Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Byrne era Superman is one of the weaker version of Supes, who is the most powerful person/being he can defeat from DC or Marvel?

He beats Superman

Good thread.

Originally posted by lawest9
Byrne era Superman is one of the weaker version of Supes, who is the most powerful person/being he can defeat from DC or Marvel?

You mean strictly Byrne's run, or before his first power up? If the later, you include feats and showings that canonically take place during that period but were published after?

In a straight up brawl? Probably MODOK

But if he fights smart and uses ranged attacks he could take the deer that beat up Wolverine and if he spams HV he could probably dehydrate one of those crocs that gave Warpath fits.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
In a straight up brawl? Probably MODOK

But if he fights smart and uses ranged attacks he could take the deer that beat up Wolverine and if he spams HV he could probably dehydrate one of those crocs that gave Warpath fits.

Wolverine got beat up by a deer? Scans?

Originally posted by Delta1938
You mean strictly Byrne's run, or before his first power up? If the later, you include feats and showings that canonically take place during that period but were published after? Before DOS Doomsday.

Originally posted by lawest9
Before DOS Doomsday.

There was a retake on DOS Doomsday in Action Comics. Superman didn't appear to be any more successful against him than he was during the original story encounters. It actually made me believe that Superman was always as powerful as he is presently. That being said, no single Herald level character has a hope of beating him, because he has always been as powerful as the plot needs him to be.

Originally posted by Stoic
There was a retake on DOS Doomsday in Action Comics. Superman didn't appear to be any more successful against him than he was during the original story encounters. It actually made me believe that Superman was always as powerful as he is presently. That being said, no single Herald level character has a hope of beating him, because he has always been as powerful as the plot needs him to be.

Wasn't that when he was still split?

Originally posted by Stoic
There was a retake on DOS Doomsday in Action Comics. Superman didn't appear to be any more successful against him than he was during the original story encounters. It actually made me believe that Superman was always as powerful as he is presently. That being said, no single Herald level character has a hope of beating him, because he has always been as powerful as the plot needs him to be.

Conversely, if we take statements at face value, Superman directly compared Damage's punch to Doomsday's, and said Damage hit harder. He obv didn't die then, so....

Originally posted by Delta1938
Wolverine got beat up by a deer? Scans? 🤣🤣🤣

Galactus, like a bullet through the back of his head.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Wolverine got beat up by a deer? Scans?


He got one shotted. Give me a bit and I'll find it.

And I'm obviously joking about Supes beating Modok. Modok chokes him out.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Wasn't that when he was still split?

I'm not recalling your reference? Sorry.

Originally posted by lawest9
🤣🤣🤣

Exactly. No matter what era Superman is in, he's simply more powerful than the rest. He was so powerful prior to Byrne's run, that they had to nerf him.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not recalling your reference? Sorry.


I think he was saying when Superman encountered Doomsday again in Rebirth, Superman was still half of himself(post-Crisis Superman). It was until Superman Reborn he and N52 Superman merged together

He could probably beat 5 Thors

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not recalling your reference? Sorry.


Mostly what Qwerty said, except to my understanding Superman had been split in two, creating New 52 Superman. That being the case I got second hand, but the same writer(I think) who merged them explicitly showed Post-CRISIS Superman was weaker than before, and he couldn't figure out why, when him, Lois and Jon were living on New 52 Earth in SUPERMAN: LOIS & CLARK.

After DOS, Superman had multiple clear power ups between him coming back from the dead and FLASHPOINT. The first of which I believe was under the same writer(well one of the writers for the power up) who had the Doomsday fight Post-FLASHPOINT, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
He got one shotted. Give me a bit and I'll find it.

And I'm obviously joking about Supes beating Modok. Modok chokes him out.

Isn't Modok the one with tiny arms? If so, choking Superman out with those tiny short arms? Bada is jealous.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Mostly what Qwerty said, except to my understanding Superman had been split in two, creating New 52 Superman. That being the case I got second hand, but the same writer(I think) who merged them explicitly showed Post-CRISIS Superman was weaker than before, and he couldn't figure out why, when him, Lois and Jon were living on New 52 Earth in SUPERMAN: LOIS & CLARK.

