Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

hand to hand battle only, full rest inbetween fight
5 rounds, mma rules, in the octagon

1. Nick Fury
2. Batwoman
3. Huntress
4. Black Widow
5. Bullseye
6. Daredevil
7. Kingpin
8. Batman
9. Captain America
10. Ninjak
11. Taskmaster
12. Iron Fist

Starts having serious trouble at 6 and beyond.


Probably stops at 11.

He chi amps as well right?

I'd say stops at 7, using Kingpin in his classic "DD breaks his hands punching him" days.

Modern Matt hurt his hand when KO'ing a weakened, mindwiped Fisk, too.

Then you have KP's showings against the Wizard, Bushwacker or Tombstone.

Kingpin continues to be impressive.

Plus that Doombot in Marvel Knights.

Yeah I say he stops at 7

Stops at 8

shang chi beats batman h2h

Originally posted by MrMind
shang chi beats batman h2h Nawwwwww......

Why not?

Marvel easily has better martial artists than DC --- more street characters who have more appearances -- and Shang-Chi is one of the best.

So is Batman.

No.

Got schooled by Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva and others.

Marvel streets dominate DC streets the same way DC heralds dominate Marvel heralds.

I disagree

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Actually, I've done it numerous times.

Marvel has larger, more diverse street level rooster than DC does, with a longer history and more prestige. Maybe "more prestige" isn't exactly right, but Marvel has managed to keep the entirety their character's history intact since their inception. Sure they have isolated retcons from time to time, but even before the Nu52-boot DC had decades worth of continuity that simply didn't happen. Hundreds, thousands appearances of characters that no longer mattered.

Street level characters in Marvel get more play than they do in DC; and those characters have more appearances than their DC counter parts do. Lets take a look at the numbers. These are from comicvine, they include a bunch of trades, and foreign language reprints in their numbering, so they aren't 100% accurate but close enough for our purposes.

Marvel Street Level Appearances:

Spider-man: 9675
Wolverine: 9789
Captain America: 6870
Daredevil: 2889
Black Panther: 1565
Deadpool 1248
Punisher: 1778
Iron Fist: 1381
Hawkeye: 2903
Winter Soldier: 1306
Black Widow: 1970
Elektra: 661
Nick Fury: 2837
Shang-Chi: 477
Moon Knight: 763
Gambit: 2936
Psylock: 2687

Total: 51735

DC Street Level Appearances:

Batman: 10097
Catwoman: 1339
Nightwing: 4322
Tim Drake: 1818
Jason Todd: 510
Lady Shiva: 141
Cassandra Cain: 347
Green Arrow: 2267
Barbra Gordon: 1723
Deathstroke: 621
Black Canary: 1882
Katana: 412
Huntress: 632
Arsenal: 1274
Wildcat: 894
Bronze Tiger: 192
Richard Dragon: 67

Total: 28538

That's a pretty significant difference between the two, and I was being generous to DC with some of those character inclusions. I left some notable Marvels off the list and I could start adding freaking White Tiger, The Daughters of the Dragon or Mockingbird based on the fame and quality of some of those DC "namesakes". Again - the Marvel characters don't have their continuity segmented by various large scale reboots. Ignoring alt realities and what ifs, all of those appearances for the Marvel characters still matter. The dearth of comic time DC streets get compared to their Marvel counter parts is big reason why DC streets don't stack up to Marvels... but it isn't the biggest.

The majority of Marvel's streets are super powered in some manner or another and their feats reflect that when compared side by side to their DC counter parts. Each character is also given the opportunity to shine independent of one another. No writer is worrying how what Captain America does might reflect on Punisher, or how Daredevil relates to Shang-Chi they are there own characters, their on franchises with no intrinsic tie to one another for the most part. In DC 90% of streets are part of the Batfamily.

DC's streets largely consists of Batman and a bunch Batman underlings and side characters. He is the anchor and focal point of the DC street level scene and ever other character is shackled to him in how they operate and what sort of feats the can accomplish. A Batman-governor regulating everyone's abilities, keeping everyone in line so the poster boy looks good. Marvel doesn't have that, and if it did, it would be Spider-man... which is obviously a much higher bar to work under.

Marvel's streets have more feats. They have better feats. Why? Because they have more appearances. More of their appearances are in continuity. The majoirty of them have superhuman abilities and physical attributes that allows them to operate on a higher level than the characters in DC do.

DC is the Batman show. In Marvel characters are allowed to exist on their own merit, and they do. It's all pretty elementary. Stronger, Faster, More skilled characters with more appearances. I mean... do the math.

People want to pretend that there is some sort of parity between the two companies on every level. There isn't. Why would there be? They have different goals and are run very differently. Marvel's street level roster, is deeper, more diverse, more powerful and most of all marketed more. That's not a bias, THAT'S AN OBJECTIVE FACT that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who even the SLIGHTEST interest in the comic medium. Why would DC streets be the equal of Marvels? It's mathematically improbable and - clearly - categorically untrue. Marvel publishes more street level comics than DC does, featuring more characters than DC does, those characters are more powerful than DC's characters are, and their character's histories are rebooted every two decades. I f@cking wonder, which company has the stronger street level characters? Who could it be? What a f@cking mystery!

