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Weakest versions of all, who wins?

Im going to say Captain Marvel. No real reason as I dont know what any of them did back then

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im going to say Captain Marvel. No real reason as I dont know what any of them did back then

Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor. The reason why Superman's powers were increased in the 40s was to compete with whiz comics that was selling near a million copies an issue or above. By 42 GA Supes was virtually SA level as a result.

Originally posted by beatboks
Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor. The reason why Superman's powers were increased in the 40s was to compete with whiz comics that was selling near a million copies an issue or above. By 42 GA Supes was virtually SA level as a result.
No, Captain Marvel did not originate at much higher power level.

Beatboks remembers 1940 vividly as if it were yesterday and he was once more a sprightly young lad of 15.

Lmfaooooo

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, Captain Marvel did not originate at much higher power level.

Oh please, 1938 superman was literally as powerful as the tag lines at peak.

Faster than a speeding bullet (sonic fast not light speed)
More powerful than a locomotive (strong enough to push against a train engine to stop it, though normally he lifted cars etc)
Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. (He couldn't fly only leap like Hulk).
He was bullet proof but a busting shell could hurt him.

In action comics 1 supes lifted a car, runs to match a cars speed and leapt over it. He leapt up a building and then ran on telegraph wires. In action comics 2 he is pushed overboard by thigs and swims to catch the and pass the steamer. He runs ALMOST faster than the eye can follow (but is seen doing it)

The thread specifies 1938 Superman and in 38 he wasn't as powerful as captain Marvel was on debut.

By issue 3 of Whiz Comics Capt Marvel was casually hurling tanks thru the air, he could fly from day dot, and he could fly across country. In issue 5 he flew from one city to another whiping out a national crime ring.

Superman's power level after Capt Marvel debuted and was outselling him soon increased to compensate and by mid 1940 Supes could lift ocean liners, and fly at light speed and had nothing to fear from a busting shell, by 42 he was full SA ridiculous levels.

Superman on the same year as Capt Marvel is more powerful but that isn't what the OP is asking now is it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Beatboks remembers 1940 vividly as if it were yesterday and he was once more a sprightly young lad of 15.

C'mon DS, I'm not That freakin old.

I did buy a lot of old comics as a kid because my only access to comics back then was a book exchange that sold a lot of second hand books and comics. So I started out reading comics a lot older than me. That and my dad's phantom comics. Down under the Phantom was THE most popular comic by far (m nold man and all his friends were into it, and there wasn't a single newspaper in the country that didn't include a Phantom comic strip)so on any given week you would see at least 8 to 10 available issues available to buy in any newsagent

Originally posted by beatboks
Oh please, 1938 superman was literally as powerful as the tag lines at peak.

Uh-huh.



By Action Comics 5 (Oct 1938), Superman was running as fast as light and destroying mountain peaks.

https://i.postimg.cc/bsxbPcXf/RCO006.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/xX9mTxYJ/RCO010.jpg



Funny how you are citing issue 1&2 but not beyond.



Nope, Captain Marvel did not fly from debut, he was only leaping just like Superman, he wasn't as fast as light or destroy mountains till years later.

Originally posted by abhilegend
MYTH:
Captain marvel was created with flight instead of jumping, so he isn't a complete superman rip-off.
Just like the original Superman who inspired him:

Whiz Comics #2 (Millenium print)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel01.jpg_

WC #3

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel02.jpg

WC #4

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel03.jpg

There was no usage of the word "fly" during his early years. Instead, "leap" was the ability used.

For those who don't know, cap started flying in Whiz comics 5.



Nope.

Here's a chronology of Captain Marvel's feats in strength.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeff_Harrisons/comments/7zup1e/respect_captain_marvel_earth_s/



And for Speed.



So he is lightspeed by Whiz Comics 10 and punches with strength of a running train by Captain Marvel Adventures 3. Yet somehow he is more powerful than Superman who exceeded such feats by Action Comics 5.

Right!!

