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Savage Hulk vs Cassandra Cain (DCeased) with powers of Shazam

Hulk gets his butt kicked, pretty sure he struggled with a Mandarin child who used pressure points. Cass Batgirl with significantly more powerful stats will fold him haha.

Hulk

carver would never let Hulk hit a woman

Originally posted by FlawlessFridge
Hulk gets his butt kicked, pretty sure he struggled with a Mandarin child who used pressure points. Cass Batgirl with significantly more powerful stats will fold him haha.

He didn't really struggled. He later used Thunderclap. Pressure points didn't worked on Hulk, even from Karnak, who's a master of pressure points. Same with Iron Fiat, who tried to strike a Hulk with barrage of strikes and pressure points, claiming it can cripple a man, but Hulk was unfazed by that.

Valkyrie knocked him out with pressure points

Do we use the lows, or the highs here? Hmmmm.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Valkyrie knocked him out with pressure points

Yes. Samantha Parrington's Val.

She did trick the Hulk into letting his guard down, so she could get close enough and apply the nerve strike properly... but other than that, the KO was legit.

Makes you wonder if such tactics are viable in our versus matches.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
He didn't really struggled. He later used Thunderclap. Pressure points didn't worked on Hulk, even from Karnak, who's a master of pressure points. Same with Iron Fiat, who tried to strike a Hulk with barrage of strikes and pressure points, claiming it can cripple a man, but Hulk was unfazed by that.

All true and you could add more names to the list, but we have no idea how he would fare against someone with Cain's top-tier skill level and Batson's uber powerset (which includes not only super-strength, but speed as well).

Batman with Superman's powers has demolished the Justice League.

What has Cassie with Shazam's powers actually done on panel?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Valkyrie knocked him out with pressure points

Most of his showings pressure points don't work. Don't be that guy.

What guy?

im on k right now but cassie is my baby girl

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes. Samantha Parrington's Val.

She did trick the Hulk into letting his guard down, so she could get close enough and apply the nerve strike properly... but other than that, the KO was legit.

Makes you wonder if such tactics are viable in our versus matches.



All true and you could add more names to the list, but we have no idea how he would fare against someone with Cain's top-tier skill level and Batson's uber powerset (which includes not only super-strength, but speed as well).

Batman with Superman's powers has demolished the Justice League.

What has Cassie with Shazam's powers actually done on panel?

She had like, two appearances, lol.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7smMmxy/22.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XXq27NxB/23.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RVSyD41B/03.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sg183m0H/04.jpg

What is to note, however, is that the comic explicitly mentions how she still has her skills, so there is that, at least.

Don't see how any scans that's been posted so far proves she takes a single win against Hulk. Does she beat Shaggyman as well? Asking for a reason.

Has Shaggyman EVER had pressure point attacks work on him? Asking for a reason.

One showing doesn't override a list of showings where it didn't work. You've said this plenty of times. Would you like for me to give examples on one showing not overriding a character entire history?. I don't mind doing it even though it'll involve characters not involved in this thread.

Shaggyman isn't in this thread

Anyway, the examples given are poop. Iron Fist? Karnak? Neither of them are as strong as Shazam, so moot.

Of course, this assumes we take those statements for Cass at face value. You know how much we love statements

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She had like, two appearances, lol.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7smMmxy/22.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XXq27NxB/23.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RVSyD41B/03.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sg183m0H/04.jpg

What is to note, however, is that the comic explicitly mentions how she still has her skills, so there is that, at least.

Thanks

Who is that guy she stomped? "Anti-living CM junior"?

Yeah, it was Cap Marv Jr who had been possessed by the Antilife equation.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, it was Cap Marv Jr who had been possessed by the Antilife equation.

I see. In the Shazam family, he is the equivalent of Osiris from the Black Adam family, right?

Can't help but to wonder - I need to ask, why he wasn't renamed to be Shazam Junior?

Thought DC was trying their best to avoid mentioning that name these days.

