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How this goes?

Gladiator by feats easily but Nefaria via narrative threat.

I'll go with the Count.

Originally posted by leonidas
How this goes?

You know this was done millions of times, right?

Anyway, I assume they are more or less equal, as that seems the intent.

Gladiator might have the edge in fighting skill, same as he did vs. Hyperion --- Count was more of a criminal mastermind than a fighter, before he acquired his Ionic powers.

I'm no longer sure that Count Nefaria is stronger than Gladiator. I'm assuming that for the purpose of the thread that he has full confidence going in. In which case I believe that Gladiator would win after a very tough fight.

lol yeah, they all do fluctuate a lot. cn clearly doesn't have the feats to match glads. phil convinced he he was stronger than thor for what it's worth, and in a later re-powered incarnation he literally laughed off the combined attack of ironman danvers she-hulk giant man and vision--and i mean literally laughed and swatted the entire group (with many others) aside like insects. glads is strong but i don't see him doing that i don't think--at least not with that kind of ease. even stunned he effortlessly one-shot she-hulk.

speed is tougher to gauge. he seems to be as fast as he needs to be. he's never really had a reason to have his speed tested. certainly can't assume he can reach glads speed though.

glads most impressive showing imo was the way he took out vulcan after vulcan wrecked the guard. the planet busting was cool but hard to quantify. imo the count is stronger. but like you said skill is on glads side and so is speed imo. at peak power i think the count also has durability on his side--he's utterly no sold the combined attacks of the avengers and t-bolts. hmm.

the more i think about it, the more i'm inclined to say the count wins this. i just don't see glads doing as well against the combined opponents cn has faced.

Do you recall how well Pagan did against a more powerful team of Avengers?

yeah i remember pagan, but how come you brought him up?

Stoic just wants to talk about Blue Marvel vin

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i remember pagan, but how come you brought him up?

Just using it as a comparison. A blood lusted Hyperion would find about as much resistance as Nefaria against a team comprised of characters below Thor. Wonder Man was next, and after him the threat levels had a sharp decrease if you consider the potential one shots that would happen to characters with human level durability. Wanda for example is crazy powerful, but a stray 2 pound flying rock could potentially put her out of the fight.

hmm, not sure about that. ironman's track record is pretty damn good. vision is in wonderman's class for sure and i'd place him above simon in general. she-hulk isn't a complete chump, but it was the combo of energy attacks he's faced and laughed off that i found impressive.

but i agree with your overall point--i don't think there is a large degree of separation between the count and hyperion or glads. overall i think i'd give the count the nod though.

Marvel should really consider doing a lot more with Gladiator. If it were up to me, I'd have him get kicked out of Shiar space for whatever reason and replaced by another super being. He'd then find his way to Earth, etc.

But Glads has no business on Earth, he is not interested in it.

Other than sending his son to Logan's school once.

Marvel has a whole lot of Superman clones --- they act as a mere supplement for their stories, nothing more.

I loved the Count till Captain Danvers and Wolverine beat him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But Glads has no business on Earth, he is not interested in it.

Other than sending his son to Logan's school once.

Marvel has a whole lot of Superman clones --- they act as a mere supplement for their stories, nothing more.

Well the Guardians of the Galaxy then. He's a good character, and they're wasting him by placing him on a throne imo.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I loved the Count till Captain Danvers and Wolverine beat him.

Wolverine cuts through anything.

Terminus (who no-sold Mjolnir's physical and energy attacks), Post-Death amp Thanos w/ IG (lulz), Elder Gods, you name it. Including both Glads and Nefaria.

After he was opened up, it was only a matter for Carol to use her main (yet often forgotten) superpower and make him leak his Ionic energies in all directions.

Even before that book, Nefaria's track record wasn't exactly flawless.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well the Guardians of the Galaxy then. He's a good character, and they're wasting him by placing him on a throne imo.

I see what you're saying, yes.

