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preretcon Beyonder. Thanos with HOTI

Team 1

Team 1.

either of team 1 solos.

The reach of the Heart of the Universe is limited to the universe. And while he probably could overpower Dr. Manhattan and the Darkest Knight they could just leave, or not decide to enter his universe.

But the battle between the Beyonder and Molecule Man caused more collateral damage than any of Dr. Manhattan's or the Darkest Knight's fights. So he'd destroy both of them.

derp

collateral damage isnt a good way to gauge a fight.

but if we go the scaling route then;
darkest knight>perpetua>doc manhattan>mxy>infinite multiverse.

I thought DM was stated above or equal to Perpetua

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
collateral damage isnt a good way to gauge a fight.
How else would you gauge a fight if not by damage caused, and by the ease by which it's caused?

Perpetua was weakened by having planets shoved in her face.

https://i.imgur.com/THq0uJtm.jpg

Unless you want to hand-wave this to be some abstract visual metaphor for what actually happened then there's no excuse.

The Celestials' attempt to overthrow Thanos with the Infinity Gems was on a grander scale, and he thwarted that with a wave of his hand instead of picking up his own planets.

https://i.imgur.com/4yZHmFtm.jpg

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but if we go the scaling route then;
darkest knight>perpetua>doc manhattan>mxy>infinite multiverse.
I understand where you're going with this, and the issue I have with it is that it's disingenuous.

It says a lot about argument when it relies on a twenty year-old title published outside of continuity, that not only hasn't been referenced but is also incoherent with the current story-line.

For ****'s sake Perpetua had to coordinate a campaign just to destroy single universes.

https://i.imgur.com/0xMEVcam.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/yXrFyRLm.png

It contradicts your interpretation of her being able to destroy the multiverse at the snap of a finger.

No reason to be nasty

Originally posted by Astner
How else would you gauge a fight if not by damage caused, and by the ease by which it's caused? because sometimes energy attacks are more powerful then the collateral damage they cause.

the scene where owen hits beyonder with a blast that could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but didnt even damage his apartment room is a pretty common example.

Originally posted by Astner
Perpetua was weakened by having planets shoved in her face.

https://i.imgur.com/THq0uJtm.jpg

Unless you want to hand-wave this to be some abstract visual metaphor for what actually happened then there's no excuse. wheres it say she was weakened by that?

Originally posted by Astner
The Celestials' attempt to overthrow Thanos with the Infinity Gems was on a grander scale, and he thwarted that with a wave of his hand instead of picking up his own planets.

https://i.imgur.com/4yZHmFtm.jpg okay?

Originally posted by Astner
It says a lot about argument when it relies on a twenty year-old title published outside of continuity, that not only hasn't been referenced but is also incoherent with the current story-line. all of mxys feats are canon to him as a character. and i dont see why the age of the book matters? does he need to destroy a multiverse every week for the feat to be valid?

Originally posted by Astner
For ****'s sake Perpetua had to coordinate a campaign just to destroy single universes.

https://i.imgur.com/0xMEVcam.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/yXrFyRLm.png

It contradicts your interpretation of her being able to destroy the multiverse at the snap of a finger. wasn't perpetua still weakened there or was she at full power? cant remember.

astner already lost the debate here and hes at it again

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=671369&pagenumber=9

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
because sometimes energy attacks are more powerful then the collateral damage they cause.

the scene where owen hits beyonder with a blast that could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but didnt even damage his apartment room is a pretty common example.

wheres it say she was weakened by that?

okay?

all of mxys feats are canon to him as a character. and i dont see why the age of the book matters? does he need to destroy a multiverse every week for the feat to be valid?

wasn't perpetua still weakened there or was she at full power? cant remember.

perpetua was def weakened there

Astner likes to talk about collateral damage

molecule man and beyonder fight didnt even destroy the apartment living room, I guess Beyonder is living room level

Sometimes we have to use collateral damage but it also varies on the author
Snyder mentioned that Perpetua was almost always weakened. She lost her power after fighting the JL

how dare perpetua and batmanhattan smash planets at each other

this is how multiversal level fight should be conducted, the true high level mr master certified winners, they can bust multiverse while not destroying anything in their apartment. thats where the true skills lie

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6f001dd1c5e3917eced2cbaf847c0807

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
because sometimes energy attacks are more powerful then the collateral damage they cause.

the scene where owen hits beyonder with a blast that could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but didnt even damage his apartment room is a pretty common example.
Yes, but you still have the Beyonder's fight against Molecule Man where the multiverse was destroyed to fall back on. You don't have anything like that for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
wheres it say she was weakened by that?
https://i.imgur.com/mhNrLwgm.jpg

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
all of mxys feats are canon to him as a character. and i dont see why the age of the book matters? does he need to destroy a multiverse every week for the feat to be valid?
What he has to do is to remain consistent and have his peers being able to replicate the feats when needed.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
wasn't perpetua still weakened there or was she at full power? cant remember.
Weakened by what?

