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Who wins here?

either team 1 solos

I guess I underestimated Thragg & Invincible

Hercules solos. Maybe even Namor can.

Two people saying completely opposite things?
Someone ia very far off

Hercules solos. Regular Namor would probably lose, but he would make them work for it.

People are giving Invincible characters way too much credit. I've read every single Invincible comic and all of their feats put them at the low herald level at best. The only outlier is Omni-Man going even with Supreme... but that's really not enough to negate all of their actual limitations: dying upon colliding with the surface of a planet, burning to death at the surface of the sun and so on.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Hercules solos. Regular Namor would probably lose, but he would make them work for it.

People are giving Invincible characters way too much credit. I've read every single Invincible comic and all of their feats put them at the low herald level at best. The only outlier is Omni-Man going even with Supreme... but that's really not enough to negate all of their actual limitations: dying upon colliding with the surface of a planet, burning to death at the surface of the sun and so on.

So true. Remove Supreme from ever meeting a Viltrumite, and you're left with possibly Wonder Man level characters. Thragg the most powerful of them, died from the heat of a star. This is not something that would kill Supreme. They were also overall too squishy to place them at High Herald levels. How could these guys get so much credit, while He-Man is stuck in the minor leagues?

Team 2 should win decisively.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Hercules solos. Regular Namor would probably lose, but he would make them work for it.

People are giving Invincible characters way too much credit. I've read every single Invincible comic and all of their feats put them at the low herald level at best. The only outlier is Omni-Man going even with Supreme... but that's really not enough to negate all of their actual limitations: dying upon colliding with the surface of a planet, burning to death at the surface of the sun and so on.

Tbf Namor would die on the surface of the Sun as well.
Would be interesting if Herc could survive slamming into a planet though.

Originally posted by Stoic
So true. Remove Supreme from ever meeting a Viltrumite, and you're left with possibly Wonder Man level characters. Thragg the most powerful of them, died from the heat of a star. This is not something that would kill Supreme. They were also overall too squishy to place them at High Herald levels. How could these guys get so much credit, while He-Man is stuck in the minor leagues?

Team 2 should win decisively. Is Wonderman above namor or equal to him or below?

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Is Wonderman above namor or equal to him or below?

Using low showings isn't the way to go Humble; that way lies madness!!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbf Namor would die on the surface of the Sun as well.
Would be interesting if Herc could survive slamming into a planet though.

The Werewolf would die if he drank a glass of Ionic Silver, Superman would die if he wore Kryptonite pajamas, etc. Fire is Namor's weakness, whereas the entire Invincible Universe is filled to the brim with characters that have no reason to be as squishy as they are.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Is Wonderman above namor or equal to him or below?

Wonder Man is below Namor in my opinion. I base it on how well they've done in similar situations.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Using low showings isn't the way to go Humble; that way lies madness!!!

What low showings? They're squishy. No way around that.

T1 rapes.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Who wins here?

Hercules is iffy. His stock varies wildly.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Werewolf would die if he drank a glass of Ionic Silver, Superman would die if he wore Kryptonite pajamas, etc. Fire is Namor's weakness, whereas the entire Invincible Universe is filled to the brim with characters that have no reason to be as squishy as they are.



Wonder Man is below Namor in my opinion. I base it on how well they've done in similar situations.

Maybe they are squishy because their opponents (i.e. each other) are just that strong?

Nobody after all says Sentry and WWH were squishy, despite them knocking seven hells out of each other.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Is Wonderman above namor or equal to him or below? Wonderman is above Namor imho.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe they are squishy because their opponents (i.e. each other) are just that strong?

Nobody after all says Sentry and WWH were squishy, despite them knocking seven hells out of each other. This is true.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Maybe they are squishy because their opponents (i.e. each other) are just that strong?

Nobody after all says Sentry and WWH were squishy, despite them knocking seven hells out of each other.

Sentry and Hulk absolutely are squishy. They are hyper durable with a very, very strong healing factor as their main defensive tool. The same applies for Invincible. And even if I'm generous enough to say that he is slightly more hyper durable than them (which he isn't), his healing factor doesn't even come close to theirs. Damage they heal in seconds, he needs months to heal. And unlike them he can't even regrow limbs. Kill them and they come back; kill Invincible and he is a goner.

