective against mooks only. Cyborg's blast only annoyed Superman anyway.

Originally posted by Silent Master
ShadowFyre asked the thread starter which version of Superman and the thread starter specified the one that fought Doomsday. IOW, BvS Superman.

Superman was specified in the OP. That means all movies feats.
The OP can't change his mind later and use a different version just because someone ask. You should know this. You argued against changing the stips to the thread after the allowed time many times. Now you want to be a hypocrite?

Per the rules, the stips can be updated/clarified within the first several posts



Which the thread starter did, he specified this is the Superman that fought Doomsday. IE BvS Superman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Per the rules, the stips can be updated/clarified within the first several posts



Which the thread starter did, he specified this is the Superman that fought Doomsday. IE BvS Superman.

What's a few? He changed his mind a day later.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it doesn't. The fact that it staggered Superman is a better feat than the lightning.

You can't use an argument to argue for the same argument. That's circular logic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You can't use an argument to argue for the same argument. That's circular logic. What are you getting at with this line of reasoning?

Ya see! You're not actually making any progress! In order to get one must give.

Originally posted by h1a8
What's a few? He changed his mind a day later.

The 4th post in the thread is the thread starter clarifying which Superman.

Originally posted by FrothByte


Based on what? Zod's ship blast pushed back Superman, a being that can casually tow an icebreaker and survive a nuke. Cyborg mildly annoyed him, just look at his expression. Thor's lightning cloak has hurt nobody of note, so to say that it hurt Superman to the point of preventing him from attacking is a bit of a reach.

Superman withstood and overpowered the energy beam of the World Engine, which was flattening skyscrapers on the other side of the planet, and he was depowered when this happened. It's up to you to prove that Thor's lightning cloak is stronger than that.

Also, Wonder Woman is in the fight. Is Thor going to risk hurting an ally with an AoE attack? Seems a bit out of character to me. He didn't do that in IW or Endgame.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The 4th post in the thread is the thread starter clarifying which Superman.

A "few" is not well defined. The mod also talked about random intervals of time (a day later).

Do .. better

Originally posted by FrothByte
You can't use an argument to argue for the same argument. That's circular logic. How so? If IM developed a new energy blast and hurt Thor with it then how come it's not a feat for IM? Why would it be circular? Oh I see. Energy and physical strikes are not related. Got you.

Superman tanked HV blasts in which lesser HV has sliced an I-beam in one swipe. According to Newton's law of heating (cooling). The temperature of the HV was many times higher than that of melting structural steel.

Even if Superman didn't have any feats against energy then we can't say how powerful Zod's ship blasts or Cyborg blasts are just because they have no other feats. They both come from technology far above humans. And humans have some plucking powerful energy blasts.

I don't understand why we are playing is bvs vs Justice League thing. We all know Superman was brand new at this so it would make sense for him to get more powerful throughout the movies literally like every other f****** superhero. Superman is going to get stronger and push his limits. Him, Diana, and Doomsday were all operating at what seemed equal speeds in BVS. And then he statues her in JL. A clear upgrade

I guess not using JL Superman is more fair.
I'm ok with it as long as everyone else is.

The debate is whether we can scale Steppenwolf to WW speed or not. In other words, Did WW fail to use her speed on Steppenwolf or does Steppenwolf possess comparable speed to WW? The answer to that question determines ls how far the two make it.

I dont care either. But JL Superman decimates them. Here is a quick list of characters faster than him in movies off the top of my head who utilize pure speed

Other Supermen
Flashes
Armor Mothra
Fox Quicksilver

Thats pretty much ****ing it. He either statues or gets statued and it makes for spiteful/boring matches

BvS Superman still has feats like overwhelming Faora (who has a legit speed blitz feat) and flying from the Arctic to Metroplis in a few seconds, so even limited to those two movies he's still considerably faster than Thor. I just don't see Thor landing a hit with Stormbreaker if Superman is fighting at his best.

Originally posted by h1a8
A "few" is not well defined. The mod also talked about random intervals of time (a day later).

By all means, try and get a mod to agree that the 4th post is too late.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Based on what? Zod's ship blast pushed back Superman, a being that can casually tow an icebreaker and survive a nuke. Cyborg mildly annoyed him, just look at his expression. Thor's lightning cloak has hurt nobody of note, so to say that it hurt Superman to the point of preventing him from attacking is a bit of a reach.

Superman withstood and overpowered the energy beam of the World Engine, which was flattening skyscrapers on the other side of the planet, and he was depowered when this happened. It's up to you to prove that Thor's lightning cloak is stronger than that.

