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Superboy Prime vs universe 616

Prime punches it once and it dies.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Prime punches it once and it dies.

A lot of people can solo this.

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of people can solo this.

Agreed. Many can solo 616.

Lol... we both know that's not what I'm saying.

the list of people from dc that can solo marvel is longer than my ignore list

Originally posted by MrMind
the list of people from dc that can solo marvel is longer than my ignore list

So 0 then?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
So 0 then?

more like 100 give or take

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of people can solo this.
Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed. Many can solo 616.

Lol

Originally posted by MrMind
more like 100 give or take

Jokes aside who would you say could solo 616? Obviously not all 100 but just a few.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Prime punches it once and it dies. Originally posted by carver9
A lot of people can solo this. Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed. Many can solo 616. I don't know if I like all this agreement among different factions of KMC or not. mmm

Originally posted by Badabing
I don't know if I like all this agreement among different factions of KMC or not. mmm

Ban them all. Just to be safe.

That's a good idea.

Originally posted by DantasKEdc
Superboy Prime vs universe 616

He could beat Marvel Earth thats for sure but he aint taking out the 616 universe.

DCs cosmics might limit themselves to fisticuffs and basic energy blasts to give Prime a fighting chance but in Marvel he would get dispatched through reality warping, time manipulation, or high level matter manipulation.

Prime causes havoc before his reign of terror gets brought to a halt by the Marvel big boys who fight like someone of their station should.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
reality warping, time manipulation, or high level matter manipulation.



dc cosmics>>>>marvel cosmics

Originally posted by MrMind
dc cosmics>>>>marvel cosmics

Some of them are for sure and some Marvel ones are greater than dc ones. Thats besides the point.

My previous comment still stands strong

Originally posted by Badabing
That's a good idea.

lol at thinking reality warping would work against prime, dk and perpetua were nigh omnipotent hyper gods

5th dimension imps can reality warp and manipulate time/matter and they are all below the likes of DK and Perpetua

Originally posted by MrMind
lol at thinking reality warping would work against prime, dk and perpetua were nigh omnipotent hyper gods

5th dimension imps can reality warp and manipulate time/matter and they are all below the likes of DK and Perpetua

Stop with the ABC logic.

Its basic and isnt a secure line of argument.
A's more powerful than B, C defeated A, therefore C can automatically beat B to.

Does not work like that.


Darkest Knight for all of his abilities did nothing against Prime bar engage him in fisticuffs and use basic energy blasts. There was zero high level abilities utilized by DK against Prime in that fight bar the kind of tactics you'd see in a typical Avengers battle.

Whether that was character induced stupidity (look up the forum rules)or he was tired after his battle with Perpetua and operating at a reduced capacity. Who knows? What we do know is he didnt fight in a manner befitting someone of his alleged power level.

What does that mean?

You cant therefore say Darkest Knights capable of wiping out a multiverse, Superboy Prime defeated Darkest Knight, 616 is just a universe which means a Superboy Prime auto-win!

That is ABC logic at its finest. Its basic and flawed logically.

A cobra can take out a lion, a mongoose can take out a cobra, auto-win for mongoose against lion.

You have to consider context i.e what happened before the battle, were there any factors boosting or hindering any characters abilities during the battle, were both characters fighting to the best of their ability or was CIS/PIS(Look up forum rules) a factor?

A comic book battle and a forum battle are two very different things. In a forum battle PIS/CIS are not factors. We look at a characters demonstrated abilities and then do a walkthrough of a hypothetical all out battle. DK with all of that Dr Manhattan power and Crisis energy without having just battled Perpetua and using his abilities to their fullest extent would wipe the floor with Superboy Prime 10/10.

Stop with the ABC logic. Some of you are grown men. You're too intelligent for this.

Its like Magneto fighting Wolverine on panel but instead of using the full range of his abilities he settles for fisticuffs and occasionally swatting Wolverine with a nearby iron bar.

Wolverine understandably whups Magneto.

Then from that point on everyone who Magneto has ever defeated Wolverine is given an auto-win over them.

Who debates like that?

There's like 100s of people that could just snatch Prime powers away from him with ease. Hundreds of people solo.

Originally posted by MrMind
lol at thinking reality warping would work against prime, dk and perpetua were nigh omnipotent hyper gods

5th dimension imps can reality warp and manipulate time/matter and they are all below the likes of DK and Perpetua Pretty much, Prime's magic resistance seems to extend to all haxx shite.

Given DKs abilities, the fact that he didnt employ them to deal with Superboy Prime indicates either Character Induced Stupidity (CIS) or it indicates that he was operating at reduced capacity following battling Perpetua, then exerting power repairing planetary disruption. All immediately before battling Superboy.

A comic book battle is different to a forum battle. I reiterate...a comic battle is different to a forum battle.

NO PIS/CIS.

Full range of officially confirmed abilities are brought to the table (zero fan assumptions/unverified interpretations) and then we talk through a hypothetical all out brawl.

Kryptonians arent immortal, theyre just long lived.

Eternity utilizes chronal manipulation and ages SBP to dust.