(Yeah, I know that Sentry didn't come back in King in Black, but that looks like a "fuvk your immortality, I want to you in my on-going Thor run"-moment (as teased by Donny Cates).)

Superman, Thor and Hercules have actual invulnerability with minor, minor healing factors. And in my mind Invincible punching someone like Hercules over and over again would ultimately result in him shattering his own hands and his head, if he resorts to headbutting. The power level difference between those two is that vast, when Hercules is on point.

I'll keep repeating it: Invincibles GREATEST feat of power was destroying a planet. But... destroying that planet was a shared feat with two other Viltrumites and they still required additional help from Space Racers rather powerful gun, which had to destabilize the core of the planet first. If it didn't, they would have died upon impact.

Invincible isn't even close to planetary, where Hercules has performed rather well against +planetary level characters like Thor and Hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe they are squishy because their opponents (i.e. each other) are just that strong? Of course it could be that, but I don't recall any impressive feat from the viltrumites. Characters in the Invincible universe mostly scale off of each other, DBZ style.

Then again there's the planet feat in the War, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe they are squishy because their opponents (i.e. each other) are just that strong? Indeed.

For example, the only 'damage' Nolan sustained during his fight with Supreme(which Kirkman himself states is canon), was a small amount of blood flinging out of his mouth toward the beginning of the brawl. Aside from that, he appeared completely uninjured(physically) -- even soaking Supreme's HV without skipping a beat. And mind you, this was arguably the most powerful/bloodlusted Supreme that we have ever seen.

Point being: Kirkman loves writing graphic, gore-filled fights that you'd almost never see in Marvel/DC. But as demonstrated by the fight with Supreme: that doesn't mean any cl.100 brick outside the Invincible-verse can just waltz up and rip a noteworthy Viltrumite apart.

Absolute nonsense.

Omni-Man outlier in a crossover comic, where Supreme is being dumbed down for Omni-Man to have some success, does not negate all of his limitations from the Invincible series.

Also LOL @ calling Supreme in that fight the most powerful and most bloodlusted Supreme. During Supremes fight against Gladiator, Supreme was willing to destroy planets and kill innocents to take down Gladiator. That's actual bloodlust. They were still evenly matched and Gladiator knew that the fight could go on for years.
Does anyone here think that Omni-Man can withstand a planet shattering onslaught for years? LOL!

The fact still remains: Viltrumites die upon colliding with planets, burn as soon as they even touch the sky and need days up to months to regenerate lethal damage.

Hercules = high herald in the strength and durability department / mid herald overall.
Thragg and Invincible = low heralds at the very best.

I'm not saying that low heralds can't beat one-dimensional high heralds, but given how one-dimensional Viltrumites are as well and how big the difference in strength and durability is between those characters... Yeah, they aren't beating Hercules. Period.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Absolute nonsense.

Omni-Man outlier in a crossover comic, where Supreme is being dumbed down for Omni-Man to have some success, does not negate all of his limitations from the Invincible series.

Also LOL @ calling Supreme in that fight the most powerful and most bloodlusted Supreme. During Supremes fight against Gladiator, Supreme was willing to destroy planets and kill innocents to take down Gladiator. That's actual bloodlust. They were still evenly matched and Gladiator knew that the fight could go on for years.
Does anyone here think that Omni-Man can withstand a planet shattering onslaught for years? LOL!

The fact still remains: Viltrumites die upon colliding with planets, burn as soon as they even touch the sky and need days up to months to regenerate lethal damage.

Hercules = high herald in the strength and durability department / mid herald overall.
Thragg and Invincible = low heralds at the very best.

I'm not saying that low heralds can't beat one-dimensional high heralds, but given how one-dimensional Viltrumites are as well and how big the difference in strength and durability is between those characters... Yeah, they aren't beating Hercules. Period. As the Supreme fight shows, it depends on the writer and always will.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

As the Supreme fight shows, it depends on the writer and always will.

Indeed it does, but by that logic Spider-Man can beat heralds, because he once defeated Firelord.

Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules? If the writer wants it, yes.
Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules, after we take a look at where their strength and durability starts maxing out? No, because where they start maxing out, Hercules keeps on going.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Indeed it does, but by that logic Spider-Man can beat heralds, because he once defeated Firelord.

Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules? If the writer wants it, yes.
Could Thragg and Invincible defeat Hercules, after we take a look at where their strength and durability starts maxing out? No, because where they start maxing out, Hercules keeps on going. Except that one time when Thragg didn't max out. A bit like Sentry's beating Molecule Man, am I right?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

Except that one time when Thragg didn't max out. A bit like Sentry's beating Molecule Man, am I right?

When didn't Thragg max out? I was referring to him starting to burn and die as soon as Invincible dragged them into the sun. Invincible would have died as well, if he didn't get the protective armor, which gave him a couple of extra seconds.
In the Marvel and the DC universe high heralds usually handle the heat of the sun well in general. (I write in general, because the sun is sometimes used as the ultimate nullifier for anything that needs dying, no matter its power level.)

What about Sentry beating Molecule Man? Molecule Man didn't max out there. He still returned a while after being demolished by the Sentry. Sentry also went on to continue gathering feats, which further established him as a dangerous power house.

I don't understand why people are so defensive about Invincible characters. It was an enjoyable series. But the characters were clearly not on the level of mid to high heralds and sure as hell nowhere close to levels above high heralds.

Enzeru quit being a ****ing retard

Thragg is high herald on kmc tier thread, Hercules's only low herald

It's decided by people 100 times more knowledgeable than you

Stop spewing your nonsense

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
As the Supreme fight shows, it depends on the writer and always will. Exactly.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo. Agreed, the Invincible books are one of the few series where combat speed counts.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

Agreed, the Invincible books are one of the few series where combat speed counts.

Show me. The only time, when Invincible characters move fast, it's when they change clothes.

Y'all bunch of dummies, no joke. Now characters, who burn at the surface of the sun and die upon colliding with planets are considered high heralds. Absolutely hilarious. Hercules still solos.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Agreed, the Invincible books are one of the few series where combat speed counts.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Show me. The only time, when Invincible characters move fast, it's when they change clothes.

Y'all bunch of dummies, no joke. Now characters, who burn at the surface of the sun and die upon colliding with planets are considered high heralds. Absolutely hilarious. Hercules still solos.

Not true.

https://i.imgur.com/UrTN1gZ.jpg

They fight for days at high speeds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Not true.

https://i.imgur.com/UrTN1gZ.jpg

They fight for days at high speeds.

*****, please.

Every herald and their mother bullrush each other at fast speed from one point to another and continue to fight.

The funny thing about that fight is that Battle Beast is a 20 tonner:
https://i.imgur.com/Qi0zA9u.jpeg

A 20 tonner bit "high herald" Thraggs eye out and pierced his limbs with his teeth.

We always joke about how characters usually travel faster than they move. Invincible is hundreds of thousands of times slower than the speed of light. (Don't post that scan with the "FTL ship". That respect thread is a biased mess.)

What else? Invincible failed to stop an asteroid much, much, much, much, much smaller than the moon. He had to redirect it. GREY HULK (!!!) casually destroyed an asteroid twice the size of the Earth. Hyperion caught a planet bigger than Earth moving at 500.000 miles per hour. Imagine that in reverse. Invincible would have died upon touching the planet, just like he would have died alongside two other top tier Viltrumites upon colliding with a planet, if Space Racer hadn't destabilized the core of the planet first.

What else? Starts burning to a crisp upon touching the surface of a sun. Actual high heralds take sunbaths in the sun.

What else? Gets stopped cold by city-leveling beams. What else? Gets hurt and caughs blood after being caught up in one of the 50 explosions, which destroy a city.

Literally all of the highest showings for Invincible characters don't even come close to what's expected of a high herald. You people are absolutely high, if you think that Invincible characters are anywhere close the high herald level. Including Thragg, who as I said: gets bloodied left and right by a 20 tonner, burns and dies from touching the surface of the sun and gets his limbs broken from a guy, who can't slow down an asteroid much smaller than the moon.