He's probably shittier than Tawky Tawny, who at least ate Kalibak iirc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaggyman isn't in this thread

Anyway, the examples given are poop. Iron Fist? Karnak? Neither of them are as strong as Shazam, so moot.

Of course, this assumes we take those statements for Cass at face value. You know how much we love statements


Why do you think pressure points work?

Originally posted by carver9
Why do you think pressure points work?

Because the examples used for it failing are doodoo. Karnak? Seriously? When he failed, it explicitly said that Hulk had pressure points he could exploit, the problem was Karnak was too weak to take advantage.

https://i.postimg.cc/N0JbpCq7/qe-Uxw-Yg-d.webp

I mean, lol if we think Shazam is limited to elephant busting range.

Temugin used nerve strikes against Hulk. They worked.

Warpath targeted WWH's pressure points with his knives. They worked (until he popped the knives out). WWH of course, being stronger and better at everything compared to Savage

Valkyrie has already been mentioned.

I mean, was IF even using any degree of superstrength when hitting the Hulk?

BC Wolverine managed to hurt one of the most durable Hulk incarnations that way.

Cap had some limited success with pressure points, too (though they have completely failed when he was going for a KO).

I'm a big Hulk fan, but it's hard to imagine him no-selling a nerve spam like this:

https://i.ibb.co/GHvYhH3/main-qimg-15fb990b3f5d0a4ce2f149f71434e52e-lq.jpg

And thanks to Shazam's powerset, it would be doable. At least should be.

Too bad we haven't seen much from this amped version of Cassie, otherwise we wouldn't need to rely on our imagination so much.

Samantha-Val is the closest example we've got, stats-wise, to Shazam-Cain.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
BC Wolverine managed to hurt one of the most durable Hulk incarnations that way.

Cap had some limited success with pressure points, too (though they have completely failed when he was going for a KO).

I'm a big Hulk fan, but it's hard to imagine him no-selling a nerve spam like this:

https://i.ibb.co/GHvYhH3/main-qimg-15fb990b3f5d0a4ce2f149f71434e52e-lq.jpg

And thanks to Shazam's powerset, it would be doable. At least should be.

Too bad we haven't seen much from this amped version of Cassie, otherwise we wouldn't need to rely on our imagination so much.

Samantha-Val is the closest example we've got, stats-wise, to Shazam-Cain.

Yeah, I completely accept that it's all speculation because this is almost a Golgo thread, where one side (DC) has like zero feats, lol.

But it is interesting that in the same storyline, at least Constantine managed to actually use the Wisdom of Shazam (a pet peeve of mine, so on a minor tangent, though not as tangential as using Shaggy Man, lmao) to bolster his fighting efficiency:

https://i.postimg.cc/k2V2qvJz/16.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/gw8r6c6K/17.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/TKZpw5hw/18.jpg

I liked it as a fight scene. Showed how powerful Trigon was.

So how we are even comparing pressure points done by regular or slightly above human beings to a pressure point done by a high herald is beyond me.

Of course a pressure point wouldn't work when you can't apply enough pressure to even slightly indent the skin.

Hulk better get real mad real quick if he wants to win.

Cain-8/10

You're the one to talk, Shadow

https://i.ibb.co/6XX1SYH/6500158-1233.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
BC Wolverine managed to hurt one of the most durable Hulk incarnations that way.

Cap had some limited success with pressure points, too (though they have completely failed when he was going for a KO).

I'm a big Hulk fan, but it's hard to imagine him no-selling a nerve spam like this:

https://i.ibb.co/GHvYhH3/main-qimg-15fb990b3f5d0a4ce2f149f71434e52e-lq.jpg

And thanks to Shazam's powerset, it would be doable. At least should be.

Too bad we haven't seen much from this amped version of Cassie, otherwise we wouldn't need to rely on our imagination so much.

Samantha-Val is the closest example we've got, stats-wise, to Shazam-Cain.

I definitely believe Hulk would feel it.

