Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I will be posting certain thoughts and discoveries I make in this thread. Perhaps one a day. I think that it would be nice to have a place to record my religious thoughts, and to also spread the Word of God to anyone that happens to come across this.

I'm interested.

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Feel free to believe religious nonsense. But do the rest of the world a favor and keep it to yourself.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
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https://media1.giphy.com/media/O5xChSjqUIxsk/200.gif

Feel free to believe religious nonsense. But do the rest of the world a favor and keep it to yourself. Or don't open this thread, which would be the most mature approach.

It doesn't work that way. You're attempting to poison other minds.

Jesus requests that I share the Gospel with others. If you don't want to listen, that is your choice friend. Same with everyone else on KMC.

All I can ask is that you don't be an ass and act civilized.

Victree, go ahead.

If people don't like it, they don't have to come here.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
https://media1.tenor.com/images/aafb5130f5606a19b8f67c5a9853c4b8/tenor.gif

https://media1.giphy.com/media/O5xChSjqUIxsk/200.gif

Feel free to believe religious nonsense. But do the rest of the world a favor and keep it to yourself. Didn't you used to be a mod?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Jesus requests that I share the Gospel with others. If you don't want to listen, that is your choice friend. Same with everyone else on KMC.

All I can ask is that you don't be an ass and act civilized. Thanks.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Didn't you used to be a mod? Nope.

Does God Murder People?

This topic has to do with what I think to be the most difficult wall many face when considering joining Christianity. The Bible, especially the Old Testament, makes God look like some ogre in the sky that murders perhaps thousands of people.

Here are some example of God's "victims":
1. God floods the entire earth, which kills everyone on the plant besides about ten people.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-6-17/

2. God rains heavenly fire and destruction on a city known as Sodom and kills every single person within the vicinity besides about 8 people.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-19-24/

3. God wipes out an entire army by drowning them in the Red Sea.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-15-4/

There are many more examples I could get into, but all of these should be enough. So the question is: If God is so holy and righteous, why does He kill people? If he tells us to not murder, then He is a hypocrite.

This took awhile for me to understand, but soon enough, I did (after some research). Here are some reasons God can kill people and still not violate his existence:

1. When a king makes the laws, he can change and make exceptions whenever he pleases.

2. The murder God performs is very different than the form He restricts us from committing. For us, we shall not murder anyone out of the darkness and cruelty of our hearts. Well, God isn't killing them because of "inner darkness", but rather, for justice. The Bible actually has numerous verses telling the government of God's people to kill certain people and criminals. This is another point to justice.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Leviticus-24-17/

3. In the examples I showed you, God killed evil people. The Bible states that the entire city of Sodom was completely infested with murderers, sodomites, and other wicked people. The Bible states that everyone killed in the flood was evil as well. Lastly, the Bible states that the army of Egypt followed a knowingly cruel and oppressive king.

Many questions and arguments can be made from this excerpt, but the main point should be the reason that God wipes out these people.

He wipes them out so that they don't infect any of his people. He wipes them out because they completely deserve it. He has given each and every one a chance, and they knew God, but continued to live their own way.

The most important thing is to remember that, though it is beyond our understanding, God cares for all of us deeply (with a few exceptions I suppose).
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-3-16/

Whether you are a Christian or not, God cares about you all deeply. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

God bless.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Does God Murder People?

This topic has to do with what I think to be the most difficult wall many face when considering joining Christianity. The Bible, especially the Old Testament, makes God look like some ogre in the sky that murders perhaps thousands of people.

Here are some example of God's "victims":
1. God floods the entire earth, which kills everyone on the plant besides about ten people.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-6-17/

2. God rains heavenly fire and destruction on a city known as Sodom and kills every single person within the vicinity besides about 8 people.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-19-24/

3. God wipes out an entire army by drowning them in the Red Sea.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-15-4/

There are many more examples I could get into, but all of these should be enough. So the question is: If God is so holy and righteous, why does He kill people? If he tells us to not murder, then He is a hypocrite.

This took awhile for me to understand, but soon enough, I did (after some research). Here are some reasons God can kill people and still not violate his existence:

1. When a king makes the laws, he can change and make exceptions whenever he pleases.

2. The murder God performs is very different than the form He restricts us from committing. For us, we shall not murder anyone out of the darkness and cruelty of our hearts. Well, God isn't killing them because of "inner darkness", but rather, for justice. The Bible actually has numerous verses telling the government of God's people to kill certain people and criminals. This is another point to justice.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Leviticus-24-17/

3. In the examples I showed you, God killed evil people. The Bible states that the entire city of Sodom was completely infested with murderers, sodomites, and other wicked people. The Bible states that everyone killed in the flood was evil as well. Lastly, the Bible states that the army of Egypt followed a knowingly cruel and oppressive king.

Many questions and arguments can be made from this excerpt, but the main point should be the reason that God wipes out these people.

He wipes them out so that they don't infect any of his people. He wipes them out because they completely deserve it. He has given each and every one a chance, and they knew God, but continued to live their own way.

