Silver Age Dr. Fate vs Dormammu.

MrMind

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, he wishes. He is multiversal on comicvine only.

lol

dormammu was said to display the power of omnipresence and omniscience upon absorbing eternity.
in early days he said so himself he can destroy the entire celestials race

with help of umar he was able to defeat multi eternity and later absorbed eternity's power. worlds within world, dimensions, entire universes were just fraction of eternity's power
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111204187/5438778-07085225824007.jpg

beatboks

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Fates power varied widely Pre COIE.

Not really. Though there are varying factors in his power at different times pre crisis. He gave up his full helmet of Nabu in the early 40s because he felt it taking him over. He instead wore a half Helmet that only came down to the nose. Without the full helm he wasn't as powerful magically. He still had magic, couldn't TP, TK has class 100 strength, was invulnerable (but needed to breath- his weakness) and when he was in places of power like Stonehenge, his tower the valley of mur could work magic on the same level he could with the helm.

He recovered it before the first JLA/JSA cross over and was back to his full power for the entirety of the Silver Age.

In one story where he merged with his wife Inza ( Which apparently had always meant to be the why it was supposed to be but Nabu wanted to retain control) he was more powerful.

Basically with the helm he's on the same tier magically as Dr Strange but can call onnthe powers of other Lordsnof order who have taken the form of gods. Most common one he called on very frequently was Amon Ra

beatboks

Originally posted by MrMind
lol

dormammu was said to display the power of omnipresence and omniscience upon absorbing eternity.
in early days he said so himself he can destroy the entire celestials race

with help of umar he was able to defeat multi eternity and later absorbed eternity's power. worlds within world, dimensions, entire universes were just fraction of eternity's power
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111204187/5438778-07085225824007.jpg

1. That as you said was with the help of his sister.
2. There was other context. Eternity not long before had split off pieces of himself so he could experience life as a mortal. This splitting weakened him drastically to the point it almost threatened the destruction of reality. Eternity had to call on the help of the Defenders to find and return these aspects. It was IIRC just after they had been reunited with him while he was still healing that Dormmamu and Umar drained him. He still wasn't back to full power/health

Sin I AM

I always thought Fate surpassed Strange. His magicks are in par but his physicals eclipse him

abhilegend

beatboks

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I always thought Fate surpassed Strange. His magicks are in par but his physicals eclipse him

See I always saw Fate's magic as marginally below Strange. He also has matter and energy manip powers that bring him up to equal (like Strange does the same with spells). That is he can drain and use energy and alter matter without having to do spells, more like how SS or Cap atom do.

Yes he has physicals on par with say action comics 1 Superman (not how he was powered up months afterwards but the literal faster than a bullet stronger than a locomotive tag line), but aside from the fact he can physically take a lot more punishment without shields I don't see that as all that useful in a magic battle.

abhilegend

Originally posted by beatboks
See I always saw Fate's magic as marginally below Strange. He also has matter and energy manip powers that bring him up to equal (like Strange does the same with spells). That is he can drain and use energy and alter matter without having to do spells, more like how SS or Cap atom do.

Yes he has physicals on par with say action comics 1 Superman (not how he was powered up months afterwards but the literal faster than a bullet stronger than a locomotive tag line), but aside from the fact he can physically take a lot more punishment without shields I don't see that as all that useful in a magic battle.
Fate is absolutely not below Strange in magic lol

lawest9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fate is absolutely not below Strange in magic lol

beatboks

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fate is absolutely not below Strange in magic lol

It's not that I see Fate's magical power below strange so much, it's more that the invocations he uses in spells are longer winded and more complex.

For example " Amon Ra you who are light shine in this thy servant so that I may expel the dark things with your light". Strange's spells just weren't as long winded.

abhilegend

Originally posted by beatboks
It's not that I see Fate's magical power below strange so much, it's more that the invocations he uses in spells are longer winded and more complex.

For example " Amon Ra you who are light shine in this thy servant so that I may expel the dark things with your light". Strange's spells just weren't as long winded.
That's just random bullshit. Fate is almost as powerful as the Spectre by his own admission. No incarnation of Strange is that powerful.

beatboks

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's just random bullshit. Fate is almost as powerful as the Spectre by his own admission. No incarnation of Strange is that powerful.