Temugin used his chi-amped pressure points (I don't remeber Cassandra having any chi), but it only made Hulk angrier and he thunder-clapped Temujin.

Hulk also taken pressure points from Iron Fist and even no-sold his Iron Fist (no puns intended). And Karnak may be isn't very strong physically, but in comics it's not that directly linked (small girls like Cassandra Cain can knock out metahumans, for example, without using pressure points) and Karnak's main strength is his ability to feel and see any weak spots in everywhere.

Anyway, I doubt Cassandra Cain could win against Hulk, at best she can only hurt him, but it makes him even angrier.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because the examples used for it failing are doodoo. Karnak? Seriously? When he failed, it explicitly said that Hulk had pressure points he could exploit, the problem was Karnak was too weak to take advantage.

https://i.postimg.cc/N0JbpCq7/qe-Uxw-Yg-d.webp

I mean, lol if we think Shazam is limited to elephant busting range.

Temugin used nerve strikes against Hulk. They worked.

Warpath targeted WWH's pressure points with his knives. They worked (until he popped the knives out). WWH of course, being stronger and better at everything compared to Savage

Valkyrie has already been mentioned.

I mean, was IF even using any degree of superstrength when hitting the Hulk?

So the times it didn't work, we are just going to ignore that? Also, does Cassandra strictly use pressure points in combat? Also, based off fts, Hulk is faster 🤔

Originally posted by carver9
So the times it didn't work, we are just going to ignore that? Also, does Cassandra strictly use pressure points in combat? Also, based off fts, Hulk is faster 🤔

How strong were the characters when it failed? Because yes.

Your argument is like saying Captain America failed to lift a tank, therefore tanks are immune to being lifted

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How strong were the characters when it failed? Because yes.

Your argument is like saying Captain America failed to lift a tank, therefore tanks are immune to being lifted

Scans of Cassy in this form going for pressure point attacks.

Originally posted by carver9
Scans of Cassy in this form going for pressure point attacks.

You won't find them - but she doesn't magically forget all of her skills.

If anything, Wisdom of Solomon should make her more formidable in that department.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
I definitely believe Hulk would feel it.

Temugin used his chi-amped pressure points (I don't remeber Cassandra having any chi), but it only made Hulk angrier and he thunder-clapped Temujin.

Hulk also taken pressure points from Iron Fist and even no-sold his Iron Fist (no puns intended). And Karnak may be isn't very strong physically, but in comics it's not that directly linked (small girls like Cassandra Cain can knock out metahumans, for example, without using pressure points) and Karnak's main strength is his ability to feel and see any weak spots in everywhere.

Anyway, I doubt Cassandra Cain could win against Hulk, at best she can only hurt him, but it makes him even angrier.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

It's just that the power-up Cassie has here is truly massive; we're talking about the Superman-tier power level. And her unique skills on top of that.

It is a combo of those that poses a threat to the Hulk - it's not *just* strength, *just* speed or *just* skills.

As already stated, this is just us discussing Cassie's true potential with Shazam's powerset properly utilized - on-panel, she has barely done anything.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You won't find them - but she doesn't magically forget all of her skills.

If anything, Wisdom of Solomon should make her more formidable in that department.

Don't think that's how this works.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think that's how this works.

You're not only making duck lips while taking selfies, you're also the king of all hypocrites?

"Hulk is Hulk" - carver9

You said it only like a trillion times haw-som

She doesn't become a new character just because of new powers at her disposal.

And if you were addressing the Wisdom of Solomon part... well...

*bumpty bump*

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, I completely accept that it's all speculation because this is almost a Golgo thread, where one side (DC) has like zero feats, lol.

But it is interesting that in the same storyline, at least Constantine managed to actually use the Wisdom of Shazam (a pet peeve of mine, so on a minor tangent, though not as tangential as using Shaggy Man, lmao) to bolster his fighting efficiency:

https://i.postimg.cc/k2V2qvJz/16.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/gw8r6c6K/17.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/TKZpw5hw/18.jpg

I liked it as a fight scene. Showed how powerful Trigon was.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're not only making duck lips while taking selfies, you're also the king of all hypocrites?

