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Force sabers all out

Originally posted by carthage
Force savers all out

Can you not edit topics anymore??

Force: I can see Cal taking this, just barely. His Force slow is a pretty powerful, and is a relatively unique ability. In terms of raw tk, the two are pretty close, though I think the GI has a slight edge. His successful pinning of Kanan in their penultimate duel, and his greater aggressive use of combat tk just impress me more than Cal pushing the 9th Sister after slashing her back, or pushing Trilla after catching her off-guard with trakata techniques.

Lightsaber: The Grand Inquisitor, hands down. He's been compared to the likes of Asajj Ventress and Darth Maul (Filoni compared the best of the Inquisitors to Asajj, saying Ventress would be just a little bit stronger. Iirc, Hidalgo said something to the effect that the Grand Inquisitor can't normally fight on the level of Maul, but his spinning lightsaber lets him "cheat" to fight on that level). Cal's victories over Malicos and Trilla were both impressive in their own rights, but Malicos is rather mid in terms of lightsaber combat. And Trilla is outright below the Grand Inquisitor.


All out, I see the Grand Inquisitor taking it. He'd pick apart Cal's fighting style with his greater academic knowledge, and while Cal is a more diverse Force wielder, the GI would just be far more aggressive with the powers at his disposal. Powerful, ragdolling Force pushes (which have repeatedly taken Kanan out for minutes at a time) mixed with lethal lightsaber throws just make him too deadly of a threat for Cal, as we've seen him in the cutscenes, to overcome.

Force: GI
Saber: either way
All out: GI after a difficult fight

Originally posted by Underachiever59
Iirc, Hidalgo said something to the effect that the Grand Inquisitor can't normally fight on the level of Maul, but his spinning lightsaber lets him "cheat" to fight on that level).


Well hes wrong. GI ended up meeting his match with Rebels S1 finale Kanan, who was absolutely never on Maul or Ahsokas level.


As for Cal, his progression through the game was Damn impressive. And this was 10 years before Kanan manages to beat GI. So though he might not be there yet, I have no doubt he will easily surpass GI soon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well hes wrong. GI ended up meeting his match with Rebels S1 finale Kanan, who was absolutely never on Maul or Ahsokas level.

Rebels S1 Finale Kanan was fighting better than his performances at any point in S2 due to believing he had "nothing to lose" and letting himself give entirely into the Force. The only other time we see Kanan fighting on that level before his later Season 3&4 performances is when he BFR'ed Maul after being blinded. So to say Kanan was "absolutely never on Maul or Ahsoka's level" would be factually incorrect. Peak Kanan, trusting entirely in the Force, bested an overconfident Maul. And that's the same state Kanan was in when he beat the GI.




Cal's growth throughout Fallen Order cannot be used to scale his future growth. So much of his apparent "growth" was him just remembering all of his Jedi lessons after having cut himself off from the Force for the previous five years. He literally had just got back to the level he'd been as a Padawan when he beat the 9th Sister. And from that point on, he didn't particularly display any major growth outside of rebuilding his lightsaber to allow for dual-wielding. So there's no reason to believe Cal would maintain anything near his level of early game growth.


I stand by my original assessment.

Originally posted by Underachiever59
Rebels S1 Finale Kanan was fighting better than his performances at any point in S2 due to believing he had "nothing to lose" and letting himself give entirely into the Force. The only other time we see Kanan fighting on that level before his later Season 3&4 performances is when he BFR'ed Maul after being blinded. So to say Kanan was "absolutely never on Maul or Ahsoka's level" would be factually incorrect. Peak Kanan, trusting entirely in the Force, bested an overconfident Maul. And that's the same state Kanan was in when he beat the GI.


You said yourself it was an Overconfident Maul. Maul also tripped over a statue when that happened, and Kanan fell to the floor right after, implying he couldn't have carried on fighting at that level for much longer.

Plus as we know it's basically become a running joke in SW that Maul gets pushed over a ledge when fighting an inferior opponent.

So no you haven't shown anything to suggest Kanan is anywhere near Maul level. Old Maul fought on par with Ahsoka in her prime, and both have fought on par with or outright beat down 2 or 3 Inquisitors simultaneously, something which is clearly beyond Kanan.

Sam Witwer also stated that neither Kanan, Ezra or any Inquisitor were on Maul's level. Heck Kanan himself (Freddie Prince) stated Kanan is no match for Maul at all (commenting on the time he bested Maul).

And before you say they're just voice actors, Filoni does discuss their characters and situation with them in great detail, and at least they're being clear. That comment from Hidalgo, is far from clear that he actually thinks the GI is on Maul's level as long as he has a spinning lightsaber

Heck I see no reason to place Kanan or GI anywhere close to TPM Maul or TPM Kenobi either.