Eternity traps SBP in a time-loop at the end of the universal timeline where there are no stars and laughs as SBP eventually burns through his energy reserves and then flicks him out of existence

Or Eternity simply turns all the universes stars into red suns and laughs at SBP becoming about as useful as Magikarp

Eternity absorbs all solar energy out of SBPs body laughs at his emaciated form and then flicks him out of existence

People say that SBP cant be affected by reality warping himself. If thats true then thats fine, Eternity just manipulates the laws of reality around him. Eternity changes the laws of physics so that flight and physical traversal are an impossibility for SBP. He then leaves SBP Prime to age over eons whilst in a permanent stationary position

Shazam and Black Adam were recently able to take out SBP with a combined magic attack showing he has a resistance to magic and not an immunity. Eternity is the largest concentration of mystical energy within Marvel. Eternity would casually Alakazam that ass.

DK on the other hand resorted to fisticuffs

Yet we're supposed to ignore the fact that DK didnt use 99% of his abilities and just say yay Superboy the greatest!

SHAZAM!

https://imgur.com/NH2lIPL

https://imgur.com/Vaf3X0S

Context and logic will prevail.

Down with ABC logic!

Down with fan-fiction!

Say it with me people....SHAZAM!

Prime does this to TOAA and destroys marvel.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y467TzgT/887-C2-ED2-27-FF-4-DF9-9-DDB-8-DD9-E2736687.jpg

1) The Perpetua vs DK battle was all energy manipulation and matter manipulation. 1st them using cosmic energy attacks on each other:

https://imgur.com/tW80S59
https://imgur.com/qy8Yar1

Then DK manipulating the matter of the Source Wall to encase Perpetua:

https://imgur.com/ryG9LMb

Entirely different to the slugfest of SBP vs DK.

You talk of how SBP attacked DK and realities were affected. Of course they were. DK was the power who was creating and maintaining those realities so it stands to reason that attacking DK would have a knock on effect. For example if Jean Grey was maintaining a psionic illusion in peoples minds and she was attacked and had to divert her power that illusion would shatter as a knock on effect.

All stands to reason. See how its all easily explained without any supposition or assumptions? We know DKs power was behind the realities and DK was attacked thereby affecting what his power was maintaining.

2) That answer does not address my point. Youre just reiterating what happened i.e DK battled Perpetua then repaired damage created by the heroes. So youre doing exactly what i said, instead of presenting artistic depiction or conclusive statement verifying DK regained his power, youre looking at the fact that he repaired the planet and making the assumption that means he regained his power. That isnt stated anywhere. All we know is that he battled Perpetua, then repaired a planet. Tiring work. Could explain his showing against SBP

3) All these powers and yet whilst he engaged in energy manipulation and matter manipulation against Perpetua, all we saw depicted on panel against SBP was energy fuelled fisticuffs. So either CIS or he was arguably operating at reduced capacity after battling Perpetua, restoring damage done by the heroes then battling SBP all in close succession

Originally posted by Diesldude
Prime does this to TOAA and destroys marvel.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y467TzgT/887-C2-ED2-27-FF-4-DF9-9-DDB-8-DD9-E2736687.jpg

SBP is handled by numerous Marvel cosmics.

Abstracts, Phoenix Force, cube beings and Celestials.

Based on his demonstrated vulnerability to sufficiently powerful magic id even argue a Classic Odin could take him out.

High level energy manipulation, chronal and reality manipulation and sufficient magical force could deal with this upstart without any problem

Context people.

Do not let the stans overhype these characters. You can all read.

Superboy Prime and his limited power set is not taking out a high level cosmic, reality warper or magic practitioner who use the full range of their abilities and dont handicap themselves by engaging in a slugfest.

Galactic, why are you debating against Diesldude...

Originally posted by carver9
Galactic, why are you debating against Diesldude...

Hes still new to me, I like to give everyone a chance.

You>>>>>>>>Diesldude. I wish you the best of luck.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Pretty much, Prime's magic resistance seems to extend to all haxx shite.

SHAZAM

https://imgur.com/Vaf3X0S

I guess Shazam and Black Adam exceed that threshold

Superboy Prime is not some ascended cosmic being whose nature is beyond space and time. He is a part of space/time meaning that any high level reality or chronal manipulator has his measure.

He is a physical being with limits and energy needs. He is not immortal

He can be chronally aged to dust.
He can be rendered ineffective by red sun radiation.
He can be mystically harmed.
The laws of physics which he is subject to can be turned against him.

DK is capable of all of these things and yet resorted to none of them. That is CIS or an indication that at that point in the story after battling Perpetua, then repairing planetary damage he was not at full capacity.

There is no other explanation.

DKs showing in that battle is not representative of what other beings could no when not subject to the same conditions as DK. I.e. temporary retardation or battle weariness. They would be fresh and able to use their full range of powers.

Originally posted by carver9
You>>>>>>>>Diesldude. I wish you the best of luck.

Marvel characters who could beat Superboy Prime in no particular order

Classic Odin
Dr Strange with prep
Rune King Thor
Cosmic Thor
Kubik
Beyonder
Molecule Man
Celestials
Eternity
Infinity
Love
Hate
Chaos
Order
Anomaly
Phoenix Force
White Crown Phoenix
Thanos with IG
Thanos with HOTI
Thanos with cosmic cube

Marquis of Death to

Originally posted by Badabing
I don't know if I like all this agreement among different factions of KMC or not. mmm

You forgot the Phoenix Force Bada

Diesldude...unless youre going to show us where its stated on panel that DK was back at full power after fighting Perpetua or that DK was doing more than just having an energy fuelled punch up with Superboy Prime after a long battle with Perpetua and restoring planetary damage then save it.

No one needs to see a repost of scans coupled with your opinion on what they show. Show conclusive statements or leave it at that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
SHAZAM

https://imgur.com/Vaf3X0S

I guess Shazam and Black Adam exceed that threshold

ignoring context and making assumptions.