"Hulk is Hulk" - carver9

You said it only like a trillion times haw-som

She doesn't become a new character just because of new powers at her disposal.

Hulk is Hulk but Cassy doesn't all of a sudden just start aiming for pressure points when she prefers just punching her enemies to sleep. In character is on here. Then factor in her having God like powers, I feel certain that wouldn't be her first option.

In-character, she has used pressure points on humans, metas and giant monsters alike.

Gotcha. Hulk speed blitz her

Speed of Mercury means nothing now, eh?

And if we want feats, she's ripping Amazos which were explicitly, according to narration, strong enough to take on the JLA on their own. Including Flash and WW.

But most importantly, let's not fall victim to Carver's usual goal moving. Pressure points work on Hulk, ESPECIALLY when backed up by enough super strength.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Speed of Mercury means nothing now, eh?

And if we want feats, she's ripping Amazos which were explicitly, according to narration, strong enough to take on the JLA on their own. Including Flash and WW.

But most importantly, let's not fall victim to Carver's usual goal moving. Pressure points work on Hulk, ESPECIALLY when backed up by enough super strength.

I wouldn't be too sure about the speed of mercury being above the speed of Hermes aka the one WW has. And a serious Flash. But other than that. All that you said is true. She has the strength and speed level needed for her preasure points to work.

She has the strength, speed, and, most importantly, the skills. She was the best h2h fighter on the planet before her upgrade, and now she has the Wisdom of Solomon, which the writer (at long last!!) acknowledges can be used to boost your fighting skill.

Nice of the writer to also acknowledge that users can amp their strikes with the Power of Zeus. Not usually seen when writing Shazam, so it was nice.

Now, would Cassandra amp her strikes? Well, as lightning isn't a base power of the Batfamily, and all her depictions show her with lightning, I'd say yes.

Then there is BFR.

preasure = combo of pleasure and pressure?

Only Nvr could've thought of something like that

@Smurph...I never said it would work but what I did say is Hulk is faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Speed of Mercury means nothing now, eh?

And if we want feats, she's ripping Amazos which were explicitly, according to narration, strong enough to take on the JLA on their own. Including Flash and WW.

But most importantly, let's not fall victim to Carver's usual goal moving. Pressure points work on Hulk, ESPECIALLY when backed up by enough super strength.

Show me her speed fts. We are not assuming anything here. Someone getting Supermans power, we wouldn't use the low showing from the imposter against Superman.

She wasn't the only one fighting Amazo and Amazo isn't a good indication of speed (unless it's actually mentioned on panel). Hulk keeping up with Gladiator and Hyperion doesn't mean Hulk is FTL.

She won't use pressure points and it won't work.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me her speed fts. We are not assuming anything here. Someone getting Supermans power, we wouldn't use the low showing from the imposter against Superman.

She wasn't the only one fighting Amazo and Amazo isn't a good indication of speed (unless it's actually mentioned on panel). Hulk keeping up with Gladiator and Hyperion doesn't mean Hulk is FTL.

She won't use pressure points and it won't work.

Prove that it won't work.

Cassie's regular speed is pretty damn good, from what I recall.

I'm ancient enough to remember that time when a whole ocean of cum from Phil's penis flooded KMC when he beat Srank in a bz:

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=497150&pagenumber=1

Her speed is great but nowhere near Hulks best.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prove that it won't work.

Cap and Tem tried and failed.

So iyo, Cassie is as strong as them? If Cap tries and fails to lift a plane (lol), would Hulk fail too?

Temugin succeeded, btw. Hulk was hurt by his strikes.

He was hurt but it didn't absolutely nothing in the end. She won't be able to even attempt that anys since Hulk is faster.

So Cap and Temugin are as strong and as fast as Shazam?

Originally posted by DantasKEdc
Savage Hulk vs Cassandra Cain (DCeased) with powers of Shazam


Cass doesn't need powers to beat Hulk.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cassie's regular speed is pretty damn good, from what I recall.

