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No weapons and fight in a large open space.

They never really seem to adapt to h2h did they? Can someone shed light on this?
If the have no weapons or shields the Cap can take out a lot of them.

Cap can do this all day and take care of business.. The Borg have no fight skills.. They always used weapons..

There above human in strength/durability right?

Originally posted by HumbleServant
There above human in strength/durability right?

well not really.. the Borg have no strength feats.. Their durability hinges on them adapting to firepower and not h2h combat

Basically this is Cap vs ordinary slow humans with absolutely no fight skills (except 7 of 9). It all depends on his stamina.

It's often hard to accurately gauge stamina due to the nature of film editing and jump cuts, but it's worth noting that Cap has in multiple instances gone through long, varying action sequences without showing any real signs of fatigue. Though the best concrete example we have is from CA:TWS, thanks to dialogue from Falcon, where Steve ran half an hour straight at an average of 26mph without showing any notable signs of exhaustion. Now, sprinting and fighting are obviously two different things, but it's still impressive if you consider Usain Bolt at his fastest recorded (which is only for 20m of the full 100m dash, between the 60m and 80m marks) clocked 27.78mph. Cap maintained a slightly slower speed for 13 miles and wasn't even tired afterwards.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's often hard to accurately gauge stamina due to the nature of film editing and jump cuts, but it's worth noting that Cap has in multiple instances gone through long, varying action sequences without showing any real signs of fatigue. Though the best concrete example we have is from CA:TWS, thanks to dialogue from Falcon, where Steve ran half an hour straight at an average of 26mph without showing any notable signs of exhaustion. Now, sprinting and fighting are obviously two different things, but it's still impressive if you consider Usain Bolt at his fastest recorded (which is only for 20m of the full 100m dash, between the 60m and 80m marks) clocked 27.78mph. Cap maintained a slightly slower speed for 13 miles and wasn't even tired afterwards. But that doesn't help us discover his stamina towards fighting one bit. I think your goal was to show that he has superhuman stamina (which we all know from the 1st movie). And it might seem you are slickly trying to prove that he has infinite stamina with bad no limit logic. Rather, the best concrete scenes are where Cap appeared somewhat fatigued while fighting (even if it is slightly) to properly gauge his fighting stamina.

When I was in the best shape of my life playing division 1 baseball, I could run over 20mph for 90ft without being tired at all. Does that mean I can fight all day or have unlimited stamina?

Hell, I could average 10mph for 4 miles (about a 24 min run) or more without being visible tired at the end. But in a fight (especially wrestling) Ill be tired a hell of a lot quicker lol.

He wasn't fatigued after taking down 12-13 men with cattle prods in an elevator. He wasn't tired after the airport fight. He wasn't tired after running 30+mph down a highway. Wasn't tired after fighting Ultron. Wasnt tired after fighting Bucky. I can do this all day.

Quit trolling h1a8.

Nobodys claiming Cap has UNLIMITED Stamina. But its clear he has exceptional and superhuman stamina.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Quit trolling h1a8.

Nobodys claiming Cap has UNLIMITED Stamina. But its clear he has exceptional and superhuman stamina. How did I troll?
If you are not smart enough to understand the reason why he posted that then that's a shame. His post didnt help get us closer to the answer at all.

I'm pretty sure there is at least a scene or two that shows Cap being slightly fatigued after a fight. If not then this thread is over since it would be impossible to determine how many borgs Cap can beat before tiring. Any post should contribute to helping us find that answer. Not flaunt around the fact that Cap has superhuman stamina while erroneously hinting that Cap may have infinite stamina.

Originally posted by KingD19
He wasn't fatigued after taking down 12-13 men with cattle prods in an elevator. He wasn't tired after the airport fight. He wasn't tired after running 30+mph down a highway. Wasn't tired after fighting Ultron. Wasnt tired after fighting Bucky. I can do this all day. I punched someone boxing and koed them and wasn’t tired afterwards. Do I have unlimited stamina? Does what you say prove that Cap has unlimited stamina? No you say? Then stfu and stop posting irrelevant things that doesnt get us closer to the answer.

A little searching I found two scenes that show fatigue. One Cap is slightly fatigued and another Cap is moderately fatigued (he can still fight for a while longer though).

I can post at least one of the scenes if anyone wants. Or just do your own research and you should find some too (probably different than the ones I found).

Originally posted by h1a8
How did I troll?
If you are not smart enough to understand the reason why he posted that then that's a shame. His post didnt help get us closer to the answer at all.

I'm pretty sure there is at least a scene or two that shows Cap being slightly fatigued after a fight. If not then this thread is over since it would be impossible to determine how many borgs Cap can beat before tiring. Any post should contribute to helping us find that answer. Not flaunt around the fact that Cap has superhuman stamina while erroneously hinting that Cap may have infinite stamina.