After DOS, Superman had multiple clear power ups between him coming back from the dead and FLASHPOINT. The first of which I believe was under the same writer(well one of the writers for the power up) who had the Doomsday fight Post-FLASHPOINT, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the clarification. My point is that if Doomsday were to again appear in DC Comics, he would still give Superman the fight of his life, because plot insists upon this happening. This is regardless to whatever power ups may have been stitched into previous arcs. All the same, I maintain that no one can beat Superman. It was written clear as day that his dials go above every other character. He's the Champion of the Megaverse. Not even being sarcastic here. No one can beat him on a consistent basis.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Wolverine got beat up by a deer? Scans?

https://64.media.tumblr.com/e3b9eb9615c0031119776ea8d5d3c2a0/tumblr_n5zj49HTP71tnjnoco1_640.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3747788-wolverine18007.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
Thanks for the clarification. My point is that if Doomsday were to again appear in DC Comics, he would still give Superman the fight of his life, because plot insists upon this happening. This is regardless to whatever power ups may have been stitched into previous arcs. All the same, I maintain that no one can beat Superman. It was written clear as day that his dials go above every other character. He's the Champion of the Megaverse. Not even being sarcastic here. No one can beat him on a consistent basis. Maybe not consists not but he does have some defeats.

Originally posted by tkitna
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e3b9eb9615c0031119776ea8d5d3c2a0/tumblr_n5zj49HTP71tnjnoco1_640.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3747788-wolverine18007.jpg Are you sure that was an ordinary deer?

It was the God of Deers.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
It was the God of Deers. Apparently. 😆

While ya'll laughing a Logan getting his ass kicked by Bambi, I'm wondering why he was trying to sneak up on that stag from behind...

Originally posted by Robtard
While ya'll laughing a Logan getting his ass kicked by Bambi, I'm wondering why he was trying to sneak up on that stag from behind...

A piece of deer ass is a little gamey but still a piece of ass🤷

https://media2.giphy.com/media/26hit80bQkCIceYA8/giphy.gif

Few facts about the deer thing.

It's been a KMC forum joke for as long as the site existed. Old-timers are well aware of the context, but choose to ignore it to keep the joke going - which is fine, as we do that for plenty of other characters.

Alpha Flight Shaman's student sucked at stealth, him breaking the branch caused the deer to freak out and kick Logan in the face:

https://i.ibb.co/2MDvK2v/deer1.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qC7m9j6/deer2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Dzw9Fmt/deer3.jpg


Wolverine wasn't KO'd - in fact, he managed to beat Shaman's student to the car with enough time to spare to change his shirt:

https://i.ibb.co/3mjb2Z0/deer4.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5RwMqB0/deer5.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/5j9QGNj/deer6.jpg

This is what Wolverine wanted to do:

https://i.ibb.co/SJM8KJd/g66voeu867i51.png

And he is perfectly capable of accomplishing said feat:

https://i.ibb.co/mXxxX33/stealth1.jpg https://i.ibb.co/sHY2xhr/stealth2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/kgSMCPn/stealth3-A.png

We've had dozens of entire threads dedicated to this subject (or derailed, like this one here). History loves to repeat itself.

Same with Darkseid vs. Stairs, Apocalypse vs. Table or Hulk vs. Python...

Or Surfer vs. Mexicans (South Americans, actually), Darkseid vs. Muggers or Thanos vs. Cops.

Well, Apocalypse vs. Table actually had no good explanation, so KMC needed to wait for Frank Tieri's Apoc/Dracula mini-series, where Nur proved mighty enough to break a table with one punch.

Phil didn't do his homework and forgot to include the scan in the revamped respect thread. Shame on him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thanks for the clarification. My point is that if Doomsday were to again appear in DC Comics, he would still give Superman the fight of his life, because plot insists upon this happening. This is regardless to whatever power ups may have been stitched into previous arcs. All the same, I maintain that no one can beat Superman. It was written clear as day that his dials go above every other character. He's the Champion of the Megaverse. Not even being sarcastic here. No one can beat him on a consistent basis.

It was supposed to be DOS Doomsday he faced in that instance, and Superman had well surpassed that by FLASHPOINT. In fact, if it was H/P Doomsday in INFINITE CRISIS(I genuinely don't know as Doomsday gets confusing by that point) him and Kal-L beat him so quickly that either could have won 1v1. So it didn't make sense DOS Doomsday would give Superman such a fight by that point, and other examples supporting the gap had closed, and you believed this meant he was just as powerful as during DOS. When the same writer explicitly had him weaker in the New 52 Universe in LOUS & CLARK. I assume it was the he was split in two to make New 52 Superman.