So captain Marvel could only jump, sure he could. That's why in issue 5 of Whiz comics (his 4th appearance) when he takes to the sky he is leaving for another city.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wOqU7BUJapg/VxdW3-rirRI/AAAAAAAAPi8/kAUZYf7VHdgCZJV-1H4o2KXlHeYTbDCWQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO010.jpg

So 38 Superman cab leap a building white 40 Cap can leap part of a continent I guess.

power progression was faster given Supes had 8 appearances by issue 5 of action (Superman 1,2 and 3 were before action 5)

Same issue next page he did Chicago and California

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I-yEDuSSGFQ/VxdW4BuDi3I/AAAAAAAAPi8/2WzZ96rMSS8PONDL571D-fs_ULU61nXLwCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

That image of a plane flying alongside him isn't a representation of him flying now is it

That's some ancient shit

These are from Whiz comics 7

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w9OAGnj5eVQ/VxdcbbHcpfI/AAAAAAAAQvU/XkEl_hC-l-QBFp7LGu5JKaf17e65Wc_qQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO007.jpg

Zooming thru the air

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4LOOXo7VXWM/VxdcbxCz10I/AAAAAAAAQvU/W80bajc9P88UlTh4sus6fFd7yF7cVedmQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

And floating in it while a plane approaches and crashes into him aren't flying at all.

Yet Supes didn't fly until 1941 compared to July and Augusta 40 for cap.

Originally posted by beatboks
Right!!

So captain Marvel could only jump, sure he could. That's why in issue 5 of Whiz comics (his 4th appearance) when he takes to the sky he is leaving for another city.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wOqU7BUJapg/VxdW3-rirRI/AAAAAAAAPi8/kAUZYf7VHdgCZJV-1H4o2KXlHeYTbDCWQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO010.jpg

So 38 Superman cab leap a building white 40 Cap can leap part of a continent I guess.

power progression was faster given Supes had 8 appearances by issue 5 of action (Superman 1,2 and 3 were before action 5) Originally posted by beatboks
Same issue next page he did Chicago and California

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I-yEDuSSGFQ/VxdW4BuDi3I/AAAAAAAAPi8/2WzZ96rMSS8PONDL571D-fs_ULU61nXLwCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

That image of a plane flying alongside him isn't a representation of him flying now is it Originally posted by beatboks
These are from Whiz comics 7

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w9OAGnj5eVQ/VxdcbbHcpfI/AAAAAAAAQvU/XkEl_hC-l-QBFp7LGu5JKaf17e65Wc_qQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO007.jpg

Zooming thru the air

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4LOOXo7VXWM/VxdcbxCz10I/AAAAAAAAQvU/W80bajc9P88UlTh4sus6fFd7yF7cVedmQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

And floating in it while a plane approaches and crashes into him aren't flying at all.

Yet Supes didn't fly until 1941 compared to July and Augusta 40 for cap.
What's your point? You said he started flying from start (he didn't), now why are you moving the goalposts?

So in 1938 , Superman is lightspeed. Seems already more powerful than Billy.

Who moved anything Abhi. I showed him flying on his 44th page in print

Whiz comics 2 had 13 pages of capt marvel
Whiz comics 3 an 11 page story
12 pages in Whiz comics 4

In whiz 5 he's crossing the country by taking to the air in page 8.

Is 44 pages of printed comics not near the start? Theres such a thing as knowing what powers you have and how to use them before you use them.

Conversely we have Superman still not flying in Superman #4 (that was his next appearance after action 8) by which he had had 8 12 page stories in Action comics and 4 30 odd page Superman books that only around 1to 2 pages weren't him. Isn't it interesting in said issue 4 that when challenged by Luther to tests of his physicals his speed was enough to beat Luther auto-gyros in a race but they were always close behind. Those propeller driven craft of Luthor's must have been near light speed hunh?

Originally posted by beatboks
Who moved anything Abhi. I showed him flying on his 44th page in print

Whiz comics 2 had 13 pages of capt marvel
Whiz comics 3 an 11 page story
12 pages in Whiz comics 4

In whiz 5 he's crossing the country by taking to the air in page 8.

Is 44 pages of printed comics not near the start? Theres such a thing as knowing what powers you have and how to use them before you use them.

Conversely we have Superman still not flying in Superman #4 (that was his next appearance after action 8) by which he had had 8 12 page stories in Action comics and 4 30 odd page Superman books that only around 1to 2 pages weren't him. Isn't it interesting in said issue 4 that when challenged by Luther to tests of his physicals his speed was enough to beat Luther auto-gyros in a race but they were always close behind. Those propeller driven craft of Luthor's must have been near light speed hunh?
No, Cap only had power of leaping just like Superman did in the start. He started flying in Whiz Comics 5.