I didnt single anyone out. I put a statement out there and you read it and attributed it to yourself. Thats out of my control mate. But if I made you feel a certain way apologies

Originally posted by Diesldude
ignoring context and making assumptions.

They fought Superboy Prime, hit him with the one two SHAZAM and took him out

When I said you left out context I explained the missing context.

I didnt just put an empty statement out there.

So you gonna get back to the debate at hand or continue playing the victim?

Wiped the floor with me?

Your unverified opinion and evidence got debunked.

However youve demonstrated youre a sensitive guy so 'll let you push that narrative if it brings comfort

Lol... I told you. Diesldude is a weird human being who's debating style is just a mess. He's a headache. Sorry you had to learn this the hard way.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I told you. Diesldude is a weird human being who's debating style is just a mess. He's a headache. Sorry you had to learn this the hard way.

Lol. You did warn me.

He just got washed in this thread and yet he claims victory.

Odd indeed

Nice circle jerk lol.

Clean sweep and hush, Adam.

If youre objective and you put aside character bias it really was

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Nice circle jerk lol.

not really a circle, more like one way carver stroking GS hard

Originally posted by MrMind
not really a circle, more like one way carver stroking GS hard

Ewww. You had to take it there didnt you?

Either way as ive established in this thread:

1) The SBP vs DK is either a demonstration of CIS/PIS or an indication that after his battle with Perpetua, followed by devoting power to restore planetary damage just before his battle with SBP its possible he wasnt at full capacity. The fact that his battle with Perpetua was characterised by energy and matter manipulation vs a slugfest with SBP highlights this.

2) SBP is no ascendant entity that is beyond space and time therefore he is vulnerable to chronal manipulation and subject to the laws of reality/physics. He is also an energy dependant, mortal being. Any reasonably high level cosmic being could therefore take him out

3) Comic book battles do not dictate how forum battles go as the circumstances are different. No PIS/CIS

I try to be as objective as possible. Im a grown ass man and these are just comic book characters. Joe Quesada doesnt pay my bills

Just nasty. FYI... H1>>>>>>>>>Diesldude as well. I guess I'm circle jerking him as well. Diesldude is just terrible at this. Now scatter, Super friends.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Lol. You did warn me.

He just got washed in this thread and yet he claims victory.

Odd indeed I gave you a chance to keep it civil instead of being my punching bag but it appears you like the abuse. Or you know you got nothing.

Originally posted by carver9
Just nasty. FYI... H1>>>>>>>>>Diesldude as well. I guess I'm circle jerking him as well. Diesldude is just terrible at this. Now scatter, Super friends.


You have me on ignore but you keep talking about me. if you want my attention so bad, just get on your knees and pucker up.

1) Thats not what i said. Stop selectively addressing points and then laughing like a madman over a non achievement DK battled Perpetua, one of the supreme cosmic beings in DC and then immediately afterwards restored damage done by the heroes. After both of those activities it would be understandable that he would be taxed. If he wasnt taxed then the only explanation for going from fighting Perpetua with energy and matter manipulation to just slugging it out in a fist fight with SBP is PIS/CIS. Either way is a debating loss for you my friend as you cannot apply your treasured ABC logic and try and make out that SBP can defeat anyone DK can when DK didnt utilize the full range of powers that a cosmic of his station should have and could have. That sucks

2) Its your assertion that DK was at full power when he fought SBP. Nowhere is it stated on panel that after that intense battle with Perpetua that was shortly before that DK was suddenly at full power again. Thats your supposition as it allows you to overhype SuperboyPrime. You aint slick kid

If DK was at full power for arguments sake then nowhere is he depicted or stated to be doing anything but having an energy fuelled punch up with SBP in which case it would conclusively be CIS/PIS.

In a forum battle us posters can debate with the characters full range of powers brought to the table. Comic battles are not the same as forum battles.

Again you lose

3) We disregard PIS/CIS and consider a hypothetical battle with all abilities characters are OFFICIALLY stated to have. NOT assumptions made up by fans based on ambiguous art.

SBP is mortal and OF space and time and dependant on energy.

Therefore any cosmically significant being with high level chronal or reality manipulation abilities could conclusively beat him without issue.

DK not using said abilities despite possessing them means he either couldnt at the time (because of the Perpetua battle and planet restoration taxing him) or its PIS/CIS.

Said PIS/CIS would not apply to DK in a forum battle or to other cosmic characters.

You lose. SBP shares your fate.

Show us where it states explicitly on panel (none of your assumptions based on ambiguous art) SHOW US where it STATES EXPLICITLY that:

1) DK was unfazed by his battle with Perpetua and was at full power and not taxed at all when shortly afterwards he fought SBP

2) That DK or SBP were doing more than having an energy fuelled fist fight.

No supposition. No scan reposts with your unverified OPINION next to them.

Show us where it states clear as day those two points above.

Without them its either CIS/PIS or he wasnt at full power which explains why he didnt use 99% of his abilities.

SBP fighting and defeating a DK not stated or shown to be doing anything but having a fist fight with him means that you cant then draw conclusions around how SBP would fare against cosmics who wouldnt fight so stupidly

Annnnd its a washout people.

No, Galactic Storm.

Like I said in the past, you are just discussing topics that have been discussed ad nauseam not only here but in most forums... 10 years ago lol. Since then, we have a better understanding of how to handle such things which doesn't necessarily adhere with your pretty narrow and admittedly apologist stance. The fact that it's just Carver(lol) that's cheering you should tell you something.

