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lol this is awesome. i'll take daredevil.

Hmmmmmmmm

I take Batman

imagine my shock.

Well I just thought his cowl gives him more of an advantage. We already know he can be stealthy enough to hide from the likes of Superman et al (without gear), but at the same time, his cowl has various lenses that enable him to see through walls etc to find DD.

So as the OP is currently worded, I reckon Bats has a better chance.

SCAN DUMP!

Seeing through snow:
https://imgur.com/a/5PLyS

X-ray:
https://imgur.com/a/vsvDDKt

Through buildings:
https://i.imgur.com/mqvZko4.jpg?1

And again:
https://imgur.com/a/UlEVfRR

Targeting for him:
https://imgur.com/a/YOZvY

And then there is his stealth. Against Superman:
https://imgur.com/a/8d3ct

Gotham (whilst they were staring at him):
https://imgur.com/a/RV9iw

The entire JLA +others:
https://imgur.com/a/9QOL6

Superman even says he made a sound so slight, he missed it the first time (and this was when Bats is 5 years older, but Supes says he was ALWAYS good at that):
https://imgur.com/a/UHimQ

Andrew Bennet:
https://imgur.com/a/bgBPk

In short: as the stips are written, DD would be walking around as clear as day, and whilst he IS very stealthy, Bats has the tech to gain the upper hand.

OTOH, Bats himself is stealthy enough to hide himself from DD's senses. And whilst he doesn't use guns himself, he is still skilled enough to make shots even Deathstroke calls 'impossible for a pro'...

https://imgur.com/a/XnSM1

i knew how cowl had some x-ray abilities, but dd's radar would allow the same. i simply don't see batman disappearing from dd's radar on a...roof. dd's baton has done at least as many 'impossible' things as bats. i could see where this might be a quickdraw scenario maybe. once a shot is fired, dd would have a large advantage--he'd be able to smell the gun from anywhere in the area, easily.

i'm not sure if i'm envisioning things right either--if they can see each other to start, then we need to take dodging into account. if they are on opposite sides with obstructions, then the other things come into play.

it's close, no doubt. i'd still take dd by a fraction. good chance it's simply that ge dies last....

Originally posted by Galan007
Daredevil/Punisher:
https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830936_Daredevil_004-009.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830937_Daredevil_004-011.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830938_Daredevil_004-012.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830939_Daredevil_004-013.jpg

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830940_Daredevil_004-014.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830941_Daredevil_004-015.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830942_Daredevil_004-016.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/40830943_Daredevil_004-017.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
i knew how cowl had some x-ray abilities, but dd's radar would allow the same. i simply don't see batman disappearing from dd's radar on a...roof. dd's baton has done at least as many 'impossible' things as bats. i could see where this might be a quickdraw scenario maybe. once a shot is fired, dd would have a large advantage--he'd be able to smell the gun from anywhere in the area, easily.

i'm not sure if i'm envisioning things right either--if they can see each other to start, then we need to take dodging into account. if they are on opposite sides with obstructions, then the other things come into play.

it's close, no doubt. i'd still take dd by a fraction. good chance it's simply that ge dies last....

Lol I like how you're trying to use logic here.

When Batman has disappeared from the likes of Superman whilst he was looking at him lol.

Daredevil.

Not only can he hear your heart but he can also hear the gun itself and be able to react thus making it harder for Bruce to shoot him:
https://i.postimg.cc/PP99bkTd/157861489-10159028280627383-768671880192136028-o.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/94jkStDS/157723707-10159028280847383-4711581721712840978-o.jpg

Matt even sensed someone trying to snipe him
https://i.postimg.cc/CZH2VBDK/156861084-10159028281462383-1797608862602225203-o.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/TLtHpztM/158087941-10159028282702383-56449031691658818-o.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HVqvc49x/157498624-10159028282827383-8989388333800466154-o.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/YL48jh4Y/156833017-10159028282987383-9156491269059066741-o.jpg

Guy had clear shots and still missed
https://i.postimg.cc/nCBY58qF/157870878-10159028283437383-2803667533358784857-o.jpg

And with Matt's sense he is able to tell you the whole sceen of a murder, type of gun and its caliber, Worlds greatest detective needs tech to do that.
https://i.postimg.cc/75N1HgBj/157080763-10159028284662383-66029036136814442-o.jpg

This is just a taste, Bruce is not winning this.