Originally posted by MrMind
astner already lost the debate here and hes at it again

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=671369&pagenumber=9
You run away after my final reply, then you return to thread over a month later when it's buried and post a bunch of scans that doesn't discredit a single argument I've made in the thread, and then you declare yourself the "winner." Weren't you seeing a shrink to prevent shit like this from happening?

you literally didn't counter a single point i made except nitpicking one sentence or two out of whole paragraphs and scans to argue, pick and choose where you wanna debate

every single arguments you made in that thread, proved to be a lie

it was super pathetic and disingenuous

Originally posted by MrMind
you literally didn't counter a single point i made except nitpicking one sentence or two out of whole paragraphs and scans to argue, pick and choose where you wanna debate
No seriously, reread the thread. 52 universes, the 6th dimension being the highest, claims of infinite dimensions referring to universes and not spatial dimensions according to the exact same issue, etc.

There's a reason why you retreated from the thread, and why you seethed so bad that you had to return over a month later to get the last word in, twice.

People don't like to agree with me, but look at the thread.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Latest Metaverse issue seems to agree with Astner.

Infinite Multiverse, then it was collapsed into a single reality (COIE) then the various crises (ZH etc) failed to recreate it.
The thread speaks for itself.

Originally posted by MrMind
every single arguments you made in that thread, proved to be a lie

it was super pathetic and disingenuous
I'm not really sure whether you're trolling or if you're off your meds. Either way there's no point in wasting my time.

Thanos absorbs them ftw.

Originally posted by Astner
Yes, but you still have the Beyonder's fight against Molecule Man where the multiverse was destroyed to fall back on. You don't have anything like that for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight. there are lots of other examples, but my point is just that the amount of collateral damage caused during a fight isnt always the best way to figure out who wins.

sometimes it might be a good indicator. but not always.

Originally posted by Astner
https://i.imgur.com/mhNrLwgm.jpg and the only reason darkest knight was able to weaken her is because he was smashing her with planets (which is what you said at first)? not because of the crisis energy he absorbed and was using against her?

Originally posted by Astner
What he has to do is to remain consistent and have his peers being able to replicate the feats when needed. my point is just that even though mxys operated on that kind of level he still said manhattan level characters were above him.

unless you think he was lying when he said manhattan was more powerful?

Originally posted by Astner
Weakened by what? maybe weakened isnt the best word, but i dont think she was at full power in that scene.

So I guess molecule man despite saying I won't let you hurt us, is going to allow the apartment and the woman to get destroyed by his blast? Even Beyonder protected a little flower from a blast. I tell you, some posters should not be allowed to post on certain threads.

Originally posted by JBL
So I guess molecule man despite saying I won't let you hurt us, is going to allow the apartment and the woman to get destroyed by his blast? Even Beyonder protected a little flower from a blast. I tell you, some posters should not be allowed to post on certain threads. in your attempt to troll, you also missed the point, young one.

astner said that collateral damage is the best way to gauge who wins a fight. the best way to gauge power.

owen's blast could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but it caused no damage at all to the apartment they were standing in. so that is one scene of many where the collateral damage argument is worthless.

unless you think owen's energy output is sub apartment level??

Perpetua used all of her power to destroy a single Universe and had to recharge afterwards and Darkest Knight was her equal. Planetary items were damaging her. This is a non-fight. Beyonder erase both of them with a thought.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
there are lots of other examples, but my point is just that the amount of collateral damage caused during a fight isnt always the best way to figure out who wins.

sometimes it might be a good indicator. but not always.

and the only reason darkest knight was able to weaken her is because he was smashing her with planets (which is what you said at first)? not because of the crisis energy he absorbed and was using against her?

my point is just that even though mxys operated on that kind of level he still said manhattan level characters were above him.

unless you think he was lying when he said manhattan was more powerful?

maybe weakened isnt the best word, but i dont think she was at full power in that scene.

