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Watched the pilot today. Was good I thought.

Poor Depa Bilaba though.

It was nice yeah, hope that rumor that Vos is going to appear will prove true by the end of the season

Had forgotten about this, so thanks. Will watch tonight.

Do like that Ep 1 was released on May the 4th, instead of the usual Fridays.

So this episode completely retconned Depa Billaba's death and Kanon's escape... lmao

So much for "everything is canon". It's become increasingly clear that the comics/books are completely irrelevant.

Really enjoyed this. Its nice to have some quality animation back after that torture that was Resistance.


Originally posted by ares834
So this episode completely retconned Depa Billaba's death and Kanon's escape... lmao

So much for "everything is canon". It's become increasingly clear that the comics/books are completely irrelevant.


Yep.

That said the comic screwed that up anyway. This was in line with the dialogue from Rebels.


Originally posted by Total Warrior
It was nice yeah, hope that rumor that Vos is going to appear will prove true by the end of the season


Im sure he will. But best not to throw him on right away.

What was the contradiction between the comic and Rebels? And was it caused by a later season of Rebels?

Originally posted by ares834
What was the contradiction between the comic and Rebels? And was it caused by a later season of Rebels?


That Depas last word to Kanan was Run, and that he actually ran and left her to die. Dialogue when the GI was torturing Kanan.

In the comic he joins her and fights for a bit first. And her last words to him isnt to Run.

He did run though. After he fights briefly Depa tells him to run and he does.

Originally posted by ares834
He did run though. After he fights briefly Depa tells him to run and he does.


Yeah but it wasnt a scenario where hed feel so cowardly for leaving her. As She practically forces him after he fights alongside her. And Run wasnt her last word to him. Instead it was her last word of part 1 of that comic series facepalm

Sure it was. He knows she is lying and still runs. Plenty of reason for a character for like Kanan to feel guilty for running.

As for the last words, that's so irrelevant that I don't care. Sure, her last word wasn't literally "run" but that last thing she told him was to run.

Thought Depa would have put up a better fight honestly

Originally posted by ares834
Sure it was. He knows she is lying and still runs. Plenty of reason for a character for like Kanan to feel guilty for running.


Nah. GI specifically says what would your friends think if they knew. Staying to fight until it was pointless and Depa convinced him to go is very different to him not helping at all and then just running.


Originally posted by ares834
As for the last words, that's so irrelevant that I don't care. Sure, her last word wasn't literally "run" but that last thing she told him was to run.


It's not about what you care about. It's about canon being canon, and the comic version was clearly contradictory to the dialogue we got in Rebels. This was far more congruent, with zero contradictions clearly because Filoni was in charge of both.


Originally posted by Total Warrior
Thought Depa would have put up a better fight honestly


She was completely surrounded, and still the surprise factor was there, despite her blocking the initial shots.

Honestly she did far better than most the council. I wouldn't expect much better than that in Canon. Especially from a Jedi we haven't really spent much time with in Canon.

I remember back in the day people used to argue Depa would curb Anakin or Obi-wan.

She had a lot of hype in Shatterpoint.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah. GI specifically says what would your friends think if they knew. Staying to fight until it was pointless and Depa convinced him to go is very different to him not helping at all and then just running.

Nah. It's the same thing. Depa tells him to run and he runs.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's not about what you care about. It's about canon being canon, and the comic version was clearly contradictory to the dialogue we got in Rebels. This was far more congruent, with zero contradictions clearly because Filoni was in charge of both.

It was not "clearly contradictory". Kanan could have misremembered or he could be talking about the general idea. Ultimately, it's dialogue and dialogue is often not literal or even correct. The contradiction here is borderline irrelevant. However, depicting events in two completely different ways (which is what we had with BB and the comic) is a clear contradiction. It's also not the only time Filoni has done this.

Will watch this tonight.

I really liked Shatterpoint, though I haven't read it in years so I don't remember how horribly un-canon it might be. I just remember liking it.

Shatterpoint is really good(as are most of Stover's works.) Virtually nothing about it meshes with new canon, but it's still a great read on its own.

Enjoyed the episode for the most part.

A petty gripe I had was Lil' Kanan's voice. Kid was only supposed to be like 14 at this point, but he sounded like a 40 year old man.

