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so, maybe a bit of a fudged vs theme. i'd ask the mods' indulgence. this thread is designed to get an idea of which company is producing BETTER COMICS RIGHT NOW.

obviously it comes down to personal preference, but i'd ask you try supporting your opinion with some reasons. artists and writers are an obvious avenue, sales is clearly an option, but if you just really like one over the other, tell us why. is someone out there missing a truly great series?

the discussion is intended to start with current books, but i'd love to see it evolve to discuss books of the past as well. historically, has your opinion changed regarding the companies and the stories they tell? has your allegiance changed? who do you think has told the single best story in the last decade? couple of decades?

whatever. so long as the discussion stays civil and centered around quality of story, chime in. maybe you'll convince someone to try something new.

Objectively?

Originally posted by leonidas
so, maybe a bit of a fudged vs theme. i'd ask the mods' indulgence. this thread is designed to get an idea of which company is producing BETTER COMICS RIGHT NOW.

obviously it comes down to personal preference, but i'd ask you try supporting your opinion with some reasons. artists and writers are an obvious avenue, sales is clearly an option, but if you just really like one over the other, tell us why. is someone out there missing a truly great series?

the discussion is intended to start with current books, but i'd love to see it evolve to discuss books of the past as well. historically, has your opinion changed regarding the companies and the stories they tell? has your allegiance changed? who do you think has told the single best story in the last decade? couple of decades?

whatever. so long as the discussion stays civil and centered around quality of story, chime in. maybe you'll convince someone to try something new.

My type of thread. Marvel, always. DC making some of the most mind boggling creative choices possible.

Marvel is winning and that's only by default because it just seems like since the beginning of that last justice league run with that lame ass perpetua storyline they have just been throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Marvel has been focusing on all it's sjw cookies instead of just writing good stories and now DC is trying the same bullshit.

Edit

Also, Leah Williams: She's currently heading up the X-factor Book and so far everything Leah has been doing has been great. She expanded "The Mojoverse" to be an entire universe under the control of Mojo and not one planet, and has been doing some great things with individual characters (rachels cronoskimming) she's been giving Polaris an actual personality and much needed character development as well as expanding on what Eye-boy is capable of which I absolutely love, shes EXTREMELY talented at working on characters and developing team dynamics (which is a reoccurring theme through most of the X-men books)

that sounds very promising. read the first couple issues of sword. i like where it's heading, no doubt. once this knull nonsense is done, i think that book can be very cool. hickman is doing some truly awesome things with mutants imo.

Personally I like IDW or Valiant better. Marvel and DC are too event focused

the marvel maestro strikes again

I like DC's fantasy and cosmic series more, and those are the types of stories I prefer. Marvel's magic side is kinda weak compared to DC. Street levelers are about even, but DC has the king of streets, so...

Basically this.
I mean politics and other affairs IRL already made me tired. I just want to find some escapism when I read/watch comics, manga, anime, movies etc

Wonder Woman is on Warworld. I am hoping that this leads to an epic story. I'm a big Conan of the Hyborean age fan. Conan has always entertained me, as long as they keep him away from mainstream Marvel titles like the Savage Avengers. Justice League Dark, Justice League, Superman, Hulk, Thor, and the Avengers are also titles that I look forward to reading. The Fantastic 4 is a hit or miss title.

The Last God is interesting, decent art as well.

this a really interesting take. never really looked at it that way, but i can see your reasoning. i agree with almost all of this, especially the way marvel sometimes treats its big guns. dc goes TOO far the other way though, imo. everyone is treated like some uber cosmic--they are losing the relatability of their characters imo. i want the heroes GRAND, i don't want them all-powerful. there is still too large a difference between highs and lows in dc. when they show all their characters at these uber levels, when they don't perform at those levels ALL the time, it just seems...silly.

in general, using a term i hate--there is less overall sense of pis in marvel, imho. i also like the diversity in marvel a little more.

it's close, like you said, but i still like the more human characters in marvel, though i like the epicness of dc. at least currently. (though i really HATE what synder did with the league and the perpetua arc..... the worst writing of his career imo.)

Originally posted by leonidas
that sounds very promising. read the first couple issues of sword. i like where it's heading, no doubt. once this knull nonsense is done, i think that book can be very cool. hickman is doing some truly awesome things with mutants imo.

Yeah Hickman still manages to make fascinating stories and obstacles for Mutantkind and krakoa to overcome as part of his effort to bring the X-men back to their former glory and re-establish them as the dominant power on earth.

Yep Snyder and Cates should be written up, or fired altogether.