Originally posted by Delta1938
It was supposed to be DOS Doomsday he faced in that instance, and Superman had well surpassed that by FLASHPOINT. In fact, if it was H/P Doomsday in INFINITE CRISIS(I genuinely don't know as Doomsday gets confusing by that point) him and Kal-L beat him so quickly that either could have won 1v1. So it didn't make sense DOS Doomsday would give Superman such a fight by that point, and other examples supporting the gap had closed, and you believed this meant he was just as powerful as during DOS. When the same writer explicitly had him weaker in the New 52 Universe in LOUS & CLARK. I assume it was the he was split in two to make New 52 Superman.
Well, Infinite Crisis Doomsday I believe was Doomsday Rex.

Doomsday was almost killed by Imperiex at OWAW

https://ibb.co/hKrg86d
https://ibb.co/7pvh7hh

Later in Superman #175, Doomsday was resurrected by combining kryptonian's DNA and was changed forever by the encounter with Imperiex

https://ibb.co/ngBmDgf
https://ibb.co/xF0fjsB
https://ibb.co/ZmHR8Wz

And I also think the Doomsday that appeared in Rebirth was a different version from DOS iteration

https://ibb.co/pLjQsBq
https://ibb.co/9N1YVPQ

Superman comments on this Doomsday not only is faster and more savage than he remembered, but also could use strategies

Yes, qwerty is correct.

The initial version of Doomsday is gone, it's essentially just recreations or rebooted versions .

Also correct that it was depowered Superdad pre-merger and not DoS DD, too.

As for the answer to this thread, Byrne Superman was still the most powerful hero in DC, so the answer is still most people. Just because he is orders of magnitude more powerful now, doesn't mean he wasn't already at a very high level.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Wolverine wasn't KO'd - in fact, he managed to beat Shaman's student to the car with enough time to spare to change his shirt:

https://i.ibb.co/3mjb2Z0/deer4.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5RwMqB0/deer5.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/5j9QGNj/deer6.jpg



Honestly this doesn't prove he wasn't KOed. He even mentions his healing factor. Could have been just recovered.

Speaking of the power levels.
You know I've finally gotten to the point in my age where I miss the 90s comics like Williamson, Jergens, Starlin, Marz etc. There was a lot more feeling of stakes even if the stakes were often lower. I feel like Morrison's take going into the Green Lantern run was correct where he was saying you can only do the next biggest universe ending baddie so many times before you pull it back. I think Marvel and DC have begun to paint themselves into a corner.
I've been buying more complete/omnibus collections of old stuff than new material, though I do still keep up with current comics.

Originally posted by Juntai
Speaking of the power levels.
You know I've finally gotten to the point in my age where I miss the 90s comics like Williamson, Jergens, Starlin, Marz etc. There was a lot more feeling of stakes even if the stakes were often lower. I feel like Morrison's take going into the Green Lantern run was correct where he was saying you can only do the next biggest universe ending baddie so many times before you pull it back. I think Marvel and DC have begun to paint themselves into a corner.
I've been buying more complete/omnibus collections of old stuff than new material, though I do still keep up with current comics. No doubt mate, the comics today just aren't up to snuff and stakes and tension are a big part of that.

Originally posted by lawest9
Byrne era Superman is one of the weaker version of Supes, who is the most powerful person/being he can defeat from DC or Marvel?

A misconception that Byrne Superman was particularly weak.


This is the same Superman who survived sitting at the center of a collapsing Sun Eater.

If we removed flagship characters, which other characters got boosts? I strongly believe that Byrne Superman would've beaten Rogol Zaar, because he has always been as strong as the plot needed him to be. I mean, did Zod get a boosts? Why did Zod appear to give Superman a better fight than Darkseid back in the days of pre flash? Superman is simply a metatextual almighty character that has been paraded around as being peers to guys that he will eventually flatten, even though they initially gave him a decent fight. Check out the latest issues of Action Comics. Mongul is a badass right now, but watch and see what's in store for him. No one can beat Superman.

Originally posted by Stoic
If we removed flagship characters, which other characters got boosts? I strongly believe that Byrne Superman would've beaten Rogol Zaar, because he has always been as strong as the plot needed him to be. I mean, did Zod get a boosts? Why did Zod appear to give Superman a better fight than Darkseid back in the days of pre flash? Superman is simply a metatextual almighty character that has been paraded around as being peers to guys that he will eventually flatten, even though they initially gave him a decent fight. Check out the latest issues of Action Comics. Mongul is a badass right now, but watch and see what's in store for him. No one can beat Superman. It's because Superman is the most powerful reality warper in comics. The story forms around him.