Also, Wonder Woman is in the fight. Is Thor going to risk hurting an ally with an AoE attack? Seems a bit out of character to me. He didn't do that in IW or Endgame.

Cybrog's blast knocked Superman back a step. I never said Thor's lightning cloak will prevent him from attacking. Please don't make stuff up.

My point was that Thor's lightning will, at the very least, stagger him similar to how every single energy attack thrown at Superman was able to either slow him down or stagger him at the very least.

Now if you want to claim that Superman can completely ignore Thor's lightning and that it will completely not affect him, please show me a feat where Superman was not staggered or slowed down even a bit by an energy attack.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I don't understand why we are playing is bvs vs Justice League thing. We all know Superman was brand new at this so it would make sense for him to get more powerful throughout the movies literally like every other f****** superhero. Superman is going to get stronger and push his limits. Him, Diana, and Doomsday were all operating at what seemed equal speeds in BVS. And then he statues her in JL. A clear upgrade

Originally posted by h1a8
How so? If IM developed a new energy blast and hurt Thor with it then how come it's not a feat for IM? Why would it be circular? Oh I see. Energy and physical strikes are not related. Got you.

Superman tanked HV blasts in which lesser HV has sliced an I-beam in one swipe. According to Newton's law of heating (cooling). The temperature of the HV was many times higher than that of melting structural steel.

Even if Superman didn't have any feats against energy then we can't say how powerful Zod's ship blasts or Cyborg blasts are just because they have no other feats. They both come from technology far above humans. And humans have some plucking powerful energy blasts.

You don't know what circular logic is do you?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Cybrog's blast knocked Superman back a step. I never said Thor's lightning cloak will prevent him from attacking. Please don't make stuff up.

My point was that Thor's lightning will, at the very least, stagger him similar to how every single energy attack thrown at Superman was able to either slow him down or stagger him at the very least.

Now if you want to claim that Superman can completely ignore Thor's lightning and that it will completely not affect him, please show me a feat where Superman was not staggered or slowed down even a bit by an energy attack.

I'm not saying it won't affect him, but I don't think it's going to be a serious issue for him. Now, a big lightning strike like the one he hit Thanos would definitely hurt Clark, but that's different.

And again, I don't see Thor turning on the lightning cloak with Wonder Woman near him unless he's completely out of character.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You don't know what circular logic is do you?

I know what it is. I'm the king of pointing it out.
I gave a energy feat for Superman to show that the ones that staggered him were more powerful. How is that circular?

The onus is on you to prove that cloak lightning is at least as powerful as HV from DD.

Originally posted by h1a8
I know what it is. I'm the king of pointing it out.
I gave a energy feat for Superman to show that the ones that staggered him were more powerful. How is that circular?

The onus is on you to prove that cloak lightning is at least as powerful as HV from DD.

Actually you didn't provide anything. When has Superman ever tanked any HV blast that didn't slow him down?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Actually you didn't provide anything. When has Superman ever tanked any HV blast that didn't slow him down?
Here's a logic for you to understand.
If a-beam is 100x greater than x-beam. And a-beam barely affected character then x-beam won't do jack shit to character.

Originally posted by h1a8
Here's a logic for you to understand.
If a-beam is 100x greater than x-beam. And a-beam barely affected character then x-beam won't do jack shit to character.

Don't really have the patience to chase after your goalpost shifts.
If you have a feat where Superman is able to walkthrough an energy attack without it slowing him down or staggering him then please show it. Otherwise we have nothing to discuss.

Who's the strongest character his lightning cloak affected?

Also, lol at the notion that every energy attack have the same power behind them.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Who's the strongest character his lightning cloak affected?

Also, lol at the notion that every energy attack have the same power behind them.

His lightning cloak is made up of his lightning.

His lightning as slammed Thanos to the ground. Knocked Hela off a tower. Completely knocked Hulk flat on his ass.

But sure if you want a more specific example, he used his lightning cloak to knock Hela around a bit in their final fight.


And if you think we shouldn't assume that every lightning attack Thor throws is the same power, then we also shouldn't assume every attack Superman throws can be done at the same speed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't really have the patience to chase after your goalpost shifts.
If you have a feat where Superman is able to walkthrough an energy attack without it slowing him down or staggering him then please show it. Otherwise we have nothing to discuss.

So you disagree with the logic that if a character is barely affected by an attack then they won't be affected by a significantly weaker attack?

Originally posted by FrothByte
His lightning cloak is made up of his lightning.

His lightning as slammed Thanos to the ground. Knocked Hela off a tower. Completely knocked Hulk flat on his ass.


