Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I don't know enough about the ST to make a call on round 3, but Anakin stomps every other round.

1) AotC Anakin
2)By feats Anakin, by hype maybe Luke. I'd go with Anakin
3)Luke should win. He's hyped to be >= ROtj Sid
4)Anakin stomps

Assuming Canon for the first three match ups?

If that's the case, Luke sweeps.

Luke by ESB has far, far more live combat experience than AotC Anakin. On top of that, we know ESB Luke is above the Grand Inquisitor, who is comparable to Asajj Ventress, who is above AotC Anakin. The only edge Anakin really has here is technical skill thanks to his training under the Jedi. But technical skill only goes so far against an opponent who is just objectively more powerful than you, as demonstrated countless times in both Legends and Canon.

Luke in RotJ is Darth Vader's equal in both lightsaber combat and Force power. If anything, Luke has a noticeable edge over Vader. And before someone tries to argue that Vader was hindered, in Canon that is simply not the case. Beware the Power of the Dark Side makes it pretty explicitly clear that Vader was drawing additional strength from fear, while also drawing on his usual hate and anger during his fight against Luke, and it still didn't help him. At no point does it ever mention Vader being weakened. It only ever mentions Vader drawing additional power.

Meanwhile, we have confirmation that Darth Vader is outright stronger than Anakin. Vader also has far, far better feats than anything Anakin has demonstrated in Canon. So Luke being Vader's equal or superior puts Luke leagues above Anakin.

Round three is just a cakewalk for Luke. By this time, Luke has been spending years learning everything he can about ancient Jedi lore, studying other Force disciplines outside of the Jedi and Sith, and has all the knowledge from Jocasta Nu's hidden training temple. He's also hyped to be in the same ballpark as Sidious. It's just no contest.

The last round is kind of hard to call, but I still lean Luke. Luke Skywalker's full potential is the same as Anakin (stated by George Lucas, in a quote something along the lines of, "The son had the potential to become what the father was supposed to be" or something along those lines. I'll have to dig it up some time). So, assuming they have the same potentials, there's two questions to ask: Did Luke ever reach his full potential? And if so, who is better, full potential Luke or full potential Anakin?

In answer to those questions, I'd argue that Luke being capable of Oneness with the Force in a combative sense is evidence that he did reach his full potential. And with that being the case, we can say that Oneness Luke should be able to fight on par with full potential Anakin, given the parity in their potential. So then it comes down to a question of who is more skilled. Even with his full potential available, we only have Anakin's known skill level to go off of. Meanwhile, Grandmaster Luke is a far, far superior swordsman, mastering all 7 lightsaber forms and even helping create new forms that didn't exist during Anakin's time. He also learned a great deal of rare, esoteric Force powers that Anakin would have no knowledge of or experience with. Luke is just better across the board when it comes to skill and feats.

So, yeah, I stand by my statement. Luke sweeps.

Originally posted by Underachiever59
Assuming Canon for the first three match ups?

If that's the case, Luke sweeps.

Luke by ESB has far, far more live combat experience than AotC Anakin. On top of that, we know ESB Luke is above the Grand Inquisitor, who is comparable to Asajj Ventress, who is above AotC Anakin. The only edge Anakin really has here is technical skill thanks to his training under the Jedi. But technical skill only goes so far against an opponent who is just objectively more powerful than you, as demonstrated countless times in both Legends and Canon.

Luke in RotJ is Darth Vader's equal in both lightsaber combat and Force power. If anything, Luke has a noticeable edge over Vader. And before someone tries to argue that Vader was hindered, in Canon that is simply not the case. Beware the Power of the Dark Side makes it pretty explicitly clear that Vader was drawing additional strength from fear, while also drawing on his usual hate and anger during his fight against Luke, and it still didn't help him. At no point does it ever mention Vader being weakened. It only ever mentions Vader drawing additional power.

Meanwhile, we have confirmation that Darth Vader is outright stronger than Anakin. Vader also has far, far better feats than anything Anakin has demonstrated in Canon. So Luke being Vader's equal or superior puts Luke leagues above Anakin.

Round three is just a cakewalk for Luke. By this time, Luke has been spending years learning everything he can about ancient Jedi lore, studying other Force disciplines outside of the Jedi and Sith, and has all the knowledge from Jocasta Nu's hidden training temple. He's also hyped to be in the same ballpark as Sidious. It's just no contest.

The last round is kind of hard to call, but I still lean Luke. Luke Skywalker's full potential is the same as Anakin (stated by George Lucas, in a quote something along the lines of, "The son had the potential to become what the father was supposed to be" or something along those lines. I'll have to dig it up some time). So, assuming they have the same potentials, there's two questions to ask: Did Luke ever reach his full potential? And if so, who is better, full potential Luke or full potential Anakin?

In answer to those questions, I'd argue that Luke being capable of Oneness with the Force in a combative sense is evidence that he did reach his full potential. And with that being the case, we can say that Oneness Luke should be able to fight on par with full potential Anakin, given the parity in their potential. So then it comes down to a question of who is more skilled. Even with his full potential available, we only have Anakin's known skill level to go off of. Meanwhile, Grandmaster Luke is a far, far superior swordsman, mastering all 7 lightsaber forms and even helping create new forms that didn't exist during Anakin's time. He also learned a great deal of rare, esoteric Force powers that Anakin would have no knowledge of or experience with. Luke is just better across the board when it comes to skill and feats.

So, yeah, I stand by my statement. Luke sweeps.

Do you have that quote handy from beware the power of the dark side in regards to Luke being in par with Vader? I'd love to see it.

Originally posted by Forschbewithu
Do you have that quote handy from beware the power of the dark side in regards to Luke being in par with Vader? I'd love to see it.

It's more than just a single quote. Several of the passages throughout Beware the Power of the Dark Side express Luke's superiority:



First, this passage shows that Vader's driving force is hatred, but not hatred for Luke. So all arguments about Vader being hindered by his love of Luke don't apply to Canon, since Luke is a reminder of Vader's own past, which is the source of Vader's hatred.



At the start of the fight, as shown in the movie, Vader is "just a little too slow" when fighting Luke, and Luke's "mighty two-handed blow" is enough for Vader to be "thrown off balance by the intensity of it." Both of these lines imply Luke's superiority over Vader right from the beginning of the duel, which is supported by how the fight played out in the movie (Luke had blitzed Vader and kicked him down the stairs in about 8 seconds from the beginning of the on-screen duel).



And when Luke gives into his anger and fear for Leia, the novel outright confirms that Vader is "Always fueled by hatred," and "now gathers additional strength from fear." So the Vader that Luke beat at the end of RotJ was actually an amped Vader, fighting above his normal performance level, "but it is not enough."

So base RotJ Luke at the start of the fight is too fast for Vader, and strong enough to off-balance Vader with a two-handed strike, implying superiority over base RotJ Vader. And amped RotJ Luke is massively above amped RotJ Vader at the end of the duel.

Couple these with lines from the actual script of RotJ, and we can see that it is consistent with George Lucas' intent for Luke to be superior to Vader by the time of RotJ.



"The young Jedi has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him." While the scripts aren't necessarily canon, they do tell us what the intent was when the movie was made, and support the novelization's interpretation of Luke being Vader's superior.

Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to provide that breakdown!

No problem, bud. I'm always happy to share sources when I have them on hand.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
1) AotC Anakin
2)By feats Anakin, by hype maybe Luke. I'd go with Anakin
3)Luke should win. He's hyped to be >= ROtj Sid
4)Anakin stomps

This