I punched someone boxing and koed them and wasn’t tired afterwards. Do I have unlimited stamina? Does what you say prove that Cap has unlimited stamina? No you say? Then stfu and stop posting irrelevant things that doesnt get us closer to the answer.

You know how you trolled. Your trolling methods don't differ much from one another.

And usually no one would be tired after a one-hit KO, which is what your statement makes it sound like. "I punched someone boxing and ko'd them." Not, "after however many rounds and a hard fight, a clean shot to the chin ko'd my opponent." That makes it seem like you actually put in effort to get tired in the first place.

Also, as Thor pointed out, no one said Cap has infinite stamina, but we know he has a helluva lot of it. And all Vault did was prove that point showing he ran 26mph for 13 miles without even breaking a sweat. It's funny you're telling me to stfu when the entire board has been telling you that for years and your dumbass just doesn't listen because as per your trolling, no one's opinion matters to you but your own.

Also what I posted does get us closer to the answer. It proves Cap can do extremely strenuous things, including fighting vastly superior opponents or outspeeding cars, only to not be tired afterward. So for him to get tired he'd have to do stuff more exhausting than that.

Get good, scrub.

Originally posted by h1a8
But that doesn't help us discover his stamina towards fighting one bit. I think your goal was to show that he has superhuman stamina (which we all know from the 1st movie). And it might seem you are slickly trying to prove that he has infinite stamina with bad no limit logic. Rather, the best concrete scenes are where Cap appeared somewhat fatigued while fighting (even if it is slightly) to properly gauge his fighting stamina.

When I was in the best shape of my life playing division 1 baseball, I could run over 20mph for 90ft without being tired at all. Does that mean I can fight all day or have unlimited stamina?

Hell, I could average 10mph for 4 miles (about a 24 min run) or more without being visible tired at the end. But in a fight (especially wrestling) Ill be tired a hell of a lot quicker lol.

At no point did I state, hint or imply that Cap has infinite stamina. Of course he doesn't. Nor did I say he can fight all day. I simply brought up that example because it's the most concrete example of his stamina we have onscreen without the need for speculation and assumptions, seeing as Falcon clearly states how far he ran and over how long he did so. I even acknowledged that sprinting and fighting are not the same thing. Nice attempt at trying to strawman my position and twisting a simple observation into something sinister though. It's exactly because of this kind of behaviour that I normally don't respond to your posts.

Originally posted by KingD19
You know how you trolled. Your trolling methods don't differ much from one another.

And usually no one would be tired after a one-hit KO, which is what your statement makes it sound like. "I punched someone boxing and ko'd them." Not, "after however many rounds and a hard fight, a clean shot to the chin ko'd my opponent." That makes it seem like you actually put in effort to get tired in the first place.

Also, as Thor pointed out, no one said Cap has infinite stamina, but we know he has a helluva lot of it. And all Vault did was prove that point showing he ran 26mph for 13 miles without even breaking a sweat. It's funny you're telling me to stfu when the entire board has been telling you that for years and your dumbass just doesn't listen because as per your trolling, no one's opinion matters to you but your own.

Also what I posted does get us closer to the answer. It proves Cap can do extremely strenuous things, including fighting vastly superior opponents or outspeeding cars, only to not be tired afterward. So for him to get tired he'd have to do stuff more exhausting than that.

Get good, scrub.

Pretty much this. He often goes on about wanting people to prove or quantify things, so I thought bringing up something easily quantifiable was worth a mention. The only person who has made any comments about Cap having "infinite" or "unlimited" stamina is him. But he's often tried to attribute ill intent to my posts where there is none, so I am used to it.

h1 has always been a troll

Anyway, in terms of Borg durability, Data was apparently able to destroy a Borg drone with his bare hands. Data is crazy strong though as he's been able to do things like bend a bar of parsteel, which is supposed to be something like ten times tougher than common real-world steel.

Now before H1 accuses me of claiming it takes that much strength to destroy a Borg simply because I didn't specify that it doesn't, no, I don't think it took the upper limits of Data's strength to achieve the Borg destroying feat (just like I DO NOT believe that Cap can run/fight infinitely), but at least it does give us an upper limit baseline from where to work back from.

It does give me an idea for a possible thread though. Data arm wrestling Alara from The Orville.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
At no point did I state, hint or imply that Cap has infinite stamina. Of course he doesn't. Nor did I say he can fight all day. I simply brought up that example because it's the most concrete example of his stamina we have onscreen without the need for speculation and assumptions, seeing as Falcon clearly states how far he ran and over how long he did so. I even acknowledged that sprinting and fighting are not the same thing. Nice attempt at trying to strawman my position and twisting a simple observation into something sinister though. It's exactly because of this kind of behaviour that I normally don't respond to your posts.

You were implying a no limits fallacy. No need to lie about it now.
Otherwise, if you believe Cap doesn't have unlimited stamina then how does your post help us try to find about how many borgs Cap can take out? It was a waste of post. Rather you should post stuff that gives evidence to a limit (Cap showing slight fatigue after fighting in some scenes is a better example to use).