There's been a lot-- and I mean, a LOT of instances of Marvel characters simply going for fisticuffs or blast-offs even when their powersets would allow them to end conflicts easier than they actually do. Are you actually suggesting Marvel characters get the benefit of BZ style arguments because you like to cherry pick showings? Lol

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
No, Galactic Storm.

Like I said in the past, you are just discussing topics that have been discussed ad nauseam not only here but in most forums... 10 years ago lol. Since then, we have a better understanding of how to handle such things which doesn't necessarily adhere with your pretty narrow and admittedly apologist stance. The fact that it's just Carver(lol) that's cheering you should tell you something.

There's been a lot-- and I mean, a LOT of instances of Marvel characters simply going for fisticuffs or blast-offs even when their powersets would allow them to end conflicts easier than they actually do. Are you actually suggesting Marvel characters get the benefit of BZ style arguments because you like to cherry pick showings? Lol

Your unnecessary insults are like water off a ducks back. If you want to debate then debate. Dont bring your faux intelligent rant my way whilst failing to bring anything of note to the topic at hand.

Your take on my take is a misinterpretation and thats not my burden of responsibility to correct.

I have made it quite apparent that comic book battles vs forum battles are entirely different affairs. Whether its Marvel or DC a showing on panel that can be subject to PIS/CIS is not necessarily a 1:1 reflection of how a battle would go down within the forum.


Anything else im happy to discuss

At the end of the day, punches and kicks rule comics.

Dr Manhattan can completely alter the multiverse, all of time and space and everything between, and still didn't think he could stop Superman from punching him out.

Even pre-retcon beyonder got dragged into fist-fights repeatedly.

Originally posted by Juntai
At the end of the day, punches and kicks rule comics.

Dr Manhattan can completely alter the multiverse, all of time and space and everything between, and still didn't think he could stop Superman from punching him out.

Even pre-retcon beyonder got dragged into fist-fights repeatedly.

Exactly this. Thats the difference between the comics and the forum. We're able to re-create battles without the restrictions of the comic book medium, the need to be artistically appealing, the need to appeal to a certain slice of the readership etc.

We can create threads where PIS/CIS are not a factor and just match people up with officially demonstrated abilities brought to the table.

Well said.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Exactly this. Thats the difference between the comics and the forum. We're able to re-create battles without the restrictions of the comic book medium, the need to be artistically appealing, the need to appeal to a certain slice of the readership etc.

We can create threads where PIS/CIS are not a factor and just match people up with officially demonstrated abilities brought to the table.

Well said.
I both agree and disagree here, so let me explain a little.

Characters of that level may sometimes suffer from PIS, sure, but some users here have tried to blow CIS out of proportion. CIS applies to stupid characters who are always inclined to lose, it even cites a specific character example in the rules. For all his power, Rhino will do a lot of stupid in a fight, and find a way to lose against almost any caliber of hero.
A character like Manhattan, Superman, Darkest Knight, Beyonder, or even Thor or whoever do not suffer from it. And choosing not to use a random power in a specific issue is not necessarily PIS or CIS. It's just storytelling.

In fact, there's a whole separate rule that governs it, which uses Flash as an example- just because he doesnt win every fight in one second and blitz everyone, doesn't mean he can't. It's within his power to do so.

But now where we find some disagreement; The point is, even that aside you have to believe all those esoteric powers aren't enough. We know he has them. Manhattan is even seeing the fight through the lens of time before we even get there. He's seeing it in the future and still thinks he can't win. In the Superman examples we've seen Superman simply run through reality manipulation time and again. Darkest Knights has two high end cosmic battles and other high end feats all around the time of the Prime fight. You can't possibly believe he forgot he has powers in this scenario just because he was forced into punches and kicks. As pointed out, lots of cosmics get into punches and kicks battle, with heros/villains and even with eachother.

PIS is something that is obvious and provable. For example, we know Black Panther couldnt hem up and embrass a Silver Surfer that was trying to fight him.

But Prime fighting Darkest Knight over the fate of the multiverse is quite a bit of a different scenario.

Originally posted by Juntai
I both agree and disagree here, so let me explain a little.

Characters of that level may sometimes suffer from PIS, sure, but some users here have tried to blow CIS out of proportion. CIS applies to stupid characters who are always inclined to lose, it even cites a specific character example in the rules. For all his power, Rhino will do a lot of stupid in a fight, and find a way to lose against almost any caliber of hero.
A character like Manhattan, Superman, Darkest Knight, Beyonder, or even Thor or whoever do not suffer from it. And choosing not to use a random power in a specific issue is not necessarily PIS or CIS. It's just storytelling.

In fact, there's a whole separate rule that governs it, which uses Flash as an example- just because he doesnt win every fight in one second and blitz everyone, doesn't mean he can't. It's within his power to do so.

But now where we find some disagreement; The point is, even that aside you have to believe all those esoteric powers aren't enough. We know he has them. Manhattan is even seeing the fight through the lens of time before we even get there. He's seeing it in the future and still thinks he can't win. In the Superman examples we've seen Superman simply run through reality manipulation time and again. Darkest Knights has two high end cosmic battles and other high end feats all around the time of the Prime fight. You can't possibly believe he forgot he has powers in this scenario just because he was forced into punches and kicks. As pointed out, lots of cosmics get into punches and kicks battle, with heros/villains and even with eachother.