Originally posted by Smurph


Awful.

Very disappointed in you, Smurphette.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Awful.

Very disappointed in you, Smurphette. I made this thread just to repost those scans to make you mad.

Glad it worked.

Originally posted by Smurph
I made this thread just to repost those scans to make you mad.

Glad it worked.

Good job, you animal.

Consider myself baited.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/251089a3c403ba72061d33db0e88507a/tumblr_ofcsgywFXf1rp0vkjo1_500.gif

Batman ALWAYS wins.. It is KMC law

Bruce. His ninja skills are superior.

@Albert: you misread my scans he's tellin other people to pack x-ray lenses.

Not to mention you conveniently glossed over the other scans. You're done.

i think the cowl is pretty inconsistently shown overall isn't it? sometimes it has tech, sometimes not? not sure if recently it's been shown to ALWAYS be all tech-ed up. if so, that would be enough to convince me of an even split here, or like i said, a quickdraw scenario.

as regards the superman scans--we all know bats has been making plans to deal with superman for....a long time, in the event he ever needed to take him down. the superman stuff can be seen as batman being batman, of course, but i don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's just part of batman's overall superman prep. shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
i think the cowl is pretty inconsistently shown overall isn't it? sometimes it has tech, sometimes not? not sure if recently it's been shown to ALWAYS be all tech-ed up. if so, that would be enough to convince me of an even split here, or like i said, a quickdraw scenario.

as regards the superman scans--we all know bats has been making plans to deal with superman for....a long time, in the event he ever needed to take him down. the superman stuff can be seen as batman being batman, of course, but i don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's just part of batman's overall superman prep. shrug

Agreed. Hence my post, as the OP worded. If you think that Batman with tech wins, that's fine. Without tech it being closer, sure.

Standardly, though, its teched up

And with the tech, Bats is able to basically see through walls etc. Which we have to agree, is a pretty big aid.

no doubt x-ray vision would help, but i'm not sure there IS anything to see through. i guess it depends if you visualize obstacles, or if each has a view of the other.

who you think wins an old west quickdraw? hey, that gives me an idea for a thread.....

Well I envisaged something like this:

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/birds-eye-view-urban-new-york-city-rooftop-top-view-new-york-city-manhattan-sliver-rooftop-skylight-windows-classic-brick-119923491.jpg

Possibly influenced by the DD TV show lol. But yeah, plenty to objects to duck behind and hide.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Albert: you misread my scans he's tellin other people to pack x-ray lenses.

Not to mention you conveniently glossed over the other scans. You're done.

What scans?

Daredevil can hear dudes from like several blocks away can he not? This man slapped a bullet back into a gun. I know Bruce has some sneak sneak feats but that matters not once he squeeze that trigger Matt can and will be able to react to that.

Like we were just talking how improbable that Taskmaster feat was and now you have a dude that exceeded that in terms of difficulty. To not only react to a bullet but hit at the perfect angle and power to knock it back perfectly down the barrel of the gun it came from is wild AF

not sure the picture is large enough. i'm having trouble making out the details.

anyway, this is sort of what i was thinking:

https://imgur.com/a/V31smba

depending where they stand they would have a clear view. if that's the case, quickdraw. otherwise lots of things come into play like who's made the coolest trick shot with a batarang or billy club.... that'd be interesting to look at. lol

If it's a featureless roof, it's probably a double kill.

If there's obstacles, Batman might figure a way to throw off the radar sense and maybe lead Daredevil into a trap. Especially if the roof has noise making structures on it.

DD has superior senses, which goes without saying. Not sure who'd win though.

Originally posted by Stoic
DD has superior senses, which goes without saying. Not sure who'd win though.

This was my point. Not sure he has superior senses with the teched cowl.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol I like how you're trying to use logic here.

When Batman has disappeared from the likes of Superman whilst he was looking at him lol.