And I'm trying to say that Marvel never exactly cares much for their Superman clones.

Is that a mistake? Perhaps, but it doesn't seem like they're going to change their mind about it.

indeed...

if they're gonna introduce them though, might as well run with one of them. i thought maybe they'd figure sentry out--who was also just different enough from supes to work i thought--but...yeah. they can't seem to work out the math when it comes to superman clones.

it would be fun to have glads stranded or exiled to earth for a mini series or something. have him learn about humanity. maybe then he could be made to fit in a little better.

and logan cut straight through glads too, so that's another thing they have in common....

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine cuts through anything.

Terminus (who no-sold Mjolnir's physical and energy attacks), Post-Death amp Thanos w/ IG (lulz), Elder Gods, you name it. Including both Glads and Nefaria.

After he was opened up, it was only a matter for Carol to use her main (yet often forgotten) superpower and make him leak his Ionic energies in all directions.

Even before that book, Nefaria's track record wasn't exactly flawless.



I see what you're saying, yes.

And I'm trying to say that Marvel never exactly cares much for their Superman clones.

Is that a mistake? Perhaps, but it doesn't seem like they're going to change their mind about it. I will always have fond memories of Graviton and Nefaria's sexually predatory behaviour in my favourite Avengers run. Honestly, The Shooter, Sal Buscema, Perez Avengers was my Avengers as a 10 year old boy in 1977.

To be honest the Moon Knight defeat might be even worse than Danvers and Wolverine.

^



Sure, old books were great.

Originally posted by leonidas
indeed...

if they're gonna introduce them though, might as well run with one of them. i thought maybe they'd figure sentry out--who was also just different enough from supes to work i thought--but...yeah. they can't seem to work out the math when it comes to superman clones.

it would be fun to have glads stranded or exiled to earth for a mini series or something. have him learn about humanity. maybe then he could be made to fit in a little better.

and logan cut straight through glads too, so that's another thing they have in common....



Moon Knight has cut Nefaria, too.

But... 1) CN might have been weakened, not sure 2) MK's claws, while not pure adamantium, were inspired by Wolverine's and they worked so he could damage tough stuff regardless of his human strength level.

Originally posted by leonidas
indeed...

if they're gonna introduce them though, might as well run with one of them. i thought maybe they'd figure sentry out--who was also just different enough from supes to work i thought--but...yeah. they can't seem to work out the math when it comes to superman clones.

it would be fun to have glads stranded or exiled to earth for a mini series or something. have him learn about humanity. maybe then he could be made to fit in a little better.

and logan cut straight through glads too, so that's another thing they have in common.... Yeah he did, and yet Logan can't cut Colossus usually. Marvel's internal logic is shit.Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
^



Sure, old books were great.





Moon Knight has cut Nefaria, too.

But... 1) CN might have been weakened, not sure 2) MK's claws, while not pure adamantium, were inspired by Wolverine's and they worked so he could damage tough stuff regardless of his human strength level. To be honest, the SUperior Octopus put up a fight. None of these people I see being an issue for Gladiator. Hell, even Doom wouldn't pose a threat straight up to Gladiator. Btw, I detest Gladiator as a character in every appearance but the one in the FF where Reed uses the projector to disrupt his confidence with Caps shield.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Yeah he did, and yet Logan can't cut Colossus usually. Marvel's internal logic is shit. To be honest, the SUperior Octopus put up a fight. None of these people I see being an issue for Gladiator. Hell, even Doom wouldn't pose a threat straight up to Gladiator. Btw, I detest Gladiator as a character in every appearance but the one in the FF where Reed uses the projector to disrupt his confidence with Caps shield.

Didn't they nerf Colossus' durability? I thought that his skin was the only thing that is turned into metal these days? That's dumb as well, but whatever right?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Yeah he did, and yet Logan can't cut Colossus usually. Marvel's internal logic is shit.

He can cut Colossus just fine... and did so in that very panel you're thinking of right now, which is ironically used in favour of Colossus, lol.