PIS is something that is obvious and provable. For example, we know Black Panther couldnt hem up and embrass a Silver Surfer that was trying to fight him.

But Prime fighting Darkest Knight over the fate of the multiverse is quite a bit of a different scenario.

So maybe im a bit harsh on DK. His performance in that battle wouldnt be down to CIS as hes not a stupid character. It would be down to the storytelling and in my opinion the incident would be regarded as PIS.

Drawing parallels with your Flash example, with all of the abilities DK had at his disposal for him to not bring any of them to bear and to resort to a simple fist fight is tantamount to PIS.

We've seen via all of the Crisises and reboots how all of these characters, Superboy Prime, Superman etc are all helpless against high level chronal/reality manipulation.

Dr Manhattan casually just discarded 10years of their lives like it was nothing and they had no say in the matter.

DK was Dr Manhattan topped up with Crisis energy and was creating realities and manipulating space/time left, right and centre.

He has a great cosmic battle with Perpetua that involved an energy blasting and matter manipulating showdown.

Then when it came to SBP it was fisticuffs.

Either his previous exertions in the near past hampered him or it was PIS. There are no two ways about.

All of these characters have been shown to be vulnerable to high level manipulations the kind cosmics like DK, Perpetua and Dr M excel in.

Recognise the difference between official confirmation and your personal interpretation of what some ambiguous art shows. The latter holds no weight here.

More examples.

Here are two different fights between Molecule Man and Beyonder engaging both times in what appear to just be fisticuffs but with on panel/official verification that its more than just that:

https://imgur.com/twa9nzE

https://imgur.com/NH97xBi

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Recognise the difference between official confirmation and your personal interpretation of what some ambiguous art shows. The latter holds no weight here.

Lol at this discount mr master.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lol at this discount mr master.

Carry on sniping from the sidelines fear

My insistence on conclusive on panel evidence and the disregarding of ABC logic is a world away from Mr Masters schtick.

Lol @ you sidekick

Meh, 2/10 reply.

Is Adam and Diesldude the same peeps

Marvel 616 wins for obvious reasons that GS pointed out. Superboy Prime was always subject to time. If not he wouldn't have been sitting on that rock wondering what to do. The time and reality warpers would have a field day with SB Prime. Giving Superboy Prime the win here amounts to a no limits fallacy imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Is Adam and Diesldude the same peeps In english now, please?

Originally posted by Stoic
Marvel 616 wins for obvious reasons that GS pointed out. Superboy Prime was always subject to time. If not he wouldn't have been sitting on that rock wondering what to do. The time and reality warpers would have a field day with SB Prime. Giving Superboy Prime the win here amounts to a no limits fallacy imo.

Because time and reality warpers are Prime’s Kryptonite right?

Galactic Storm is akin to Muhammad Ali. Grimes is one those countless fools he knocked around.

This grime guy wont be remembered.

I wont either, but it was interesting to see the beating.

Don't let comicbook bias fool you Mr. Master was discount Galactic Storm all along

Originally posted by meep-meep
Galactic Storm is akin to Muhammad Ali. Grimes is one those countless fools he knocked around.

This grime guy wont be remembered.

I wont either, but it was interesting to see the beating. here comes the sock attack.

Originally posted by Diesldude
here comes the sock attack.

Really?

You cant just accept that others share my viewpoint?

Feel free to ask the mods to investigate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Recognise the difference between official confirmation and your personal interpretation of what some ambiguous art shows. The latter holds no weight here.
It's called connecting the dots.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

When you have official verification of Superboy Prime doing something more than just punching then let us know
I sited and linked to multiple examples already. the fact you are still asking this shows that you didnt either read them, didn't understand or just didnt want to believe them.

He flew into Dk and shattered universes.
He stole DK's power.
neither of these are prime just punching.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Unless you have some on panel verification that it was more than just fisticuffs then drop the point. Your unverified opinion is not enough. Refer to conclusive on panel statements or just preface your assertions with "in my opinion" and then accept that they arent canon.
See above.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As highlighted articulately by Juntai and to a lesser extent Adam Grimes, battles of fisticuffs are often what confrontations end up in at all tiers of the hierarchy.
And I stated that I disagreed with them. Why? Well I'll user your very own argument.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Its easier and more visually interesting for the reader if a battles expressed in ways we can relate to.

For example in Thanos Imperative there was a confrontation between the Abstracts/cosmics and the Undying Ones from the Cancerverse. It appeared to be a stand off but we're told the battle was actually going down at the Abstract level:

https://imgur.com/rmA5mwb

https://imgur.com/gvZ5s8I

So despite something basic being depicted on panel, we have on panel confirmation that something deeper is actually going on

When Odin faced Seth and engaged in what appeared to be basic energy fuelled fisticuffs, we have on panel confirmation that something deeper is actually going down and both characters emissions are actually affecting reality.


thanks for bringing this up because i already stated something similar and why I disagree with Juntai and AG. what looks like a abstracts staring at each other is actually a battle being fought on the abstract level.
If you recall, I i asked what would you rather see, two guys with their fingers resting on their temples and staring at each other or an action packed fight that was taking place all across reality? In your example surfer explains this, but in prime's case, you see realities being shattered (on panel) when he flies and punches DK.
And on panel statement that he could finish this and destroy everything.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

When you have official verification of Superboy Prime doing something more than just punching then let us know

You brought up a single statement from surfer to show there is more than meets the eye when there is a battle with marvel but you refuse to accept prime's statement that he could kill dk and destroy everything with a punch or the fact you see universes being destroyed via art and via prime's statement.