And if you think we shouldn't assume that every lightning attack Thor throws is the same power, then we also shouldn't assume every attack Superman throws can be done at the same speed.

It's about intensity and SIZE. The bigger the bolt then the more powerful it is. It's not about it being made of the same substance lmao. Otherwise a little electric shock I get from putting a metal pin in the wall socket = who you are the God of again type thunderbolt.

Note : when you are debating from bias just to win and not from objectivity and concede to at least some things then you will lose credibility fast as your arguments will tend to get dumber and it will appear as if you are making shit up as you go along just to try to not lose the debate.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you disagree with the logic that if a character is barely affected by an attack then they won't be affected by a significantly weaker attack?

I believe in feats. If you want to claim that Superman won't be affected by an energy attack, please feel free to post a feat where he isn't affected by an energy attack.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Who's the strongest character his lightning cloak affected?

Also, lol at the notion that every energy attack have the same power behind them.

What is the strongest lightning Superman has been shown to tank?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What is the strongest lightning Superman has been shown to tank?

You implying that HV tanking is irrelevant to withstanding lightning.
Why not be more direct and say this? We can argue that point if that's the case. Your debating style is full of troll and flame. I have never seen you debate civilly and with respect. It's always in contempt.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I believe in feats. If you want to claim that Superman won't be affected by an energy attack, please feel free to post a feat where he isn't affected by an energy attack. You are avoiding the question because the answer is No
and you know it destroys your entire point.

Here's the kicker. According to your logic, Thor will be affected by HV and every energy based attack that's less powerful than the star feat since he was affected in the star feat.

Lightning would also affect him differently as it has extreme heat and the electricity would mess with his muscles as well and Thor's lightning has impact force as it has launched people through the air.

Originally posted by h1a8
You implying that HV tanking is irrelevant to withstanding lightning.
Why not be more direct and say this? We can argue that point if that's the case. Your debating style is full of troll and flame. I have never seen you debate civilly and with respect. It's always in contempt.

Lightning has more properties than just heat, if you don't believe me. go and stick a fork in a electrical socket. or let someone hit you with a stun gun and then report back with your findings.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Lightning has more properties than just heat, if you don't believe me. go and stick a fork in a electrical socket. or let someone hit you with a stun gun and then report back with your findings. It does not have any properties related damaging objects or people other than heat. In other words, The other properties it has does not do any damage to objects. As current flows through objects, it causes damage as heat damage.
Electric current can easily bypass the surface and flow inside objects.
Pure heat can't. It has to press its way through.

LOL at the idea that electricity doesn't damage people. so, you would be ok with allowing me to hit you with a stun gun?

Originally posted by KingD19
Lightning would also affect him differently as it has extreme heat and the electricity would mess with his muscles as well and Thor's lightning has impact force as it has launched people through the air. We are talking about the cloak lightning. Not a massive bolt from the sky. The heat will do nothing. Muscle will only be affected if the electric current can affect his tissues (which is through heat energy). If heat won't affect his tissues then electric current won't either.

As far as impact force. Superman can lift more than thousands of tons. The impact force only lifted Hulk (half a ton being) some feet in the air. Less than 10 tons of force. Plus Thor directed that level of lightning with his hands (Thor will be moving very slowly to Superman here).

Even if Thor managed to push Superman back then what will that do? Superman can still blitz Thor before he can react.

Originally posted by Silent Master
LOL at the idea that electricity doesn't damage people. so, you would be ok with allowing me to hit you with a stun gun? Where did I stated that it won't damage people?

h1 doesn't understand how electricity works.

Originally posted by Silent Master
h1 doesn't understand how electricity works.

Then kindly explain how it works.
Remember, not only Superman is an alien but he is powered up (can't compare him to humans).

And caught you in a lie.

What lie did you catch me in?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What lie did you catch me in?

You implied that I gave the idea that electric current doesn't dame people.

Originally posted by h1a8
You implied that I gave the idea that electric current doesn't dame people.

I said it had properties other than heat and you replied that heat was the only way it damages people. thus my comment is obviously referring to things other than heat.

I thought you were smart, try and keep up.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are avoiding the question because the answer is No
and you know it destroys your entire point.

Here's the kicker. According to your logic, Thor will be affected by HV and every energy based attack that's less powerful than the star feat since he was affected in the star feat.

Well yes, I do think Thor will be affected by HV. Now, do you have a feat of Superman easily walking through an HV blast or not? Because if you don't, none of this is relevant.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I said it had properties other than heat and you replied that heat was the only way it damages people. thus my comment is obviously referring to things other than heat.

I thought you were smart, try and keep up.