👍🏻 American vampire was sooooo damn good though....

Originally posted by leonidas
so, maybe a bit of a fudged vs theme. i'd ask the mods' indulgence. this thread is designed to get an idea of which company is producing BETTER COMICS RIGHT NOW.

obviously it comes down to personal preference, but i'd ask you try supporting your opinion with some reasons. artists and writers are an obvious avenue, sales is clearly an option, but if you just really like one over the other, tell us why. is someone out there missing a truly great series?

the discussion is intended to start with current books, but i'd love to see it evolve to discuss books of the past as well. historically, has your opinion changed regarding the companies and the stories they tell? has your allegiance changed? who do you think has told the single best story in the last decade? couple of decades?

whatever. so long as the discussion stays civil and centered around quality of story, chime in. maybe you'll convince someone to try something new.

Every six months or so, I go back to see if things have improved from the last time I was disappointed. From the big two I pick up X-Men, Avengers, JL, Superman and Aquaman.

I've been disappointed since about 2015. And **** Hickman for getting me excited only to disappoint.

DC because I love powerlevels. It's the power that defines quality. Marvel doesn't respect POWER. Their POWER is all over the place. I'm so upset to see my favorite Marvel characters get shitstomped by DC, but it is what it is. The strongest heralds in Marvel would at best be mid-heralds in DC. My only hope is that Odin doesn't lose to somebody truly despicable and weak like Flash and Thor gets to beat Spiderman, but the way things are going, that is a wild shot, so I have to go with DC, every time. DC NEVER has their streets like Batman, Deathstroke disrespect its POWERFUL people. Never. Hopefully my personal power and status tiers become a reality soon, because I'll have a nervous breakdown if they keep going like this and I'll start to HATE Marvel for the disrespect to POWER. And I like my story with a good deal of power.

---

In all seriousness, if we take eliminate the last 10 years, in which both companies have been more or less shit , I'd go with Marvel. Consistently well written characters/stories , Cap, X-Men etc.], consistent planning in storylines etc. DC may have higher highs that I personally enjoy , but their 'average' is simply not that good. There's only so much Batman's popularity and relative consistency can carry the company -- Johns' GL was one of the sole long-running bright spots. And there's a blip here and there, but not frequent or long-running enough to really put them above.

I also liked Johns' Titans and JSA , for what's worth.

It's just...very few things that really stand out as ones I'd like to read again.


---


I like Bendis' Avengers run quite a bit up until the last parts where it was running on fumes

...

https://media.tenor.com/images/cbf3ce2d32834bfc608c739ed80e6289/tenor.gif

Originally posted by -Pr-
NGL, you had me going for a minute there.



had me for a couple sentences too... bastich.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Which run? I liked New Avengers to an extent. Mighty irked me though.



ikr? His New Avengers mainly. I liked Mighty too, even if it was just conventional. Dark Avengers, too. I think his HoM was good, too

I think his relaunch with Romita Jr. was pretty bad. Then Avengers Assemble was him just going through the motions.

i haven't REALLY enjoyed an avengers arc since the build up to the reboot....i really dislike what's happened to some of the traditional characters. it's weird. it's like they are trying to do the exact opposite in some ways of dc. dc tried setting their main characters on pedestals, while marvel seems to love knocking theirs off and constantly spotlighting different characters for a little bit before moving on. dc also seems to love always making the next BIGGER thing--it's like nothing it ever big enough for dc. that type of thinking gets tiresome--there always has to be another level it feels like in dc, which makes then demeans the previous level.

i like epic-ness, but when it is continually strained, it loses its effect. so yeah, i guess i'm still a little undecided lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Spidey has punched aherald of Galactus out.

Batman- a human -has just survived point blank a detonation from Atomic Skull which destroyed a couple (?) of city blocks.

Wonder Woman just controlled the Phantom Stranger in his place of power.

It's DC. Like it or hate it, they focus on their core Trinity and make sure they get their feats.

Marvel want to appeal to the masses, and try to give everyone a chance to shine - which means eventually, everyone "jobs" to everyone else. Oh, you like Thor? Here he is one shotting Galactus. You like Moon Knight? Here he is one shotting Thor. You like Black Panther? Here he is one shotting Moon Knight. You like Hulk? Here he is overloading Panther. You like Sasquatch? Here he is etc etc.

Horses for courses, I guess. I enjoy both.

You know you're goated when you got one of the biggest Dc stans to admit Marvel shits on DC in terms of story quality and characters. You're MAKING progress diesl. I LOVE it

https://i.postimg.cc/V0CYZKRs/tenor.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Bendis can write when he wants to.

