Freedom of Speech

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Klaw
Here's what Freedom of Speech includes:

Speech you agree with.
Speech you don't agree with.

Scribble
What about speech that is specifically designed to incite violence?

Klaw
Example?

Blakemore
Trump telling people to punch rioters at his rallies in 2016 would be a good example.

Klaw
Originally posted by Blakemore
Trump telling people to punch rioters at his rallies in 2016 would be a good example.

That should fall under Freedom of Speech and therefore be legal.

eThneoLgrRnae
Originally posted by Blakemore
Trump telling people to punch rioters at his rallies in 2016 would be a good example.


He didn't actually say that. Pretty sure he said he would pay their legal bills if they punched them or whatever. Sure, it was dumb to say that but he had a right to.

Those thugs were coming to a private venue and disrupting his rally. If it was me I would've probably said something worse than that.


Anyway, the democrats and their supporters are on record saying much worse things.

Klaw
Another thing that should be mentioned, if the Government can prosecute you for exercising speech, then you don't have FoS.

snowdragon
Originally posted by Klaw
Another thing that should be mentioned, if the Government can prosecute you for exercising speech, then you don't have FoS.

Or in the case of Social Media they (the govt) coerce said platforms to go allow to get along and they by proxy squelch free speech wink

Klaw
Well Social Media like FB and TT are private companies and therefore should not be forced to adhere to FoS laws.

Bashar Teg
did you know that organizing acts of insurrection and terrorism are not free speech? that's why trump is rightfully muzzled, though he really deserves a more traditional punishment for treason

Wonder Man

eThneoLgrRnae
Originally posted by Klaw
Well Social Media like FB and TT are private companies and therefore should not be forced to adhere to FoS laws.


Well then they should call themselves a publisher then instead of a "free speech platform" and thereby lose their liability protection.

They can't have it both ways.

Klaw
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Well then they should call themselves a publisher then instead of a "free speech platform" and thereby lose their liability protection.

They can't have it both ways.

Agreed. thumb up

eThneoLgrRnae
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
did you know that organizing acts of insurrection and terrorism are not free speech? that's why trump is rightfully muzzled, though he really deserves a more traditional punishment for treason


But of course when those acts of insurrection and terrorism are coming from leftist thugs like Antifa or BLM that is totally fine, amirite? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
Example? If I went up to someone and convinced them to murder someone I didn't like (extreme interpersonal example), or (on a larger social scale) someone inciting a crowd into a violent riot or pogrom

Klaw
Originally posted by Scribble
If I went up to someone and convinced them to murder someone I didn't like (extreme interpersonal example), or (on a larger social scale) someone inciting a crowd into a violent riot or pogrom

That should fall under Freedom of Speech and therefore be legal.

cdtm
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
did you know that organizing acts of insurrection and terrorism are not free speech? that's why trump is rightfully muzzled, though he really deserves a more traditional punishment for treason

Why, for insisting the election was stolen?

That's just partisan politics, not treason. Supposedly George W. Bush Jr. stole the election in 2000, and again in 2004, listening to pundits and partisan people. Should they all have been in prison?

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
That should fall under Freedom of Speech and therefore be legal. So if I manipulated a mentally ill person into murdering someone I don't like by convincing the mentally ill person that the person I don't like is spying on them / out to get them etc., I shouldn't face any criminal responsibility?

Klaw
Originally posted by cdtm
Why, for insisting the election was stolen?

That's just partisan politics, not treason. Supposedly George W. Bush Jr. stole the election in 2000, and again in 2004, listening to pundits and partisan people. Should they all have been in prison?

Ding Ding Ding!

Watch the Leftists deflect.

Klaw
Originally posted by Scribble
So if I manipulated a mentally ill person into murdering someone I don't like by convincing the mentally ill person that the person I don't like is spying on them / out to get them etc., I shouldn't face any criminal responsibility?

Correct.

I know it might be hard for people to accept.

But I don't think that using speech to incite violence is not protected.

If someone chooses to commit violence with someone's speech as reasoning, that's on the criminal that committed the crime.

jaden_2.0
Good to know you think Hitler was innocent 👍

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
Correct.

I know it might be hard for people to accept.

But I don't think that using speech to incite violence is not protected.

If someone chooses to commit violence with someone's speech as reasoning, that's on the criminal that committed the crime. I disagree, and I think your perspective is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the use and power of language (as well as free will and personal agency), but if that's your opinion then fair enough. Thanks for the clear and direct answer.

eThneoLgrRnae
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Good to know you think Hitler was innocent 👍


No one thinks that lol.

Klaw
Originally posted by Scribble
I disagree, and I think your perspective is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the use and power of language (as well as free will and personal agency), but if that's your opinion then fair enough. Thanks for the clear and direct answer.

Glad we can be respectful while still disagreeing.

jaden_2.0
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
No one thinks that lol.