You are quick to accept a single statement from marvel but refuse to accept primes and would just rather see a fist fight brawl. LOL biased much.

Originally posted by Diesldude
It's called connecting the dots.


I sited and linked to multiple examples already. the fact you are still asking this shows that you didnt either read them, didn't understand or just didnt want to believe them.

He flew into Dk and shattered universes.
He stole DK's power.
neither of these are prime just punching.



See above.


And I stated that I disagreed with them. Why? Well I'll user your very own argument.





thanks for bringing this up because i already stated something similar and why I disagree with Juntai and AG. what looks like a abstracts staring at each other is actually a battle being fought on the abstract level.
If you recall, I i asked what would you rather see, two guys with their fingers resting on their temples and staring at each other or an action packed fight that was taking place all across reality? In your example surfer explains this, but in prime's case, you see realities being shattered (on panel) when he flies and punches DK.
And on panel statement that he could finish this and destroy everything.



You brought up a single statement from surfer to show there is more than meets the eye when there is a battle with marvel but you refuse to accept prime's statement that he could kill dk and destroy everything with a punch or the fact you see universes being destroyed via art and via prime's statement.

You are quick to accept a single statement from marvel but refuse to accept primes and would just rather see a fist fight brawl. LOL biased much.

AGAIN you do not seem to be able to comprehend the difference between an official confirmation i.e an on panel statement or narration to tell us what's happening from the publishers perspective and your personal interpretation of ambiguous art.

Your interpretation is that SPB has some power that allowed him to shatter realities with a punch.

My interpretation is that as Darkest Knight was the power behind those realities, the power that maintained them, by attacking him, it had the side effect of disrupting DKs activity damaging the realities he was bringing about.

See how ambiguous art without an official clarification is open to interpretation?

You're saying he stole DKs power based on the art im saying that DKs energy is cascading everywhere and saturating both them and the scene.

Again. See how art can generate so many different perspectives and interpretations?

I then showed you multiple scenes of different cosmics in different scenes engaging in what on panel looked like a basic slugfest.

However those scenes I showed were coupled with either narration or character commentary telling us as readers how we should view what the art shows.

Telling us as readers what the official company line is.

Without the narration or commentary, if it was just art, it would be open to interpretation and we would be able to share our OPINIONS of whats going on whilst accepting that neither side can assert their views as canon.


See the difference?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Recognise the difference between official confirmation and your personal interpretation of what some ambiguous art shows. The latter holds no weight here.

Well DantasKEdc...youve got your answer.

616 WINS

Prime wins obviously. Lol @ circlejerk

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime wins obviously. Lol @ circlejerk

He doesnt. But welcome back

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He doesnt. But welcome back
Of course he does. Your opinion is worthless just like you are.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course he does. Your opinion is worthless just like you are. Whilst, I will never call my old friend GS useless, he is quite wrong on this, as he is often on many things. His ability to misunderstand stories and create his own narrative has kept me amused for more than 16 years.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Whilst, I will never call my old friend GS useless, he is quite wrong on this, as he is often on many things. His ability to misunderstand stories and create his own narrative has kept me amused for more than 16 years.

The main man.

Good to see youre active again and keeping safe.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The main man.

Good to see youre active again and keeping safe. it's good to see you old pal. Yeah, things are pretty unsafe in Nigeria right now, but, I'm alive and ducking and diving. Hope you are good, it's lovely to see you back, despite disagreeing with everything you say on the story... as usual.

So as it stands Diesldude you have yet to provide any conclusive evidence of your point. Zero official confirmation.

All you have presented is scans alongside your opinion of whats going on in them.

Whilst certainly interesting to read, it isnt canon im afraid. Thats what you need to accept.

Now, if yahman and cresh returned we could bicker as we did long ago.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
it's good to see you old pal. Yeah, things are pretty unsafe in Nigeria right now, but, I'm alive and ducking and diving. Hope you are good, it's lovely to see you back, despite disagreeing with everything you say on the story... as usual.

Youre in Nigeria?!! How come?! Last i heard you lived in London mate. I'm way behind lol

Itd be boring as hell if everyone agreed

Is there any indication that Dark Knight was even weakened by his fight with Perpatua or is this total horse shit to please your view that Prime managed to fight DK

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Is there any indication that Dark Knight was even weakened by his fight with Perpatua or is this total horse shit to please your view that Prime managed to fight DK

Relax with that tone and language. Its unnecessary. You can disagree and still conduct yourself appropriately.

Nowhere have i asserted that it is canon that DK was weakened after his battle with Perpetua.

What i did say was that he was either weakened/hampered in some way OR its Plot Induced Stupidity.

Prime vulnerabilities

He is mortal and ages:

Time Trapper is an aged future SBP and is therefore vulnerable to time manipulation. Eternity, Kronos, Phoenix, Classic Odin, damn even Kang and Immortus
https://imgur.com/lxVdKqS

https://imgur.com/rFU30y0
When SBP collides with his future counterpart the laws of reality come into play and Prime is depowered and shunted back to his native reality demonstrating he is also subject to reality manipulation. Eternity, HOM Scarlet Witch, Adult Franklin Richards, Jamie Braddock, Mad Jim Jaspers, Marquis of Death, cube beings, a cosmic cube wielder, the Celestials and more could defeat him via reality manipulation.