No Fate's not. Never has been.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgLivnCx_S4ha-zmLpKu05LjbO4xvIc31i5w&usqp=CAU

By Spectre's own words when Fate suggested them equals "Hardly"

Fate had to pull tricks to fight Spectre that he easily dealt with and then he equally easily dealt with Fate.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVKDuHmjlKhlckhYEUlKKdP7wTYs0EwB_XhQ&usqp=CAU

He is nowhere near being "almost as powerful as Spectre"

abhilegend

Originally posted by beatboks
No Fate's not. Never has been.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgLivnCx_S4ha-zmLpKu05LjbO4xvIc31i5w&usqp=CAU

By Spectre's own words when Fate suggested them equals "Hardly"

Fate had to pull tricks to fight Spectre that he easily dealt with and then he equally easily dealt with Fate.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVKDuHmjlKhlckhYEUlKKdP7wTYs0EwB_XhQ&usqp=CAU

He is nowhere near being "almost as powerful as Spectre"
Uh-huh

http://i.imgur.com/5sF3KTK.jpg

Half helmed Fate koed Spectre and himself.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZRYG45N5N-g/VuN9BrmsURI/AAAAAAAAAyg/m8YktNgaHJoJMyks94dqO-Nt0Svrjpe6ACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO037.JPG

Old Man Whirly!

Silver age fate was all over the place tbh. He even varied Helmet to Helmet.

MrMind

Originally posted by beatboks
Not really. Though there are varying factors in his power at different times pre crisis. He gave up his full helmet of Nabu in the early 40s because he felt it taking him over. He instead wore a half Helmet that only came down to the nose. Without the full helm he wasn't as powerful magically. He still had magic, couldn't TP, TK has class 100 strength, was invulnerable (but needed to breath- his weakness) and when he was in places of power like Stonehenge, his tower the valley of mur could work magic on the same level he could with the helm.

He recovered it before the first JLA/JSA cross over and was back to his full power for the entirety of the Silver Age.

In one story where he merged with his wife Inza ( Which apparently had always meant to be the why it was supposed to be but Nabu wanted to retain control) he was more powerful.

Basically with the helm he's on the same tier magically as Dr Strange but can call onnthe powers of other Lordsnof order who have taken the form of gods. Most common one he called on very frequently was Amon Ra Originally posted by abhilegend
Fate is absolutely not below Strange in magic lol

Hold on a minute now, what feats does fate have to even compete in such a level,

Dormammu has fought evenly with eternity many times

has fate done anything on the level let's say, sealing panteon god like gaea

beatboks

Originally posted by MrMind
Hold on a minute now, what feats does fate have to even compete in such a level,

Dormammu has fought evenly with eternity many times

has fate done anything on the level let's say, sealing panteon god like gaea

Fate fought thebaztec God of war (who was a lord of Chaos) and all life was destroyed on earth by the battle. He simply grew to the point that the earth looked like Mr Miracles hover disks under his feet and than used his magic to return everything to normal.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139352/4384313-ynar%20and%20vandaemon%202.jpg

He fought plenty of other gods as well. His battle vs thw lord of Chaos Vandeamon and the Lord of Order Ynar they had warped the nearby cosmos to their will and he changed it back. He was amped there though as that was when he merged with his wife.

MrMind

Originally posted by beatboks
Fate fought thebaztec God of war (who was a lord of Chaos) and all life was destroyed on earth by the battle. He simply grew to the point that the earth looked like Mr Miracles hover disks under his feet and than used his magic to return everything to normal.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139352/4384313-ynar%20and%20vandaemon%202.jpg

He fought plenty of other gods as well. His battle vs thw lord of Chaos Vandeamon and the Lord of Order Ynar they had warped the nearby cosmos to their will and he changed it back. He was amped there though as that was when he merged with his wife.

so he fought a bunch of featless wonders, unlike dormammu who actually shown being superior to the likes of mephisto, classic strange, gaea, shuma gorath (which many of them have galaxy level feats)

lol earth? that's cute, dormammu rage alone threatened to destroy the dark dimension, the dark dimension by itself is bigger than a universe (multiple realities merged into one)

abhilegend

MrMind

Originally posted by abhilegend
Dormammu never fought Eternity as equal.

dormmy came up on top several times, granted he had help each time, but their power margin is close.

let me know when fate can defeat spectre, even with prep

beatboks

Originally posted by MrMind
so he fought a bunch of featless wonders, unlike dormammu who actually shown being superior to the likes of mephisto, classic strange, gaea, shuma gorath (which many of them have galaxy level feats)

lol earth? that's cute, dormammu rage alone threatened to destroy the dark dimension, the dark dimension by itself is bigger than a universe (multiple realities merged into one)

1. Not featelss as they had feats of reality warping on at least a solar system level in the stories they were in (I.e had feats)

2. Hector Fate who's on the same level as classic has beaten Mordru a few times and Mordru has feats on the exact same level as Dormammu with almost identical context.

