If Classic Odin is 100 what about these guys

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MrMind
Surtur
Nightmare
Neron
Trigon
Chthon
Nabu
Mordru
Monarch
Jenny Quantum
Cyttorak

lawest9
I believe only Mordru matches Odin, everyone else is a step or two behind.

Classic NES
Not sure Odin could handle any of the major demons in Marvel.

abhilegend
Originally posted by lawest9
I believe only Mordru matches Odin, everyone else is a step or two behind.
laughing out loud

Only Surtur and Cyttorak are less powerful in the list.

MrMind
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Only Surtur and Cyttorak are less powerful in the list.

I was gonna say lol

StiltmanFTW
They are all over 9000.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They are all over 9000.
Surtur is a Thor villain though

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Surtur is a Thor villain though

Yes.

Which still makes him better than Thor's demented father.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Only Surtur and Cyttorak are less powerful in the list.
I'd also add Nightmare.

StiltmanFTW
Zopzop, where are your nudes?

zopzop
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Zopzop, where are your nudes?
https://i.postimg.cc/NMv00LBw/jerry-the-mouse-tom-and-jerry.gif

MrMind
Originally posted by zopzop
I'd also add Nightmare.

nightmare just captured beyonders

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
I'd also add Nightmare.
Nightmare fluctuates too much

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nightmare fluctuates too much

And Odin doesn't? wink

carver9
Mordru is the only one that "probably" matches Odin, the rest falls below.

Endless Mike
Surtur: 80
Surtur w/Sword and Casket: 110
Nightmare: 60
Neron: 75
Trigon: 95
Cthon: Not sure
Nabu: 120
Mordru: 150
Monarch: 85
Jenny Quantum: 50
Cyttorak: 105

MrMind
Originally posted by carver9
Mordru is the only one that "probably" matches Odin, the rest falls below.

mordru literally has multiversal feats beyond the scope of galactus let alone odin

MrMind
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Surtur: 80
Surtur w/Sword and Casket: 110
Nightmare: 60
Neron: 75
Trigon: 95
Cthon: Not sure
Nabu: 120
Mordru: 150
Monarch: 85
Jenny Quantum: 50
Cyttorak: 105

lol jenny quantum 50? wtf

you don't think trigon has better feats than odin?

abhilegend
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Odin doesn't? wink
Good point. Originally posted by Endless Mike
Surtur: 80
Surtur w/Sword and Casket: 110
Nightmare: 60
Neron: 75
Trigon: 95
Cthon: Not sure
Nabu: 120
Mordru: 150
Monarch: 85
Jenny Quantum: 50
Cyttorak: 105
No way Monarch is less powerful than Odin. Cyttorak is featless.

Neron and Trigon are definitely more powerful than Odin.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by abhilegend
Cyttorak is featless.

His classic pink costume puts him on par with Pink Shirt Vegeta, you fool!!!!!

abhilegend
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
His classic pink costume puts him on par with Pink Shirt Vegeta, you fool!!!!!
Again good point.

mmm

Endless Mike
Well I was going by implied power mostly.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well I was going by implied power mostly.
How's Monarch/Neron/Trigon less powerful than Odin.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by abhilegend
How's Monarch/Neron/Trigon less powerful than Odin.
Not sure about Neron. From what I can recall aside from his hell has infinite realities, he didn't do much. I can't say I'm familiar with Neron though

Endless Mike
Originally posted by abhilegend
How's Monarch/Neron/Trigon less powerful than Odin.

I was basing Monarch on the Captain Atom version seen in Countdown. I don't see Odin losing to SBP.

Neron seems to job a lot, although I admit I'm not familiar with his best feats.

I know that Trigon destroyed his home planet at age 6 and conquered his home dimension, but IIRC he was considered a punk compared to GDS Darkseid.

Stoic
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Only Surtur and Cyttorak are less powerful in the list.

Trigon is a beast compared to Odin. Most of these guys are well above Odin unless Asgardian cosmology is larger than it appears to be? Odin after all shook the very cosmos of his native reality.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I was basing Monarch on the Captain Atom version seen in Countdown. I don't see Odin losing to SBP.


Well, SBP did beat Darkest Knight, but he also has some low showings( Teen Titans and possibly the combined lightning power of Shazam and Black Adam) and he not always operates at the level that can beat someone who is multiversal in power.

Granted, Black Adam seemingly get a push in power levels recently, based on his lightning could ko the Pariah who is more powerful than true Darkseid or Empty Hand. So the latter possibly isn't a low showing

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Well, SBP did beat Darkest Knight,
What? He failed. Wonder Woman defeated him.

https://i.imgur.com/4KNH4Cwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/gMgAgiCm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/BYqLrjSm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/BpIVK3em.jpg

- Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Secret Origin

https://i.imgur.com/lrDdOFWm.jpg

- Dark Nights: Death-Metal #7

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
What?

https://i.imgur.com/4KNH4Cwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/gMgAgiCm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/BYqLrjSm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/BpIVK3em.jpg

- Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Secret Origin

Hmm, yeah, right before the scans you posted, SBP beats Darkest Knight makes DK try to convince SBP to join him
https://ibb.co/3FRn0f4
https://ibb.co/26FJYGR
https://ibb.co/qgRMkGC
https://ibb.co/rsHknZG
https://ibb.co/Q85L2kn
https://ibb.co/k0G78hr
https://ibb.co/G3Kbt8t
https://ibb.co/MMyZDgR


It actually spelled out in the comic
https://i.ibb.co/gmSg8JY/1.jpg

And the comic also emphasizes/implies they are more or less at the same level
https://i.ibb.co/D4KYzHD/2.jpg

Astner
Originally posted by abhilegend
Neron and Trigon are definitely more powerful than Odin.
Wasn't Trigon killed by Bizarro?

https://i.imgur.com/C3K4yw4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0upG4VRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/VMHexRtm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/PeJqzJWm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/v5qg7Gwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/DLrbljtm.jpg

- Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #46

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Hmm, yeah, right before the scans you posted, SBP beats Darkest Knight makes DK try to convince SBP to join him
https://ibb.co/3FRn0f4
https://ibb.co/26FJYGR
https://ibb.co/qgRMkGC
https://ibb.co/rsHknZG
https://ibb.co/Q85L2kn
https://ibb.co/k0G78hr
https://ibb.co/G3Kbt8t
https://ibb.co/MMyZDgR


It actually spelled out in the comic

And the comic also emphasizes/implies they are more or less at the same level
What exactly is Superboy Prime's bluster supposed to prove? They only fought once. Superboy Prime didn't survive, Batman Who Laughs did.

Where they peers? Maybe. But Superboy Prime lost that fight.

carver9
Originally posted by Astner
Wasn't Trigon killed by Bizarro?

https://i.imgur.com/C3K4yw4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0upG4VRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/VMHexRtm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/PeJqzJWm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/v5qg7Gwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/DLrbljtm.jpg

- Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #46

I was going to reference this. Got defeated by AND killed by a Herald. Laughable.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
What exactly is Superboy Prime's bluster supposed to prove? They only fought once. Superboy Prime didn't survive, Batman Who Laughs did.

Where they peers? Maybe. But Superboy Prime lost that fight.
If there is only SBP's bluster, you maybe have a point. But there are also the fact

1) SBP could take DK's power at that moment, unless you want to argue DK deliberately wanted SBP to take his power?

2) After SBP put DK down, DK admitted both of them can't destroy each other and trying to bargain with SBP. And when SBP refused DK's offer, DK couldn't do anything but watch SBP punch him, destroying his dark worlds/realities. Again, unless if you want to argue DK deliberately wanted SBP to destroy his dark worlds, I don't see this isn't a proof that DK is under disadvantage/passive position here

Thus, we have 3 references for the fight between SBP and DK. 1) SBP's own words, I admit, it is not good enough. but plus 2,3? Both indicate SBP has the upper hand here.

Also, I don't think who survived( which is also arguable) at the end == who is a winner in a fight

lawest9
Originally posted by carver9
Mordru is the only one that "probably" matches Odin, the rest falls below.

MrMind
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I was basing Monarch on the Captain Atom version seen in Countdown. I don't see Odin losing to SBP.

Neron seems to job a lot, although I admit I'm not familiar with his best feats.

I know that Trigon destroyed his home planet at age 6 and conquered his home dimension, but IIRC he was considered a punk compared to GDS Darkseid.

This is a post straight out of 2012

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
I was going to reference this. Got defeated by AND killed by a Herald. Laughable.

Yet, when Batman fights WW it doesn't mean she's street level. Curious.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Astner
Wasn't Trigon killed by Bizarro?

https://i.imgur.com/C3K4yw4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0upG4VRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/VMHexRtm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/PeJqzJWm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/v5qg7Gwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/DLrbljtm.jpg

- Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #46
Wasn't Odin enslaved by space ants?

carver9
How powerful were those space ants?

MrMind
Each ant is 10 times stronger than world breaker hulk

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
How powerful were those space ants?

Irrelevant.

For you to have a point, they have to be skyfather and above. Your knee jerk reaction to me and my post, where you try to argue just because it's me, is wrong.

You're basically saying that Odin has no low showings whatsoever. Is that really so?
Trigon having a low showing, against Bizarro (so not quite THAT low), should then be applied to both sides. Does Odin have low showings? I bet they're lower than losing to Bizarro.

carver9
So I ask again, how powerful were the ants. Aren't you the same person that mentioned we base things off the showings that are available?. How powerful are the ants, hypocrite?

Sin I AM
Trigon getting low balled is sacrilege

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
So I ask again, how powerful were the ants. Aren't you the same person that mentioned we base things off the showings that are available?. How powerful are the ants, hypocrite?

They weren't that powerful. Hogun and Fandral were beating them. Asgardians (normal ones) were killing them with their normal weapons (swords).

I did not insult you. Please refrain from name-calling from now on, or be reported. Thanks.

DarkSaint85
Carver, I educated you on this topic six years ago.

Originally posted by carver9
Can someone explain to me how powerful those space ants were? It's like using Konvikt as a low showing for Superman posting those scans as evidence of low balling imo. I thought we gauge characters based off their showings? Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They were falling and dying to normal Asgardian weaponry. As it says in the scan :-)
Exact same conversation. This is why I get bored of you.

carver9
Lmmfao... so you've been name calling me for years but I say hypocrite and you want to report me? Like, wtf. That was the funniest sentence I've read in my life.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I was basing Monarch on the Captain Atom version seen in Countdown. I don't see Odin losing to SBP.

