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Battle of 2 mobsters with a disfigured faces. Harvey Dent vs Billy Russo.

Fight takes place in an adandoned warehouse. Both in character. Fight to death, KO or incapacitation.

Two-Face has 2 pistols and 2 knives + his coin, Jigsaw has a pistol and a knife. Both also can use nearby objects as a melee weapon. No outside help from each side (such as "callng reinforcements from a gang" and etc).

You've armed Two-Face better

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've armed Two-Face better

Because he is obsessed with 2. Like I said, in character.

He is, but I'm sure Jigsaw wouldn't mind having the same amount of weapons

Two-Face calls for reinforcements from his gang, and Harvey Dent answers.

Probably what would happen on panel, too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He is, but I'm sure Jigsaw wouldn't mind having the same amount of weapons

Maybe, but I don't think he carries 2 pistols and 2 knives. Jigsaw's standard gear is a very blurry thing.

Sometimes he does.

Harvey doesn't always carry dual weapons, either. Despite his obsession with duality.

Maybe he only has two bullets. Checkmate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Two-Face calls for reinforcements from his gang, and Harvey Dent answers.

Well, if both sides decied to play dirty, so both of them would.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sometimes he does.

Harvey doesn't always carry dual weapons, either. Despite his obsession with duality.

Anyway.

I think Harvey is better fighter. Jigsaw described as one of the best street fighters in Marvel, but honestly, his skills isn't impressive. He lost to Punisher even after getting drop on him, and Daredevil with Black Widow wrecked him easily.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Well, if both sides decied to play dirty, so both of them would.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6e/00/f4/6e00f49051047f7a1d43879889544eaf--drax-language-lessons.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6e/00/f4/6e00f49051047f7a1d43879889544eaf--drax-language-lessons.jpg

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Anyway.

I think Harvey is better fighter. Jigsaw described as one of the best street fighters in Marvel, but honestly, his skills isn't impressive. He lost to Punisher even after getting drop on him, and Daredevil with Black Widow wrecked him easily.

But he has also beat the Punisher.

Jigsaw gets owned a lot, true, but... so does Harvey. They're quite similar.

And they both can surprise us with their showings against metas, from time to time.

Anyway, if you believe Harvey is better, then you definitely shouldn't have given him the advantage of one extra handgun and one extra knife

https://i.ibb.co/zQnJLfb/document-20201130-0030.webp

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But he has also beat the Punisher.

Jigsaw gets owned a lot, true, but... so does Harvey. They're quite similar.

And they both can surprise us with their showings against metas, from time to time.

Anyway, if you believe Harvey is better, then you definitely shouldn't have given him the advantage of one extra handgun and one extra knife

Beat? I don't remember anything of that, honestly. Even if it was, Frank still has more wins over Jigsaw.

Their shows against metas mostly outliers (like, Jigsaw breaking Spider-Man's arm) or when Harvey has choked out Killer Croc (who's a sore jobber) or has a context. It's an one on one fight, without henchmen and extra gear like Jigsaw's exoskeleton, which he isn't used since a long years ago.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/zQnJLfb/document-20201130-0030.webp

Spider-Man has a good point. But Two-Face at least was a good guy before. Jigsaw wasn't.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Beat? I don't remember anything of that, honestly.

Read In The Blood, then.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Even if it was, Frank still has more wins over Jigsaw.


Goes without saying.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Read In The Blood, then.



Goes without saying.

InThe Blood had a context, though. Frank before it fought against a female ninja with a flamethrower and was weakened, and Frank was KP'ed after a grerande explosion. But only for a short time.

I remember that comic book. Frank in the end of that comic book wasn't at his peak and he was exhausted. Whole fight had a context.

In 1986 "Punisher Vol 1" comic book, Jigsaw got drop on Frank right after Punisher escaped from a trap and was weakened. Frank still beaten him by stabbing him in his hip with a knife.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
InThe Blood had a context, though. Frank before it fought against a female ninja with a flamethrower and was weakened, and Frank was KP'ed after a grerande explosion. But only for a short time.