Well he didn't gas those Jews himself, did he?

He used his words to incite others to do it on his behalf. They're the ones that CHOSE to go ahead and do it.

eThneoLgrRnae
But I do think there are limits to free speech. Anyone who yells fire in a crowded theater when there isn't actually one and someone dies by getting trampled over then I think that person that wrongly yelled fire should suffer a heavy penalty for it.

Klaw

Old Man Whirly!
I have successfully triggered Voltron smile

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
Glad we can be respectful while still disagreeing. It's essential. Plus I'm not even entirely sure of what limits I'd place on speech, anyway. I actually agree with Eth's post above, there has to be some level of accountability for speech, or else it leads to social chaos


Being able to hold any opinion one likes is important to me, but I think that if your speech is shaping social / cultural situations (shouting "fire" in a theatre, convincing someone to murder someone) then it is no longer just speech, it is action

Scribble
This is kind of an obscure example, but: what if you scream into someone's ear so loud that it deafens them? (If that's even possible lol)


If you scream words and not just noises, surely that just counts as speech, right? So it'd be a part of free speech?

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I have successfully triggered Voltron smile

I already triggered voltron when I bumped the Floyd thread yesterday. within minutes there were 12 guests viewing that thread, then *poof* all vanished. The "who's online" page plus command-f is useful in observing this phenomenon smile

Klaw
Originally posted by Scribble
This is kind of an obscure example, but: what if you scream into someone's ear so loud that it deafens them? (If that's even possible lol)


If you scream words and not just noises, surely that just counts as speech, right? So it'd be a part of free speech?

That's an interesting situation.

Probably violates my personal space.

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
That's an interesting situation.

Probably violates my personal space. Isn't convincing a mentally ill person to attack you also speech turning into action that violates your personal space (and more)?


Idk, speech is literally a form of action, you can't speak without moving your mouth and vocal chords etc. I don't see much of a difference between attacking someone and convincing someone else to attack someone.

Klaw
Originally posted by Scribble
Isn't convincing a mentally ill person to attack you also speech turning into action that violates your personal space (and more)?


Idk, speech is literally a form of action, you can't speak without moving your mouth and vocal chords etc. I don't see much of a difference between attacking someone and convincing someone else to attack someone.

You make some good points, I'd have to think about it more and do some more research.

Hopefully ilikecomics will comment too.

I would like to hear his thoughts on this issue.

Bashar Teg
maybe dadudecomics is just busy at the moment

eThneoLgrRnae
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I already triggered voltron when I bumped the Floyd thread yesterday. within minutes there were 12 guests viewing that thread, then *poof* all vanished smile


No one is triggered by that piece of shit being locked up for 20+ years except maybe for the people who thinks he deserves life in prison or death penalty.

Scribble
Originally posted by Klaw
You make some good points, I'd have to think about it more and do some more research.

Hopefully ilikecomics will comment too.

I would like to hear his thoughts on this issue. It's a topic I'm often changing my views on because it's so weird and complicated, lol. I would like to hear ilikecomic's opinions on it too, yeah

Wonder Man

eThneoLgrRnae
@Bash: Oh so now dadudemon is that ilikecomics guy? You actually think that? Seriously?

Oh wait I forgot you are one of those idiots who thought for so long that I was Fly Attractor lmao.

Klaw
And I'm Eon Blue allegedly.

eThneoLgrRnae
LOL.

Blakemore

Bashar Teg
eh you're probably right about that one little thing, starfly. ddm seemed to get spooked out by Jan 6. I wonder why? did he get caught in some nefarious stalky business online? was he smearing feces on the walls of the capital with all the other "libertarians" and "centrists"? did he ironically drive himself into paranoia, after trying to convince me that I was going to be arrested for being an "antifa shill" while trump was president? guess we'll never knowsmile

eThneoLgrRnae
Oh, I'm right about far more than just that, bashy. I'm right like 99.999999% of the time which is far more than how often you are. wink

Klaw

eThneoLgrRnae
LOL. I was thinking of asking him that same thing.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Klaw
Are you drunk?

if he is, he's not beyond 2/10 drunk, judging by the minimal amount of typos. well beneath his level for any loss of recollection and reasoning ability. maybe you're just assmad over how he exposed your silly voltron games again?

Blakemore

eThneoLgrRnae
"Voltron games". laughing laughing laughing

Klaw
Of course words have consequences, I just don't think prosecution should be one of them.

Old Man Whirly!
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I already triggered voltron when I bumped the Floyd thread yesterday. within minutes there were 12 guests viewing that thread, then *poof* all vanished. The "who's online" page plus command-f is useful in observing this phenomenon smile I can imagine them all jumping on that and crying in the safe space. laughing out loud top notch!.

Bashar Teg
I was pc-insensitive with my comment and I apologize for that. It's actually control-f on windows, command-f for mac

Old Man Whirly!
I will use it smile

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