SBP defeated Darkest Knight lol. Odin would get his teeth punched in.

OK?

That Darkseid was considered equal to Time Trapper and Infinite Man. Odin is nothing at that level lol.

DarkSaint85
Like I said, I'm stopping. Since you've always said it doesn't affect you in the slightest, you should find it easy to stop too

Anyway, back on topic. The ants weren't that powerful, as I said six years ago.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
Wasn't Trigon killed by Bizarro?

https://i.imgur.com/C3K4yw4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0upG4VRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/VMHexRtm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/PeJqzJWm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/v5qg7Gwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/DLrbljtm.jpg

- Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #46
Odin lost to space ants with lasers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Were they? At least they didn't lose to space ants.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GGDnF-cMNZM/Vnpmem1OKzI/AAAAAAAASEE/_3ci4OxV5Nc/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-76Vl54mFb4w/VnpmfXKTLvI/AAAAAAAASEE/VcchyUF2FiM/s1600-Ic42/RCO015.jpg.

Thor 211

srug

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
What exactly is Superboy Prime's bluster supposed to prove? They only fought once. Superboy Prime didn't survive, Batman Who Laughs did.

Where they peers? Maybe. But Superboy Prime lost that fight.
How's it bluster when TDK himself said he can't beat Prime?

Astner
Originally posted by abhilegend
How's it bluster when TDK himself said he can't beat Prime?
Because the claim wasn't "Superboy Prime was around Batman Who Laugh's power level," the claims was "Superboy Prime beat Batman Who Laughs."

I seriously don't get this. Why are you so adamant in defending objectively inaccurate claims. You've read the comic, you know Superboy Prime died, you know it took Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman to defeat Batman Who Laughs.

And the worst part is, you had no obligation to defend the claim because you weren't the one making it.

Rather than "taking a side" and defending whatever nonsense is purported by it, try making a case for what you actually think and defend those arguments. Because debates aren't determined by consensus agreement. If over half of the forum was convinced that 1 + 1 = 3, the majority would simply be wrong.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
Because the claim wasn't "Superboy Prime was around Batman Who Laugh's power level," the claims was "Superboy Prime beat Batman Who Laughs."

I seriously don't get this. Why are you so adamant in defending objectively inaccurate claims. You've read the comic, you know Superboy Prime died, you know it took Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman to defeat Batman Who Laughs.

And the worst part is, you had no obligation to defend the claim because you weren't the one making it.

Rather than "taking a side" and defending whatever nonsense is purported by it, try making a case for what you actually think and defend those arguments. Because debates aren't determined by consensus agreement. If over half of the forum was convinced that 1 + 1 = 3, the majority would simply be wrong.

Ummmm...What?Abhi basically said what I said

This is what Abhi said
Originally posted by abhilegend
How's it bluster when TDK himself said he can't beat Prime?

Then what is SBP's "bluster"(which I and Abhi both don't consider it is a bluster due to the reasons I listed above and Abhi also mentioned DK admitted he can't defeat SBP, right after SBP brought him under his knees)

https://i.ibb.co/gmSg8JY/1.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
Because the claim wasn't "Superboy Prime was around Batman Who Laugh's power level," the claims was "Superboy Prime beat Batman Who Laughs."

I seriously don't get this. Why are you so adamant in defending objectively inaccurate claims. You've read the comic, you know Superboy Prime died, you know it took Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman to defeat Batman Who Laughs.

And the worst part is, you had no obligation to defend the claim because you weren't the one making it.

Rather than "taking a side" and defending whatever nonsense is purported by it, try making a case for what you actually think and defend those arguments. Because debates aren't determined by consensus agreement. If over half of the forum was convinced that 1 + 1 = 3, the majority would simply be wrong.
Prime had beaten TDK to the ground and had him on his mercy to the point TDK was begging for a truce. How's that not a beating?

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Then what is SBP's "bluster"(which I and Abhi both don't consider it is a bluster due to the reasons I listed above and Abhi also mentioned DK admitted he can't defeat SBP, right after SBP brought him under his knees)
It was bluster, even in the same panel you have his thoughts expressed in the narration "I...I think I've won."

But that doesn't matter because what happened was that Superboy Prime died in that fight and Batman Who Laughs survived the fight, i.e. Batman Who Laughed defeated Superboy Prime, and this outcome is referenced in a subsequent story like I showed.

The only way you can justify your claim is to point to a dictionary and argue that "beat" doesn't necessarily have to mean "defeat." But that's disingenious because when you say that one character beat another it's understood that you meant that said character defeated the other character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime had beaten TDK to the ground and had him on his mercy to the point TDK was begging for a truce. How's that not a beating?
It's only a "beating" by semantic technicality.

But making misleading insinuations and falling back on dictionary definitions to justify the way you expressed a claim means that you're not so much interested in establishing what actually happened, but rather to trick users unfamiliar with the story into believing something that didn't happen.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
It was bluster, even in the same panel you have his thoughts expressed in the narration "I...I think I've won."