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.

Now GTFO.

Originally posted by Enzeru

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.


so Sentry level

Originally posted by Enzeru
*****, please.

Every herald and their mother bullrush each other at fast speed from one point to another and continue to fight.

The funny thing about that fight is that Battle Beast is a 20 tonner:
https://i.imgur.com/Qi0zA9u.jpeg

A 20 tonner bit "high herald" Thraggs eye out and pierced his limbs with his teeth.

We always joke about how characters usually travel faster than they move. Invincible is hundreds of thousands of times slower than the speed of light. (Don't post that scan with the "FTL ship". That respect thread is a biased mess.)

What else? Invincible failed to stop an asteroid much, much, much, much, much smaller than the moon. He had to redirect it. GREY HULK (!!!) casually destroyed an asteroid twice the size of the Earth. Hyperion caught a planet bigger than Earth moving at 500.000 miles per hour. Imagine that in reverse. Invincible would have died upon touching the planet, just like he would have died alongside two other top tier Viltrumites upon colliding with a planet, if Space Racer hadn't destabilized the core of the planet first.

What else? Starts burning to a crisp upon touching the surface of a sun. Actual high heralds take sunbaths in the sun.

What else? Gets stopped cold by city-leveling beams. What else? Gets hurt and caughs blood after being caught up in one of the 50 explosions, which destroy a city.

Literally all of the highest showings for Invincible characters don't even come close to what's expected of a high herald. You people are absolutely high, if you think that Invincible characters are anywhere close the high herald level. Including Thragg, who as I said: gets bloodied left and right by a 20 tonner, burns and dies from touching the surface of the sun and gets his limbs broken from a guy, who can't slow down an asteroid much smaller than the moon.

Invincible is a weaker Superboy.

Now GTFO.
Again with the aggressiveness. Maybe it works on abhi? But I'm not like other girls.

Handbooks are one thing, comic showings are another. Besides, what does his strength have to do with things (even IF correct)? What strength class is Barry Allen? Wally? Dr Strange?

But I must note that GREY HULK needed help to destroy that asteroid. But that's by the by.

Your original point was that Invincible verse characters only changed their clothes at high speed. I post that they actually fight at high speed, (with one character actually in this thread) and your rebuttal is....bullrushing? Travelling?

Interesting to point out as well, of Invincible is a weaker Superboy, Battle Beast (the erm 20 tonner) has beaten him handily before.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Handbooks are one thing, comic showings are another. Indeed.

The Handbook was published back in 2006. BB's 'all-out' fight with Thragg didn't happen until 2014. Clearly BB's strength was intended to have massively increased over the years... Which is the case with pretty much every character in the Invincible-verse.

For what it's worth, the Handbook also states "at least" 20 tons... So it doesn't even firmly cap him at that level.

The handbook didn't even have an entry for Thragg, lol.

And said the uppermost limits of Mark's strength were unknown.

And that Vilrumnites could be as strong as the story required.

I'd be laughed at if I tried using those statements, though

Wow that handbook entry is eye opening. It just doesn't comport well with how battlebeast was portrayed.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow that handbook entry is eye opening. It just doesn't comport well with how battlebeast was portrayed.



Mark was given as a 30 tonner at the time, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Kirkman writes a f*ck ton of gore in his books. That's his go-to style(look at anything he's ever written.) So naturally when he writes a battle, bones are going to snap, faces will implode, anuses shall be prolapsed, etc. Some people take that as Viltrumites being "squishy" by default.

But as the canon Supreme fight demonstrates: "squishy" is a relative term. If someone like Supreme couldn't bloody Nolan, then I wouldn't assume that Herc or Namor could just waltz up and snap them in half(especially when Thragg > Invincible ~/> Nolan.) Granted, that showing isn't the end-all/be-all, but it IS pretty much the only time a Viltrumite has fought a noteworthy character 'outside' of the Invincible-verse... So I do think it's an important showing to consider from that perspective.

There's also speed to factor in: the Viltrumites here aren't exactly slow, so brick types even hitting them in the first place is questionable, imo. It's too bad Image is not that popular to get fanboys and argue stuff.