I'm ancient enough to remember that time when a whole ocean of cum from Phil's penis flooded KMC when he beat Srank in a bz:

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=497150&pagenumber=1 Damn, now that's a blast from the past.

It's so old you haven't even started centering your text.

I also had discovered thumbnails, and I wasn't about to give them up for simple links.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Cap and Temugin are as strong and as fast as Shazam?

This isn't how we debate, lmmfao. Faster opponents get hit all of the time in comics (I learned this from someone). So you mentioning them hitting Hulk is irrelevant here.


Cap did 0 to Hulk and Tem used chi.

Originally posted by carver9
This isn't how we debate, lmmfao. Faster opponents get hit all of the time in comics (I learned this from someone). So you mentioning them hitting Hulk is irrelevant here.


Cap did 0 to Hulk and Tem used chi.

Wut?

Your logic is completely nonexistent, despite your pathetic attempts to dodge.

How strong was Temugin in that instance when he hurt Hulk? You saying 'he used chi' is a red herring. Did Valkyrie use chi? Did Warpath?

Let's say we give Cap WW level strength (maybe this will help you understand your bias). Would his attacks still do nothing?

My question still stands. Just because Cap failed to do something, doesn't mean someone with Shazam level strength would fail to do the same thing- maybe you're too stupid to understand that. Read my posts, stop, think about it, read it again, think, read again, then post.

If Cap fails to dent a metal wall with his punches, does that mean Hercules would fail too? Think about it

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wut?

Your logic is completely nonexistent, despite your pathetic attempts to dodge.

How strong was Temugin in that instance when he hurt Hulk? You saying 'he used chi' is a red herring. Did Valkyrie use chi? Did Warpath?

Let's say we give Cap WW level strength (maybe this will help you understand your bias). Would his attacks still do nothing?

My question still stands. Just because Cap failed to do something, doesn't mean someone with Shazam level strength would fail to do the same thing- maybe you're too stupid to understand that. Read my posts, stop, think about it, read it again, think, read again, then post.

If Cap fails to dent a metal wall with his punches, does that mean Hercules would fail too? Think about it

Tem doesn't need strength since he is Chi amping his attacks. Look at the scene, please. Chi is treated like magic in Marvel AND DC. Warpath used vibranium. Energy absorbing weapons. Post the Val scene.

I'm not answering the Wonder Woman question. She isn't in this thread.

I get what you are saying but what I'm mentioning is, the examples you gave doesn't match up with your argument, that's all.

Lmao.

Ok, we have a wall.

Cap punches it. Nothing happens.

Temugin punches it. It dents.

Valkyrie punches it. It smashes.

Warpath stabs it (lol at you grasping at straws now.....the point here is that his muscles were locked up by the stabs) - it smashes.

Now, Hercules punches this same wall. Your argument is that because Cap punched it and nothing happened, and when Temugin punched it all that happened was that it got dented with no real damage, if Hercules punches it nothing will happen, is stupid.

Wonder Man did beat Rulk with the Million Dollar Dream hold stolen from Ted DiBiase.

WBN choked the Savage Hulk out with a hold of his own.

--
Hulk is a tough case, because his nigh-invulnerability, regen and rather unique physiology in general that make him ignore most attacks.

But Cassie not only has her extreme skill and body-reading ability here, she also has the super-strength, super-speed and WoS.

And since it's a forum discussion, hard not to bring up the possibility of spam-attacks.

It's not some anti-Hulk thing; people do the same in Spider-Man ("omfg, his webs stopped a tsunami!!!!!!" or Cyclops ("GOML Blast for the win!!!!!!" threads.

--
And, as admitted several times already, it's all based on speculation and what we know about Cassie and the Shazam powerset... there's little more to work with, frankly, given how brief that power-up was.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wonder Man did beat Rulk with the Million Dollar Dream hold stolen from Ted DiBiase.