She has all but fraction of her power.

https://ibb.co/dpDzRB3

Definition 2.

https://ibb.co/Sx4WQxt

im talking about after she battled the jla w. manhattans power.

Collateral damage doesn't dictate who wins a fight but the significance of this battle, this is when you have to look at things like that. She was only capable of destroying a single Universe with all of her power whereas Beyonder can destroy countless Universes with ease and remake them with a thought. The power difference here is HUGE. Its debatable if she can even hurt him. Beyonder stomps both. If this was Eternity or LT and it was said that his maximum is Universal, you all would use it as his cap. Lets do the same here.

Originally posted by Astner
No seriously, reread the thread. 52 universes, the 6th dimension being the highest, claims of infinite dimensions referring to universes and not spatial dimensions according to the exact same issue, etc.

There's a reason why you retreated from the thread, and why you seethed so bad that you had to return over a month later to get the last word in, twice.

People don't like to agree with me, but look at the thread.


The thread speaks for itself.


I'm not really sure whether you're trolling or if you're off your meds. Either way there's no point in wasting my time.

if you wanna retreat then retreat

but it's quite low to swing into a similar thread and peddling the same bs again

if you have something to say say it in that thread, I'm not gonna type for half an hour to show you again how wrong you are

especially since on panel scans proven
1. dc has infinite universes/multiverses,
2. dc has infinite dimensions
3. dc is composite canon

let's see you try to discredit these 3 facts again

beyonder's energy became the big bang at beyond realm in the end of secret wars 2, and made ONE universe. that's pathetic compare to the super celestials who made infinite multiverses in the sixth dimension

beyond realm view the marvel universe as a droplet of water into the ocean
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/12/125547/3344482-beyond-realm.jpg

in dc, third dimensional multiverse exist as bubbles in new genesis
https://i.ibb.co/27fntc7/Fourth-World2.png

Nil, view the dc multiverse as germ world, the monitors live in a archetypal world

The Dark Multiverse is a vast, subconscious realm that the main dc multiverse floats on, there are as many dark universes as there are bad thoughts throughout creations

tell me, what evidence is there to prove marvel is even remotely close to dc as far as size is concerned. beyonder is a small god in a small world, beyond realm by all means would be tiny comparing to dc's higher realms

after secret wars 2015, marvel multiverse is not infinite, it's couple thousands, tens of thousands at most
https://i.ibb.co/VmK58Gq/RCO013.jpg

Perpetua turns Brainiac One Million into her chair

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11140/111403905/7151235-1100200516-GoWyO.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11140/111403905/7151236-2885984913-GJ9Sb.jpg

This is the same Brainiac One Million who is casually multiversal. He bottled hundreds of universes futures. He was about to destroy every alternate future plucked from hypertime

This Brainiac bottled hundreds of universes and was about to destroy every alternate future plucked from hypertime

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11140/111403905/7151257-8203833248-KN7xP.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11140/111403905/7151259-2969252684-iMvyE.jpg

multiversal artifact like Warlogog was no match for Brainiac One Million

infinite future of death at his fingertips, perpetua oneshotted him

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/scale_super/7151260-2619915895-FqIoD.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11140/111403905/7151262-0430280886-aUbg9.jpg

I love how people are lowballing Perpetua (who's not at her full power) from one feat

Even though she's been stated to be omniversal, She created a infinite multiverse and put it on the palm of her hand

The combine power of WF, AM and Monitor cannot match a Perpetua that's not even at full power. And all three of the brothers are casually multiversal.

🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
in your attempt to troll, you also missed the point, young one.

astner said that collateral damage is the best way to gauge who wins a fight. the best way to gauge power.

owen's blast could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but it caused no damage at all to the apartment they were standing in. so that is one scene of many where the collateral damage argument is worthless.

unless you think owen's energy output is sub apartment level?? Or....... It could be that he intentionally protected the apartment knowing that a woman that he cared about was there.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/61967/1176797-secret_wars_ii_008_24.jpg

Are people actually reading too much into this?

Who the hell cares about the apartment.

Because people are arguing that collateral damage is a good indicator of power.

When it's not always.