The most important thing is to remember that, though it is beyond our understanding, God cares for all of us deeply (with a few exceptions I suppose).
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-3-16/

Whether you are a Christian or not, God cares about you all deeply. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

God bless.

Um. Didn't you claim a sodomite is a homosexual, and now you are saying that sodomites are evil and it's ok God killed them for it? Just making sure I'm clear on your beliefs here.

Originally posted by truejedi
Um. Didn't you claim a sodomite is a homosexual, and now you are saying that sodomites are evil and it's ok God killed them for it? Just making sure I'm clear on your beliefs here. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2020%3A13&version=KJV

Please answer my question: are you saying homosexuals are sodomites, and it's ok if God kills them for it?

It's immoral for God to kill homosexuals for being homosexual.

Originally posted by truejedi
Please answer my question: are you saying homosexuals are sodomites, and it's ok if God kills them for it? Yes. The verse I provided would agree with this idea.

Originally posted by Neon1234
It's immoral for God to kill homosexuals for being homosexual. A lot of people think this way, though, Romans 1 tells that all fully committed homosexuals are reprobates. They have had the choice to choose God, but were rejected. I suppose homosexuality is a very big deal to God.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Yes. The verse I provided would agree with this idea.

Then your religion is evil.

Originally posted by truejedi
Then your religion is evil. I might actually create something explaining the holy standards of God.

I appreciate you reminding me to talk about that.

Originally posted by truejedi
Please answer my question: are you saying homosexuals are sodomites, and it's ok if God kills them for it?

His reluctance to answer the question directly convicts him. He knows that the command is wrong, but he also holds that the book that commands it is inerrant, so he is struggling to split the difference: to find a way to soft-peddle his agreement without contradicting his book. It is transparent and pathetic.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
His reluctance to answer the question directly convicts him. He knows that the command is wrong, but he also holds that the book that commands it is inerrant, so he is struggling to split the difference: to find a way to soft-peddle his agreement without contradicting his book. It is transparent and pathetic. Nope, in fact, the verse I answered with not only answered his question but gave a reason why.

The Holy Standards of God:

God is pure holiness. All of his ideas, solutions, and laws come from a holy source. Here are a few verses suggesting His holiness:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Samuel-2-2/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Leviticus-19-2/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-6-3/

God's laws and standards are very different than our own. But why? Well, think about it. The Lord is the pinnacle of holiness, therefore, His laws are more righteous than our own. Simply the fact that God is omniscient alone should be enough to acknowledge His superiority in regards to laws.

God's holiness trumps our own to such a degree that His laws might no make sense to us. Here are a few verse in regards to our inferior holiness:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-23/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-John-1-8/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-10-10/

Therefore, debating God's evilness is very difficult considering the fact the He knows beyond what we do.

Many people leave the Christian faith due to God's "treacherous" behavior or actions. In reality, the Bible states that, once you are a Christian, there is literally nothing that can separate you from the Lord. Therefore, those that leave the Christian faith because they disagree with God's words were never actually a Christian in the first place. They debate that somehow their own idea of holiness outclasses God's, which is purely illogical.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-8-35/

I will also go over a misconception regarding Isaiah 45:7:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-45-7/
(Credit goes to Scribble)

Though, I see how this would be confusing to the reader, it is not what it seems to be at first glance. In every other recent translation of the Bible, the word "evil" is replaced with "calamity" which refers to hardship. Hardship is not evil, and, if anything, actually is a punishment used by God. This "evil" is also considered punishment in Isaiah 47:10-11.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-47-10_47-11/

Here is another source that supports this idea:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/g-h-clark-claims-god-creates-sin/

Why did God create a world that He knew would be evil? Well, for instance, we have already established that God does not create evil, but punishment. The Bible states that God gaved us, unlike everything else of this earth, freedom to make choices.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-2-16_2-17/

So humans ultimately made the evil of this world. Though God knew of all the people going to Hell, it is actually fine. Through God's standards, which I have proved is far greater and stranger to our own, has it that all evil people will go to Hell.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-21-8/

Only through the forgiveness of Jesus Christ will one escape what we ultimately deserve.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-3-16/

I give some serious credit to Pastor John Piper for today's look on things. He did a very good job with his message, and I fully support listening to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciw9ECBu29o&feature=emb_logo

I hope anyone reading this has a God blessed day.

I do not look down on the KJV in any way, I was simply stating that the NIV and ESV have a more recognizable understanding of this verse. Evil = Calamity in either version.



I believe I quoted Him 12 times to be exact. :3

Thank you, that means a lot.

I apologize for any typos.

I was going to edit them, but I forgot about the 15 minute timer.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I do not look down on the KJV in any way, I was simply stating that the NIV and ESV have a more recognizable understanding of this verse. Evil = Calamity in either version.



I believe I quoted Him 12 times to be exact. :3

Thank you, that means a lot. It's still interesting that you only take issue with the KJV when it disagrees with your own stance. Otherwise it's fine, I guess? It doesn't matter that much, either way the line states that God created disease, misery, pestilence, and all earthly suffering, and they are acts of a being that can only be described as evil. Unless he did that by mistake, in which case he is incompetent.