WBN choked the Savage Hulk out with a hold of his own.

--
Hulk is a tough case, because his nigh-invulnerability, regen and rather unique physiology in general that make him ignore most attacks.

But Cassie not only has her extreme skill and body-reading ability here, she also has the super-strength, super-speed and WoS.

And since it's a forum discussion, hard not to bring up the possibility of spam-attacks.

It's not some anti-Hulk thing; people do the same in Spider-Man ("omfg, his webs stopped a tsunami!!!!!!" or Cyclops ("GOML Blast for the win!!!!!!" threads.

--
And, as admitted several times already, it's all based on speculation and what we know about Cassie and the Shazam powerset... there's little more to work with, frankly, given how brief that power-up was.

Alright, but at first OP should determine which one exact version of Cassandra Cain he use here. If it's Cassandra with power ups, then okay, she could win. If it's just a normal Cassandra without power ups, therefore in my opinion she won't really win under that circumstances, because even with all of her agility, speed and skills, it hardly would work against Hulk.

OP said it's Cassandra with the powers of Shazam.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP said it's Cassandra with the powers of Shazam.

Ah, my bad. Didn't noticed it.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Alright, but at first OP should determine which one exact version of Cassandra Cain he use here. If it's Cassandra with power ups, then okay, she could win. If it's just a normal Cassandra without power ups, therefore in my opinion she won't really win under that circumstances, because even with all of her agility, speed and skills, it hardly would work against Hulk.

It's definitely not a normal Cassie.

Read the original post again:

Originally posted by DantasKEdc
Savage Hulk vs Cassandra Cain (DCeased) with powers of Shazam

--

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Ah, my bad. Didn't noticed it.



While this forum is biased against the Hulk, it doesn't mean we believe a street girl could pummel him senseless, lol.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's definitely not a normal Cassie.

Read the original post again:



--





While this forum is biased against the Hulk, it doesn't mean we believe a street girl could pummel him senseless, lol.


Speak for yourself. 😤😤😤

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

While this forum is biased against the Hulk, it doesn't mean we believe a street girl could pummel him senseless, lol.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Carver once more, however, not understanding that nobody hates Hulk, we only dislike Carver lol.

Question about Cass's normal power set:

She sidestepped bullets like she was from The Matrix, had precog nearly on a peak Spidey level, yet struggled with that meta in a skirt.


So my question is how fast is that meta? Batman beat her easy, and Cass cold KO'd her when she was hallucinating, yet could never manage her normally.

Thinking PIS, because she didn't seem anything special otherwise.

Cassie still makes rookie mistakes and has a habit depending on her body-reading ability too much.

Her potential aside, she's just a brainwashed kid trying to fight her programming and learn how to live a "normal" life in a batcave full of other kids.

Slade and Joker exploited that, too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cassie still makes rookie mistakes and has a habit depending on her body-reading ability too much.

Her potential aside, she's just a brainwashed kid trying to fight her programming and learn how to live a "normal" life in a batcave full of other kids.

Slade and Joker exploited that, too.

You might appreciate this:


https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Batgirl-Superboy-friends.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=1400&dpr=1.5


"You still want to make out?"

"No."

"That's a relief!"

I have no words.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cassie still makes rookie mistakes and has a habit depending on her body-reading ability too much.

Her potential aside, she's just a brainwashed kid trying to fight her programming and learn how to live a "normal" life in a batcave full of other kids.

Slade and Joker exploited that, too.

Plus, even with all of her skills and abilities, she was bested by Batman in a sparring match, overwhelmed by Red Hood and even Nightwing schooled her. And also, Cassie struggled with Shiva (her mother) and with her daddy David Cain (yes, she still beaten him, but at first he got the upperhand and Cassie defeated him only when she snapped and unleashed herself).

Which is why the Wisdom of Solomon is so deadly here.

It amps a kid like Billy Batson to Cap Marvel levels, imagine what levels a trained killer would do with those powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which is why the Wisdom of Solomon is so deadly here.