So your reasoning is SBP said what he thought, I.E, he thought he defeated him. How does it justify your "bluster" stance?

Besides, there are other facts indicate SBP's words( both what he said and he thought) are true. Like I and Abhi pointed out, he had him on his mercy.

1) he could take DK's power at that moment.
2) DK himself admitted he couldn't beat SBP and begged for truce, then when SBP refused, DK could do nothing but wacthed SBP punch him, destroying his dark worlds


Originally posted by Astner
But that doesn't matter because what happened was that Superboy Prime died in that fight and Batman Who Laughs survived the fight, i.e. Batman Who Laughed defeated Superboy Prime, and this outcome is referenced in a subsequent story like I showed.

The only way you can justify your claim is to point to a dictionary and argue that "beat" doesn't necessarily have to mean "defeat." But that's disingenious because when you say that one character beat another it's understood that you meant that said character defeated the other character.

Wait, what? You are the guy who is making beat/defeat == survive argument. And you call me disingenuous.

If Tyson beats the shit out of another boxer to a point not just brings the boxer to his knees, but also makes him call for a truce. Tyson later dies from a heartattack or something

Then yes, I would call this Tyson defeats said boxer. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp here?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by abhilegend
Odin lost to space ants with lasers.



Thor 211

srug

Thor gets abducted a lot.

Remember the Dark Gods from Jurgens' run?

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
beat/defeat
Okay, so you agree that beat means defeat.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
If Tyson beats the shit out of another boxer to a point not just brings the boxer to his knees, but also makes him call for a truce. Tyson later dies from a heartattack or something

Then yes, I would call this Tyson defeats said boxer. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp here?
Your example implies that the fight ended at some point in the middle. It didn't. The truce Batman Who Laughs offered was based on the premise that they could not destroy one another. Your example further implies that Superboy Prime died due to unrelated causes. He didn't. He died from the impact or energies that were released when he punched Batman Who Laughs.

To summerize the event: Superboy Prime landed a few good hits, then Batman Who Laugh proposed a truce on the premise that they could not defeat one another, Superboy Prime rejected the offer, and then hit him once more and died from the impact.

So no, Superboy Prime did not defeat Batman Who Laughs.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
Okay, so you agree that beat means defeat.


Your example implies that the fight ended at some point in the middle. It didn't.
Huh? Yes, it did end in the middle, which is when Prime brought DK to the ground. Unless you want to argue they were still fighting at that point...despite, both of them didn't fight each other

Originally posted by Astner
The truce Batman Who Laughs offered was based on the premise that they could not destroy one another. Your example further implies that Superboy Prime died due to unrelated causes. He didn't. He died from punching Batman Who Laughs.

To summerize the event: Superboy Prime landed a few good hits, then Batman Who Laugh proposed a truce on the premise that they could not defeat one another, Superboy Prime rejected the offer, and then hit him once more and died from the impact a consequence.

If anyone won this fight it was Batman Who Laughs.


Ok, and? the facts still remain, Prime had DK at his mercy, DK admitted he couldn't destroy Prime, then begged for truce. Unless you want to argue DK wanted to help SBP out of kindness? Right after SBP brought him to the ground? And when SBP refused, DK wanted his dark worlds to be destroyed so he let SBP do that?

The best you can argue is DK probably was more durable than SBP, but he clearly can't defeat SBP in a direct fight/SBP defeats him in a direct fight

MrMind
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver, I educated you on this topic six years ago.


Exact same conversation. This is why I get bored of you.

even donkey gets smarter in this span of times

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Ok, and? the facts still remain, Prime had DK at his mercy, DK admitted he couldn't destroy Prime, then begged for truce.
Now you're selectively omitting information to further your argument. Batman Who Laughed offered the truce on the premise that they couldn't destroy one another.

In other words, Batman Who Laugh couldn't destoy Superboy Prime, and Superboy Prime couldn't destroy Batman Who Laughs.

And let's think about this for a moment, if Superboy Prime had won then why would Batman Who Laughs be in a position to offer a truce? Because a truce is only meaningful if it's made from a position of power.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The best you can argue is DK probably was more durable than SBP, but he clearly can't defeat SBP in a direct fight/SBP defeats him in a direct fight
I don't have to argue anything.

I can simply point to the fact that Superboy Prime destroyed himself in a botched attempt to destroy Batman Who Laughs.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
Now you're selectively omitting information to further your argument. Batman Who Laughed offered the truce on the premise that they couldn't destroy one another.

In other words, Batman Who Laugh couldn't destoy Superboy Prime, and Superboy Prime couldn't destroy Batman Who Laughs.

So you admitted is DK himself made the statement/acknowledged both of them at least at the same power levels, after SBP brougt him to the ground.

The only way I see you can argue is DK probably slightly overestimated Prime, but he still acknowledged SBP was his equal after Prime gained the upper hand

Originally posted by Astner
And let's think about this for a moment, if Superboy Prime had won then why would Batman Who Laughs be in a position to offer a truce? Because a truce is only meaningful if it's made from a position of power.