Originally posted by KingD19
You know how you trolled. Your trolling methods don't differ much from one another.

And usually no one would be tired after a one-hit KO, which is what your statement makes it sound like. "I punched someone boxing and ko'd them." Not, "after however many rounds and a hard fight, a clean shot to the chin ko'd my opponent." That makes it seem like you actually put in effort to get tired in the first place.

Also, as Thor pointed out, no one said Cap has infinite stamina, but we know he has a helluva lot of it. And all Vault did was prove that point showing he ran 26mph for 13 miles without even breaking a sweat. It's funny you're telling me to stfu when the entire board has been telling you that for years and your dumbass just doesn't listen because as per your trolling, no one's opinion matters to you but your own.

Also what I posted does get us closer to the answer. It proves Cap can do extremely strenuous things, including fighting vastly superior opponents or outspeeding cars, only to not be tired afterward. So for him to get tired he'd have to do stuff more exhausting than that.

Get good, scrub.

You missed both points.
First, implying that Cap has infinite stamina based off a task completed without being fatigued is faulty. I gave a counter example. I did a task and wasn't fatigued. Therefore, by the same logic I should have infinite stamina.


Second, The point of the thread is to find out how many borgs Cap can take down before he gets too tired. Posting information on how Cap has superhuman stamina and also implying that he will never get tired is both faulty and non helpful in getting us closer to the answer.

You are an idiot to believe someone has to say something directly in order to mean a message. Think of the reason why something is posted. Vault specifically said Cap wasn't tired after all that. What does that imply? If it implies that Cap has superhuman stamina (but not infinite) then you must admit his post is still trolling since it adds nothing to the discussion.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Anyway, in terms of Borg durability, Data was apparently able to destroy a Borg drone with his bare hands. Data is crazy strong though as he's been able to do things like bend a bar of parsteel, which is supposed to be something like ten times tougher than common real-world steel.

Now before H1 accuses me of claiming it takes that much strength to destroy a Borg simply because I didn't specify that it doesn't, no, I don't think it took the upper limits of Data's strength to achieve the Borg destroying feat (just like I DO NOT believe that Cap can run/fight infinitely), but at least it does give us an upper limit baseline from where to work back from.

It does give me an idea for a possible thread though. Data arm wrestling Alara from The Orville.

Tbh I claimed the borg have human level durability. If they are more durable than humans then I am mistaken.
I assumed Cap is fighting a bunch of human slow fodder and this thread is really about stamina. So scenes where Cap actually gets tired (even a little) are good to use in order to gauge how many he can defeat.

Originally posted by h1a8
You were implying a no limits fallacy. No need to lie about it now.
Otherwise, if you believe Cap doesn't have unlimited stamina then how does your post help us try to find about how many borgs Cap can take out? It was a waste of post. Rather you should post stuff that gives evidence to a limit (Cap showing slight fatigue after fighting in some scenes is a better example to use).

Nope. You're just massively biased against me, as you've been since the very beginning of our interactions in this forum. You have a history mis-attributing the opinions and statements of others to me, misrepresenting my actual statements or outright claiming I said things I never did. If you weren't so biased, you'd be able to see the point of my post instead of imagining what you want it to be. It was to show in clear terms that do not require speculation or assumptions that Steve can perform feats to a similar level of peak human athletes for a much longer period of time (13 miles versus 20 meters). To show that his superhuman stamina vastly outclasses that of regular or even peak human individuals, not to claim that he can do things indefinitely.

You're also a hypocrite. Whenever people accuse you of lying you demand they prove that you were doing so, yet you happily throw around accusations of lying at others whenever it suits you, based solely on your personal interpretation of the content of their posts, even adding in things they never said. And you do this all the time. Which, like I said, is why I normally ignore your posts, something I am going to go back to doing. So, you're going to have to find someone else to falsely accuse of things from this point on.

Originally posted by h1a8
You were implying a no limits fallacy. No need to lie about it now.
Otherwise, if you believe Cap doesn't have unlimited stamina then how does your post help us try to find about how many borgs Cap can take out? It was a waste of post. Rather you should post stuff that gives evidence to a limit (Cap showing slight fatigue after fighting in some scenes is a better example to use).



You missed both points.
First, implying that Cap has infinite stamina based off a task completed without being fatigued is faulty. I gave a counter example. I did a task and wasn't fatigued. Therefore, by the same logic I should have infinite stamina.


Second, The point of the thread is to find out how many borgs Cap can take down before he gets too tired. Posting information on how Cap has superhuman stamina and also implying that he will never get tired is both faulty and non helpful in getting us closer to the answer.

You are an idiot to believe someone has to say something directly in order to mean a message. Think of the reason why something is posted. Vault specifically said Cap wasn't tired after all that. What does that imply? If it implies that Cap has superhuman stamina (but not infinite) then you must admit his post is still trolling since it adds nothing to the discussion.