It's just that he doesn't plan things carefully and tends to lose interest a lot... then his comics quickly become a talking heads show with cringey dialogue.

Mighty series was good before the Secret Invasion tie-ins, imho.

New Avengers issues were like butter spread on too much bread.

Dark Avengers was f*cking sweet before Fraction came in with his completely unnecessary Utopia crossover, which was a waste of time both story- and action-wise.

I really enjoyed the Mighty series. And tbh, a lot of it was art related

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I really enjoyed the Mighty series. And tbh, a lot of it was art related



Frank Cho = epic win.

http://www.heavymetal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/star-wars-leia-slave.jpg

Both companies have their highs and WTF happened lows.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Frank Cho = epic win.

http://www.heavymetal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/star-wars-leia-slave.jpg

Cho is an awesome artist indeed.

for a full pledged dc swallower like yourself to accept like the majority that it will never be anywhere close to marvel in terms of story, quality, or plot warms my heart.

Reported for trolling

I enjoyed more marvel books

both companies main event crossovers suck though

Originally posted by MrMind
I enjoyed more marvel books

Sig-worthy

Golgo is trying to swallow his shotgun right now.

If you had to recommend one current dc title to prove your case and one current marvel title which titles would you choose? The case: prove your company is the better story teller of course. Though you could choose a terrible title to support the other side I guess. Lol

I don't think theres any current title that's really worth reading

but at least hickman's x-men is decent, and I enjoyed king in black

there is not a sinlge dc title that's not absolute shit right now, future state is a disaster of highest proportion.

Originally posted by leonidas


If you had to recommend one current dc title to prove your case and one current marvel title which titles would you choose? The case: prove your company is the better story teller of course. Though you could choose a terrible title to support the other side I guess. Lol

Hickman (House of X/Powers of X, dawn/reign of X, X-men and New Mutants)

Also, I really like Ewing has been doing on his S.W.O.R.D. (only #2 out) Book as he's been taking a deep deep dive into X-men history and lore and pulling out all the stops for characters to use. The X-men are BY FAR the most diverse group of individuals in all of comics when it comes to powers and relationships and bonds and Ewing is using that to his full advantage to create what is so far the beginning of something amazing.

Hellblazer and The Last God (as Stoic said) are good from DC, and current.

Marvel has Sword, and KiB.

Are we just using mainstream super heroes? If we use wildstorm and Vertigo (Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol), on top of Milestone and the Hannah Barbara line, Dc has pumped out more quality runs, imo. They usually sweep the Eisners year after year for a reason.

i agree with alberto about the direction of the x-books. i think it's moving in a pretty awesome direction. i'll take a look at last god and hellblazer--haven't checked in on hellblazer in a long while.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree with alberto about the direction of the x-books. i think it's moving in a pretty awesome direction. i'll take a look at last god and hellblazer--haven't checked in on hellblazer in a long while.

👍 The DC books on the other hand seem to follow that same old tired crisis formula of throwing everything at the story and hoping part of it entertains you enough that you don't pay attention to the fact that it's a generic story with a throwaway villain that they will try to keep relevant by placing him in a few jobber level cameos(antimonitior for example).

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
for a full pledged dc swallower like yourself to accept like the majority that it will never be anywhere close to marvel in terms of story, quality, or plot warms my heart. answer the question you cumrag

Originally posted by Diesldude
you cumrag

I love this forum

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Also, Leah Williams: She's currently heading up the X-factor Book and so far everything Leah has been doing has been great. She expanded "The Mojoverse" to be an entire universe under the control of Mojo and not one planet, and has been doing some great things with individual characters (rachels cronoskimming) she's been giving Polaris an actual personality and much needed character development as well as expanding on what Eye-boy is capable of which I absolutely love, shes EXTREMELY talented at working on characters and developing team dynamics (which is a reoccurring theme through most of the X-men books)
We're in a thread about quality, and you suggest Leah Williams X-Factor. Reported. haermm

Leah seems nice, and I understand writing is hard, but X-Factor is pretty bad. The romance reads like a 13 year old's fanfiction. The comedy is very laugh box, corny sitcom style. And she's confusing a lack of plot for character development. We were promised a cool little procedural, and got a pretty uninspired slice-of-life story instead. I feel like this is a consistent problem with this recent wave of web-comic writers(I know Leah has a different background) being hired to work for the bigger companies. They insist on writing this way, but are generally bad at it. Or at least pick the wrong characters for it.