Despite all his other enhanced senses Superman like all sighted people relies fundamentally on his sight. The sort of stealth bats uses is like that of a magician, misdirection. DD doesn't have sight so won't fall for the misdirection. Forum rules say basic knowledge, that is what is publicly known about a character. It's not publicly known that DD is blind or that he has enhanced senses, and as such Bat's wont account for that in his stealth as he would for those like Superman (for whom super senses is public knowledge)

DD takes it

Originally posted by StyleTime
If it's a featureless roof, it's probably a double kill.

If there's obstacles, Batman might figure a way to throw off the radar sense and maybe lead Daredevil into a trap. Especially if the roof has noise making structures on it.

How does he know about the radar to throw it off?
It's not public knowledge so not included as basic knowledge as per forum rules.

Originally posted by beatboks
Despite all his other enhanced senses Superman like all sighted people relies fundamentally on his sight. The sort of stealth bats uses is like that of a magician, misdirection. DD doesn't have sight so won't fall for the misdirection. Forum rules say basic knowledge, that is what is publicly known about a character. It's not publicly known that DD is blind or that he has enhanced senses, and as such Bat's wont account for that in his stealth as he would for those like Superman (for whom super senses is public knowledge)

DD takes it

He's also done it with sound. Or is your argument that Batman disappears from sight whilst making loads of noise?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's also done it with sound. Or is your argument that Batman disappears from sight whilst making loads of noise?

No my argument is what I said. To be able to pull off that level of stealth against someone with super senses you'd have to be aware of those senses. You would have to account for them in how your being stealthy. Bats wouldn't know DD has super smell or hearing. He certainly wouldn't know he has a radar sense or that he can feel movement in the air.he can't therefore be prepared to use the stealth required to avoid/hide from someone of that nature.

He knows superman has those powers. Frankly he likely used his heightened hearing to disappear from him. Your using the argument that because he disappeared in front of Superman once he can do it to DD but the two simply aren't equal in many ways.

1. Most of Bats stealth is based on sight, something Matt doesn't have and Bruce can't be aware of

2. Unlike Supes Matt's senses are focused on hearing, smell, feel because he doesn't have sight. A normal blind person hears and smells better because of this without super senses, Matt has super senses.

3. The fact that Bruce knows Clark has super senses but can't know Matt does means he is very unlikely to employ the type of stealth he used on Clark so it simply won't work

My argument being that Batman relies on stealth - general - not just on sight.

With his cowl, he can actually see what DD is doing - and the World's Greatest Detective would be able to deduce that his opponent is reacting as if he can detect him.

And so would act accordingly.

Batman loses. Daredevil figures out he's a tryhard from his heartbeat and it all goes downhill from there for Bruce

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure the picture is large enough. i'm having trouble making out the details.

The pic is not big at all.

It's 2021, leo. Stop using the monitor made in 2000.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My argument being that Batman relies on stealth - general - not just on sight.

With his cowl, he can actually see what DD is doing - and the World's Greatest Detective would be able to deduce that his opponent is reacting as if he can detect him.

And so would act accordingly.

An argument that fails for reasons ive already stated

Yes Bruce users stealth in general but 96% of people relied 90% on sight ergo 90% of the stealth is sight related. Mattbis on of the 4% (there are 285 mill sight impaired people in the world 39 million completely blind). Sighted people only cursory notice other senses by comparison. The level one would need to cover sounding stealth for a sighted person is vastly less than one that isn't or one that has trained to be alert. Bruce would for example employ greater care sound wise against trained elite troupes who are in active combat than a normal criminal. That is likely the same focus he would use on Superman, but insufficient for someone like Matt.

Bruce figuring out that Matt has the senses he has is going to happen before Matt fires a shot with absolute accuracy with his rader sense? I don't think so. Added to which his first deduction would likely be that Matt has similar gear to himself, and that wouldn't give away a radar sense anyway. I'm curious how any level of stealth without gear beats that.

Batman will catch that DD is reacting to him but he won't immediately know *how*. As soon as he knows what's up it's just a matter of probing until he arrives at the answer.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Batman will catch that DD is reacting to him but he won't immediately know *how*. As soon as he knows what's up it's just a matter of probing until he arrives at the answer.

I don't disagree with that, I just don't see him coming to the correct conclusion before someone as accurate as DD puts a bullet in him. I mean even though he isn't one to carry a gun he can certainly use one well. He was after all able to shoot his own billy club out of Bullseye's hand

https://ibb.co/BKDQdjL