You're just blatantly lying and twisting words now. Again, Vault never said Cap had infinite stamina. Not once. Him using examples you don't like doesn't mean he said that, it means you're making shit up like you always do, liar.

I didn't miss any points, as you don't make points, not good ones anyway. I never said Cap had infinite stamina either. Go quote where I did and I'll give you a cookie, but you can't because you're lying like you always do.

You also twisted what I said. You said you punched someone and knocked them out. You didn't say you were in a fight, didn't say how many rounds, etc... You did a single action that wouldn't fatigue anyone. Pointing out just how insane his stamina is can only help us find the truth as if we know that he can do X amount of things for X amount of time without getting tired, then doing Y for Y amount of time would be easy, etc... But you have to apply logic to things like that, which you are clearly incapable of.

You don't get to assume implications and call someone a liar because of your misinterpretation. That's f*cking stupid, like you're acting. You take what they actually said, and that's what you go off. And what he said was that Cap wasn't tired after running 13 miles at 26mph. Does that mean he has infinite stamina? No, but it means he has a pretty deep pool.

Anyway, it's a super high number since Borg are human level statwise and walk like senior citizens.

The Borg physicals are actually hard to gauge. I've been looking at some examples and they're all over the place. Some instances depict them with enhanced toughness and strength while others have them behave like geriatrics after hip surgery, so it's hard to find a middleground to work from. We need a proper Star Trek expert here, which I'm certainly not, who can give us a better, more consistent reference point for them.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The Borg physicals are actually hard to gauge. I've been looking at some examples and they're all over the place. Some instances depict them with enhanced toughness and strength while others have them behave like geriatrics after hip surgery, so it's hard to find a middleground to work from. We need a proper Star Trek expert here, which I'm certainly not, who can give us a better, more consistent reference point for them.

Just ask H1, despite never having watched the show he will be able to answer your question. What he'll do is Google their feats. Pick what he thinks are the best ones and then massively exaggerate them and make up a bunch of BS numbers

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just ask H1, despite never having watched the show he will be able to answer your question. What he'll do is Google their feats. Pick what he thinks are the best ones and then massively exaggerate them and make up a bunch of BS numbers
I guessed you missed all my previous posts downplaying their durability and toughness. I outright stated that Cap will be fighting beings with human level durability in TWO SEPARATE POSTS.

You are so smart.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're just blatantly lying and twisting words now. Again, Vault never said Cap had infinite stamina. Not once. Him using examples you don't like doesn't mean he said that, it means you're making shit up like you always do, liar.

I didn't miss any points, as you don't make points, not good ones anyway. I never said Cap had infinite stamina either. Go quote where I did and I'll give you a cookie, but you can't because you're lying like you always do.

You also twisted what I said. You said you punched someone and knocked them out. You didn't say you were in a fight, didn't say how many rounds, etc... You did a single action that wouldn't fatigue anyone. Pointing out just how insane his stamina is can only help us find the truth as if we know that he can do X amount of things for X amount of time without getting tired, then doing Y for Y amount of time would be easy, etc... But you have to apply logic to things like that, which you are clearly incapable of.

You don't get to assume implications and call someone a liar because of your misinterpretation. That's f*cking stupid, like you're acting. You take what they actually said, and that's what you go off. And what he said was that Cap wasn't tired after running 13 miles at 26mph. Does that mean he has infinite stamina? No, but it means he has a pretty deep pool.

Anyway, it's a super high number since Borg are human level statwise and walk like senior citizens.

You know we are arguing two things right?
Let's be more organized.
Here's the first argument.
Performing a superhuman certain amount (finite) of tasks = unlimited stamina
Is logically equivalent to
Performing a single action = unlimited stamina

Here's the second argument.
A person doesn't have to state something literally to mean something.
That's fallacy #1
I gave evidence of why his post meant what I said. If you disagree then kindly explain (with evidence) the exact reasoning behind his post.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Nope. You're just massively biased against me, as you've been since the very beginning of our interactions in this forum. You have a history mis-attributing the opinions and statements of others to me, misrepresenting my actual statements or outright claiming I said things I never did. If you weren't so biased, you'd be able to see the point of my post instead of imagining what you want it to be. It was to show in clear terms that do not require speculation or assumptions that Steve can perform feats to a similar level of peak human athletes for a much longer period of time (13 miles versus 20 meters). To show that his superhuman stamina vastly outclasses that of regular or even peak human individuals, not to claim that he can do things indefinitely.

You're also a hypocrite. Whenever people accuse you of lying you demand they prove that you were doing so, yet you happily throw around accusations of lying at others whenever it suits you, based solely on your personal interpretation of the content of their posts, even adding in things they never said. And you do this all the time. Which, like I said, is why I normally ignore your posts, something I am going to go back to doing. So, you're going to have to find someone else to falsely accuse of things from this point on.