But yeah, even excluding that, it's pretty clear that being the most powerful man on Earth is just his floor, and he has many gears after that. He can be surprised and roughed up though before he realizes he has to hit the next level. Which is something he gets criticized for by his peers occasionally as well.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's because Superman is the most powerful reality warper in comics. The story forms around him.

But yeah, even excluding that, it's pretty clear that being the most powerful man on Earth is just his floor, and he has many gears after that. He can be surprised and roughed up though before he realizes he has to hit the next level. Which is something he gets criticized for by his peers occasionally as well.

In a recent issue of Superman/Batman, Mxy even lays this out pretty clearly.

Originally posted by Stoic
If we removed flagship characters, which other characters got boosts? I strongly believe that Byrne Superman would've beaten Rogol Zaar, because he has always been as strong as the plot needed him to be. I mean, did Zod get a boosts? Why did Zod appear to give Superman a better fight than Darkseid back in the days of pre flash? Superman is simply a metatextual almighty character that has been paraded around as being peers to guys that he will eventually flatten, even though they initially gave him a decent fight. Check out the latest issues of Action Comics. Mongul is a badass right now, but watch and see what's in store for him. No one can beat Superman.


Having looked back recently, I can confirm Byrne Superman is not weak at all.


Marv Wolfman's Superman was.


He wrong Adventures of Superman, while Byrne handled the mainline comic and Action fell into different hands.


Marv Wolfman had Superman lose to the Fearsome Five, he was honestly more pathetic then current Thor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In a recent issue of Superman/Batman, Mxy even lays this out pretty clearly. You got the issue or scans? I've been on-off with keeping up with some stuff. I consume in waves.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Honestly this doesn't prove he wasn't KOed. He even mentions his healing factor. Could have been just recovered.

And managed to beat Charles to the car, clean himself up and change his clothes - despite Charles treating it as emergency and sprinting there from the start? Without him noticing, too?

He is not Quicksilver or Nightcrawler.

Seeing how the student would react in such situation was very much in Wolverine's interest, hence his death speech on the beginning:

https://i.ibb.co/NF33Vz9/deer0.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
It's because Superman is the most powerful reality warper in comics. The story forms around him.

But yeah, even excluding that, it's pretty clear that being the most powerful man on Earth is just his floor, and he has many gears after that. He can be surprised and roughed up though before he realizes he has to hit the next level. Which is something he gets criticized for by his peers occasionally as well.

Totally agree with you. What I've always found LOL-Worthy throughout the years of reading Superman comics, is him being vulnerable to magic. He's actually magical without having to tap into some unknown mystical source of power if you take time to really think about it. I once asked an Army Sergeant if he could think of one comic character that could beat Superman, and he laughed before saying that fighting Superman in real time would be impossible, because it would end nearly as fast as it began.

Originally posted by cdtm
Having looked back recently, I can confirm Byrne Superman is not weak at all.


Marv Wolfman's Superman was.


He wrong Adventures of Superman, while Byrne handled the mainline comic and Action fell into different hands.


Marv Wolfman had Superman lose to the Fearsome Five, he was honestly more pathetic then current Thor.

I remember those days. I also remember wondering how the hell he could feel a punch from Mammoth after lifting more weight with his pinky than Mammoth could while using all of his strength.

Originally posted by Juntai
You got the issue or scans? I've been on-off with keeping up with some stuff. I consume in waves.
Issue number is on the scans' name( Batman/Superman 22)

https://ibb.co/pJG7hmw
https://ibb.co/G3rVHk5
https://ibb.co/SQGZfFF
https://ibb.co/hch2YnR

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Issue number is on the scans' name( Batman/Superman 22)

https://ibb.co/pJG7hmw
https://ibb.co/G3rVHk5
https://ibb.co/SQGZfFF
https://ibb.co/hch2YnR

thanks for getting them for me.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Issue number is on the scans' name( Batman/Superman 22)

https://ibb.co/pJG7hmw
https://ibb.co/G3rVHk5
https://ibb.co/SQGZfFF
https://ibb.co/hch2YnR My man.