He hasn't exactly sliced Nefaria to pieces. Going by that logic, he can't "cut" him either, I guess?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Hell, even Doom wouldn't pose a threat straight up to Gladiator.

I wouldn't be so sure.

I could see him exploiting Glads' vulnerability:

https://i.imgur.com/ZtVQB9U.png

Doom is all about tricks like that.



Haven't read that one.



That book was pretty enjoyable.

Also, probably one of the best showings for Cap and his shield - blocking a barrage of Class 100+ blows coming at super-speed without flinching

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't they nerf Colossus' durability? I thought that his skin was the only thing that is turned into metal these days? That's dumb as well, but whatever right? Haven't kept up with the X men fully, read some of Hickman but not enough and not much for years before that, so I can't honestly tell you. I kind of went off them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He can cut Colossus just fine... and did so in that very panel you're thinking of right now, which is ironically used in favour of Colossus, lol.

He hasn't exactly sliced Nefaria to pieces. Going by that logic, he can't "cut" him either, I guess?



I wouldn't be so sure.

I could see him exploiting Glads' vulnerability:

https://i.imgur.com/ZtVQB9U.png

Doom is all about tricks like that.



Haven't read that one.



That book was pretty enjoyable.

Also, probably one of the best showings for Cap and his shield - blocking a barrage of Class 100+ blows coming at super-speed without flinching Oh, I love Doom, I have just seen him get his head handed to him in straight up fights with people like Namor and Hulk too often.

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't they nerf Colossus' durability? I thought that his skin was the only thing that is turned into metal these days? That's dumb as well, but whatever right?

They didn't nerf it, they upgraded it.

It's just not consistent at all what happens when you do damage him - sometimes he bleeds red, sometimes he bleeds blue, sometimes he doesn't bleed at all.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Haven't kept up with the X men fully, read some of Hickman but not enough and not much for years before that, so I can't honestly tell you. I kind of went off them.

Colossus' durability got boosted at least once, if not twice.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Oh, I love Doom, I have just seen him get his head handed to him in straight up fights with people like Namor and Hulk too often.

Sure, but that's the beauty of Dr. Doom.

He can get buttraped by Daredevil and beat Celestials on the next day.

Anyway, if he was able to get this crafty against Count:

https://abload.de/img/fantasticfour2014-005ycozr.jpg

Then I see no reason for him not to be able to beat Glads the same way. Only he would expose him to specific radiation, not drain him.

Plot device out of his butt, that's Doom's whole shtick.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Colossus' durability got boosted at least once, if not twice.



Sure, but that's the beauty of Dr. Doom.

He can get buttraped by Daredevil and beat Celestials on the next day.

Anyway, if he was able to get this crafty against Count:

https://abload.de/img/fantasticfour2014-005ycozr.jpg

Then I see no reason for him not to be able to beat Glads the same way. Only he would expose him to specific radiation, not drain him.

Plot device out of his butt, that's Doom's whole shtick. Everyone knows Nefaria is Ionic, wheras Gladiators "Argonite" or whatever the **** it was called isn't really a thing on Earth.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Everyone knows Nefaria is Ionic, wheras Gladiators "Argonite" or whatever the **** it was called isn't really a thing on Earth.

And why should it be a problem for Doom to acquire some extraterrestrial plot device?

But you're wrong, Whirl.

It very much is a thing:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/2/21012/470297-1.jpg

Glads gets sodomized after that.

Doom is smarter and far more resourceful than Hulk (even at his best).

Argonite is Hyperion's weakness, btw

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Argonite is Hyperion's weakness, btw Hah, I know!Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And why should it be a problem for Doom to acquire some extraterrestrial plot device?

But you're wrong, Whirl.

It very much is a thing:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/2/21012/470297-1.jpg

Glads gets sodomized after that.

Doom is smarter and far more resourceful than Hulk (even at his best). Doom doesn't tend to notice extraterrestrials till they come in contact with him. He got wtf owned by Terax.