Originally posted by Underachiever59
Cal's growth throughout Fallen Order cannot be used to scale his future growth. So much of his apparent "growth" was him just remembering all of his Jedi lessons after having cut himself off from the Force for the previous five years. He literally had just got back to the level he'd been as a Padawan when he beat the 9th Sister. And from that point on, he didn't particularly display any major growth outside of rebuilding his lightsaber to allow for dual-wielding. So there's no reason to believe Cal would maintain anything near his level of early game growth.

He was remembering but he's also clearly older and stronger. He never cut himself off from the Force.

Inquisitors are like trained Jedi. For someone whose training was cut so short to beat the 9th Sister (and Trilla IIRC) in such a short span of time, is damn impressive. He was also Knighted by Cere 10 years before Kanan has been in any kind of duel.

Of course I'm speculating about future growth here, and Cal might not even be around by the time of Rebels, so will just have to wait and see. But I fully expect him to outpace Kanan.


Originally posted by Underachiever59
I stand by my original assessment.


Well your supposed evidence is not in the least bit convincing. I mean the idea that a spinning lightsaber actually puts GI on Maul's level is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Maul doesn't really have a clean comparison to the grand inqusitor and he lost to "focused kanan" alot more emphatically than the Grand inqusitor did.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Maul doesn't really have a clean comparison to the grand inqusitor and he lost to "focused kanan" alot more emphatically than the Grand inqusitor did.


And what happens if Maul is more focused ? LMAO

But your point is wrong anyway, given Kanan gave GI a legit beatdown, chopping up his Saber before he fell into oblivion.

Kanan just managed to push a cocky Maul. As did TCW Ahsoka, as did TPM Obi-Wan, none of whom were really Maul's equal in Sabers or in the Force.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And what happens if Maul is more focused ? LMAO

But your point is wrong anyway, given Kanan gave GI a legit beatdown, chopping up his Saber before he fell into oblivion.

Kanan just managed to push a cocky Maul. As did TCW Ahsoka, as did TPM Obi-Wan, none of whom were really Maul's equal in Sabers or in the Force.
did the grand inqusitor have some "focus" amp i'm unaware of? If you want to say the fight isn't usable that's fine, but making a positive claim based on kanan fighting the inqusitor doesn't make much sense. If he was amped vs maul than he was also amped vs gi. Nothing about maul's performance vs kanan in that context suggested he would have done better than the grand inqusitor did.


Canon actually establishes tpm kenobi as a near equal of tpm maul with multiple sources explicitly stating he was a near-peer of maul and an equal of qui-gon who himself fought maul pretty evenly before wearing out

Ahsoka and Maul's parity is fairly self-explanatory considering they fought evenly for 2 minuites in cw and feloni has explicitly stated they were on the same level. Maul showcased less advantage over ahsoka up until the 2 minuite mark than Ahsoka showcased vs maul in rebels through a minuite of fighting

There's really no reason to assume kanan while amped wasn't an equal of Maul. It was maul, not kanan after all who got tossed over a ledge.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
did the grand inqusitor have some "focus" amp i'm unaware of? If you want to say the fight isn't usable that's fine, but making a positive claim based on kanan fighting the inqusitor doesn't make much sense. If he was amped vs maul than he was also amped vs gi. Nothing about maul's performance vs kanan in that context suggested he would have done better than the grand inqusitor did.


Except the Maul one lasted a few seconds, not enough time for Maul to realise he needs to take Kanan a bit more seriously.

Kanan vs GI lasted plenty of time, and he was giving GI his best fight to date for a while. Plenty of time for GI to amp his own game.

That's kind of obvious Rocky. You try way too hard to put Maul down relative to basically anyone.


Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Canon actually establishes tpm kenobi as a near equal of tpm maul with multiple sources explicitly stating he was a near-peer of maul and an equal of qui-gon who himself fought maul pretty evenly before wearing out

Sure the last fight between Kenobi and Maul was much more competitive, and we know Kenobi can randomly level up. But he still lost the saber fight, so he wasn't his equal in saber combat. So point stands.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ahsoka and Maul's parity is fairly self-explanatory considering they fought evenly for 2 minuites in cw and feloni has explicitly stated they were on the same level. Maul showcased less advantage over ahsoka up until the 2 minuite mark than Ahsoka showcased vs maul in rebels through a minuite of fighting


Filoni outright confirmed Ahsoka wasn't Maul's equal, but you just don't want to hear it.


Originally posted by Rockydonovang
There's really no reason to assume kanan while amped wasn't an equal of Maul. It was maul, not kanan after all who got tossed over a ledge.


There is if you take your bias goggles off.

1) Maul's dialogue "I will make this quick", suggesting he's not taking this 1 v 1 very seriously.
2) Kanan drops to the floor right after, suggesting he was pushing himself at the cost of stamina. Ergo that amp isn't really making him Maul's equal for beyond a few seconds. And even that few second parity is against a Maul not taking the fight seriously.
3) Maul still only fell after he tripped over a statue FFS.



These are all facts which you have a hard time accepting even when the Director outright tells you. So I have no interest in going around in circles with your Anti-Maul agenda.