I'd argue most of the times it isn't. Specially with cosmic bitches.

I like to think that the living room is a bubble floating in the infinite dimensions of the multiverse which is a droplet in the Yada Yada yada. I wish both companies would stop with this trash and just make regular ass stories.

As the reader I get completely taken out of the story after my universe died for the 50th time. **** the multiverse and everyone in it. Its just hard for me to give a shit about infinite versions of me.

Originally posted by JBL
Or....... It could be that he intentionally protected the apartment knowing that a woman that he cared about was there. But that's not the point.

In that scene there was literally zero collateral damage to Owen's apartment, despite the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions:
https://i.ibb.co/h7sL0JY/24.jpg

So only trying to gauge the blast's potency based on the amount of collateral damage it caused would be faulty in that instance.


Here is another example...

A blast from Galactus actually harmed Thanos to an extent, despite ALL the defensive shielding of his ship being in place:
https://i.ibb.co/7N9Mjxm/Thanos-2003-2004-005-007.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ZNvPjYC/Thanos-2003-2004-005-008.jpg
...But the blast only caused very minor collateral damage to their surroundings(a small circular crater beneath Thanos, is all.)


Yet in the very same series, Thanos himself(without the aid of his ship's shielding) outright tanked the close-range planetary destruction of a gas giant without skipping a beat:
https://i.ibb.co/WFbXtvp/Thanos-2003-2004-012-017.jpg https://i.ibb.co/QNHLg0d/Thanos-2003-2004-012-018.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9ck1q3P/Thanos-2003-2004-012-020.jpg


So despite a lack of collateral damage in the first scene, we can still infer that the potency of Galactus's blast would have been =/> the explosion of the gas giant that Thanos tanked a few issues later.


tl;dr
Collateral damage is not always a reliable measuring stick when it comes to gauging the potency of energy attacks and such. Makes perfect sense that higher-end reality/energy manipulators would be able to concentrate and contain their attacks so that they still retain full potency, without causing any unwanted 'bleed-over' to their surroundings(ie. collateral damage.)

I still have to read more to catch up to where this is, but this is wrong. Post Crisis Superman and Pre Crisis Superman are the same. He has mentioned events from COIE and events from many years before that time that belonged to Silver Age Superman. Golden Age is a different Superman altogether though. All 3 were from before Crisis and after.

Originally posted by Juntai
I still have to read more to catch up to where this is, but this is wrong. Post Crisis Superman and Pre Crisis Superman are the same. He has mentioned events from COIE and events from many years before that time that belonged to Silver Age Superman. Golden Age is a different Superman altogether though. All 3 were from before Crisis and after. Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):
https://i.ibb.co/Xj2yv9T/Action-Comics-975-019.jpg

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):
https://i.ibb.co/Sd6h22L/Untitled.jpg


So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.

Originally posted by Galan007
But that's not the point.

In that scene there was literally zero collateral damage to Owen's apartment, despite the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions:
https://i.ibb.co/h7sL0JY/24.jpg

So only trying to gauge the blast's potency based on the amount of collateral damage it caused would be faulty in that instance.


Here is another example...

A blast from Galactus actually harmed Thanos to an extent, despite ALL the defensive shielding of his ship being in place:
https://i.ibb.co/7N9Mjxm/Thanos-2003-2004-005-007.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ZNvPjYC/Thanos-2003-2004-005-008.jpg
...But the blast only caused very minor collateral damage to their surroundings(a small circular crater beneath Thanos, is all.)


Yet in the very same series, Thanos himself(without the aid of his ship's shielding) outright tanked the close-range planetary destruction of a gas giant without skipping a beat:
https://i.ibb.co/WFbXtvp/Thanos-2003-2004-012-017.jpg https://i.ibb.co/QNHLg0d/Thanos-2003-2004-012-018.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9ck1q3P/Thanos-2003-2004-012-020.jpg


So despite a lack of collateral damage in the first scene, we can still infer that the potency of Galactus's blast would have been =/> the explosion of the gas giant that Thanos tanked a few issues later.


tl;dr
Collateral damage is not always a reliable measuring stick when it comes to gauging the potency of energy attacks and such. Makes perfect sense that higher-end reality/energy manipulators would be able to concentrate and contain their attacks so that they still retain full potency, without causing any unwanted 'bleed-over' to their surroundings(ie. collateral damage.) I understand that, but molecule man and beyonder are two very powerful beings that are in full control of their powers, that seemed like a focused blast that was only directed at the beyonder, the beyonder himself felt the full force of that blast that's why he knew what that blast could have destroyed. By the room, the city,and not even that Galaxy being affected shows that that blast was only directed at the beyonder who felt the full brunt of that attack. The collateral damage was given by the beyonder who knew how powerful that Blast was.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):
https://i.ibb.co/Xj2yv9T/Action-Comics-975-019.jpg

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):
https://i.ibb.co/Sd6h22L/Untitled.jpg

So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.
That makes no sense.