Jesus Christ.

Feel free to try and rebut anything I've said.

I'll rebut srank's entire post.

It's all canon now. Silver Age, Golden Age, it all matters now.

the amping gets him by matt for a slight majority, maybe. doubt he takes out fisk for the majority though.

I thought that Danny and Shang were pretty much equals?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/7/73849/1353571-shang_chi_respect.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
I thought that Danny and Shang were pretty much equals?

for all intents and purposes they are, as are many of the high streets who routinely battle each other to stalemates or who show only the most minor differences in skill levels. you have to really dig deep and compare like opponents to try and come up with any significant differences among the best street guys. in either company. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
for all intents and purposes they are, as are many of the high streets who routinely battle each other to stalemates or who show only the most minor differences in skill levels. you have to really dig deep and compare like opponents to try and come up with any significant differences among the best street guys. in either company. /shrug

https://i.imgur.com/Yc2udDC.jpg

Two statements stand out to me - firstly, that Steel Serpent isn't better than Shang....and secondly, IF says Serpent is equal to him.

A bit ABC, but hey....

Nice find. Completely forgot about that.

Then there is this:

https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IRONFIST-6.jpg?q=35&w=864&h=1311&fit=crop&dpr=1.5

"The one person in the world who can probably take me down in a kung fu battle..."


And let's not forget about this:

https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.imgur.com/Yc2udDC.jpg

Two statements stand out to me - firstly, that Steel Serpent isn't better than Shang....and secondly, IF says Serpent is equal to him.

A bit ABC, but hey....


Never really said Shang is better though. Only that Davos isn't better then Shang.


Doesn't make him worse, either.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Not being better then someone doesn't automatically make you worse. Shang, Danny, and Davos are likely too close to call.

https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg

https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg

I thought we didn't care what Iron Fist thinks/says/does?

Originally posted by cdtm
Not being better then someone doesn't automatically make you worse. Shang, Danny, and Davos are likely too close to call.

So he and Davos are equal, but Shang is better than Davos....yes that automatically makes you worse

Originally posted by -Pr-
I thought we didn't care what Iron Fist thinks/says/does?

It's not just Fist.

Black Panther agrees, too.

Also, given how extremely arrogant and butthurt Rand can be, it's the best proof we can get.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/7/73849/1353571-shang_chi_respect.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So he and Davos are equal, but Shang is better than Davos....yes that automatically makes you worse

Except he never once called Shang better then him, or Davos.

He called Davos better than anyone. But not better than Shang.

Unless you're saying he's saying he's equal to Davos? But we then have Stilt's other scans.

Shang Chi is Martian Manhunter of streets, all hype and no feats worth a damn.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Shang Chi is Martian Manhunter of streets, all hype and no feats worth a damn.

Their relative performances against Hiroim say otherwise....

Originally posted by abhilegend
Shang Chi is Martian Manhunter of streets, all hype and no feats worth a damn.

Nah, he does have feats. Just not too many appearances.


Manhunter's problem is not the lack of feats per se --- the anti-feats are his main problem.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Their relative performances against Hiroim say otherwise....

You mean when all Shang could manage is a block, while Danny drew a shout of pain?




This logic works both ways. Say, their relative performance's against The Cat. Or against the electric suit wearing guy.

Better yet, Wolverine.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nah, he does have feats. Just not too many appearances.


Manhunter's problem is not the lack of feats per se --- the anti-feats are his main problem.
He is just unimpressive compared to his hype.

Well if anything, Shang stops too low on that list in terms of the opinions. He potentially clears this

Originally posted by Stoic
Well if anything, Shang stops too low on that list in terms of the opinions. He potentially clears this




Fisk is a ringer. Matt, Shang, and Danny are very close analogies by deed (Fights, as opposed to the comments being referenced), while Fisk was a mutant bring masquerading as a human.

Steve Rogers alone should do a lot of damage, if he doesn't stop him. (Does a full rest mend broken ribs?)

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's not just Fist.

Black Panther agrees, too.

Like you'd listen to what a black man says.

#doubt.

T'challa's just salty because Danny Fisted him so hard he gave him an inoperable brain aneurysm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/black-panther-brain-aneurysm-ignored/amp/

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nice find. Completely forgot about that.

Then there is this:

https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IRONFIST-6.jpg?q=35&w=864&h=1311&fit=crop&dpr=1.5

"The one person in the world who can probably take me down in a kung fu battle..."


And let's not forget about this:

https://articles-img.sftcdn.net/image/upload/q_auto:eco/v1563978252/Iron_fist_best_mat5ba.jpg


I don't agree with Abhi on Martian Manhunter, but I do agree with his logic.

Daxamites are said to be more powerful then Superman all the time. No one believes it.

The fact is, Danny, Iron Fist, and Matt all have good showings against one another. All three stalemated against each other.