And wtf is with this forced Daken/Aurora romance? And she's openly admitted to disliking Polaris, and I strongly suspect having Polaris on the team was out of her control. She hasn't really done much for her other than a random friendship with Daken. And speaking of Daken, she picked him so the team could have a "f ucky thot enforcer." I get she was making a joke, but it really bleeds into her depiction of him. This has to be the worse Daken ever tbh. Hell, Rachel is her favorite character, and Rachel has zero narrative arcs here. She just sits around with ****ing Amazing Baby, the worse thing ever introduced in any work of fiction. I hope it gets its face ripped off and dies. That one wasn't Leah's fault, but holy hell I could live without it.

It's a shame really, because I think Leah does some things well. Despite all the hate it seems like I'm throwing, I think Leah handles the actual procedural and "X-Factor-y" moments comparatively well. She also has decent plots, but she just focuses on it so very little that the book falls flat. We get like 5 panels of actual X-Factor stuff, and entire issues of the squad sitting on a staircase going "Oh no she didn't! *finger snap*" for some moment barely worthy of 90's sitcom dialogue.

It could work with certain writers I guess, but not here.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Bendis can write when he wants to.

It's just that he doesn't plan things carefully and tends to lose interest a lot... then his comics quickly become a talking heads show with cringey dialogue.



Bendis Daredevil is quite good.

Even in his work on X-Men, he does write a solid Shadowcat and Iceman. But then you turn the page....and see everyone else going full cringe. It's really jarring.

There was actually an issue back during the Teen Jean era, where Bendis surprised me. No cringe. No one talked too much trying to force a botched joke. Solid and organic emotional beats. It made me wonder why he can't always write like that? Is he just spread too thin?

Originally posted by StyleTime
We're in a thread about quality, and you suggest Leah Williams X-Factor. Reported. haermm

Leah seems nice, and I understand writing is hard, but X-Factor is pretty bad. The romance reads like a 13 year old's fanfiction. The comedy is very laugh box, corny sitcom style. And she's confusing a lack of plot for character development. We were promised a cool little procedural, and got a pretty uninspired slice-of-life story instead. I feel like this is a consistent problem with this recent wave of web-comic writers(I know Leah has a different background) being hired to work for the bigger companies. They insist on writing this way, but are generally bad at it. Or at least pick the wrong characters for it.

And wtf is with this forced Daken/Aurora romance? And she's openly admitted to disliking Polaris, and I strongly suspect having Polaris on the team was out of her control. She hasn't really done much for her other than a random friendship with Daken. And speaking of Daken, she picked him so the team could have a "f ucky thot enforcer." I get she was making a joke, but it really bleeds into her depiction of him. This has to be the worse Daken ever tbh. Hell, Rachel is her favorite character, and Rachel has zero narrative arcs here. She just sits around with ****ing Amazing Baby, the worse thing ever introduced in any work of fiction. I hope it gets its face ripped off and dies. That one wasn't Leah's fault, but holy hell I could live without it.

It's a shame really, because I think Leah does some things well. Despite all the hate it seems like I'm throwing, I think Leah handles the actual procedural and "X-Factor-y" moments comparatively well. She also has decent plots, but she just focuses on it so very little that the book falls flat. We get like 5 panels of actual X-Factor stuff, and entire issues of the squad sitting on a staircase going "Oh no she didn't! *finger snap*" for some moment barely worthy of 90's sitcom dialogue.

It could work with certain writers I guess, but not here.



Bendis Daredevil is quite good.

Even in his work on X-Men, he does write a solid Shadowcat and Iceman. But then you turn the page....and see everyone else going full cringe. It's really jarring.

There was actually an issue back during the Teen Jean era, where Bendis surprised me. No cringe. No one talked too much trying to force a botched joke. Solid and organic emotional beats. It made me wonder why he can't always write like that? Is he just spread too thin?

She is great on character development, and there is a plot brewing, they are going back to an unfinished storyline where a death goddess possessed Siryn, that first mojoworld arc was pretty decent as well, last weeks X-factor to me was a filler issue, filler issues for the most part are not the best but as far as fillers go to me having followed X-men for most of my comic book career was great.
I understand what your saying sort of like that part where they showed the message orbs that all represented cases of missing mutants and not getting to that quick enough, I think they will but I also think X-factor is trying to re-establish itself after being interrupted by X of Swords.
I think she is firmly setting up characters of what she wants to do (Eye-boy, Rachel, Northstar etc) and then they will go and do it, at the moment I do agree that for an investigative team they are doing to much sitting around but it won't last and we will see more in the coming handful of issues.