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Tony Stark (with Batmans knowledge of the Justice League) must find a way to beat the Justice League

Batman (with Tony Starks knowledge of the Avengers) must find a way to beat the avengers

They can face the team members one by one

Who does better?

Batman solo with prep.

None of the Avengers have retarded ass weaknesses like the Justice League. Batman dies.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
None of the Avengers have retarded ass weaknesses like the Justice League. Batman dies.

What weakness does Flash and WW have? Black Adam? GL?

Flash has a lot of CIS - character-induced stupidity. WW is susceptible to get tricked into illsuions (Batman once has defeated her by that way).

Green Lantern? Breaking the will or removing the ring.

Black Adam? Post-Flashpoint version: "Black Adam is vulnerable to powers that nullify or surpass his own magic. He is also unable to transform back to his mortal form without fading into dust".

Pre-Flashpoint version: "He can be reverted to his alter ego with enough electricity."

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What weakness does Flash and WW have? Black Adam? GL? Whatever they are, Batman will have a dossier on it

batman sucks even more than iron man

Tony is all style, rarely substance -- he'd make some sort of 'Member X'-buster then get pumped all over the streets of various cities.

I can see Batman finding the simplistic solutions to various Avengers.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Flash has a lot of CIS - character-induced stupidity. WW is susceptible to get tricked into illsuions (Batman once has defeated her by that way).

Green Lantern? Breaking the will or removing the ring.

Black Adam? Post-Flashpoint version: "Black Adam is vulnerable to powers that nullify or surpass his own magic. He is also unable to transform back to his mortal form without fading into dust".

Pre-Flashpoint version: "He can be reverted to his alter ego with enough electricity."

That's like saying Robbie Reyes is susceptible to CIS (let's not start on Thor, lol), Captain America is susceptible to powers that nullify his SSS, Blade is susceptible to being thrown VERY far away, etc etc...

I was more hoping for specific weaknesses, rather than 'if you nullify his magic, BA has no magic' lmao.

Originally posted by MrMind
Oh hi there phil, don't you run away from meeeee https://78.media.tumblr.com/497ddb4855bb75f11295eac8083864b3/tumblr_oi07bmdlcL1u9u02so2_500.gif

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's like saying Robbie Reyes is susceptible to CIS (let's not start on Thor, lol), Captain America is susceptible to powers that nullify his SSS, Blade is susceptible to being thrown VERY far away, etc etc...

I was more hoping for specific weaknesses, rather than 'if you nullify his magic, BA has no magic' lmao.

And so? Batman with prep wins, he always would find a way.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
And so? Batman with prep wins, he always would find a way.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
And so? Batman with prep wins, he always would find a way.

My point was that the guys I listed didn't have a specific weakness a la Superman and Kryptonite, or MMH and fire. CIS can apply to many characters, magic powerful enough to nullify magic (lmao) can affect many magical characters (if not all), illusions can affect very many characters etc etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point was that the guys I listed didn't have a specific weakness a la Superman and Kryptonite, or MMH and fire. CIS can apply to many characters, magic powerful enough to nullify magic (lmao) can affect many magical characters (if not all), illusions can affect very many characters etc etc.

Batman's prep time is a everyone's weakness.

batman solos both the avengers and justice league at the same time

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What weakness does Flash and WW have? Black Adam? GL?


Oh, I don't think Iron Man does better, like someone said earlier, Tony is all style and that's gonna get him beat up bad.

I do believe prep is an amazing thing and a great equalizer and I would put it up there with speed and instantaneous hf or tp as far as assets in a fight go. It's still not an instant win.

Tony pulls out his Celestial buster and fries the entire JLA in a single hit tbh.

Superman absorbs all the energy of Celestial buster and beats the shit out of Tony

Lmao... not happening.

Originally posted by carver9
Lmao... not happening.
Yes, it does
Originally posted by abhilegend
BTW, Superman tanked and absorbed a hypernova too.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=16393363
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, the only time I see someone trying to argue it is Baziemarc123/Alberto. And even we go by his lowballing, it still had energy 2,500,000x more powerful than a supernova.......So I don't think jbl will like it

Aside from that. It's power also is stated able to *at least* destroy half of the galaxy

https://ibb.co/4ZkzHsp

Combined with what ABHI posted, it seems to imply the potent of Mageddon's anti-sun was greater than half of the galaxy

https://www.quora.com/How-much-energy-does-it-take-to-destroy-a-Galaxy

I've seen too many arguments against that showing. I also agreed with Alberto perspective on it. Nice try though.

Originally posted by carver9
I've seen too many arguments against that showing. I also agreed with Alberto perspective on it. Nice try though.

So you agreed that you at least need to have 2.5 million supernovae energy to have a shot resisting Superman's energy-absorbing?