"The idea that electricity doesn't damage people" means exactly what is written. You have to be an idiot to believe it mean ANYTHING ELSE.

Just admit that you mistyped and all is good. We can discuss how it can damage humans other than heat.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well yes, I do think Thor will be affected by HV. Now, do you have a feat of Superman easily walking through an HV blast or not? Because if you don't, none of this is relevant.

So Thor will be affected by every energy attack (no matter how weak) just because he was affected in the star feat?

Originally posted by h1a8
So Thor will be affected by every energy attack (no matter how weak) just because he was affected in the star feat?

Sorry bud, two way conversation here. I answered your question now you answer mine before you keep questioning away. Do you have a feat where Superman walks through an HV attack without getting staggered or not.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Sorry bud, two way conversation here. I answered your question now you answer mine before you keep questioning away. Do you have a feat where Superman walks through an HV attack without getting staggered or not.

Why would you ask a question you know the answer to?
That's a trolling tactic.
Just debate directly. Say what you mean and get to your point.

The debate is actually about the logic you are using.
"If a character tanks an attack with some effect then they would be affected by any weaker attack."

Do you see how silly that is?

Originally posted by h1a8
Why would you ask a question you know the answer to?
That's a trolling tactic.
Just debate directly. Say what you mean and get to your point.

The debate is actually about the logic you are using.
"If a character tanks an attack with some effect then they would be affected by any weaker attack."

Do you see how silly that is?

This is not how a debate works. I ask a question then you ask a question. I answered yours now answer mine: Do you have any feat where Superman walks through an HV attack, or any other energy attack for that matter, without him getting staggered?

Simple yes or no question.

Answer the question or admit you don't know how a debate works.

Originally posted by FrothByte
This is not how a debate works. I ask a question then you ask a question. I answered yours now answer mine: Do you have any feat where Superman walks through an HV attack, or any other energy attack for that matter, without him getting staggered?

Answer the question or admit you don't know how a debate works.
That's not how debates work.
Why ask a question we both know the answer to? Just make your point.

P. S. You never answered my question. So you have no right to demand an answer to your question. I didnt ask if Thor will be hurt from HV. I asked if a character will be affected from an energy attack that is 100x weaker than an energy attack that barely affected them.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's not how debates work.
Why ask a question we both know the answer to? Just make your point.

Answer the question then I'll make my point. Stop wasting both of our time. Yes or no is very easy to type.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Answer the question then I'll make my point. Stop wasting both of our time. Yes or no is very easy to type. reread my post. The P. S. part

Originally posted by h1a8
reread my post. The P. S. part

Look at poor little H1 twisting himself into knots because he's too chickensh*t to answer a simple yes or no question.

Anyway, I'm not going to put up with your bull. You know the golden rule. Feats or it didn't happen.

Once you have a feat of Superman easily walking through an energy attack without slowing down, let me know.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Look at poor little H1 twisting himself into knots because he's too chickensh*t to answer a simple yes or no question.

Anyway, I'm not going to put up with your bull. You know the golden rule. Feats or it didn't happen.

Once you have a feat of Superman easily walking through an energy attack without slowing down, let me know.

Why would I answer a question where you didn't answer mine first?
That's not how debates work right?

At this point you are being a hypocrite. You are chickenshit by not giving me a simple yes or no

Originally posted by h1a8
"The idea that electricity doesn't damage people" means exactly what is written. You have to be an idiot to believe it mean ANYTHING ELSE.

Just admit that you mistyped and all is good. We can discuss how it can damage humans other than heat.

This has already been explained to you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This has already been explained to you.

You explained what you meant but you typed something that doesn't mean that.
Therefore, you mistyped.

P. S. "This" has no antecedent. Therefore, you mistyped again.

I've already explained your misunderstanding

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've already explained your misunderstanding

I misunderstood what you meant because you typed incorrectly.

I didn't type incorrectly, you just couldn't keep up with the conversation.

Originally posted by FrothByte
His lightning cloak is made up of his lightning.

His lightning as slammed Thanos to the ground. Knocked Hela off a tower. Completely knocked Hulk flat on his ass.

But sure if you want a more specific example, he used his lightning cloak to knock Hela around a bit in their final fight.


And if you think we shouldn't assume that every lightning attack Thor throws is the same power, then we also shouldn't assume every attack Superman throws can be done at the same speed. This is stupid as phuck. Are you saying Thor's lightning cloak should be extrapolated from A1 or Infinity War's biggest lightning attack? Lol

Originally posted by Silent Master
What is the strongest lightning Superman has been shown to tank? Dormammu doesn't have any electricity tanking feat. Would he be affected as well?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
This is stupid as phuck. Are you saying Thor's lightning cloak should be extrapolated from A1 or Infinity War's biggest lightning attack? Lol

No. I'm saying his lightning can potentially be as strong as his stronger strikes if he needs it to be. Same way just because a person hits you with a light punch doesn't mean they can't put more power behind it if necessary.