One would imagine a sufficiently motivated one would argue the reverse, and the fact that somebody like Conquest/Thragg can punch through people like Omni Man, while somebody like Juggernaut/Hulk do not punch through Thing as evidence of how much more powerful they are.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Mark was given as a 30 tonner at the time, lol. At the time Kirkland was doing Spiderman at high school Invincible so would fit tbh. Mark clearly is many times more powerful now.

Imagine arguing Invincible characters dying in the sun as a bad feat when Hercules gets third degree burns from Sauron's flames and Mangog dies in the sun.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow that handbook entry is eye opening. It just doesn't comport well with how battlebeast was portrayed. Because it was published nearly a decade before we saw BB go all-out against Thragg.

Pretty much every noteworthy character from the Invincible-verse leveled up massively over the years(as evident by the strength ratings many of them were given back then, lol.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Because it was published nearly a decade before we saw BB go all-out against Thragg.

Pretty much every noteworthy character from the Invincible-verse leveled up massively over the years(as evident by the strength ratings many of them were given back then, lol.)

are you ready for the new invincible cartoon?

Galan's nipples actually pierced his monitor the first time he read the news and they haven't gotten soft since.

#GalanFact

https://i.imgur.com/oqDHjtt.gif

Anyone check out the latest X-Force comic? Namor's pretty badass these days. I mean he has the power to shoot off lightning with his trident, and as we know he is also a water manipulator. Imagine what he could do with lightning and water? You guys should check out how much hotter lightning is in comparison to the sun.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or how Cap/Wolverine can restrain Namor.

But that's really how things are in the different universes. Kirkman does not give 2 sh!ts about the status quo - if Battle Beast dies, he dies. OTOH, Namor and Herc still have to interact with the general Marvel universe, so they can't be written too highly.

Of course, that's just PIS - but if Marvel writers weren't constrained by continuity, I reckon fights in Marvel (and DC etc) would be just as gory.

You can kind of see some of this in what Ifs/elseworlds where there's no concern for subsequent comics.

Bump

Good fight. Thragg might be too much here.
I'm not sure who wins though

Well, I've changed my mind. T1 probably takes it if they go balls to the wall, which they most likely will.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Well, I've changed my mind. T1 probably takes it if they go balls to the wall, which they most likely will.

What caused you to change your mind?

Originally posted by Delta1938
What caused you to change your mind? Well, I was fresh off of reading Invincible and couldn't get past all the times a character would get goried by a another that should be roughly on his same level and etc and the lack of clearly defined feats.

Now I scale all of the post war Viltrumite off of the planet feat, which even with context wouldn't be too out of place for upper end low-heralds. And Thragg/Allen/EoS Mark are vastly above those levels.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Well, I was fresh off of reading Invincible and couldn't get past all the times a character would get goried by a another that should be roughly on his same level and etc and the lack of clearly defined feats.

Now I scale all of the post war Viltrumite off of the planet feat, which even with context wouldn't be too out of place for upper end low-heralds. And Thragg/Allen/EoS Mark are vastly above those levels.


Hope they show the Allen/Mark eos fight proper. The way they did it in comic leaves too many questions (Like whether Mark had help, or whether Allen got weaker with age, or why they were in formal wear.. Allen had a tux didn't he?)

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Well, I was fresh off of reading Invincible and couldn't get past all the times a character would get goried by a another that should be roughly on his same level and etc and the lack of clearly defined feats.

Now I scale all of the post war Viltrumite off of the planet feat, which even with context wouldn't be too out of place for upper end low-heralds. And Thragg/Allen/EoS Mark are vastly above those levels.

They have bigger feats than the planet destruction now?

Lol... Invincible characters are not squishy. The writer js using common sense. Fighting your superior results in your head getting lopped off. Marvel and DC comics should be like this. Juggernaut fighting Colossus, Juggernaut should be able to punch a hole clean through him. Prime fighting Superboy, Prime should be able to easily rip him apart. Just because OMNI man hurt Mark doesn't mean Spiderman could replicate that showing.