What is the purpose of proving that Cap has superhuman stamina when we all know this? You didn't show a limit which is what we need in a thread like this. Did you want to show off Caps feats (wank him) for all to see how magnificent he is? You do know that your post doesn't contribute to helping us get an estimated range of how many borgs right? So again, what was the purpose, if it wasn't to show Cap can take out borgs indefinitely?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The Borg physicals are actually hard to gauge. I've been looking at some examples and they're all over the place. Some instances depict them with enhanced toughness and strength while others have them behave like geriatrics after hip surgery, so it's hard to find a middleground to work from. We need a proper Star Trek expert here, which I'm certainly not, who can give us a better, more consistent reference point for them.

I would suggest asking PR, he seems to know quiet a bit about Star Trek, maybe Darth Thor aswell? All I've seen of the Borg is that they are either reasonably fast or very slow. To me the question is whether they can get their hands on Cap and how long they need to maintain contact for the injection of nanobots to take effect.

Didn't think of the nanobot injections.
It's probably best we average them some kind of way (since the are extremely variable).
Maybe halfway in durability from human to Cap? Or just human level durability? Maybe 1/10 to 1/4 as strong as Cap? Or human level strength? We need to agree on the averages though. And also Pick a speed too.

Originally posted by h1a8
I guessed you missed all my previous posts downplaying their durability and toughness. I outright stated that Cap will be fighting beings with human level durability in TWO SEPARATE POSTS.

You are so smart.

Yet here you are, trolling anyone that said anything positive about Cap.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The Borg physicals are actually hard to gauge. I've been looking at some examples and they're all over the place. Some instances depict them with enhanced toughness and strength while others have them behave like geriatrics after hip surgery, so it's hard to find a middleground to work from. We need a proper Star Trek expert here, which I'm certainly not, who can give us a better, more consistent reference point for them.


the Borg are basically normal. they have no strength feats to speak of. they are durable but up to a point. you can destroy them easily with phaser fire until they adapt to the weapon, however once they adapted to phasers characters like worf overpowered them, destroyed them with h2h combat, the butt of phaser rifles as well as weapons worf carried. they were featured in numerous episodes of star trek voyager, but it was more of the same when crew members stopped shooting them and used weapons at their disposal.

also the borg were the villains the film star trek first contact.

the borg cannot survive the vacuum of space as they were blasted off the deflector array

-Borg do have enhanced strength, but it depends on the baseline species. eg A Borg of human stock would have strength equal to around a Klingon or Vulcan, so 2-3 times human strength. There are instances of higher showings and lower showings, but these seem to be outliers.

-Borg do have enhanced durability, much of their bodies are covered in exo-plating (ie armor).

Having said that, Cap would wreck Borg drones with his strength, speed and H2H combay skills. The problem isn't a Drone beating up Cap, as Drones don't fight, the problem would be Cap being injected with Borg nanites and being assimilated** while he's fighting up close. Would only take one quick injection.


**We could argue that Cap's super-human physiology would counter the nanites, but we just don't know and considering just how advanced the Borg are, it stand to reason they'd adapt to and counter his immune system

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
also the borg were the villains the film star trek first contact.

the borg cannot survive the vacuum of space as they were blasted off the deflector array

They can survive the vacuum of space. Not that it matters here though.

D4QyCdRvXr4

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yet here you are, trolling anyone that said anything positive about Cap.
Good so you admit to looking like an ass when you could have read my earlier posts.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Borg do have enhanced strength, but it depends on the baseline species. eg A Borg of human stock would have strength equal to around a Klingon or Vulcan, so 2-3 times human strength. There are instances of higher showings and lower showings, but these seem to be outliers.

-Borg do have enhanced durability, much of their bodies are covered in exo-plating (ie armor).

Having said that, Cap would wreck Borg drones with his strength, speed and H2H combay skills. The problem isn't a Drone beating up Cap, as Drones don't fight, the problem would be Cap being injected with Borg nanites and being assimilated** while he's fighting up close. Would only take one quick injection.


**We could argue that Cap's super-human physiology would counter the nanites, but we just don't know and considering just how advanced the Borg are, it stand to reason they'd adapt to and counter his immune system


Wow. Spot on.

You know your Borg!

Originally posted by Robtard
They can survive the vacuum of space. Not that it matters here though.

D4QyCdRvXr4



ooops i meant to actually say that but i was doing a few things at once.. thanks rob

Originally posted by h1a8
Good so you admit to looking like an ass when you could have read my earlier posts.

More proof that you just make things up.

Borg did have trouble assimilating the immune system of species 8472.

Caps immune system could give the Borg similar fits.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Borg do have enhanced strength, but it depends on the baseline species. eg A Borg of human stock would have strength equal to around a Klingon or Vulcan, so 2-3 times human strength. There are instances of higher showings and lower showings, but these seem to be outliers.

-Borg do have enhanced durability, much of their bodies are covered in exo-plating (ie armor).