True.

@beatboks

Please post some Steamboat scans from Captain Marvel.


PLEASE.

Please?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, Cap only had power of leaping just like Superman did in the start. He started flying in Whiz Comics 5.

So by all means show me where in whiz 5 hisbpowers changed to give him this new power?

If not shiw me what changed in 4 that allowed for the power change in 5.

Far far more likely that he could always fly but didn't know it or try to. Much like he e experimented with his powers in the Shazam movie and only gradually learned that one of his powers included flight

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@beatboks

Please post some Steamboat scans from Captain Marvel.


PLEASE.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FH7sMPEKdYk/Vt6D98AzPRI/AAAAAAAAO1k/ps8GtXGw8QM/s1600-Ic42/RCO006.jpg

Originally posted by beatboks
So by all means show me where in whiz 5 hisbpowers changed to give him this new power?

If not shiw me what changed in 4 that allowed for the power change in 5.

Far far more likely that he could always fly but didn't know it or try to. Much like he e experimented with his powers in the Shazam movie and only gradually learned that one of his powers included flight
Huh? The writer suddenly made him fly and it stuck. It was golden age, logic pretty much had no place in comics at that point.

By this logic Superman could also fly in Action Comics #1

Namors name doesn't belong in the same sentence as Superman and the real Captain Marvel.

If Superman had flown in the first half dozen, hell even a full dozen issues then yes that logic could apply. He didn't however take flight until issue 32 of Action comics Jan 1941 when he followed a car from overhead. In his Superman title it was issue 9 march 1941 when he "streaked up" to intercept a missile (the first time it wasn't referred to as leaping).

That's 50 or so superman stories (the Superman title had 3 or 4 stories an issue) without flight, leaping, holding onto plane undercarriage (that one is specifically from Superman 8 jan 1941), while Cap flew in his 4th story.

You can't claim it as an unlearned ability of someone who grew up with their powers learning them before he even put on the cape when he had that much experience before he exhibited the ability. A kidnon the other hand who is simply given the powers and told he is mighty who fly 4 stories later. I mean come on it's chalk and cheese for "the big red cheese"

No, that logic would apply indifferently. You're making a random cutoff point for no other reason other than the fact that you have no argument. Saying "yeah, but it took Captain Marvel less issues for the writers to have him fly instead of leap than Superman!" is a non sequitur.

This:



Is wrong.

Simple.

The thread is about 1938 Superman vs 1940 Captain Marvel. You're trying to retroactively insert Captain Marvel flying instead of leaping, the same thing that could be done for Superman. But this is done for neither, because, well, the actual thread specifically says it's the versions from those years.

Is it so hard to admit that 1938 Superman is more powerful than 1940 Captain Marvel?

Originally posted by abhilegend
By Action Comics 5 (Oct 1938), Superman was running as fast as light and destroying mountain peaks.

https://i.postimg.cc/bsxbPcXf/RCO006.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/xX9mTxYJ/RCO010.jpg



Much lower level than the mountain peak, but he also easily lifted and supported a bridge while a train passed in the same issue:

https://ibb.co/SxSH327
https://ibb.co/BNFbH3p

Captaon Marvel did fly in 1940. He debuted in feb and was flying in may

Superman did not fly in 1938, he didn't fly until Jan1941 with some showings that aren't said as leaping, he didn't officially fly until Oct 1943 in Action 65.

I'm not retroactively inserting anything as the feats I'm mentioning are specific to the year mentioned.

In Whiz comics 5 may 1940 cap flies from NY to Chicago in a single panel, from Chicago to California in another. In 1938 superman has one caption only supporting a speed showing but his speed feats dont support that caption (even visually in that caption).

Superman's stated powers in 1938
http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/superman-comic.png

He could leap 1/8th a mile, was strong enoughbto lift great weight and could outrun an express train. Also importantly a busting shell could actually harm him.

Had the OP not specified the year and just said GA then Supes would be more powerful because he reached much greater speeds and had much greater strength feats in 1942- 1945 than cap. The fact is that thebyears stated slightly (and only slightly) favour Cap. Cap had a slightly greater durability in 40 than Supes had in 38. Cap had the flight advantage, cap had more speed showings of note that could actually have a figure put to them. In overall strength showings there isn't much in it.