I want to see a scan showing the armor had that energy

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Oh, I don't think Iron Man does better, like someone said earlier, Tony is all style and that's gonna get him beat up bad.

I do believe prep is an amazing thing and a great equalizer and I would put it up there with speed and instantaneous hf or tp as far as assets in a fight go. It's still not an instant win.

Especially when the opponent isn't holding back or written properly (without too much PIS/CIS). Superman in "Batman: Hush" was able to counter Kryptonite Ring on the Batman's hand by using his freeze breath and last long enough to put Batman in position where he could have getting crushed under a weight of an ambulance.

Batman himself states that Superman could just speed-blitz him and squash with his super-strength, but he doesn't do that even when he's mind-controlled "because Clark deep-down is a good man, and deep-down I'm not".

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Especially when the opponent isn't holding back or written properly (without too much PIS/CIS). Superman in "Batman: Hush" was able to counter Kryptonite Ring on the Batman's hand by using his freeze breath and last long enough to put Batman in position where he could have getting crushed under a weight of an ambulance.

Batman himself states that Superman could just speed-blitz him and squash with his super-strength, but he doesn't do that even when he's mind-controlled "because Clark deep-down is a good man, and deep-down I'm not".

Except Batman's prep still stopped Superman in that instance.

Batman can solo Hickman avengers carvster

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except Batman's prep still stopped Superman in that instance.

Superman was still holding back and could just blow up a gas main with his heat vision with Batman and himself (and be fine after that, unlike Bats), but refused when Batman said him it would kill innocent people.

Batman's prep was useful, but Bats didn't exactly won. Onlt lasted long enough before Catwoman executed a part of the plan with Lois Lane to make Superman broke free from Poison Ivy's mind control.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Superman was still holding back and could just blow up a gas main with his heat vision with Batman and himself (and be fine after that, unlike Bats), but refused when Batman said him it would kill innocent people.

Batman's prep was useful, but Bats didn't exactly won. Onlt lasted long enough before Catwoman executed a part of the plan with Lois Lane to make Superman broke free from Poison Ivy's mind control.

Yeah. But that's the thing - it stopped Superman. Which is what it was meant to do. So was successful.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. But that's the thing - it stopped Superman. Which is what it was meant to do. So was successful.

Correct.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Tony Stark (with Batmans knowledge of the Justice League) must find a way to beat the Justice League

Batman (with Tony Starks knowledge of the Avengers) must find a way to beat the avengers

They can face the team members one by one

Who does better? So I assume "knowledge" includes all the actual countermeasures they've each designed?

So for instance, Tony would have the plans for Batman's Justice Buster armor and Bruce would have the plans for Stark's Adamantium Sentinels?

Originally posted by ODG
So I assume "knowledge" includes all the actual countermeasures they've each designed?

So for instance, Tony would have the plans for Batman's Justice Buster armor and Bruce would have the plans for Stark's Adamantium Sentinels? They have knowledge of the characters from each other and what their countermeasures did but not how to build them

Does Stark have team wrecking prep feats?

Also, do the respective teams know Stark/Wayne are coming for them? The Justice Buster, for example, relied on Flash being compromised and not at his best.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, do the respective teams know Stark/Wayne are coming for them? The Justice Buster, for example, relied on Flash being compromised and not at his best.

And I remember how Batman was scared when infected Superman engaged into a fight. Batman was really begging if Clark isn't nearby him. He was wrong.

And Superman destroyed that Justice Buster armor. Batman,however, eventually won via plot device (Kryptonite Gum, lol).

He won via prep.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He won via prep.

Doesn't contradicting. Plot device itself isn't a bad thing when it used and executed properly.

Not my point

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, do the respective teams know Stark/Wayne are coming for them? The Justice Buster, for example, relied on Flash being compromised and not at his best. They will be caught by surprise.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
They will be caught by surprise.

And both opf them would use the fact than heroes alwys holds back against them. It's called psychological warfare and "use his own good morals against them".

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Does Stark have team wrecking prep feats? He does. But if you were to consider what Stark's prep can do in the hands of another ruthless character -- which is the scenario of this thread -- Red Onslaught used Stark's prep to defeat the combined might of the Avengers World team, the Uncanny Avengers, X-Men, Medusa, Dr. Strange, Nova and Invisible Woman during Avengers & X-Men: Axis #1.

Red Onslaught used Stark's Adamantium Sentinels. It wasn't until the inverted supervillains joined the fight led by an inverted Dr. Doom that the tide turned against Red Onslaught.

I think Bruce could create those kind of Sentinels. Bruce is smart enough, rich enough and ruthless enough to do what Red Onslaught did. Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
And both opf them would use the fact than heroes alwys holds back against them. It's called psychological warfare and "use his own good morals against them". I think Bruce more than Tony. But whether that's more beneficial or harmful to the end results is debatable, right? When Bruce considers his Justice Buster armor, he literally reveals, "Dumb, Bruce. You forgot... the suit was designed for battle with Superman. But Superman has limits. Lines he'd never cross. This thing the toxin has turned him into..."