It amps a kid like Billy Batson to Cap Marvel levels, imagine what levels a trained killer would do with those powers.

Unlike Adam, the wisdom also stopped him from revealing his identity to the JSA even though he wanted to (Why he couldn't simply tell them as Billy Batson is a mystery)


Meaning Shazam may have imposed a morality lock. That or the source of his power exerts some control towards the Paragon side.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not answering the Wonder Woman question. She isn't in this thread.


Let me fix that for you.

Originally posted by carver9
Answering that will utterly expose me and I'm a coward so I'll pretend the analogy is irrelevant.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Valkyrie knocked him out with pressure points

Originally posted by Stoic
Do we use the lows, or the highs here? Hmmmm.

Is it actually a low showing? All the examples I've seen trying to defend Hulk from pressure points are from opponents weaker than Valkyrie.

Didn't Cap successfully use pressure points on Hulk?

Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't Cap successfully use pressure points on Hulk?

Yes and no.

Did a good job initially with tossing him out of Rick's apartment, but failed to KO him when going for the neck spot.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes and no.

Did a good job initially with tossing him out of Rick's apartment, but failed to KO him when going for the neck spot.

So they effected Hulk but not a KO?

No effect at all, IIRC.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So they effected Hulk but not a KO?

To a degree, yes; worked well enough to get him out of the way, so cops could enter Rick's house:

https://i.ibb.co/rQVLkFB/prof01.jpg

But they proved futile when Cap wanted to take him down, when he was distracted by Doc Samson:

https://i.ibb.co/FwPLFgT/prof02.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To a degree, yes; worked well enough to get him out of the way, so cops could enter Rick's house:

https://i.ibb.co/rQVLkFB/prof01.jpg

But they proved futile when Cap wanted to take him down, when he was distracted by Doc Samson:

https://i.ibb.co/FwPLFgT/prof02.jpg

He learned his lesson:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/2/28811/719875-0000002.jpg

And just beat the green crap out of him.

That Fallen Son flashback takes place before PAD's run.

So if anyone learned his lesson, it was the Hulk.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To a degree, yes; worked well enough to get him out of the way, so cops could enter Rick's house:

https://i.ibb.co/rQVLkFB/prof01.jpg

But they proved futile when Cap wanted to take him down, when he was distracted by Doc Samson:

https://i.ibb.co/FwPLFgT/prof02.jpg

Maybe dynamic strength kicked in enough later?

Basically, in that scan Cap was too weak to affect Hulk. You can see Hulk was able to twist his head out of the lock, even though Cap is drawn as straining.

Which makes sense, considering the power levels these guys play at.

Someone doing the same with the strength and power of Shazam, however, shouldn't have the same problem.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Basically, in that scan Cap was too weak to affect Hulk. You can see Hulk was able to twist his head out of the lock, even though Cap is drawn as straining.

Which makes sense, considering the power levels these guys play at.

Someone doing the same with the strength and power of Shazam, however, shouldn't have the same problem.

Going by the dialogue it seemed like the writer intended it to work in the first scan, hence the point about dynamic powers.

And yeah, this was strictly about the Cap example, not on stronger opponents. But it seems to sometimes work even with human level opponents.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Maybe dynamic strength kicked in enough later?

It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.

Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But it seems to sometimes work even with human level opponents.

Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.

He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).


--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.

Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.

Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.

Yes but to me the dialogue makes it look like the writer intended this to be a pressure point.

And that's something that I haven't seen addressed on Valkyrie. Calling it a low showing.....because it's a low showing? I would think if it was a low showing there would be examples of someone stronger than her failing with them.



Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.

He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).


--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.

Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.

Probably the reason why carter is saying they won't work because they won't because because. He knows he can't argue against Superman using them effectively beyond arguing it's not something he usually does. He knows Hulk ending up on the receiving end of that would be like this.

MLjclbgnAPM

And that was the last time carter ever wore white face and impersonated Chris Hanson.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Yes but to me the dialogue makes it look like the writer intended this to be a pressure point.