Having said that, Cap would wreck Borg drones with his strength, speed and H2H combay skills. The problem isn't a Drone beating up Cap, as Drones don't fight, the problem would be Cap being injected with Borg nanites and being assimilated** while he's fighting up close. Would only take one quick injection.


**We could argue that Cap's super-human physiology would counter the nanites, but we just don't know and considering just how advanced the Borg are, it stand to reason they'd adapt to and counter his immune system



I said we needed a proper Stark Trek expert to give us a better point to work from and you delivered, so thank you. It's much appreciated.

Can the Borg forcefields only adapt to energy attacks or can they adapt to physical ones as well? Because if they can it could limit the amount of Drones Steve could take out before his attacks become ineffective.

I'm no expert but I've only ever seen them adapt to energy weapons.

h2h and physical impact is usually the way to take them down face to face.

That is true right after the Borg adapted in First Contact Worf was able to take one out by hitting it with his Phaser rifle.

Man this thread went all sorts of places. Fun to read, though.
Sticking w. my original guess.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm no expert but I've only ever seen them adapt to energy weapons.

h2h and physical impact is usually the way to take them down face to face. In some instances they adapted after the first energy attack and in others, they adapted after multiple energy attacks of the same kind.
Its theoretically possible for them to adapt to h2h, but may take awhile. After all, they have forcefield projection at the least.

Like others have said, the problem is now about being injected.

My guess is that if the borg starts at closer than 15 feet and surrounds Cap then Cap can take no more than 100 borg before getting injected. It depends on how far do they start from Cap?

Large space is ambiguous. Give the exact size of the space and how far do the borg start from Cap. Are we to assume they surround Cap or they are in front of Cap?

Someone didn't read the OP, it says no weapons. that would include injecting Cap with nanoprobes that would then attack him from the inside.

-goes back and reads OP-

Confirmed!

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


I said we needed a proper Stark Trek expert to give us a better point to work from and you delivered, so thank you. It's much appreciated.

Can the Borg forcefields only adapt to energy attacks or can they adapt to physical ones as well? Because if they can it could limit the amount of Drones Steve could take out before his attacks become ineffective.

They don't adapt to physical attacks like punches, and H2H weapons. Could say they don't bother because it's probably very rare the Borg get into physical fights.



If the Borg are not allowed their nanite injectors here, then it's Cap vs a bunch of slowly walking drones who really don't fight H2H. So he'd keep taking them down and out until he physically tired and that would take some time with his enhanced stamina.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Someone didn't read the OP, it says no weapons. that would include injecting Cap with nanoprobes that would then attack him from the inside. Injection is not necessarily a weapon. It is to assimilate a host, not to destroy them.

Originally posted by h1a8
Injection is not necessarily a weapon. It is to assimilate a host, not to destroy them.

You puncture skin against someone's will and inject them with nanomachines that aggressively overwrite their genetics and turn them into a pawn.

That is an attack with a weapon. Just like if you injected someone with air in their veins or poison.

Originally posted by h1a8
Injection is not necessarily a weapon. It is to assimilate a host, not to destroy them.

They are machines used to subjugate a victim and make them into a slave. they're weapons. stop trolling

Cap injects the Borg with freedom by puncturing their faces with his fists.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Cap injects the Borg with freedom by puncturing their faces with his fists.

Just like those dang Natsees.

Originally posted by KingD19
You puncture skin against someone's will and inject them with nanomachines that aggressively overwrite their genetics and turn them into a pawn.

That is an attack with a weapon. Just like if you injected someone with air in their veins or poison.
If the thread takes this tangent ... imma poop my pants.

Originally posted by riv6672
If the thread takes this tangent ... imma poop my pants.


-gives some Depends-

I believe in you.

Originally posted by riv6672
If the thread takes this tangent ... imma poop my pants.

I wasn't gonna... Now, I have to.

So... what about a scorpion using its tail to sting and inject poison? Would that be considered a weapon if its part of their general biology? And would the same not apply to the Borg drones and their nanite injectors?

Now, let the pants pooping begin.

Originally posted by KingD19
-gives some Depends-

I believe in you.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I wasn't gonna... Now, I have to.

So... what about a scorpion using its tail to sting and inject poison? Would that be considered a weapon if its part of their general biology? And would the same not apply to the Borg drones and their nanite injectors?

Now, let the pants pooping begin.

Wolverine's claws are a part of his biology, yet in a no weapons fight they're usually disallowed

In a weaponless fight a Scorpion is not allowed to use its pincers and sting? So...like what does it do?

Is Cherry Darling allowed to use her machine gun in a no-weapons fight?

Originally posted by KingD19
You puncture skin against someone's will and inject them with nanomachines that aggressively overwrite their genetics and turn them into a pawn.

That is an attack with a weapon. Just like if you injected someone with air in their veins or poison.