Superboy Prime dies from the simple act of putting on a black lantern ring further demonstrating his mortality and that he is therefore subject to death. Therefore the abstract Death and anyone with power over death at a fundamental level such as the spirit of death and rebirth the Phoenix Force could 100% end him with a thought
https://imgur.com/zpT9dVg
https://imgur.com/xj3AnWE

SBP is not immune to magic. Just more resistant to it than Superman. SBP is battered unconscious with magic lightning from Shazam and Adam thereby demonstrating that sufficiently powerful magic users could defeat him. Inbetweener, Chaos and Order, The Vishanti, a Dr Strange with prep arguably could defeat him given on panel evidence:

https://imgur.com/NH2lIPL
https://imgur.com/Vaf3X0S

On top of that any matter manipulators or reality warpers of note could take him out via red sun radiation.

https://imgur.com/b4zcuTc

Originally posted by meep-meep
Galactic Storm is akin to Muhammad Ali. Grimes is one those countless fools he knocked around.

This grime guy wont be remembered.

I wont either, but it was interesting to see the beating. Nope. But I have to give props to the GS guy for having a fan like this lol.

As Juntai said the Flash not speedblitzing his enemies on panel everytime is PIS.
It doesnt mean that he cant.

In a forum battle, CIS/PIS are not factors. A characters full range of abilities are considered and implemented in a hypothetical match up.

DK could manipulate time and reality.
He could utilize red sun radiation.
He couldve just made himself ephemeral whilst blasting the hell outta SBP.

He resorted to fisticuffs.
In said scene there was zero on panel confirmation of any high level abilities being used in the battle by either SBP or DK. So we cant treat assertions to the contrary as canon.

Its just the way it works guys

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre in Nigeria?!! How come?! Last i heard you lived in London mate. I'm way behind lol

Itd be boring as hell if everyone agreed Work GS, I haven't been in London for 10 odd years, KSA, Cairo, KSA again now 3 years in Naija. I'll take this to pm as you never know who is stalking bud.

Prime says "Can i change all of them if i kill this monster?"

Prime doesnt claim any ability to change reality directly. He reasons after what happened with the evil superman that taking out the source of the nightmare worlds, would have the same effect i.e causing good to become dominant over the 52 worlds.

He explicitly highlights it as a possible side effect from taking out DK who we know is maintaining said worlds.

SBP attacks DK and Good starts to take hold and SBP sees glimpses of whats possible if good triumphs.

DK gets his bearings meaning evil takes hold hence Prime seeing a return to the evil/nightmare versions of said worlds.

After attacking DK again and finally defeating him, good/anti-crisis prevails and the worlds are changed.

Its presented as a side effect of taking out DK. Not an outcome SBP possesses an ability to directly bring about.

He states: "Can i change all of them if i kill this monster?"

SBP attacked DK thereby disrupting his hold over reality resulting in good prevailing as a side effect. That is all.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Recognise the difference between official confirmation and your personal interpretation of what some ambiguous art shows. The latter holds no weight here.

You will get this in your head. Recite this post

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You will get this in your head. Recite this post I know I said you can have the last word but man I got you talking to yourself.

As I've demonstrated, ambiguous art without explicit explanatory narration or character commentary can generate different interpretations in different readers.

Sharing said views and talking about the characters we love is cool.
What isnt cool is to assert that your interpretation is canon.

Thats what youre doing here. You are not DC editorial. Be humble.

SBP's powers had increased with his age.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
SBP's powers had increased with his age.

An increase in strength of the Kryptonian power set is to be expected with maturity.

These guys however are interpreting ambiguous art to give SBP new powers that are not confirmed officially and are asserting them as canon.

Doesnt work like that

The bias is real. These guys want to weigh up who they believe DK can beat in Marvel(referencing his full range of abilities) then say SBP beat DK so he can therefore beat all of those Marvel characters to but conveniently ignore that DK didnt use all of those same abilities in his fight with SBP.

Absurd!

Im making stuff up?

Im the one insisting on conclusive on panel evidence Youre the one stringing stories together based on ambiguous art. Thatll be making stuff up

Furthermore, if youre commenting saying red sun radiation isnt an issue when Superboy Prime has his armour on then i show a scan of SBP getting fried by said radiation whilst hes got his armour on then thats basically your point debunked

People can read DD

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No. Im saying he was either weak/hampered OR it was PIS. We'll never know which one unless an official source sheds clarity.

Whether its the former or the latter DK never brought his full range of abilities to the table, therefore you cant then apply ABC logic and evaluate who you believe DK is superior to in Marvel (whilst referencing his full range of abilities) and then give an auto win to Superboy Prime over those same people (whilst ignoring the fact that DK didntuse 99% of his abilities and just resorted to fisticuffs)

I hope thats brought some clarity to my stance.

Happy to discuss further. Keep it civil
Yeah, that's now how this is going to work

You are making baseless theories because you dont know how the issue portrayed Superboy

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING suggests that FK was weakened or hampered. Nothing.


All evidence point to Superboy performing at or above the level that he was previously generally portrayed at.


A character in comics not using their full power is a silly excuse. I can point out to too many Cosmic Beings who've had some level of power be forgotten in fight. Hell, even the fight between WW and DK looked like they were just smashing planets between each other or punching each other. Should we assume they were both weakened?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, that's now how this is going to work

You are making baseless theories because you dont know how the issue portrayed Superboy

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING suggests that FK was weakened or hampered. Nothing.