That is your argument, seriously? I wonder when did SBP have the power to create worlds/realities, because this is the offer DK gave for the truce, he had the abilities to create worlds/realities, which SBP doesn't have. IOW, he could give what SBP wanted

That doesn't mean SBP didn't beat the shit out of him

Originally posted by Astner
I can simply point to the fact that Superboy Prime destroyed himself in a botched attempt to destroy Batman Who Laughs.

That's the literal conclusion of the battle.

Which again, doesn't negative anything I said.

1) DK acknowledged both of them at least at the same power levels, after SBP brougt him to the ground

2) SBP could take DK's power at the moment when DK was brought at his knees

3) When Prime refused, DK couldn't do shit but watched Prime punch him and destroy his dark worlds

4) All of these facts support the statements Prime made, he defeated DK in a direct fight

MrMind
Originally posted by Astner
Now you're selectively omitting information to further your argument. Batman Who Laughed offered the truce on the premise that they couldn't destroy one another.

In other words, Batman Who Laugh couldn't destoy Superboy Prime, and Superboy Prime couldn't destroy Batman Who Laughs.

And let's think about this for a moment, if Superboy Prime had won then why would Batman Who Laughs be in a position to offer a truce? Because a truce is only meaningful if it's made from a position of power.


I don't have to argue anything.

I can simply point to the fact that Superboy Prime destroyed himself in a botched attempt to destroy Batman Who Laughs.

you need to stop quoting only a portion of other posters' arguments, if you don't have the energy to debate on a full scale you can always concede.

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So you admitted is DK himself made the statement/acknowledged both of them at least at the same power levels,
No I don't, because that's not what was said. What was said was that they couldn't destroy one another. You don't have to infer that they had to be equally powerful for that to be the case. Nor is it a point that matters.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The only way I see you can argue is DK probably slightly overestimated Prime, but he still acknowledged SBP was his equal after Prime gained the upper hand
Again, we're not debating whether they're equally powerful or not, we're arguing whether or not Superboy Prime defeated Batman Who Laughs in this specific comic.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
That doesn't mean SBP didn't beat the shit out of him
We're specifically arguing whether or not he defeated Batman Who Laughs.

And your entire basis for that argument is that Superboy Prime said "Yeah. I beat your sorry ass."

As far as this debate is concerned there's nothing more to your argument than this.

Furthermore, you conventiently ignore the thought expressed in the narration box, "I...I think I've won," which implies that he--in fact--did not know if he had won.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Which again, doesn't negative anything I said.

1) DK acknowledged both of them at least at the same power levels, after SBP brougt him to the ground

2) SBP could take DK's power at the moment when DK was brought at his knees

3) When Prime refused, DK couldn't do shit but watched Prime punch him and destroy his dark worlds

4) All of these facts support the statements Prime made, he defeated DK in a direct fight That's not what was said.
I don't remember this. Motivate it.
You have a bad tendency to conflate interpretation with fact. You might want to work on that.
No, not a single one of them do. Even if we assume that Superboy Prime could defeat Batman Who Laughs, that doesn't prove that he did. When you say "Superman Prime defeated Batman Who Laughs," you're asserting that this happened in the story, not that it could've happened.
Originally posted by MrMind
you need to stop quoting only a portion of other posters' arguments, if you don't have the energy to debate on a full scale you can always concede.
I only quote the portions of replies that carry a meaningful claim or argument that I disagree with.

There's no point in bloating out the replies by addressing repeated arguments, analogies, insults, or unrelated opinion pieces.

qwertyuiop1998
Edit

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
No I don't, because that's not what was said. What was said was that they couldn't destroy one another. You don't have to infer that they had to be equally powerful for that to be the case. Nor is it a point that matters.


Then what do you think prevent DK from destroying SBP, right after Prime went toe-to-toe with DK and brought him to the ground

Originally posted by Astner
Again, we're not debating whether they're equally powerful or not, we're arguing whether or not Superboy Prime defeated Batman Who Laughs in this specific comic.

We're specifically arguing whether or not he defeated Batman Who Laughs.

And your entire basis for that argument is that Superboy Prime said "Yeah. I beat your sorry ass."

As far as this debate is concerned there's nothing more to your argument than this.

Furthermore, you conventiently ignore the thought expressed in the narration box, "I...I think I've won," which implies that he--in fact--did not know if he had won.

WTF, did you ever read the posts I wrote before?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
If there is only SBP's bluster, you maybe have a point. But there are also the fact

1) SBP could take DK's power at that moment, unless you want to argue DK deliberately wanted SBP to take his power?

2) After SBP put DK down, DK admitted both of them can't destroy each other and trying to bargain with SBP. And when SBP refused DK's offer, DK couldn't do anything but watch SBP punch him, destroying his dark worlds/realities. Again, unless if you want to argue DK deliberately wanted SBP to destroy his dark worlds, I don't see this isn't a proof that DK is under disadvantage/passive position here

Thus, we have 3 references for the fight between SBP and DK. 1) SBP's own words, I admit, it is not good enough. but plus 2,3? Both indicate SBP has the upper hand here.