But like I said if you want a more direct comparison, then he used similar lightning against Hela in their bridge fight. Similar lightning also to the one he used to knock Hulk off him.

Even if we use the weakest lightning Thor had used, they have always been able to, at the very least, stagger his opponents.

In comparison, Superman has zero feats of not being staggered by an energy attack.

Golden rule in the mvf is that feats matter the most.

Post Hela's and Hulk's clips.

You are applying plain bad logic.

Just because Superman was staggered by another energy attack doesn't suddenly mean any energy based attack will affect him, let alone to the extent you're implying lol. You'd have to prove said attack to be = or >.

Otherwise, I can turn it around and ask, when has Thor not been koed by a blitzing punch from someone with Superman's strength, durability and speed?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Dormammu doesn't have any electricity tanking feat. Would he be affected as well?

If you want to know about Dormammu, start a Dormammu thread.

Now, what is Superman's best lightning tanking feat?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Post Hela's and Hulk's clips.

You are applying plain bad logic.

Just because Superman was staggered by another energy attack doesn't suddenly mean any energy based attack will affect him, let alone to the extent you're implying lol. You'd have to prove said attack to be = or >.

Otherwise, I can turn it around and ask, when has Thor not been koed by a blitzing punch from someone with Superman's strength, durability and speed?

False equivalence. A proper equivalence would be saying Thor has never been punched by someone exactly like Superman in the same way that Superman has never been hit by something exactly like Thor's lightning. However, Thor has been hit by super strong opponents before and Superman has been hit by energy attacks before, so that's what we're using to compare.

What we do know is that Thor's lightning is very destructive and has multiple feats of knocking superpowered beings off their feet whereas Superman has zero feats of not being staggered by energy attacks.

My argument is based on feats. Now if you want to claim that Superman can simply walk through Thor's lightning without it bothering him in the least, onus is on you to provide proof of that since it goes against everything we've seen so far.

Froth is saying that if a character was barely affected by an energy attack then they will also be affected by an energy attack that is more than 100x weaker.

He's saying that Thor will be staggered and affected by any energy attack no matter how weak BECAUSE he was affected in the star feat.

He refused to see the logic that a significantly weaker attack will do nothing (in terms of slowing a character down) if a stronger attack barely affected the character.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I didn't type incorrectly, you just couldn't keep up with the conversation.

Yeah you did. You are either lying or don't know English well.

Originally posted by h1a8
Froth is saying that if a character was barely affected by an energy attack then they will also be affected by an energy attack that is more than 100x weaker.



Because Thor's lightning is somehow 100x weaker than Cyborg's blast right? Lol. Whatever dude.

I'm sorry that h1 isn't smart enough to follow a conversation. I'll try and keep that in mind going forward.

Originally posted by FrothByte
False equivalence. A proper equivalence would be saying Thor has never been punched by someone exactly like Superman in the same way that Superman has never been hit by something exactly like Thor's lightning. However, Thor has been hit by super strong opponents before and Superman has been hit by energy attacks before, so that's what we're using to compare.

What we do know is that Thor's lightning is very destructive and has multiple feats of knocking superpowered beings off their feet whereas Superman has zero feats of not being staggered by energy attacks.

My argument is based on feats. Now if you want to claim that Superman can simply walk through Thor's lightning without it bothering him in the least, onus is on you to provide proof of that since it goes against everything we've seen so far. I'm just disputing the fact that lightning cloak would somehow stagger him when it only affected fodder. You are simply dancing around the point, being careful with your wording misrepresenting my stance and making ridiculous claims. Lol

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you want to know about Dormammu, start a Dormammu thread.

Now, what is Superman's best lightning tanking feat? So you don't agree it's a retarded stance, do you?

If you want to know about Dormammu, start a Dormammu thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Froth is saying that if a character was barely affected by an energy attack then they will also be affected by an energy attack that is more than 100x weaker.

He's saying that Thor will be staggered and affected by any energy attack no matter how weak BECAUSE he was affected in the star feat.

He refused to see the logic that a significantly weaker attack will do nothing (in terms of slowing a character down) if a stronger attack barely affected the character.


Yeah you did. You are either lying or don't know English well.

It's one of the most baffling arguments I've ever seen in this side of the forums tbh. I'm pretty sure they are mostly just trolling you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you want to know about Dormammu, start a Dormammu thread. Case in point. Thanks for trying, once again. (:

Not going to humor your derailing attempts.