Originally posted by cdtm
Hope they show the Allen/Mark eos fight proper. The way they did it in comic leaves too many questions (Like whether Mark had help, or whether Allen got weaker with age, or why they were in formal wear.. Allen had a tux didn't he?) Given the context, I'd say it was absolutely intended to be a proper fight.

All the good deeds that Mark and his new Viltrumite Ascendancy were preforming across the universe was rendering Allen's Coalition of Planets completely moot... Mark was essentially doing such a good job protecting the universe that its citizens no longer saw a need for the CoP to even exist. So their 'fight' was basically Allen trying to force Mark to stop being such an effective protector, so the Coalition didn't outright collapse... And the heavy implication is that Mark throttled Allen handily.

The only real "?" is if Allen had inextricably weakened by that point(their fight took place some 500 years in the future, after all.) However, we don't really have any legitimate reason to assume he was weaker... But we DO know that Mark had undoubtedly become much stronger(that's how Viltrumite genealogy works.) So EoS Mark being >> Allen makes perfect sense, imo, given that he was already approaching Thragg-level centuries earlier. /shrug

Hercules gets thrown into space and then Namor gets bodied by Mark and Thragg.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given the context, I'd say it was absolutely intended to be a proper fight.

All the good deeds that Mark and his new Viltrumite Ascendancy were preforming across the universe was rendering Allen's Coalition of Planets completely moot... Mark was essentially doing such a good job protecting the universe that its citizens no longer saw a need for the CoP to even exist. So their 'fight' was basically Allen trying to force Mark to stop being such an effective protector, so the Coalition didn't outright collapse... And the heavy implication is that Mark throttled Allen handily.

The only real "?" is if Allen had inextricably weakened by that point(their fight took place some 500 years in the future, after all.) However, we don't really have any legitimate reason to assume he was weaker... But we DO know that Mark had undoubtedly become much stronger(that's how Viltrumite genealogy works.) So EoS Mark being >> Allen makes perfect sense, imo, given that he was already approaching Thragg-level centuries earlier. /shrug

Allen did look pretty bad, what with the facial cracks.

Was pretty hard seeing what Allen came to, he used to be an awesome character. Poor guy never should have been leader, he sucked at it.

We are just taking the Supreme and running with it as the standard now?

How many times have people say one fight like that is not the norm, but the minority? And since it happens just once, it has to be an outlier?

Originally posted by SquallX
We are just taking the Supreme and running with it as the standard now?

How many times have people say one fight like that is not the norm, but the minority? And since it happens just once, it has to be an outlier? those people have pretty consistently been wrong. A weaker alternate reality Mark has knocked out Pitt (who has explicitly been shown to be a peer of Savage Hulk). Now that I think about it, in his crossover with Superman, Savage dragon was tossing around the Female Furies and even helped knock out Kalibak. Meanwhile Dragon is consistently shown to be much weaker than Invincible. Invincible also shrugged of punches from Solarman (who according to Larsen, was made to be a peer of Superman).

Yeah, I mean, he's still just a dude.

IMO, we only trot that scene out if we want to have a scan war with high end feats.

Now, his fight against an Eclipse possessed WW, however.......

Originally posted by SquallX
We are just taking the Supreme and running with it as the standard now?

How many times have people say one fight like that is not the norm, but the minority? And since it happens just once, it has to be an outlier?

Originally posted by SquallX
We are just taking the Supreme and running with it as the standard now?

How many times have people say one fight like that is not the norm, but the minority? And since it happens just once, it has to be an outlier?

Supreme wasn't anything special anyways. At least Liefeld "Mean Supreme" was not. I read through the entire Image run, and he spent the majority of it depowered and relying on Thor's hammer, losing fights left and right. And had very few actual feats when he had his powers.


Allen Moore's pre crisis Superman ripoff may be a different story. But that isn't who Omni-Man or Gladiator fought.

Can you post scans of Supreme using Thors hammer?

Originally posted by SquallX
We are just taking the Supreme and running with it as the standard now?

How many times have people say one fight like that is not the norm, but the minority? And since it happens just once, it has to be an outlier? It's a high-end feat for Nolan, but I wouldn't call it an outlier.

T1.

Thragg stacks Herc and Namor on top of each other and rips them in half.