Also, I don't think who survived( which is also arguable) at the end == who is a winner in a fight


Originally posted by Astner

That's not what was said.
I don't remember this. Motivate it.
You have a bad tendency to conflate interpretation with fact. You might want to work on that.
No, not a single one of them do. Even if we assume that Superboy Prime could defeat Batman Who Laughs, that doesn't prove that he did. When you say "Superman Prime defeated Batman Who Laughs," you're asserting that this happened in the story, not that it could've happened.

1. See above
2. It literally in the scan where SBP thought he defeated DK:https://ibb.co/k0G78hr
3. What do you think the meaning of DK said "no" in your own scan? He was happy about SBP was trying to punch him am I right?
https://i.imgur.com/4KNH4Cw.jpeg
https://i.ibb.co/ZfMcrLp/3.jpg
4. Well, since we covered "not the single one of them do" point, which in turn, again, like I said, all of them support SBP's statements. So if you want the comic's own words, the comic spelled out to you who won the fight

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner

I only quote the portions of replies that carry a meaningful claim or argument that I disagree with.

There's no point in bloating out the replies by addressing repeated arguments, analogies, insults, or unrelated opinion pieces.

Then maybe you should read the arguments instead of putting your own imaginary words to other people's posts smile

Because it seems like you didn't read my posts or even the scan you posted

I mean, how could you read so bad that interpret the opposite of my words
Originally posted by Astner

And your entire basis for that argument is that Superboy Prime said "Yeah. I beat your sorry ass."

As far as this debate is concerned there's nothing more to your argument than this.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

Thus, we have 3 references for the fight between SBP and DK. 1) SBP's own words, I admit, it is not good enough. but plus 2,3? Both indicate SBP has the upper hand here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner


It's only a "beating" by semantic technicality.

So, it was a beating. Good.

WTF are you talking about, Jesse?

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Then what do you think prevent DK from destroying SBP, right after Prime went toe-to-toe with DK and brought him to the ground
Looking back at the scene, the reason given by Batman Who Laughs is that he didn't want to expend the energy it would take to kill Superboy Prime.

https://i.imgur.com/Cmb70tk.png

And this makes sense when you consider the fact that the energy expelled from from the impact ended up killing Superboy Prime.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
WTF, did you ever read the posts I wrote before?
Whether or not Superboy Prime could've defeated Batman Who Laughs is completely irrelevant, because the argument is about whether or not he did. Arguing what Superboy Prime could've done is completely irrelevant because it didn't happen.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
1. See above
2. It literally in the scan where SBP thought he defeated DK:https://ibb.co/k0G78hr
3. What do you think the meaning of DK said "no" in your own scan? He was happy about SBP was trying to punch him am I right?
https://i.imgur.com/4KNH4Cw.jpeg
4. Well, since we covered "not the single one of them do" point, which in turn, again, like I said, all of them support SBP's statements. So if you want the comic's own words, the comic spelled out to you who won the fight -
Then why it didn't happen. At the very least you've gone from "SBP defeated DK" to "SBP thought he defeated DK," which is progress.
Why would it matter whether he was happy, hurt, or whatever? We're specifically talking about whether or not he was defeated.
Explain to me why you think these references amount to Superboy Prime defeating Batman Who Laughs.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Then maybe you should read the arguments instead of putting your own imaginary words to other people's posts smile

Because it seems like you didn't read my posts or even the scan you posted

I mean, how could you read so bad that interpret the opposite of my words
No, I've read it, it's just that these pieces of evidence support don't support your claim. And if you still think they do, then explain why you think it does.

DarkSaint85
Is it THAT irrelevant, though?

The central point here was that SBP was comparable to DK. The fact that he COULD'VE beaten him, means they're analogous.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
Looking back at the scene, the reason given by Batman Who Laughs is that he didn't want to expend the energy it would take to kill Superboy Prime.

https://i.imgur.com/Cmb70tk.png

And this makes sense when you consider the fact that the energy expelled from from the impact ended up killing Superboy Prime.

The cropped scan you posted followed by the scene that Prime despised the idea DK could kill him and overpowered DK
https://ibb.co/Q85L2kn

And then DK's attitude to Prime from telling him stand aside to wanting him to join his dark army

https://ibb.co/G3Kbt8t
https://ibb.co/MMyZDgR

So if you want to extrapolate, then I could also make the argument that DK underestimated Prime and after acknowledging how powerful Prime was, he was trying to lure Prime to join him.

Originally posted by Astner
Whether or not Superboy Prime could've defeated Batman Who Laughs is completely irrelevant, because the argument is about whether or not he did. Arguing what Superboy Prime could've done is completely irrelevant because it didn't happen.


But your argument is DK survived Prime's punch, which: 1) Survive =//= win, 2) this happened after the fight between Prime and DK/ They didn't even fight each other. So if you want to go technically, the only fight happened in that comic is Prime overpowered DK and brought him to the ground. I.E, Prime beat DK

Originally posted by Astner
-
Then why it didn't happen. At the very least you've gone from "SBP defeated DK" to "SBP thought he defeated DK," which is progress.
Why would it matter whether he was happy, hurt, or whatever? We're specifically talking about whether or not he was defeated.
Explain to me why you think these references amount to Superboy Prime defeating Batman Who Laughs.