Originally posted by ares834
So this episode completely retconned Depa Billaba's death and Kanon's escape... lmao

So much for "everything is canon". It's become increasingly clear that the comics/books are completely irrelevant. The "everything is canon" rule doesn't mean SW lore is immune to retcons.

2nd episode is up, because I guess they're going to come out on Fridays from now on, and the pilot was a special thing for May 4th.

Fine episode. Some interesting bits about the empire.

Originally posted by Galan007
The "everything is canon" rule doesn't mean SW lore is immune to retcons.

These aren't minor errors but a blatant disregard for the other material. Sure, Disney may continue to claim that this stuff is canon, but the guys running these shows like Filoni clearly have no qualms overwriting and disregarding what came before.

Originally posted by ares834
These aren't minor errors but a blatant disregard for the other material. Sure, Disney may continue to claim that this stuff is canon, but the guys running these shows like Filoni clearly have no qualms overwriting and disregarding what came before. Yeah, but retcons happen in pretty much any medium you can think of, so I don't really see the issue here?

Just because everything is canon, doesn't mean newer material is forbidden from ever making changes/alterations in continuity. That's what happened here. /shrug

-

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but retcons happen in pretty much any medium you can think of, so I don't really see the issue here?

Just because everything is canon, doesn't mean newer material is forbidden from ever making changes/alterations in continuity. That's what happened here. /shrug

The issue is Kanan had a fully fleshed out backstory that was well documented, and not that old. A 12 issue series that's only 5 years old isn't something you retcon on a whim, which they clearly did(or outright ignored) just so Kanan could show up in the Bad Batch's story for a bit.

And unless they're gonna retroactively show Squad 99 interacting with the Rebels at some point, it wasn't even for any good reason.

People need to rethink how they see "canon" and stop obsessing over minor details like this. Ultimately Star Wars is a mythology that is being retold from a huge narrative distance (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...) details get muddled, recollections differ. This isn't a "retcon" so much as a slightly different retelling. Likewise Legends isn't non-canon, just firmly in the category of "myth".

When you look at the differences between what happened in the comic and the show the major plot points are the same, and it really makes next to no difference to Kanan's overall arc. Compare that to the pre-Disney continuity where Clone Wars would rewrite swathes of past lore and character and I'd say this is a major improvement, and we should probably stop complaining.

The difference is back then, Lucasfilm didn't pretend that the comics and novels were as canon as the movies and tv series. They were upfront with the fact that canon was broken into tiers with some stuff being more important than others. And, hell, I complained about it back then. So no, I'm not going to "stop complaining" about it. It's not hard to keep this stuff consistent, especially when there is so little material.

I'm calling it now we will find out in this series who rescued Grogu from Order 66 who I'm guessing will be Quinlan Vos.

And we'll most likely see a young Mando.

Originally posted by ares834
The difference is back then, Lucasfilm didn't pretend that the comics and novels were as canon as the movies and tv series. They were upfront with the fact that canon was broken into tiers with some stuff being more important than others. And, hell, I complained about it back then. So no, I'm not going to "stop complaining" about it. It's not hard to keep this stuff consistent, especially when there is so little material. Well it's been 7 years since canon was rebooted, and this is clearly how they intend to operate i.e. maintaining that all entries into the Star Wars universe are "canon" but giving themselves leeway to diverge a little where appropriate. Insisting that they hew militantly to every past comic, novel or encyclopedia is just impractical in the long term, and would come at the expensive of creative freedom.

So yeah, I think it's time to let it go.

Nope.

Don't peddle it as equally canon if you're going to overwrite it. Also my point was less a complaint in the first place, but rather pointing out that Disney doesn't give two shits about "canon".

But that's how it is. Everything disney puts out IS equally canon, unless (or until) it is overwritten by newer material.

Same kind of changes happened all the time in Legends too. Except in that case people would vehemently argue what was "more canon" between a character entry on the back of a cereal box, and a character entry someone found in a scholastic pamphlet they got in 1994.

The difference with new canon is that random shit doesn't get thrown into a bunch of different "canonization tiers", and is more streamlined now. If a source from 2015 is contradicted by a source from 2020, the 2015 source is simply retconned and the 2020 source becomes canon. It's that simple.