God created demons, did he not? Or did they just appear? If he didn't create them, then why allow them to exist? Why is God so incompetent, if he cannot do away with demons? Or does he allow them to exist because he created them, as he is evil?

You quoted around Jesus, for the most part. Regardless of his part in the Trinity (which exists, but Sabaoth is not the father figure; that belongs to the true God of Good, beyond the realm of fleshly evil and pointless suffering), the words of Jesus do much to recontextualise and often outright refute entire segments of the OT (hence why Christians have so many cultural differences to Jews). Any Christian who does not base his faith around the specific words of the Christ are not Christians at all. Again, they are Abrahamites or Paulites; not Christians. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it's weird that the teachings of Jesus the Man are so inconsequential to modern 'Christians', compared to OT material and Paul's misinterpretations.

Anyway, apologies for replying before following up on the sources fully. I just really enjoy theological discussion and this topic has been deep in my mind for the past 14 months, with little chance to express it.

I literally just stated that I don't do that. If anything, the ESV and NIV are very much so less accurate. I included them only because they have a more present day display of the word in that context. "Evil" in the KJV context still means calamity.

God created angels. Demons created demons.

Misery and evil are entirely different things. You can make somebody miserable without being evil.


Can you give me an example of Jesus's contradiction please?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Timothy-3-16/

Never be sorry for discussing anything on this forum. I enjoy speaking of this topic anyway.

Are you by chance transgender?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Thanks.

Nope. my mistake

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
A lot of people think this way, though, Romans 1 tells that all fully committed homosexuals are reprobates. They have had the choice to choose God, but were rejected. I suppose homosexuality is a very big deal to God.

Homosexuality isn't a choice.

And it doesn't hurt anyone.

Therefore killing anyone for being homosexual is immoral.

I'd appreciate your reply.

Originally posted by Neon1234
Homosexuality isn't a choice.

And it doesn't hurt anyone.

Therefore killing anyone for being homosexual is immoral.

I'd appreciate your reply. Sure, no problem!

It is a choice.

And there isn't any evidence for it being one.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-study-finds-no-single-genetic-cause-of-same-sex-sexual-behavior/

There is no legitimate gene that makes someone "gay."

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-study-finds-no-single-genetic-cause-of-same-sex-sexual-behavior/

There is no legitimate gene that makes someone "gay."

Who argues that there is a "gene" that causes homosexuality?

And where's the one that causes heterosexuality?

Originally posted by Neon1234
Who argues that there is a "gene" that causes homosexuality?

And where's the one that causes heterosexuality? Well, if you don't argue that a gene creates homosexuality, then there is no reason to think it is a choice.

No gene proves it either, but pure instincts, the Bible (if you believe it), and just the overall way sex works.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Well, if you don't argue that a gene creates homosexuality, then there is no reason to think it is a choice.

No gene proves it either, but pure instincts, the Bible (if you believe it), and just the overall way sex works.

Glad we agree there's no gene that causes homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Originally posted by Neon1234
Glad we agree there's no gene that causes homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Me too.

I included the ESV and NIV translation as an example to make it easier for readers to understand the synonym of "evil" in the KJV version. I see why you would think I am doing what you are specifying though. Just forget I even included those two versions, it might have screwed up things.

God gave them freedom of choice.

If you believe in Jesus, than why are you trying to debate that God is unable to do something, and therefore does not exist?

God's version of a spanking.

If God is omnipotent, He can be whatever He wants to be.

If you bake a muffin, do you desire it to be as intelligent as you?

Deuteronomy 19:21 speaks of crime punishment, while Matthew 5:38-39 speaks of personal offences. For example, getting cut off on the high way by a car. Two entirely different things. I would suggest you look into the context of both verses.

He didn't.

If you believe that anyone is above God, than you are not a Christian.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Proverbs-10-12/

When were articles as viable as the Bible?

Than you are not a Christian.

Oh, you are totally fine! I have Star Wars debates all the time, and they are like three times the size of this post when it gets serious, so I am used to it.

Anyway, Romans 1 states that transgenders corrupt the Bible to say what they want it to say. Here is the reference if you would like: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201%3A23&version=KJV

Thank you for the time and effort you spent into this post.

Apologies, but I no longer want to continue this conversation. Have a nice day.

Good news of sight. The ability to make a soul jump upwards...even for a moment to be closer to God...for that split second...there is grace.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Good news of sight. The ability to make a soul jump upwards...even for a moment to be closer to God...for that split second...there is grace. Amen brother.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Jesus requests that I share the Gospel with others. If you don't want to listen, that is your choice friend. Same with everyone else on KMC.

All I can ask is that you don't be an ass and act civilized.

Of course I'll be civil.

But I'm also perfectly free to post anti-religious stuff.

I'm savvy and experienced enough to know that it's mostly pointless trying to argue the minutiae of theology with devout religious people. I know. I used to be one.


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