The grenade Frank himself used. Jigsaw was right at the ground zero of it, as well. And tanked it better than Frank.

And Jigsaw had him dead to rights before and after the grenade explosion.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
I remember that comic book. Frank in the end of that comic book wasn't at his peak and he was exhausted. Whole fight had a context.

Frank is almost never at 100%. A feat is a feat. Especially since his opponent is Two-Face here, whose feat catalogue is sorely lacking as well. We need to work with what we've got.

Jigsaw also had the upper hand against Frank and was about to finish him in volume 3 issue 4 --- Daredevil saved the Punisher by disarming Jigsaw before he could pull the trigger.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The grenade Frank himself used. Jigsaw was right at the ground zero of it, as well. And tanked it better than Frank.

And Jigsaw had him dead to rights before and after the grenade explosion.



Frank is almost never at 100%. A feat is a feat. Especially since his opponent is Two-Face here, whose feat catalogue is sorely lacking as well. We need to work with what we've got.

Jigsaw also had the upper hand against Frank and was about to finish him in volume 3 issue 4 --- Daredevil saved the Punisher by disarming Jigsaw before he could pull the trigger.

Feat, but with context. Frank, IIRC, also was almost unarmed and he was focusing on saving Henry (jigsaw's son), and Frank took the grenade explosion worse because he already was worned out. Jigsaw was fresh and took it better, but was badly injured.

And I remember Vol. 3. Jigsaw was impersonating Frank there. Later Frank killed him, but Jigsaw later appeared to be alive. Same about Tombstone, who was captured and drowned by Frank in Punisher Vol. 3

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Feat, but with context. Frank, IIRC, also was almost unarmed and he was focusing on saving Henry (jigsaw's son), and Frank took the grenade explosion worse because he already was worned out. Jigsaw was fresh and took it better, but was badly injured.

And I remember Vol. 3. Jigsaw was impersonating Frank there. Later Frank killed him, but Jigsaw later appeared to be alive. Same about Tombstone, who was captured and drowned by Frank in Punisher Vol. 3

Nah, Jigsaw and Frank were both focused on killing each other. The knife throw almost hit Henry, so if anything Frank only endangered him. He did rescue him in the end, but only after Jigsaw fell to his "death".

Henry saved them from each other's projectiles, then it was pure hand-to-hand. The knife was Frank's and Jigsaw picked it up only after kicking the crap out of the Punisher.

Using the grenade was Frank's own choice. And unlike Jigsaw, he was wearing his kevlar suit.

I'm not arguing Jigsaw can get the majority over the Punisher. I just can't deny he does have some victories against him here and there.

And since we're debating Harvey and Billy here, we can't be very fussy, as they rarely get involved in single combat themselves. They have their henchmen and flunkies for that purpose.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nah, Jigsaw and Frank were both focused on killing each other. The knife throw almost hit Henry, so if anything Frank only endangered him. He did rescue him in the end, but only after Jigsaw fell to his "death".

Henry saved them from each other's projectiles, then it was pure hand-to-hand. The knife was Frank's and Jigsaw picked it up only after kicking the crap out of the Punisher.

Using the grenade was Frank's own choice. And unlike Jigsaw, he was wearing his kevlar suit.

I'm not arguing Jigsaw can get the majority over the Punisher. I just can't deny he does have some victories against him here and there.

And since we're debating Harvey and Billy here, we can't be very fussy, as they rarely get involved in single combat themselves. They have their henchmen and flunkies for that purpose.

Sometimes Jigsaw can get lucky. But Frank wins mostly.

Fair point. But I made it one on one fight because I prefer that type of combat.

Of course he does. Hero always beats his villain, in most cases. "Happy End" is a must, at least in Marvel and DC.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Of course he does. Hero always beats his villain, in most cases. "Happy End" is a must, at least in Marvel and DC.

Heh, laws of the genre. Heroes win, villainw loses. And even if villainw wins, it's only temporarely.