But that's clearly not the case. The TV shows and movies are not beholden to previous material. It's pretty much the exact same as the way it was treated before, except Disney pretends and says that's not the case. Even though it is.

This same shit happened in The Mandalorian.

The previous movies, comics and guides all stated that Luke never took any official pupils until Ben. But that was retconned the second Luke took Grogu.

This doesn't mean some sources are more valid or canon then others. That's not how it works in disney canon. The newest info is what we can go by.

Nah. You'll never see the comics or books have a blatant disregard for the shows and movies.

Maybe, maybe not. That doesn't change the fact that alternative media like comics and novels are just as canon as the movies and TV shows. That's how Disney canon is formatted.

Retcons are commonplace across all forms of fiction. Not sure why you're taking such an issue with this one?

I don't care if it's common. It's sloppy and not difficult to keep things consistent. As I've said, I was not pleased when things were retconned in the EU.

But my point isn't about me complaining about it, frankly I don't care about Disney's EU, but rather the fact that Disney's "everything is equally canon" is clearly bunk.

Originally posted by ares834
the fact that Disney's "everything is equally canon" is clearly bunk. No it isn't lol.

Kanan's backstory was perfectly canon for the last 6-ish years, even though it happened in comic format. The first ep of Bad Batch just retconned it as to include Squad 99 in the story. Just because something has been retconned doesn't mean it wasn't canon prior to the retcon taking place.

Retcons have no bearing on canonicity. If a novel were released next year that said Kanan dreamed the entire thing up and Squad 99 was never even there, THAT would become the new canon. Etc.

This is how it works in all forms of fiction. Not really a big deal.

It's just lazy. With the Bad Batch being an all new idea, having them be part of a different, new team of Jedi Master and Padawan during Order 66 wouldn't have been an issue at all. The only reason I can think of them completely ignoring Kanan's established backstory to just stick him and Ballaba in the opener was so they could make an easy connection for potential Rebels crossovers in the pre-Ezra days. And it wouldn't have been impossible without it, they just took an easy way out and invalidated a lot of hard work for real reason.

Originally posted by Sheev
No it isn't lol.

Kanan's backstory was perfectly canon for the last 6-ish years, even though it happened in comic format. The first ep of Bad Batch just retconned it as to include Squad 99 in the story. Just because something has been retconned doesn't mean it wasn't canon prior to the retcon taking place.

Retcons have no bearing on canonicity. If a novel were released next year that said Kanan dreamed the entire thing up and Squad 99 was never even there, THAT would become the new canon. Etc.

This is how it works in all forms of fiction. Not really a big deal.

I've said it multiple times in this thread, these shows are clearly not bound by what came before. This is not a one time retcon, this has happened multiple times. If the shows can disregard other "canon" material at will but the other stuff can not then there is clearly no level of equality among them.

Originally posted by ares834
then there is clearly no level of equality among them. Except there officially is?

The show retconning the comics doesn't diminish the fact that everything is canon. It also doesn't mean newer canon cannot override older canon.

It's like talking to a wall... lmao

Your contention is that the show retconning the comics (6 years after they were released) somehow means that all material is not equally canon.

This is not correct.

It's like you missed half of my point. I'm well aware of what Disney claimed but their actions and how they've treated canon shows us that it was a lie.

So repeating again and again Disney's stance is "official" pointless. I'm well aware of it. Disagree with me all you want and continue to believe Disney but from what I've seen it's quite clearly a lie (something that was obvious from the starts BTW).

I've only ever seen three people in the main/canon Star Wars mythos rock a cape, back or side style.

It's either Bail Organa, Fulcrum/Ahsoka or Lando Calrissian. And Rafa/Trace are good guys so they have no reason to lie to the Batch. They also worked with Ahsoka in Clone Wars and Filoni is cutting and pasting old and new canon wherever he wants so it makes sense at least a bit.

I'm more interested in when Wrecker's chip is going to fully activate and make him go crazy.

It's most likely Bail going by the clothing but I'd wouldn't be surprised of they threw a curve ball at us and it's someone we'd not expect.

Perhaps a Jedi?