Originally posted by JBL
I understand that, but molecule man and beyonder are two very powerful beings that are in full control of their powers, that seemed like a focused blast that was only directed at the beyonder, the beyonder himself felt the full force of that blast that's why he knew what that blast could have destroyed. By the room, the city,and not even that Galaxy being affected shows that that blast was only directed at the beyonder who felt the full brunt of that attack. The collateral damage was given by the beyonder who knew how powerful that Blast was. Indeed.

And this perfectly conveys the fact that collateral damage in and of itself(or lack thereof) isn't the end-all/be-all measuring stick when it comes to gauging the strength or potency behind an attack... Especially when a high-end matter/reality manipulator is the one projecting it.

Owen hits Beyonder with a blast that could have wiped out several billion entire dimensions, yet caused no damage at all to the room they were standing in. Despite the blast itself containing massive attack potency, there was literally no collateral damage whatsoever.

Originally posted by Astner
That makes no sense. You have just typed the textbook definition of "Superman".

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

And this perfectly conveys the fact that collateral damage in and of itself(or lack thereof) isn't the end-all/be-all measuring stick when it comes to gauging the strength or potency behind an attack... Especially when a high-end matter/reality manipulator is the one projecting it.

Owen hits Beyonder with a blast that could have wiped out several billion entire dimensions, yet caused no damage at all to the room they were standing in. Despite the blast itself containing massive attack potency, there was literally no collateral damage whatsoever.

Which means that if it wasn't concentrated, it would have destroyed billions of dimensions. Perpetua taxed herself destroying a single universe and had to recharge afterwards. Theres a huge power difference here. Then, planets were damaging her.

I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful. And how powerful do you think Perpetua/DK are?

Originally posted by MrMind
When it comes to the actual spatio-temporal dimensions and their extensions (imagination and unimagination) the 6th is the highest.

How many times do I have to say this, they are planes of existences, dc has 6 level planes of existences, marvel only has three

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11136/111367439/6996306-4445923235-69iIi.jpg Yeah, this is how I've always seen it. Where DC's dimensional scaling is concerned, it's less about the numerical value of the dimension, and more about what that dimension represents within continuity.

So just because Marvel defined the Beyond Realm as infini-dimensional back in the SWII days, that doesn't mean it scales infinitely beyond the 4th, 5th, or 6th dimensions in DC. Two different companies; two vastly different cosmologies.

Originally posted by Juntai
I still have to read more to catch up to where this is, but this is wrong. Post Crisis Superman and Pre Crisis Superman are the same. He has mentioned events from COIE and events from many years before that time that belonged to Silver Age Superman. Golden Age is a different Superman altogether though. All 3 were from before Crisis and after.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):
https://i.ibb.co/Xj2yv9T/Action-Comics-975-019.jpg

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):
https://i.ibb.co/Sd6h22L/Untitled.jpg


So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.

Originally posted by Astner
That makes no sense. And prior to that he mentioned he hadn't seen some members of LOSH since the Crisis, when the original team returned in the mid-2000s.

He's also mentioned memories from Silver Age books, his own and JLA as well.

The Infinite Crisis undid the knot in the timeline caused by COIE and everything in history became canon.


Flashpoint was a type of similar knot, until Convergence and Rebirth unravelled it.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.

In the Beyonder vs Molecule Man instance, the Beyonder appears to have absorbed the force of the blast. That's the only way to make sense of the scene.

sarkest knight looks like chaos king lol

Most Batman related characters have bland designs and only get the past due to Nostalgia of Batman himself. They look shitty, act shitty and exist solely for wanking

I might be forgetting a couple of designs but the ones that stand out in quality are Two-Face and Joker and while they look good those guys are barely characters.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, this is how I've always seen it. Where DC's dimensional scaling is concerned, it's less about the numerical value of the dimension, and more about what that dimension represents within continuity.