Indirectly, you can find high ends and low ends for anyone. Danny defeated Shangs arch nemesis, The Cat, who Shang can only stalemate over three fights. Danny actually held his own with Logan, while Shang was squashed. Shang arguably looked worse against Gorgon, because he fell while Danny took his attacks.

They're peers. If Shang is the best, it sure never plays out in any of their fights, either directly or indirectly.

^ drugs are bad for you.

Originally posted by Stoic
^ drugs are bad for you.

How do you figure? DS and Stilt are bringing in statements of Shang > Iron Fist, and I'm pointing out the direct and indirect evidence no more supports this, them they do that Daxamites > Superman.

Because Daxamites are not > Superman. Any time Superman fights a Daxamite, Superman wins.

Any time Shang fights Iron Fist, they stalemate.

Danny has done better vs opponents Shang has struggled against, and vice versa.

somebody posts Shangchi vs Gorgon

Originally posted by -Pr-
Like you'd listen to what a black man says.

#doubt.

I am not entierly sure if he can make it past Ninjak, but he stops at Taskmaster if he can.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Like you'd listen to what a black man says.

#doubt. Stilt only listens to them when they ask him not to move and give the wallet.

That wasn't a wallet in my pocket...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Shang Chi is Martian Manhunter of streets, all hype and no feats worth a damn.

https://i.ibb.co/sJs7fnd/4VWu0dg.jpg https://i.ibb.co/JF33RYV/KTB8JaR.jpg https://i.ibb.co/zXvzy56/Y6MAFvG.jpg https://i.ibb.co/WxBztwm/hLtaHJl.jpg https://i.ibb.co/h2dWnrQ/rvC639N.jpg https://i.ibb.co/8gxPdFn/X6SCipl.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4JW03DW/VbAc9g0.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6N3GGkv/pjOX2nB.jpg https://i.ibb.co/hgWhZRW/vjARl3s.jpg https://i.ibb.co/NYtDbPr/FtIxHnB.jpg https://i.ibb.co/3RwB65s/IP451Iy.jpg https://i.ibb.co/gwVkfp9/b8PUbrP.jpg https://i.ibb.co/0M9FX2Q/v4bIX9J.jpg https://i.ibb.co/sbLz9mW/Wz3iwgn.jpg

We've all seen it.


Shang did great, compared to Logan and Elektra.


He also had to use a lot of misdirection and stealth, and folded fast when attacked.


Compare to Iron Fist:


https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2254332-fistvswolverine.jpg


Even exchange. Danny outright tanks attacks, and counters.

Danny didn't "tank attacks".

He took a single kick and almost got killed in the end, if not for Daredevil.

Shang had Starktech and fought smart from the start... and still lost.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Danny didn't "tank attacks".

He took a single kick and almost got killed in the end, if not for Daredevil.

Shang had Starktech and fought smart from the start... and still lost.

That's Leo talking. Danny could easily dodge that, block it, counter it. Good position for an uppercut.

Plus he has the Iron Fist, so why not shatter the blades? I believe they were not murasama.


He took a good kick. Who else took one like that, and kept fighting. (Back then, recent events don't count.)


Not Shang. Not Elektra.

Good position to die or lose an arm, at best.

Considering how Gorgon was holding Danny's arm and just needed to let go of it to cut clean through it, with no effort, with claws capable of piercing Skaar's hide.

Actually, both Shang and Elektra took a hardcore beating before they were beaten.

Shang did better against Wolvie than Danny!

Originally posted by cdtm
That's Leo talking.

Originally posted by MrMind

https://i.ibb.co/6N3GGkv/pjOX2nB.jpg https://i.ibb.co/hgWhZRW/vjARl3s.jpg https://i.ibb.co/NYtDbPr/FtIxHnB.jpg https://i.ibb.co/3RwB65s/IP451Iy.jpg https://i.ibb.co/gwVkfp9/b8PUbrP.jpg https://i.ibb.co/0M9FX2Q/v4bIX9J.jpg https://i.ibb.co/sbLz9mW/Wz3iwgn.jpg
What's that supposed to prove?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Danny didn't "tank attacks".

He took a single kick and almost got killed in the end, if not for Daredevil.

Shang had Starktech and fought smart from the start... and still lost.

Can't really be sure he grabbed the arm from a silhouette. The claws would get in the way, you'd think.


Even if so, that would mobilize Gorgon's hand too. Meaning Danny can freely defend the remaining claw.


An little Iron Fist chi ampage, and he could block the claws directly if he wanted to.

Honestly? Shang would probably have trouble beating Tim Drake in hand to hand, he'd have no chance against Dick or Bruce or even Jason

Shang the Wang simply isn't good enough.

Also that SWankMissingDildo guy's argument is stupid

It doesn't matter how many appearances a character has, its the quality of the appearances.

Marvel street levelers = quantity

DC street levelers = quality

Quality always beats quantity.

Lets be real, Bruce would slap Captain America (Steve) around like the punk bi tch that he is. The only argument Cap fanboys have is calling "PIS" on everything Batman does while using examples of Cap beating up Hulk lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What's that supposed to prove?

that he can hang with the top of the food chains