I don't see why they'd hide the identity of Bail or Saw because we already know they are involved in the start of the Rebellion.

I mean would anyone really be surprised if it was Bail, Saw, or Ahsoka?

I'm going with a surprise we won't expect

watched the first 6 episodes. a little disappointed so far. that get the point of she/her character omega either.

So turns out it was Rex the sisters were talking to. Makes sense considering we've seen nothing of him since he and Ahsoka went their separate ways, but we know he was alive, well, and without a chip so him continuing to help the fledgling Rebellion is right on track.

I feel like Cid will betray the Batch at some point and they'll end up with the Rebellion proper.

Wasn't expecting Cad Bane in this...

Yeah it was a cool return

Wasn't Cad Bane supposed to have died in the original plan before the Clone Wars ended?

Now he is alive and well during the Empire era.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Wasn't Cad Bane supposed to have died in the original plan before the Clone Wars ended?

Now he is alive and well during the Empire era.

Bane never died. He faked his death, then he got back into the action and screwed with the Jedi several times. The last time we saw him in Clone Wars he'd been arrested. He got free off screen or in a comic I believe and then he turns out to be the guy who trained Boba Fett in the ways of bounty hunting because he owed Jango.

I like the show, but it's starting to get annoying how easily the Bad Batch are beaten, outsmarted, or taken down every single episode. I get it, they're the main characters now so they have to be vulnerable and can't be an unstoppable force of awesome, but Wrecker is basically big man comic relief and forgets how strong and tough he actually is.

Hunter's senses have been dulled so much he can't even tell if people are sneaking up on him or how to track properly. Plus he's awful in a fight. He's gotten his ass handed to him by Bane, Fennec, and anyone who matters. Tech constantly makes mistakes despite being the smartest guy in the series pretty much, and Echo can barely make use of his R2-D2 Socket arm.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Wasn't Cad Bane supposed to have died in the original plan before the Clone Wars ended?

Now he is alive and well during the Empire era.


Obviously not canon.

Him getting outclassed by Fennec was BS though.

clone wars used to be film canon, as per george lucas's wish, until disney took it over and decided that its just a cartoon sitcom after all. I was glad that disney put an end to that. no film writer should have to make a year-long career out of watching every SW cartoon, and reading the many SW books "officially approved as canon by george lucas (because reasons), in order to avoid contradictions and plot holes.

I have to say, I am enjoying the latest episodes, though they are a tad slow. What I really like though, is that we're being shown that the chips didn't make all the clones turn suddenly evil. It made them turn on the Jedi, yes, but look at Howzer and his squad.

The implication is obviously that the clones can't be trusted to be completely loyal to the Empire, but now we're seeing why. Another interesting part is Crosshair, and how this will or won't affect him going forward.

The last two episodes are just Meh.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
clone wars used to be film canon, as per george lucas's wish, until disney took it over and decided that its just a cartoon sitcom after all. I was glad that disney put an end to that. no film writer should have to make a year-long career out of watching every SW cartoon, and reading the many SW books "officially approved as canon by george lucas (because reasons), in order to avoid contradictions and plot holes.


They are actually still film canon.



Originally posted by -Pr-
I have to say, I am enjoying the latest episodes, though they are a tad slow. What I really like though, is that we're being shown that the chips didn't make all the clones turn suddenly evil. It made them turn on the Jedi, yes, but look at Howzer and his squad.

The implication is obviously that the clones can't be trusted to be completely loyal to the Empire, but now we're seeing why. Another interesting part is Crosshair, and how this will or won't affect him going forward.



They must have malfunctioning chips or something. Because most the clones didnt give squad. And remember Cross Hair is betraying his own friends (who obviously arent Jedi). In fact when Wreckers chip activated he also turned on all of them, despite no Jedi being around.

Crosshair's chip was less mutated than the others because he's just an insanely good sniper with great eyesight. He doesn't have super senses or extreme strength or a hyper intelligent brain. And the Imperials increased the power of his chips signal so much that he's completely fine murdering children if the mission calls for it. He's basically in complete control of himself aside from having no morals outside of his mission protocol.

Them going after non-jedi is because they follow orders. Wrecker knew the Imperials were already after the Batch and that they were traitors so when his chip turned on, he already knew to try and take them out.