And that's when the Justice Buster armor gets wrecked.

Stark tech is really good, but I believe that many people forget about the Starbrand.

The Starbrand is still a kid, right?

Ripe for psychological manipulation. If Bats knows one thing, it's kids.

Originally posted by ODG
He does. But if you were to consider what Stark's prep can do in the hands of another ruthless character -- which is the scenario of this thread -- Red Onslaught used Stark's prep to defeat the combined might of the Avengers World team, the Uncanny Avengers, X-Men, Medusa, Dr. Strange, Nova and Invisible Woman during Avengers & X-Men: Axis #1.

Red Onslaught used Stark's Adamantium Sentinels. It wasn't until the inverted supervillains joined the fight led by an inverted Dr. Doom that the tide turned against Red Onslaught.

I think Bruce could create those kind of Sentinels. Bruce is smart enough, rich enough and ruthless enough to do what Red Onslaught did. I think Bruce more than Tony. But whether that's more beneficial or harmful to the end results is debatable, right? When Bruce considers his Justice Buster armor, he literally reveals, "Dumb, Bruce. You forgot... the suit was designed for battle with Superman. But Superman has limits. Lines he'd never cross. This thing the toxin has turned him into..."

And that's when the Justice Buster armor gets wrecked.

Agreed. Plus, having good morals and no kill rule isn't a guarantee from being defeated. The character still can be KO'ed on incapacitated without being killed.

Originally posted by ODG
But in that case, I believe Tony and Bruce have both the intellect, ingenuity and resources to build such countermeasures, whether or not they're given specific blueprints.
While I agree that Bruce's countermeasures can be more psychological when it comes to Superman, I think the stories highlight that Bruce ultimately admits that he relies on Superman's psychology as a crutch. Some of his overt counter-measures are literally appealing to Clark Kent. When Superman has no morals inhibiting him, such as during the Endgame storyarc, Bruce realizes that his Justice Buster armor is useless against Superman.

So it's arguable that relying on psychology is as equally beneficial as inhibitive.

And Superman even with good morals has defeated Batman even when he had a prep. "Hush" also shows than Batman relies on the fact than Superman is a good guy and won't use his full on powers against him. Even under a mind control from Poison Ivy. Joker Venom toxin, however, was a complete different thing. Batman barely won via Kryptonite Gum in the end, and even there he stated than "Neither of us has won".

I think it's fair to say though... that Bruce tends to have more contingency plans. Which contributes to the idea that Bruce preps for everything. Even failure. He has contingencies for his contingencies.

Whereas Tony... he attacks a problem with a "buster" armor, and... he's kinda done when it fails, right? At least, when it comes to specific opponents.

Originally posted by ODG
I think it's fair to say though... that Bruce tends to have more contingency plans. Which contributes to the idea that Bruce preps for everything. Even failure. He has contingencies for his contingencies.

Whereas Tony... he attacks a problem with a "buster" armor, and... he's kinda done when it fails, right? At least, when it comes to specific opponents.

Sort of.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know Suzanne is dead, right? But yeah, good points /sarcasm

So? What's YOUR point?

That he's wrong

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That he's wrong

Okay. Tell him.

I did. You jumped in lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did. You jumped in lol.

Because you mentioned me there.

So we agree that I did indeed tell him. Period.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So we agree that I did indeed tell him. Period.

Yes.

So many good points

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Tony Stark (with Batmans knowledge of the Justice League) must find a way to beat the Justice League

Batman (with Tony Starks knowledge of the Avengers) must find a way to beat the avengers

They can face the team members one by one

Who does better?

Ok so the way I see it the answer is that Batman does better.

That's not to say they aren't equally capable of creating weapons or means to fight or defeat each member of the team they face. I could even accept an argument that Tony might edge Bruce in the weapon building but only just.

The thing is that as ODG said Bruce plays a more psychological game and also has more contingencies. Psychology isn't just about planning on the lines characters won't cross but using knowledge of how they fight and react to direct their actions or to guide their movements into a fall.

An example of how this works is the times Vrill Dox II has defeated his father Brainiac and his son. Both of whom are 12th level geniuses while he is only an10th. They are smarter than him but he is the better psychologist of the three. He plays their insecurities and neurocies against them. Like the time he shielded in his mind emotions his father couldn't deal with. He knew Brainiac's arrogance would have him break thru his mental blocks to learn what secrets were kept there. Having forced his way in he was in no position to defend or shield himself from the emotions Vrill knew he couldn't handle.

If the question was which one could come up with the best devices to take down the team probably Tony by a hair. If it came down to best attacks period equal but since Bruce can gain defeats without attacks and would have contingencies for of plan A, B or C failed he should have the greater success rate.