Then bring up actual good points or take some trolling courses.

So, you agree with h1 that electricity effects people exactly the same as HV?

Yeah, definitely ask for some coaching.

So I can act more like you?

I never troll. Do I?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I'm just disputing the fact that lightning cloak would somehow stagger him when it only affected fodder. You are simply dancing around the point, being careful with your wording misrepresenting my stance and making ridiculous claims. Lol

No dude, I am basing my arguments on feats (which we're supposed to do) whereas you're using a no-limits fallacy, where you're basically saying Superman is immune to energy attacks unless proven otherwise. That's a no limits fallacy because every single energy attack launched at Superman has staggered him, and most of those attacks don't have the feats to compete against Thor's lightning.

Case in point: Cyborg's blasts blasted parademons away. Thor's lightning cloak was not only blasting undead Asgardians away but also punching holes through them.

If you want to claim that Superman can walk through that lightning completely unfazed, it's up to you to prove he can because it goes against how he was portrayed on screen.

You're avoiding having to prove your point because you know you don't have the feats to support it. Want to claim Superman can walk through an energy attack like Thor's lightning? Post a feat of him doing so.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No dude, I am basing my arguments on feats (which we're supposed to do) whereas you're using a no-limits fallacy, where you're basically saying Superman is immune to energy attacks unless proven otherwise. That's a no limits fallacy because every single energy attack launched at Superman has staggered him, and most of those attacks don't have the feats to compete against Thor's lightning.

Case in point: Cyborg's blasts blasted parademons away. Thor's lightning cloak was not only blasting undead Asgardians away but also punching holes through them.

If you want to claim that Superman can walk through that lightning completely unfazed, it's up to you to prove he can because it goes against how he was portrayed on screen.

You're avoiding having to prove your point because you know you don't have the feats to support it. Want to claim Superman can walk through an energy attack like Thor's lightning? Post a feat of him doing so. No, I am not claiming Superman would walk through Thor's most powerful lightning. See? Wording and misrepresenting. Try harder.

I just find it ridiculous that you believe those little sparks would bother someone who withstood a beam meant to reform the planet, re-entry from space multiple times, HV iirc, etc to the point it would somehow prevent Thor from getting blitzed. Based on what? Some undead fodder shit getting busted up? Nah, I don't think that's a solid ground to stand on and you know it too.

Superman's HV has sliced an I-beam in a single swipe. According to Newton's law of cooling, the temperature of the HV was many times higher than that of the melting point of that type of steel. DD HV overpowered Superman's HV and all it did was push Superman back without even harming him in the slightest.

Yet, a much weaker attack (the sparking cloak lightning) will still bother Superman to the same degree.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
No, I am not claiming Superman would walk through Thor's most powerful lightning. See? Wording and misrepresenting. Try harder.

I just find it ridiculous that you believe those little sparks would bother someone who withstood a beam meant to reform the planet, re-entry from space multiple times, HV iirc, etc to the point it would somehow prevent Thor from getting blitzed. Based on what? Some undead fodder shit getting busted up? Nah, I don't think that's a solid ground to stand on and you know it too.

If you're not claiming that then we have nothing to argue about.

I'm not claiming they can injure or seriously hurt Superman, merely that they will stagger him the same way EVERY SINGLE ENERGY ATTACK on Superman has staggered him. I don't think that's an unfair argument considering I'm only basing this on feats Superman has displayed on screen.

And come now, calling Thor's lightning "little sparks" is a ridiculous amount of lowballing. Those "undead fodder shit" were still tough enough to go toe to toe with regular Asgardians and Thor's lightning was one-shotting them, at times blasting them to pieces.

Here's Thor using a similar-looking lightning stream to knock Hela around:
https://youtu.be/Xo54_s1TKp4?t=270

Superman has never been able to blitz someone through an energy attack, so if you think he can just blast through that lightning cloak without getting slowed down then it is pure speculation without any shred of proof to back it up. In other words, a no limits fallacy.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman's HV has sliced an I-beam in a single swipe. According to Newton's law of cooling, the temperature of the HV was many times higher than that of the melting point of that type of steel. DD HV overpowered Superman's HV and all it did was push Superman back without even harming him in the slightest.


In other words, it staggered him. Thank you for proving me right.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In other words, it staggered him. Thank you for proving me right.

Notice how whenever h1 applies his version of "RL physics" to debates, it's always to either boost a character he likes or downplay one he doesn't.