3. Fate has stood his ground vs Spectre for several pages. He lost in the end (as per the scan i showed), but that was after they fought for like 6 or 7 pages. Added to which it was because of the helm of Nabu at the end of that Story that Kullack was defeated (the who casually made the Spectre his hitch to fight for him against Fate). Later less powerful versions of Fate like Inza also faired ok vs Spec

4. You replied to a post where I said Fate is Stange level asking why. Strange is that level and not Dormammu level, but he has beaten him a few times because that is how magic users works.

Fate would fare as well vs Dormammu as Strange does regularly. Fate's staple move is to drain energy from who he fights to use it against them (the exact same way Strange first beat Dormammu by draining energy from the very realm that Dormammu's power comes from).

abhilegend

Originally posted by MrMind
dormmy came up on top several times, granted he had help each time, but their power margin is close.

let me know when fate can defeat spectre, even with prep
Never happened. Dormammu was a gnat to Eternity. Here, Fate knocks out Spectre.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZRYG45N5N-g/VuN9BrmsURI/AAAAAAAAAyg/m8YktNgaHJoJMyks94dqO-Nt0Svrjpe6ACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO037.JPG

Juntai

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh-huh

http://i.imgur.com/5sF3KTK.jpg

Half helmed Fate koed Spectre and himself.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZRYG45N5N-g/VuN9BrmsURI/AAAAAAAAAyg/m8YktNgaHJoJMyks94dqO-Nt0Svrjpe6ACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO037.JPG To be fair, thats also before Spectre Vol 3, which put these characters into wildly different places. Fate has admitted many times since he's nothing next to Spectre and retconned their earliest meetings, both Nabu and Kent Nelson.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Juntai
To be fair, thats also before Spectre Vol 3, which put these characters into wildly different places. Fate has admitted many times since he's nothing next to Spectre and retconned their earliest meetings, both Nabu and Kent Nelson.
Even taking Spectre v3 and MM v2 24 retcons in account, Spectre was more powerful than Dormammu.

Juntai

That's also fair. He was wildly powerful in the Silver Age still.

beatboks

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never happened. Dormammu was a gnat to Eternity. Here, Fate knocks out Spectre.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZRYG45N5N-g/VuN9BrmsURI/AAAAAAAAAyg/m8YktNgaHJoJMyks94dqO-Nt0Svrjpe6ACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO037.JPG

Also to be fair, we have to take into consideration that in the case of Kent, Hector and the Jarred versions of Fate they were made immune to magic. We can't really be sure if the reason Spectre was Kod was just because he was struck with something his mystical protections couldn't shield from.

I mean in day of Judgement Dr Occult was able to hold Spectre at bay for a while with his disk of the seven that is anti magic and counters it. We know from many showings that magic also doesn't affect him like it does others.

I don't think for a second that he is anywhere near the power level of even Sargon, Zatanna etc let alone Fate and certainly not Spectre. His disk is just a Kryptonite to all magic users (hence why he can take down hell lords like Koth in their own dimension). Its also why Wotan a sorcerer and a scientist sent robots against him in All Star Squadron instead of using spells (that he's much better known for).

Then again, that being the case Kent's immunity to magic makes him an equally effective battering ram vs Dormammu that he was vs Spectre

"Id"

For the sake of clarity can the OP specifiy which Fate are we using?
Half Helm
Full Helm
Full Helm + Inza (The complete version)

I assume it is Full Helm.

When dealing with Dormammu the comparisons to Dr. Strange are unavoidable. I always found Kent Nelson and Herctor comparable Classic Strange. In particular his spell casting. Fate is capable of invoking thousands of spells at the drop of a dime, something I have not seen Dr. Strange replicate. Dr. Fate should be able to deal with Doirmammu just fine, in his solo run he regularly deals with equivalent foes.

lawest9

Originally posted by "Id"
For the sake of clarity can the OP specifiy which Fate are we using?
Half Helm
Full Helm
Full Helm + Inza (The complete version)

I assume it is Full Helm.

When dealing with Dormammu the comparisons to Dr. Strange are unavoidable. I always found Kent Nelson and Herctor comparable Classic Strange. In particular his spell casting. Fate is capable of invoking thousands of spells at the drop of a dime, something I have not seen Dr. Strange replicate. Dr. Fate should be able to deal with Doirmammu just fine, in his solo run he regularly deals with equivalent foes. Actually I did clarify which Fate was being used by saying 'silver age', this was still Kent Nelson at this point.