We've also seen clones ignore their programming like Cut Lawquane who deserted and has a twi'lek family now. He was living as a civilian before Order 66 even happened and he was completely unaffected.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
They are actually still film canon.







They must have malfunctioning chips or something. Because most the clones didnt give squad. And remember Cross Hair is betraying his own friends (who obviously arent Jedi). In fact when Wreckers chip activated he also turned on all of them, despite no Jedi being around.

I honestly took it to mean that their attitudes are different between civilians and other clones, and in Wrecker's case, he'd know that the Batch are technically traitors, whereas Howzer would have less of an idea.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly took it to mean that their attitudes are different between civilians and other clones, and in Wrecker's case, he'd know that the Batch are technically traitors, whereas Howzer would have less of an idea.


Maybe. Theres bound to be more so will see where they go with it.

But youre right in that it will explain why the Emperor and Tarkin definitively decided against clones for the future of the Empire.

Interesting turnaround with Crosshair.

Poor Tipoca City though. Damn.

Omega is as annoying as Jar Jar, Child Anakin, and Rosie Tico
****ing horrible character

Agreef

Just read that the planet Wayland appeared in this and that there even was a cloning facility at Mount Tantiss. Shame on you all for not mentioning that in this thread. You call yourself SW fans?! I may even get around to finishing the show cause of this. Hope they hint at them cloning Jedi there. Would be amazing if they named dropped Joruus.

Oh thats what that scene was. Honestly I didnt even notice.

Just assumed it was more setting up Snoke and Palpatine clone bodies crap

https://youtu.be/R15uYFpeBG0


New trailer. Cant say im too excited.

Im more excited for that FO sequel they showed

Yeah that looks cool.

Both episodes were terrible

Honestly unlike Rebels which didnt really need Maul and Vader and Kenobi and Palpatine (well Vader was cool tbh), but this show desperately needs something extra, yet theyre avoiding any extras like the plague.

This ep was a bit better, it was nice seeing a Cody and the Droids again

That episode was actually pretty ****ing good ngl

Just caught up. Yeah Episode 3 was really good. But then episode 4 was kiddish.

Hopefully more episodes focused on Crosshair and Cody. Show needs to find its strength.

Liked episode 5. Wished we got more of these treasure hunts in SW. We could get a series about Jedi Archeologists (they still exist in canon right) roaming the galaxy and uncovering old jedi/sith treasures/artifacts

Oh finally Gungi, was nice seieng some jedi action. Hopefully he'll make an appearance in other episodes and give us more insight on order 66 from his perspective, since he was inside the Temple

I have a love/hate relationship with this show


tonight's episode was good though

Omega is one of the worst Star Wars characters in Disney Canon

If only Omega died instead of Tech

Yeah Actually thought it got decent. And impressed theyve gone 2 seasons without bringing in big players. Given how quickly they brought in Vader, Ahsoka and Maul to Rebels.

Watched the first 3 episodes. They were I guess okay overall, but I will say that the animation this season is very good.

Also was awesome to see Sidious (voiced by Ian McDiarmid) make a cameo.

I wonder who that creepy stormtrooper we see at the beginning of ep 3 is

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Watched the first 3 episodes. They were I guess okay overall, but I will say that the animation this season is very good.

Also was awesome to see Sidious (voiced by Ian McDiarmid) make a cameo.


Yes it first three were decent. Show has massively improved since the first season.

Edit- also it's doing a nice job building the background to the Emperor's return in the sequels.

Anyone know when Vos/Ventress are expected in this?

I'm not caught up on the last two yet.

No news about them for now

It was nice seeing Ventress back in the latest episode. Her VA said her story will be told in other media, not in The Bad Batch. And that it won't contradict Dark Disciple

So explain her return in another novel or comic? Meh. Seems like theyre mostly ignoring the novels/comics, then leaving it to them to explain any contradictions. So not much different to the old canon.

At least her look was directly from DD. But she wasnt needed for this episode. It could have easily been Vos undercover as a bounty hunter taking interest in force sensitives to rescue them (which would align with his name drop in the OWK series).

Anyway despite all that I am honestly enjoying this show now, so kinda gutted its ending.