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sabers
force
all out

Canon only.

Don't know about sabers because I don't think Sidious placed any focus on becoming a better swordsman, but judging by how casually he raped Vader in the ESB era, I think he'd beat Yoda in Force and all out with mid-diff at most.

Probably Palpatine.

But given he was toying with Mace in ROTS id prefer more solid evidence that hes grown considerably more powerful by the OT. More solid evidence than owning Vader that is.

More than one source has mentioned that after the events of RotS, Palpatine spent the majority of his time hoarding and studying a vast trove of ancient Jedi/Sith artifacts and whatnot(the guy had access to the Jedi archives in its entirety, in addition to everything else he had collected)... And in SW, furthering one's overall knowledge in the Force is very much a path to greater power. This is also how Luke still continued to massively expand his power/skill over the years, despite never really having a proper master -- he was also relic-hoarding.

So I'd actually be more curious to know why anyone would think that Palpatine's power didn't increase considerably after ~20 years of incessant knowledge-hoarding..? Especially when new canon has heavily indicated that the Palpatine bloodline is a peer of the Skywalker bloodline(implying near limitless potential.) /shrug


...And for what it's worth, the "knowledge = power" thing was obviously prevalent in Legends as well(recall Bane's absurd growth after just studying Revan's holocron, for example)... So this isn't exactly a new concept.

Aside from that canon also made it clear that Vader's power continued growing after ROTS (and during ROTS he was already above Dooku's level). So Sidious would also want to make sure that he held clear superiority over Vader, which is where hoarding knowledge and increasing his personal power as much as possible comes in to play. Allowing possible rivals to exist isn't something Sidious would ever be okay with, but Vader obviously wasn't even approaching his level as of ESB.

Originally posted by Galan007
More than one source has mentioned that after the events of RotS, Palpatine spent the majority of his time hoarding and studying a vast trove of ancient Jedi/Sith artifacts and whatnot(the guy had access to the Jedi archives in its entirety, in addition to everything else he had collected)... And in SW, furthering one's overall knowledge in the Force is very much a path to greater power. This is also how Luke still continued to massively expand his power/skill over the years, despite never really having a proper master -- he was also relic-hoarding.

So I'd actually be more curious to know why anyone would think that Palpatine's power didn't increase considerably after ~20 years of incessant knowledge-hoarding..? Especially when new canon has heavily indicated that the Palpatine bloodline is a peer of the Skywalker bloodline(implying near limitless potential.) /shrug


...And for what it's worth, the "knowledge = power" thing was obviously prevalent in Legends as well(recall Bane's absurd growth after just studying Revan's holocron, for example)... So this isn't exactly a new concept.



Fair enough.

Also just remembered he eventually has the power of ALL THE SITH. So there is proof he grew in knowledge and power, im just questioning if we know by how much from the PT to OT. But then more likely he learned in that time period than in between the OT and ST I guess.

It's hard to say exactly how much Sidious's power grew between the PT and OT, but I do agree that it seems to have been a very considerable gain.

Because some of the feats OT Sidious has done with low-diff, like effortlessly raping Vader and casually killing the Verminoth, are things that I'm not sure that ROTS Yoda could do at all. But even if he could, I think it would be very high-diff and taxing.

So for me that's the difference. Back in ROTS, Yoda and Sidious were pretty equally powered. But I personally think that OT Sidious was at a level where he would beat ROTS Yoda handily.

Probably. Doubt Palpatines bloodline is on par with Skywalkers though (Unless ive missed a source). Impression I got from ROS was just that its also extremely potent.

I mean it couldnt be right, unless he was also born of the Force ?

Maybe not exactly equal, but definitely close to that level.

^ Shouldnt be unless he was also born of the Force. I didnt get the impression from ROS that their bloodlines are peers. Though its very likely the 2nd most potent bloodline.

Remember Palpatine had mastery and knowledge far beyond any other Jedi/Sith. So have to account for that in how powerful he was.

I think they're meant to be very close in canon.

The Force revolves around balance. So the force creating the Skywalker bloodline could have simply been the natural answer for the Palpatine bloodline.

Theres no evidence that Sidious ever reached the limits of his potential. It's a lot more logical to believe that he just continued growing more powerful over the years because of his constant hoarding of knowledge like Galan said.

I know I keep saying it, but the best gauge we have is Vader. I think most would agree that in new canon it's debatable whether or not ROTS Yoda could even beat OT Vader at all, but even if he could, it would be with VERY high-diff. Now contrast that to how effortlessly OT Sidious raped Vader, and the difference seems clear.

Point is- if Sidious's power hadn't grown between ROTS and the OT, then Vader would have been a legitimate rival (because Sidious and Yoda were about equal during ROTS).....but Vader obviously wasnt even approaching Sidious's level by the OT.

I see it as; OT Sidious>>OT Vader~ROTS Yoda~ROTS Sidious

My Point is Yoda shows everyone has a limit in terms of the basics (Sabers, TK e.t.c.).

We obviously know Sidious is a lot more powerful by ROS but that seems to have been via rituals and force absorption. Aside from that I dont think hoarding knowledge and artifacts would necessarily in and of itself make him more powerful in the basic Jedi/Sith abilities, given he was already the most powerful Sith of all time.

Youre very possibly right though, but I think its a bit of a leap to assume OT Vader and PT Yoda are equals. Though I see your point in that I doubt Yoda would own Vader as easily as Palpatine did.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Probably. Doubt Palpatines bloodline is on par with Skywalkers though (Unless ive missed a source). Impression I got from ROS was just that its also extremely potent.

I mean it couldnt be right, unless he was also born of the Force ?

It's not even close, no contest, it's just that it's very powerful. Sidious is just a powerful skilled force user, Skywalker is a deity.

Skywalker bloodline is stronger than Palpatine bloodline, look at Anakin vs the son and daughter

Originally posted by Inedian
It's not even close, no contest, it's just that it's very powerful. Sidious is just a powerful skilled force user, Skywalker is a deity.


Originally posted by banana3
Skywalker bloodline is stronger than Palpatine bloodline, look at Anakin vs the son and daughter