Odd coincidence, isn't it?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
This is stupid as phuck. Are you saying Thor's lightning cloak should be extrapolated from A1 or Infinity War's biggest lightning attack? Lol
Exactly that assertion is plain Stupid. Wonder who came up with that.

Nobody did, hence Froth's answer was "No".

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nobody did, hence Froth's answer was "No".

Exactly. They keep exaggerating and misrepresenting what I said to make my argument seem ridiculous, because they know they have no other way to prove it wrong.

Notice how all they're doing is criticizing my argument when not one of them gave even a single feat to prove that Superman can walk through Thor's lightning without being staggered.

Far easier to criticize someone else instead of backing up your own argument.

They could potentially stop at 3. I've no problem believing SB or WW's sword could kill Faora, but she's a clear speedster. So is Diana, but Kryptonians are more powerful than WW and Faora's got no weakness here.

I'm also assuming Faora has her Kryptonian blade and it's durable enough to stab Thor and WW.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Exactly. They keep exaggerating and misrepresenting what I said to make my argument seem ridiculous, because they know they have no other way to prove it wrong.

Notice how all they're doing is criticizing my argument when not one of them gave even a single feat to prove that Superman can walk through Thor's lightning without being staggered.

Far easier to criticize someone else instead of backing up your own argument.

You are claiming that if a character is shown to be barely affected by an energy attack then they will also be equally affected by ANY weaker energy attack no matter how much weaker it is.
Therefore Thor's cloak lightning = strongest lightning.

Your logic
Basically if someone is slightly staggered or pushed back (with no damage) from a blast that can disintegrate a planet in a second then they will be also be staggered if they are hit with a blast that is barely capable of boiling a cup of water in 10 seconds.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are claiming that if a character is shown to be barely affected by an energy attack then they will also be equally affected by ANY weaker energy attack no matter how much weaker it is.

When have I ever claimed this?

My claim was that Thor's lightning, and SPECIFICALLY Thor's lightning, will stagger Superman. Not just ANY energy attack.


See what I mean by you exaggerating and misrepresenting my arguments?

Originally posted by Robtard
They could potentially stop at 3. I've no problem believing SB or WW's sword could kill Faora, but she's a clear speedster. So is Diana, but Kryptonians are more powerful than WW and Faora's got no weakness here.

I'm also assuming Faora has her Kryptonian blade and it's durable enough to stab Thor and WW. Good post. I forgot about the blade. She cant use it here.

Originally posted by FrothByte
When have I ever claimed this?

My claim was that Thor's lightning, and SPECIFICALLY Thor's lightning, will stagger Superman. Not just ANY energy attack.


See what I mean by you exaggerating and misrepresenting my arguments?

You haven't.

H1 is just doing his usual lying.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you're not claiming that then we have nothing to argue about.

I'm not claiming they can injure or seriously hurt Superman, merely that they will stagger him the same way EVERY SINGLE ENERGY ATTACK on Superman has staggered him. I don't think that's an unfair argument considering I'm only basing this on feats Superman has displayed on screen.

And come now, calling Thor's lightning "little sparks" is a ridiculous amount of lowballing. Those "undead fodder shit" were still tough enough to go toe to toe with regular Asgardians and Thor's lightning was one-shotting them, at times blasting them to pieces.

Here's Thor using a similar-looking lightning stream to knock Hela around:
https://youtu.be/Xo54_s1TKp4?t=270

Superman has never been able to blitz someone through an energy attack, so if you think he can just blast through that lightning cloak without getting slowed down then it is pure speculation without any shred of proof to back it up. In other words, a no limits fallacy. The first lightning did nothing and in the one that did he was using his sword lol.

Feats for random Asgardians please?

In the end, yes, Superman has been staggered by energy attacks. But you can't feasibly prove Thor's lightning cloak to be as strong or stronger that those. Much less to the point it would stop Superman from blitzing the shit out of him.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm saying his lightning can potentially be as strong as his stronger strikes if he needs it to be. Same way just because a person hits you with a light punch doesn't mean they can't put more power behind it if necessary. And yeah, I'm not exaggerating anything because you did say this. Now I'm just going to sit here and watch amused how you and your charmingly inept troll friend try to wiggle your way out of this.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
And yeah, I'm not exaggerating anything because you did say this. Now I'm just going to sit here and watch amused how you and your charmingly inept troll friend try to wiggle your way out of this.

Ok. Why would I want to wiggle out of that? Nothing I said there contradicts with anything else I said. Of course you removed the very first thing I mentioned in that answer which was a very clear "NO", to indicate that I did indeed mean to equal his lightning cloak to his strongest lightning attacks like the one he used against the leviathans (which to date is possible his strongest attack yet).