I disagree. It causes no harm and not meant to destroy.
So we agree to disagree.
Its up to the OP to clarify what he meant by weapons (phasers).

Would someone's fist and feet be a weapon?
If no then how would it be different than something that is apart of someone (like a spider's fangs)?

Originally posted by h1a8
Would someone's fist and feet be a weapon?
If no then how would it be different than something that is apart of someone (like a spider's fangs)?

So, Cherry Darling can use her machine gun in a no weapons fight?

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. It causes no harm and not meant to destroy.
So we agree to disagree.
Its up to the OP to clarify what he meant by weapons (phasers).

Destroying someone's free will = no harm?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Wolverine's claws are a part of his biology, yet in a no weapons fight they're usually disallowed

Is it usually excluded because more people in those particular instances were for it being excluded rather than included? Did the OP specify in those cases? Was there an actual mod ruling? How was this decided?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Is Cherry Darling allowed to use her machine gun in a no-weapons fight?

Cherry's circumstances are unique to her. Humans don't generally have legs amputated and replaced with guns, so I don't think her situation really applies to an entire group who all posses the same characteristics. It's why I used the more general scorpion example instead. Also, if we're getting into ranged stuff, per this logic, anyone who uses ranged attacks of some kind, even if they posses them naturally, would have them stripped away in a weaponless fight as well. Otherwise, it would arguably create a double standard if, say, Havok from the X-Men movies was matched up against a Predator who normally has a Plasmacaster, for example, if he were to be allowed to use his plasma powers but the the Predator not their weapon even though it causes the same ultimate effect.

But let's say a Xenomorph is included in a weaponless fight, which of its offensive and defensive abilities would you then choose to include or exclude from the fight? Would you exclude its claws, tongue, fangs and tail under those circumstances?

I personally think it's hard to know where to draw the line here, hence why I pose the question. Or maybe we should just ask a mod, because I certainly don't have the answer.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Destroying someone's free will = no harm?
There is no free will because of time travel (backwards).
Anyway, the discussion is boiling down to attached members being weapons since that would include hands and feet

Have fun trying to convince a mod that robots that rewrite a person's brain to make them into slaves don't count as weapons.

One

Originally posted by Silent Master
Have fun trying to convince a mod that robots that rewrite a person's brain to make them into slaves don't count as weapons.

Who said anything about trying to "convince" a mod of anything? I suggested that we should maybe ask a mod for their input, as I'm personally unsure about which is the right call. Also, will you please address the other points and questions I raised?

I was responding to h1

Originally posted by Silent Master
Have fun trying to convince a mod that robots that rewrite a person's brain to make them into slaves don't count as weapons.

If a person has the ability to rewrite your brain with a touch of their hand then would that be considered a weapon?
What about if a person had the ability to ko you with a fist then would that be considered a weapon?

We are talking about injecting people with machines in order to re-write their brain and bodies. have fun convincing a mod the machines aren't weapons.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Who said anything about trying to "convince" a mod of anything? I suggested that we should maybe ask a mod for their input, as I'm personally unsure about which is the right call. Also, will you please address the other points and questions I raised?

Agree im 50/50 on it.

Can argue it both ways. Its a weapon, but also a pretty standard part of their abilities. And Not a hand held weapon they can just put down.

On the other hand though, what other weapons have the borg been known to use?

It's a weapon. It just attacks the inside of the body instead of the outside.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We are talking about injecting people with machines in order to re-write their brain and bodies. have fun convincing a mod the machines aren't weapons.

If that's your definition of a weapon then Caps hands and feet are weapons too.

Originally posted by h1a8
If that's your definition of a weapon then Caps hands and feet are weapons too.

Cap's hands and feet aren't machines that upon injection work to re-write the victims brain and the fact that you think they are, says a lot about you.

Hands and feet are natural weapoins, which are clearly allowed here. The nanite injectors are not natural.

This is a weird match then, it's Cap vs a bunch of guys who really don't fight H2H. The Borg's method is to slowly advance, grab and hold a target with their enhanced strength and then inject them. With no injectors, they're just trying to hold onto Cap in this setting. Weird.

Welp, if we have some of the more knowledgeable Star Trek posters, including one of the mods, saying it counts as a weapon, then that settles it IMO.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Welp, if we have some of the more knowledgeable Star Trek posters, including one of the mods, saying it counts as a weapon, then that settles it IMO.
I was just about to say the same thing.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap's hands and feet aren't machines that upon injection work to re-write the victims brain and the fact that you think they are, says a lot about you.

Weapons must harm right?
Is a snake's venom a weapon? The venom that upon injection work to phuck your insides up.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hands and feet are natural weapoins, which are clearly allowed here. The nanite injectors are not natural.

This is a weird match then, it's Cap vs a bunch of guys who really don't fight H2H. The Borg's method is to slowly advance, grab and hold a target with their enhanced strength and then inject them. With no injectors, they're just trying to hold onto Cap in this setting. Weird.