Because it was.

But some pressure point attacks need more time and/or force before they start giving desired results (rather than those instantaneous simple-poke-magical-touch), headlocks in particular.

Alternatively, you could argue that Cap missed the right nerve somehow.

Fun fact: Werewolf by Night did knock the Hulk out using the same hold. He's certainly not as skilled as Steve, but he is stronger.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And that's something that I haven't seen addressed on Valkyrie. Calling it a low showing.....because it's a low showing? I would think if it was a low showing there would be examples of someone stronger than her failing with them.

There is Temugin, who beats the crap out of Iron Man with his bare hands.

His chi-amped nerve strikes hurt the Hulk, but didn't stop him from fighting back and beating Temugin on the same page.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Probably the reason why carter is saying they won't work because they won't because because. He knows he can't argue against Superman using them effectively beyond arguing it's not something he usually does. He knows Hulk ending up on the receiving end of that would be like this.

MLjclbgnAPM

And that was the last time carter ever wore white face and impersonated Chris Hanson.

Carv just wants the Hulk to be unbeatable in any Vs. match he is in. It's really as simple as that.

He calls that "debating".

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because it was.

But some pressure point attacks need more time and/or force before they start giving desired results (rather than those instantaneous simple-poke-magical-touch), headlocks in particular.

Alternatively, you could argue that Cap missed the right nerve somehow.

Fun fact: Werewolf by Night did knock the Hulk out using the same hold. He's certainly not as skilled as Steve, but he is stronger.



There is Temugin, who beats the crap out of Iron Man with his bare hands.

His chi-amped nerve strikes hurt the Hulk, but didn't stop him from fighting back and beating Temugin on the same page.



Carv just wants the Hulk to be unbeatable in any Vs. match he is in. It's really as simple as that.

He calls that "debating".

How strong is Werewolf?

And carter buys his own hype. I've been on Xbox with him and he was arrogant and cocky about one of my threads acting like he won, laughing at me telling how I wrecked him, only for him to read through and his tone changed to surprise and he said, "It didn't go how I remember."

But given he couldn't remember he told us his own name, it doesn't surprise me.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.

Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.



Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.

He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).


--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.

Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.


Luke Cage and his inconsistent durability.


Remember that time he tanked a full power Iron Fist under Claremont? And in the very next issue by Claremont he hurt his hands trying to hit robot bank robbers, got beat down by same robots, who got shredded in one Iron Fist?

Originally posted by Delta1938
How strong is Werewolf?

Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.

Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But given he couldn't remember he told us his own name, it doesn't surprise me.

At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.

Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.



At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.

So far less strong and skilled and still succeeded with what carter claims won't work. Hmmmmm.....

I wonder if he has to be reminded how to put his pants on each day.

What character could defeat Iron Fist with the strength of Blue Marvel? Probably not many, which is why the martial arts characters seem to always have Olympic level stats.

Originally posted by Stoic
What character could defeat Iron Fist with the strength of Blue Marvel? Probably not many, which is why the martial arts characters seem to always have Olympic level stats.
Or they conveniently forget it for plot.

Carv is afraid if he acknowledges it in here, then Supes can spam nerve strikes all day.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or they conveniently forget it for plot.

Carv is afraid if he acknowledges it in here, then Supes can spam nerve strikes all day.

So tempted to make a thread of Superman vs Hulk but with nerve strike spam blitz. Must.....resist.....

Originally posted by cdtm
Luke Cage and his inconsistent durability.


Remember that time he tanked a full power Iron Fist under Claremont? And in the very next issue by Claremont he hurt his hands trying to hit robot bank robbers, got beat down by same robots, who got shredded in one Iron Fist?

It proofs than even same writer doesn't guarantee a consistency. Because plot demands otherwise.

Stan Lee himself said "If I want Spider-Man to win, I makes Spider-Man win! If I want Thing to win, I make thing win!"

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.

Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.



At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.

Werewolf By Night definitely needs his own respect thread!