Of course, I have a feeling you'll be trying to specifically misrepresent my statement again, something which I believe you'll be proving to me in your very next reply.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
The first lightning did nothing and in the one that did he was using his sword lol.

Feats for random Asgardians please?

In the end, yes, Superman has been staggered by energy attacks. But you can't feasibly prove Thor's lightning cloak to be as strong or stronger that those. Much less to the point it would stop Superman from blitzing the shit out of him.

The first lightning lifted Hela completely off her feet. Something that's a lot more impressive than simply staggering someone.

The sword doesn't amplify the lightning. It was simply used as an extension.

Asgardian farmer in AOS easily crumpled a tactical knife in his hand. Bent steel bars. Easily pushed around cars.

Thor's lightning has just as good (if not better) feats as Cyborg's blasts, and those staggered Superman.

As for it not being able to stop Superman from "blitzing the shit out of him", please show me proof of Superman blitzing someone through an energy attack or energy field. Heck, I'd settle for you proving Superman can simply walk through an energy attack without slowing down. Or are you going to continue using a no limits fallacy?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok. Why would I want to wiggle out of that? Nothing I said there contradicts with anything else I said. Of course you removed the very first thing I mentioned in that answer which was a very clear "NO", to indicate that I did indeed mean to equal his lightning cloak to his strongest lightning attacks like the one he used against the leviathans (which to date is possible his strongest attack yet).

Of course, I have a feeling you'll be trying to specifically misrepresent my statement again, something which I believe you'll be proving to me in your very next reply.

Couldn't edit my answer anymore to correct my typo. What I meant to say was:

Of course you removed the very first thing I mentioned in that answer which was a very clear "NO", to indicate that I didn't indeed mean to equal his lightning cloak to his strongest lightning attacks like the one he used against the leviathans (which to date is possible his strongest lightning attack yet).

Originally posted by FrothByte
The first lightning lifted Hela completely off her feet. Something that's a lot more impressive than simply staggering someone.

The sword doesn't amplify the lightning. It was simply used as an extension.

Asgardian farmer in AOS easily crumpled a tactical knife in his hand. Bent steel bars. Easily pushed around cars.

Thor's lightning has just as good (if not better) feats as Cyborg's blasts, and those staggered Superman.

As for it not being able to stop Superman from "blitzing the shit out of him", please show me proof of Superman blitzing someone through an energy attack or energy field. Heck, I'd settle for you proving Superman can simply walk through an energy attack without slowing down. Or are you going to continue using a no limits fallacy?
What about Superman fighting flash , while Flash's lightning Sparks were all over the place, did that slow Superman down?
Tbf your arguments about Thor's lightning cloak is just funny,
Superman will blitz the shit outta Thor with the uttermost ease.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
What about Superman fighting flash , while Flash's lightning Sparks were all over the place, did that slow Superman down?
Tbf your arguments about Thor's lightning cloak is just funny,
Superman will blitz the shit outta Thor with the uttermost ease.

Has Flash's lightning ever been used as a weapon against anyone? Does he have feats of his lightning attacking opponents?

Has Superman ever blitzed someone through an energy attack? Has Superman ever been able to completely ignore an energy attack?

Originally posted by 9jaboy
What about Superman fighting flash , while Flash's lightning Sparks were all over the place, did that slow Superman down?
Tbf your arguments about Thor's lightning cloak is just funny,
Superman will blitz the shit outta Thor with the uttermost ease.

Superman never fought Flash in BvS.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Superman never fought Flash in BvS.
You didn't ask him that when he used Cyborg's energy attack on Supes. Double Standards much?

Originally posted by 9jaboy
You didn't ask him that when he used Cyborg's energy attack on Supes. Double Standards much?

Unless Superman's durability was way better in BvS than in JL, this seems like a weird assertion.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Has Flash's lightning ever been used as a weapon against anyone? Does he have feats of his lightning attacking opponents?

Has Superman ever blitzed someone through an energy attack? Has Superman ever been able to completely ignore an energy attack?
Dude that was a Lightning cloak, are you saying it's weaker than Thor's?
I just watched the Ragnarok Thor scene, you're blowing the whole cloak thing out of proportion. That thing was completely useless against hela , Only those hits combined with lightning pushed hela down.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Dude that was a Lightning cloak, are you saying it's weaker than Thor's?
I just watched the Ragnarok Thor scene, you're blowing the whole cloak thing out of proportion. That thing was completely useless against hela , Only those hits combined with lightning pushed hela down.


You didn't answer the question though. Has Flash's lightning ever been used to attack opponents the same way Thor's lightning cloak was attacking opponents?