That's why Silent is trolling. He clearly doesn't see how dumb the thread becomes if the Borg are not allowed to use injections. Why even use Borg anyway? OP could just said "How many average adult men can Cap take at once" Obviously OP used Borg for a particular reason.

A mod has already ruled in it being a weapon because it is. You not liking it doesn't change anything.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's a weapon. It just attacks the inside of the body instead of the outside.

Since the troll known as h1 missed it.

Thanks for the info guys. To make this battle interesting (because the borg are not good in h2h) im going to allow the nanite injectors.

Also Lets say they are in a open space the size of a tennis court (120ft by 60ft) surrounded by a wall

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since the troll known as h1 missed it.

Originally posted by KingD19
A mod has already ruled in it being a weapon because it is. You not liking it doesn't change anything. Pr isnt a mod here. Hes just shedding light on the situation.
Snake venom would be a weapon too. Hands and feet are weapons too.
You can't pick and choose which definition of weapon. It all depends on what the OP wants.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Thanks for the info guys. To make this battle interesting (because the borg are not good in h2h) im going to allow the nanite injectors.

Also Lets say they are in a open space the size of a tennis court (120ft by 60ft) surrounded by a wall
Ok

Well Cap can take no more than 100 borg if they surround him and the closest ones start . His limit is somewhere around 75-100.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Thanks for the info guys. To make this battle interesting (because the borg are not good in h2h) im going to allow the nanite injectors.

Also Lets say they are in a open space the size of a tennis court (120ft by 60ft) surrounded by a wall

You can only change stips within the first few posts, you'll have to start a new thread,

Or people can debate with the change now, considering the starter wasn't aware of the Borg's fighting capabilities, or lack thereof.

No

Stop trolling, Trumper.

I'm not the one breaking the rules or insulting people.

More lies. I don't know if you're a "racist/white supremacist/Nazi", you are a Trumper supporter though; that's what "Trumper" means, a portmanteau of those two words.

Now if you're done trolling and playing the victim in this thread, have you any views on the match?

Only, I've never been a Trumper and you know that, thus you calling me that is just your way of trolling/insulting me. which I know the mods allow your group to get away with.

Honestly don't care that you want to distance yourself now that's he out, lots of Trumpers like you are doing it. Have at it.


Now, any thoughts on the thread with the updated stips so a fight could actually take place?

Seeing as I've never been a Trumper, there is no need to distance myself from anything. this is just more of your insulting/trolling. which I'm aware the mods allow your group to get away with.

Sure, sure.

Can you try and use some of that perpetual-victim-energy towards the thread/topic?

Well, if you're done with the trolling and insults the mods allow you to get away with.

Cap will beat several dozen before stamina becomes an issue.

We have a topic in this thread. Please stick to it.

I wasn't making a ruling, but I honestly don't see any argument as to how nanoprobes aren't weapons. They attack your body on a cellular level.

Just fyi though, I am a global. So I am technically a "mod here". Still not a ruling though.

Edit: Changed nanites to nanoprobes. I knew that looked wrong.

So OP is allowing injections.
The size of the room is 120ft x 60 ft

I would say Cap can take somewhere between 75-100 borg before getting injected.

When did OP mention room size? Also I see him taking out more than that. Cap is a tactical genius and with the Borg moving as slow as they do, he can easily knock them down in piles as he won't be holding back like he does against normal people making it much harder for them to actually get to him with their limited mobility. And while they're tmstepping over and around bodies, he just drops more.

Originally posted by KingD19
When did OP mention room size? Also I see him taking out more than that. Cap is a tactical genius and with the Borg moving as slow as they do, he can easily knock them down in piles as he won't be holding back like he does against normal people making it much harder for them to actually get to him with their limited mobility. And while they're tmstepping over and around bodies, he just drops more.

How many do you see him taking before it gets too much in a room that size?

OP mentioned it a few pages ago

Originally posted by h1a8
So OP is allowing injections.
The size of the room is 120ft x 60 ft

I would say Cap can take somewhere between 75-100 borg before getting injected.

Why are you still trolling? 1), it's too late for the Op to change the stipulations and 2) he said large open space, not a room

Originally posted by h1a8
I would say Cap can take somewhere between 75-100 borg before getting injected.


No Shield or weapon for Cap, and nana probe injections for the Borg, id say 100 is overkill tbh.

Also I remembered the Borg didnt always have those nanaprobe injections. Think they were introduced in First Contact IIRC. So defo an add on feature for them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why are you still trolling? 1), it's too late for the Op to change the stipulations and 2) he said large open space, not a room

Surround by a wall.

Originally posted by h1a8
Surround by a wall.

This is the OP Originally posted by HumbleServant
No weapons and fight in a large open space.

There is no mention of injectors being allowed or walls.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This is the OP

There is no mention of injectors being allowed or walls.

Falso

That was the OP, as anyone that clicks on it can verify. so, why are lying?