1940 cap vs late 1940 1941 Supes is about even slight lean toward Clark. 1942/3 Superman wipes the floor with 1940 Cap and is above all GA showings of Cap. But this isn't the case for 1938 Superman.

But abhi posted Superman as a lightspeeder in 1938....

Originally posted by beatboks
Captaon Marvel did fly in 1940. He debuted in feb and was flying in may

Superman did not fly in 1938, he didn't fly until Jan1941 with some showings that aren't said as leaping, he didn't officially fly until Oct 1943 in Action 65.

I'm not retroactively inserting anything as the feats I'm mentioning are specific to the year mentioned.

In Whiz comics 5 may 1940 cap flies from NY to Chicago in a single panel, from Chicago to California in another. In 1938 superman has one caption only supporting a speed showing but his speed feats dont support that caption (even visually in that caption).

Superman's stated powers in 1938
http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/superman-comic.png

He could leap 1/8th a mile, was strong enoughbto lift great weight and could outrun an express train. Also importantly a busting shell could actually harm him.

Had the OP not specified the year and just said GA then Supes would be more powerful because he reached much greater speeds and had much greater strength feats in 1942- 1945 than cap. The fact is that thebyears stated slightly (and only slightly) favour Cap. Cap had a slightly greater durability in 40 than Supes had in 38. Cap had the flight advantage, cap had more speed showings of note that could actually have a figure put to them. In overall strength showings there isn't much in it.

1940 cap vs late 1940 1941 Supes is about even slight lean toward Clark. 1942/3 Superman wipes the floor with 1940 Cap and is above all GA showings of Cap. But this isn't the case for 1938 Superman. You are correct about Whiz Comics #5 -- I conflated the "Captain Marvel didn't fly from the start" with "Whiz Comics where he first flew isn't published in 1940" because I assumed it was the same point after your discussion with abhi and didn't bother to check. So for the purpose of this thread, he can fly. What you are incorrect about is using him flying in a subsequent issue (#5), as proof that he could always do so when, as already state, the same logic can be used for Superman. The point that each of them started flying is inconsequential, it can be Superman #11 and Whiz Comics #5 -- but the main thing they both leaped in the beginning, then flying was introduced. This is clearly seen in Whiz Comics #1 when he leaps between buildings :

https://i.ibb.co/F8CfrbJ/RCO010.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Pw1jr8s/RCO011.jpg

In Whiz comics #3 we can see him run after planes on foot to hang on to them:
https://i.ibb.co/QKv508s/RCO010.jpg

Leaping out of windows:
https://i.ibb.co/rbBRwfT/RCO013.jpg https://i.ibb.co/q0gRP43/RCO014.jpg https://i.ibb.co/526Tgjh/RCO015.jpg

In fact, in Whiz Comics #3 he takes a rocket to Venus and he needed to build another rocket to fly back home
https://i.ibb.co/xzzFY8W/RCO004.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WPGYTS0/RCO006.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/xFnydm5/RCO007.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hHTfN4r/RCO008.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/QbdXbqm/RCO009.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/fXckW1h/RCO010.jpg

In issue 4 Captain Marvel has to follow Sivana on foot who blows up bridges so that he cannot follow , and Cap leaps rivers to catch up to him:
https://i.ibb.co/h9ZWWc7/RCO011.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/R3JHJXv/RCO012-w.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Dwg5KVx/RCO013.jpg

It is very clear that Captain Marvel could not fly in his introduction, and only leap.

Furthermore, your initial posts are wrong in response to this thread, because this:

Originally posted by beatboks
Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor.


..is simply not true. In 1938 he was running "at the speed of light", pushing down mountain peaks, lifting bridges for trains to pass over.

As you might notice the tag is "faster than", "more powerful than". It's not "as fast as a" and "as powerful as".

Originally posted by beatboks
Captain Marvel stomps. He started out at a much higher level than Supes or Namor. The reason why Superman's powers were increased in the 40s was to compete with whiz comics that was selling near a million copies an issue or above. By 42 GA Supes was virtually SA level as a result.

Sure, but Whiz was just dialing up what Superman did to 11, hardly an original concept.


I agree with you on initial power levels. Superman was a far more interesting character though, with his ultra activist hard line stance that wasn't above personally leveling a slum while the United States military attacked him, just so they'd qualify for a relief initiative.