So just because Marvel defined the Beyond Realm as infini-dimensional back in the SWII days, that doesn't mean it scales infinitely beyond the 4th, 5th, or 6th dimensions in DC. Two different companies; two vastly different cosmologies.

I can't see how that knowledge gives anyone the go ahead to claim that the characters are more or less powerful than other near omnipotent characters. I can't see Superboy doing that to the Living Tribunal who could just snap his fingers and BFR Superboy Prime to a null dimension with no walls in sight. Just blank space.

All of the scans that Mr. Mind used can not explain away the sad performance that the Batman Who Laughs had against Superboy Prime. I mean, why did that even ever turn into a fist fight? It was pretty underwhelming to say the least. Snyder isn't very good, and the only redeeming quality backing the tepid plot was the artwork.

I'm far from convinced that Superboy Prime would ever be able to defeat TOAA, IG Thanos, Mxy, Doctor M, Beyonder, or even an adult Franklin Richards. However he beat the mess out of BWL which lowered his stock significantly.

Team 2 gets my vote for those reasons.

SBP was BFRd to a null zone with no walls before. The Phantom Zone.

Broke out of it.

Same with the Speed Force.

Yeah, because fights in Marvel never devolve into simple laser fights. Lol

Originally posted by Astner
Yes, but you still have the Beyonder's fight against Molecule Man where the multiverse was destroyed to fall back on. You don't have anything like that for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight.

Multiverse was never destroyed by Molecule Man and Beyonder's fight, it was threatened to be destroyed just like Perpetua and Darkest Knight did.

https://tinyurl.com/y94e87ew
https://tinyurl.com/y88mhyhf

Heck, darkest knight destroyed hypertime by just his presence and even got pax dei give up.

https://tinyurl.com/y9s9kcrf

What's more impressive is that the fight got attention of overvoid itself.

Prime's showing gets more ridiculous by the second.

bump

Originally posted by Galan007
But that's not the point.

In that scene there was literally zero collateral damage to Owen's apartment, despite the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions:
https://i.ibb.co/h7sL0JY/24.jpg

So only trying to gauge the blast's potency based on the amount of collateral damage it caused would be faulty in that instance.


Here is another example...

A blast from Galactus actually harmed Thanos to an extent, despite ALL the defensive shielding of his ship being in place:
https://i.ibb.co/7N9Mjxm/Thanos-2003-2004-005-007.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ZNvPjYC/Thanos-2003-2004-005-008.jpg
...But the blast only caused very minor collateral damage to their surroundings(a small circular crater beneath Thanos, is all.)


Yet in the very same series, Thanos himself(without the aid of his ship's shielding) outright tanked the close-range planetary destruction of a gas giant without skipping a beat:
https://i.ibb.co/WFbXtvp/Thanos-2003-2004-012-017.jpg https://i.ibb.co/QNHLg0d/Thanos-2003-2004-012-018.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9ck1q3P/Thanos-2003-2004-012-020.jpg


So despite a lack of collateral damage in the first scene, we can still infer that the potency of Galactus's blast would have been =/> the explosion of the gas giant that Thanos tanked a few issues later.


tl;dr
Collateral damage is not always a reliable measuring stick when it comes to gauging the potency of energy attacks and such. Makes perfect sense that higher-end reality/energy manipulators would be able to concentrate and contain their attacks so that they still retain full potency, without causing any unwanted 'bleed-over' to their surroundings(ie. collateral damage.)

Are you implying that the energy Perpetua used to destroy a Universe is greater than Universal power even though the only thing that was destroyed is a single Universe. Wouldn't the burden of proof fall on you for this?

Originally posted by abhilegend


Its outright stated.

"The battle rages on in every facet of reality"

https://tinyurl.com/y94e87ew

Still doesn't change the fact that planets were hurting them. No matter where the fight took place at, he was still getting slapped in the face by planets.

Originally posted by carver9
Still doesn't change the fact that planets were hurting them. No matter where the fight took place at, he was still getting slapped in the face by planets.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you implying that the energy Perpetua used to destroy a Universe is greater than Universal power even though the only thing that was destroyed is a single Universe. Wouldn't the burden of proof fall on you for this?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.