2. Because Krypton stopped Prime from doing so, he redeemed Prime in that instant?

https://ibb.co/k0G78hr
https://ibb.co/G3Kbt8t

And what made you think I'm conceding? It literally was what I previously said
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So your reasoning is SBP said what he thought, I.E, he thought he defeated him. How does it justify your "bluster" stance?

Besides, there are other facts indicate SBP's words( both what he said and he thought) are true. Like I and Abhi pointed out, he had him on his mercy.

1) he could take DK's power at that moment.
2) DK himself admitted he couldn't beat SBP and begged for truce, then when SBP refused, DK could do nothing but wacthed SBP punch him, destroying his dark worlds



3. Maybe because it shows DK was at the mercy of Prime/DK was at disadvantage here? which supports the statements Prime made?

4. See above

Originally posted by Astner

No, I've read it, it's just that these pieces of evidence support don't support your claim. And if you still think they do, then explain why you think it does.
Not your posts indicate

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
Looking back at the scene, the reason given by Batman Who Laughs is that he didn't want to expend the energy it would take to kill Superboy Prime.

https://i.imgur.com/Cmb70tk.png

And this makes sense when you consider the fact that the energy expelled from from the impact ended up killing Superboy Prime.


Whether or not Superboy Prime could've defeated Batman Who Laughs is completely irrelevant, because the argument is about whether or not he did. Arguing what Superboy Prime could've done is completely irrelevant because it didn't happen.

-
Then why it didn't happen. At the very least you've gone from "SBP defeated DK" to "SBP thought he defeated DK," which is progress.
Why would it matter whether he was happy, hurt, or whatever? We're specifically talking about whether or not he was defeated.
Explain to me why you think these references amount to Superboy Prime defeating Batman Who Laughs.

No, I've read it, it's just that these pieces of evidence support don't support your claim. And if you still think they do, then explain why you think it does.
You think this is 2008 when marvel fanboys could crop a scan out of context and get away with it?

Astner
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The central point here was that SBP was comparable to DK. The fact that he COULD'VE beaten him, means they're analogous.
No, it spefically wasn't.

Not once did I suggest that they couldn't be peers.

My argument was specifically directed at the claim "Superboy Prime beat Darkest Knight," in which qwertyuiop1998 conceeded that meant that Superboy Prime had defeated Batman Who Laughs.

This is objetively wrong.

You can interpret it the other way around because Superboy Prime did die in that fight, but the reverse interpretation is not justified under any reasonable premises.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
No, it spefically wasn't.

Not once did I suggest that they couldn't be peers.

My argument was specifically directed at the claim "Superboy Prime beat Darkest Knight," in which qwertyuiop1998 conceeded that meant that Superboy Prime had defeated Batman Who Laughs.

This is objetively wrong.

You can interpret it the other way around because Superboy Prime did die in that fight, but the reverse interpretation is not justified under any reasonable premises.
How can you interpret in other way? Did TDK contribute anyway in killing Prime (Mind you, he wasn't actually dead, just transported to Earth prime)?

This is simply splitting hair.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner



It's only a "beating" by semantic technicality.



Not to mention, he already agreed that it's a beating, albeit technically.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner

This is objetively wrong.

You can interpret it the other way around because Superboy Prime did die in that fight, but the reverse interpretation is not justified under any reasonable premises.
Astner:
https://i.ibb.co/Vg3bQbV/4.jpg

Astner
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The cropped scan you posted followed by the scene that Prime despised the idea DK could kill him and overpowered DK
https://ibb.co/Q85L2kn

And then DK's attitude to Prime from telling him stand aside to wanting him to join his dark army

https://ibb.co/G3Kbt8t
https://ibb.co/MMyZDgR

So if you want to extrapolate, then I could also make the argument that DK underestimated Prime and after acknowledging how powerful Prime was, he was trying to lure Prime to join him.
We don't have to extapolate in the slightest. This was the explanation Batman Who Laughs provided, whether you want to accept it or not doesn't matter. It's not contradicted in the story.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But your argument is DK survived Prime's punch, which: 1) Survive =//= win,
Surviving while your opponent doesn't is certainly a win condition for a death match.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
2) this happened after the fight between Prime and DK/ They didn't even fight each other. So if you want to go technically, the only fight happened in that comic is Prime overpowered DK and brought him to the ground. I.E, Prime beat DK
Superboy Prime dying from the impact of his own punch can certainly be classified as a defeat. Taking a few punches on the other hand is not in itself enough to considered a defeat.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And what made you think I'm conceding? It literally was what I previously said
It's a concession because you changed your statement from "SBP defeated DK" to "SBP thought he defeated DK."

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
3. Maybe because it shows DK was at the mercy of Prime/DK was at disadvantage here? which supports the statements Prime made?
This is your interpretation of what happened, not what actually happened. But even if it was the case it does not change the fact that Superboy Prime did not defeat Batman Who Laughs.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How can you interpret in other way? Did TDK contribute anyway in killing Prime (Mind you, he wasn't actually dead, just transported to Earth prime)?
He died in the book and put down the comic on Prime Earth. I'm not sure how else you'd interpret it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner


He died in the book and put down the comic on Prime Earth. I'm not sure how else you'd interpret it.