Sure, he is not unbeatable.

But again --- you can mess Glads up by reflecting his own eyebeams at him or just with the good ol' Earthly radiation.

So I really can't see it as something above Doom's paygrade, as you keep suggesting.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sure, he is not unbeatable.

But again --- you can mess Glads up by reflecting his own eyebeams at him or just with the good ol' Earthly radiation.

So I really can't see it as something above Doom's paygrade, as you keep suggesting. Doom has had his moments, but straight up his been punked by Ben Grimm and Luke Cage.

I'm not saying Glads is incapable of beating him.

Almost anyone can, especially if Victor is wearing one of the older models of his armor.

But he's also the prep guy who pulls plot devices out of his ass on a regular basis --- that coupled with Gladiator's not-so-hard-to-exploit weakness makes it plausible for Vic to stomp him just as easily as he pwnt Nefaria.

Lmao.

You guys want to take the guy whose powers depend on his confidence....

Then fire him from his job, exile him from his home, and have him wander around either like a homeless hobo or on a dirtbag backwater planet like earth?

Good idea guys if there's one story I'd love to read, it's about mopey powerless aliens who can't even fit in physically amongst humans.

Hey, maybe that would teach him something. And get him some much needed character development.

He needs to be humbled, as apparently Cassandra making him wet his pants wasn't enough...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao.

You guys want to take the guy whose powers depend on his confidence....

Then fire him from his job, exile him from his home, and have him wander around either like a homeless hobo or on a dirtbag backwater planet like earth?

Good idea guys if there's one story I'd love to read, it's about mopey powerless aliens who can't even fit in physically amongst humans. yeah, i have never liked Gladiator. He deserves this and more.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
yeah, i have never liked Gladiator. He deserves this and more.

BUT FOR SOME REASON HE DOESN'T DESERVE GETTING DEFEATED BY DOOM, IN YOUR OPINION!



Even ignoring his uber tech, Doom has magic, you know.

And Strontians, much like Kryptonians, are vulnerable to it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
BUT FOR SOME REASON HE DOESN'T DESERVE GETTING DEFEATED BY DOOM, IN YOUR OPINION!



Even ignoring his uber tech, Doom has magic, you know.

And Strontians, much like Kryptonians, are vulnerable to it. they are, but it's years since I read Gladiators origin but when he got his boost, didn't he get a measure of magic resistance and if Nova Prime can break the crimson bands of Cyttorak, surely Mr Mohawk can.

The effectiveness of the bands depends on sorcerer's concentration.

Doom has more ways to sodomize Glads than he had with Nefaria.

You are trolling my soul at this point.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The effectiveness of the bands depends on sorcerer's concentration.

Doom has more ways to sodomize Glads than he had with Nefaria.

You are trolling my soul at this point. whilst I far prefer Doom, I don't see his baseline as a straight-up random encounter being high herald. Which whilst a term that disgusts me is where I see Gladiator, a character I am far less keen on. With prep, Doom every day and twice on Sunday. Random encounter; he needs luck.

Fair enough.

But... against Nefaria, it wasn't exactly random encounter, either.

At least that's now how I understood the scene.

Doom came to Italy to face Nefaria and he came prepared.



And you were like "no way it would happen to Glads" --- and I was like "yes it would", as prep makes Doom a god.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fair enough.

But... against Nefaria, it wasn't exactly random encounter, either.

At least that's now how I understood the scene.

Doom came to Italy to face Nefaria and he came prepared.



And you were like "no way it would happen to Glads" --- and I was like "yes it would", as prep makes Doom a god. Yeah, I guess he did come prepared for Nefaria. Still, the exploitation of flaws in Wonderman, Atlas and Nefaria, is an overly used Marvel plot device IMHO; that said, for Iron Man and Doom, it's almost a go-to. How the mighty fall... It's like Graviton and his trouble with heat.