All evidence point to Superboy performing at or above the level that he was previously generally portrayed at.


A character in comics not using their full power is a silly excuse. I can point out to too many Cosmic Beings who've had some level of power be forgotten in fight. Hell, even the fight between WW and DK looked like they were just smashing planets between each other or punching each other. Should we assume they were both weakened?

You are missing the point entirely and arguing over a point thats not being asserted as canon.

I said either its a case of DK being weakened or hampered in some form or its Plot Induced Stupidity. (Look up the forum rules for PIS)

I never asserted a weakening as being canon, im all about conclusive evidence, so why youre pursuing me as if i did is baffling. Read and digest the points in play and then you'll find you'll be doing a lot less typing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You are missing the point entirely and arguing over a point thats not being asserted as canon.

I said either its a case of DK being weakened or hampered in some form or its Plot Induced Stupidity. (Look up the forum rules for PIS)

I never asserted a weakening as being canon, im all about conclusive evidence, so why youre pursuing me as if i did is baffling. Read and digest the points in play and then you'll find you'll be doing a lot less typing.
No, I'm not missing the point. You dont seem to understand, that you're bringing into this conversation, possibility that are baseless. There is also no point to continue past that until we've establishment your initial stance.

You might as well say...DK could have been
1. Weakened, hampered
2. Tired, or sleepy
3. Playing around with SBP
4. was weak to Kryptonian's flesh

None of these make any more sense than the other

Could it be PIS, you can make an argument about that. Anything else, it's really just you making baseless assumption.

As for PIS, we can discuss that but first, lets start with why you think or even brought up the idea that DK was hampered or weakened? What makes that anything but baseless.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I'm not missing the point. You dont seem to understand, that you're bringing into this conversation, possibility that are baseless. There is also no point to continue past that until we've establishment your initial stance.

You might as well say...DK could have been
1. Weakened, hampered
2. Tired, or sleepy
3. Playing around with SBP
4. was weak to Kryptonian's flesh

None of these make any more sense than the other

Could it be PIS, you can make an argument about that. Anything else, it's really just you making baseless assumption.

As for PIS, we can discuss that but first, lets start with why you think or even brought up the idea that DK was hampered or weakened? What makes that anything but baseless.

Again, your actions are baffling.

I have stated clear as day that im ALL about conclusive evidence.

Without conclusive evidence then its just an exchange of interpretations and you either agree or disagree.

Ive stated my reasons why i believe DK could have been weakened. Read away. Its not a long thread. I also made it clear that was an interpretation. If you dont agree with that interpretation thats fine. Stop doggedly attacking that interpretation and throwing around claims that its baseless when its not something thats being asserted as canon but instead an interpretation based on the events in the story. Your actions are odd. Agree or disagree on that interpretation and move on.

If you dont agree that DK was hampered in some way then given what DK is capable of doing with the Dr Manhattan power set, (i.e high level reality, chronal, matter manipulation etc) then the fact that he did none of that and resorted to just punches is conclusively PIS. Its how it was written.

However here in a forum battle we're not bound by PIS. So we would be judging a DK and all of the varied abilities he has at his disposal vs SBP.

Given SBPs demonstrated vulnerabilities a forum battle would have a very different outcome

PIS is a common feature of comic book storytelling. Without it then battles could be a lot less compelling in portrayal as they'd end quickly or just wouldn't look visually interesting from an artistic viewpoint.

Flash not speed-blitzing his non superhumanly fast foes and swiftly ending a battle is PIS.

Magneto being able to manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum but being shown to be virtually helpless without a supply of metal around is PIS.

DK beng as intellingent as he is, having the insight he does and having the powerset that he does in the face of SBP having numerous known and exploitable weaknesses and yet not doing anything but fist fighting with SBP is PIS.


You cant when it suits you then say DK is capable of all of these multiversal spanning feats so he can beat x amount of Marvel characters (based on his full power set), then say SBP beat DK so he can also beat all those Marvel characters and yet ignore the fact that DK didnt use those abilities in fighting SBP

You're keep bringing up PIS, as i said, we will discuss that after
You're bringing up a possibility that DK was weakened. Yet, you have brought up anything as evidence except PIS, which is entirely different excuse and discussion


If you willing to drop the idea that DK may have been weakened or hampered, than im happy to discuss PIS.

we aren't going to move forward until we settle this. Otherwise, any discuss will never end. You'll claim that he was weakened or any other person will be making the assumption that DK was toying with SBP. Both are baseless

Well said GS. It's as clear as day that Superboy Prime was subject to the time stream. You even see his humble beginnings for the love of Smurfette!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're keep bringing up PIS, as i said, we will discuss that after
You're bringing up a possibility that DK was weakened. Yet, you have brought up anything as evidence except PIS, which is entirely different excuse and discussion


If you willing to drop the idea that DK may have been weakened or hampered, than im happy to discuss PIS.

we aren't going to move forward until we settle this. Otherwise, any discuss will never end. You'll claim that he was weakened or any other person will be making the assumption that DK was toying with SBP. Both are baseless

There's a very good possibility that you missed the point. It really doesn't matter either because if DK didn't truly job the phuck out, it would mean that not only could Superboy Prime dust him, but Monarch would've given him a wedgie as well. DK was supposed to be able to see an attack coming from a million plus years away. You wouldn't call what happened PIS, jobbing, whatever you call it when the superior character is beaten the phuck down by the unlikely savior?

So long as you have the last statement, I'm sure that's okay.