If someone beat the shit out of you and then go punch a moving car and dies, did you beat him?

Wut? He was transported back to Prime Earth.

Astner
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention, he already agreed that it's a beating, albeit technically.
Yes, but that was never in contention.

qwertyuiop1998 conceded that he meant that Superboy Prime defeated Batman Who Laughs, and he was the one making the claim.

This debates is technically settled. All I have to do to "win" is to list the conditions for defeat in a death match: Death.
Incapacitation.
Concession of defeat. And ask by which of these conditions Batman Who Laugh was defeated.

Batman Who Laughs didn't die, wasn't incapacitated, and didn't concede defeat. So unless I've missed a condition in the list it definitively proves that he wasn't defeated.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
Yes, but that was never in contention.

Yet, here you are contentioning the shit out of it.

You're being arguing just for arguing's sake. Prime beat TDK down and had him on his mercy. That he chose to destroy the alternate multiverse TDK created and sacrifice himself has nothing to do with the fight.

Anyway Odin wouldn't even register to TDK.

zopzop
Originally posted by Astner
Wasn't Trigon killed by Bizarro?

https://i.imgur.com/C3K4yw4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0upG4VRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/VMHexRtm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/PeJqzJWm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/v5qg7Gwm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/DLrbljtm.jpg

- Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #46
That's Bizarro's current look?! Yummy smile

Astner
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yet, here you are contentioning the shit out of it.
Why would I have to contend it? I wasn't the one making the argument, so whatever meaning I choose project upon it doesn't matter.

But qwertyuiop1998 already conceded that he used "beat" as a synonym for "defeat," meaning that he's wrong for making it, and that you are wrong for defending it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're being arguing just for arguing's sake.
Yes, recreational debating is the only reason you'd post on a versus forum. If you don't enjoy arguing then you're wasting your time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime beat TDK down and had him on his mercy.
He didn't defeat him though, did he?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That he chose to destroy the alternate multiverse TDK created and sacrifice himself has nothing to do with the fight.
No, what happened was that he destroyed some of he Dark Universes that Batman Who Laughed drew his power from.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway Odin wouldn't even register to TDK.
Probably not.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Astner
We don't have to extapolate in the slightest. This was the explanation Batman Who Laughs provided, whether you want to accept it or not doesn't matter. It's not contradicted in the story.


Surviving while your opponent doesn't is certainly a win condition for a death match.


Superboy Prime dying from the impact of his own punch can certainly be classified as a defeat. Taking a few punches on the other hand is not in itself enough to considered a defeat.


It's a concession because you changed your statement from "SBP defeated DK" to "SBP thought he defeated DK."


This is your interpretation of what happened, not what actually happened. But even if it was the case it does not change the fact that Superboy Prime did not defeat Batman Who Laughs.


He died in the book and put down the comic on Prime Earth. I'm not sure how else you'd interpret it.
What the ****? In order to make your theory to work, DK needed to allow SBP to beat him down to a point that he could take the power from him
So by your logic, DK didn't want to use more power to engage SBP while he was perfectly fine about his power being taken by Prime

Not after the opponent just beat you to a point you need to beg for a truce

Again, what are you talking about? No, I didn't change my statement, I literally repeat why SBP's thought/word could be considered as a proof/not a bluster.

So you are suggesting DK deliberately wanted his dark worlds to be destroyed?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Astner
Why would I have to contend it? I wasn't the one making the argument, so whatever meaning I choose project upon it doesn't matter.

What kind of nonsense is this?

Well, he had him on his mercy as you accepted, how's it not a defeat?

No, he destroyed it entirely. Nothing probably about it.

MrMind
Originally posted by carver9
I was going to reference this. Got defeated by AND killed by a Herald. Laughable.

imagine typing this while odin was getting stabbed by random dark elf

StiltmanFTW
Space Ants!

lawest9
Originally posted by carver9
Mordru is the only one that "probably" matches Odin, the rest falls below.

MrMind
adventure of lawest9 and carver9 would be a very good road trip movie

better than any of the jay and silent bob for sure

StiltmanFTW
Lawrence would grab Derrick by his disco stick in the very first scene.

MrMind
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lawrence would grab Derrick by his disco stick in the very first scene.

no dinner no flower no date? just straight to the point huh

lawest9
Originally posted by MrMind
adventure of lawest9 and carver9 would be a very good road trip movie

better than any of the jay and silent bob for sure Can't take going against your opinion huh?

StiltmanFTW
I think he is hitting on you, Mind.

ODG
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Space Ants! So what is it you were intending to promote bumping this thread?

MrMind
stilt didn't bump this i did

to drive some traffic, there's barely any discussion going on last couple days

ODG
^ Ok, so who do you want to debate?

Maybe there is a lack of posters but some of us are here now.

MrMind
we can do mordru vs odin for sure

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by MrMind
stilt didn't bump this i did

ODG is drunk again and attempting to backseat mod laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by MrMind
we can do mordru vs odin for sure

Do Mordru vs. Odinbuster Space Ants thumb up

ODG
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
ODG is drunk again and attempting to backseat mod laughing out loud I am surely drunk.

By all means, make your case.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They are all over 9000.

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