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Chaos King, Oblivion, Scrier vs Darkseid, Moebius, Black Racer

Which team wins? Would it even be close?

Since supposedly Chaos King was just a part of Oblivion and Scrier is less powerful than either, T1 is basically Oblivion vs Darkseid, Moebius, and BLack Racer.

Either it's a draw since Oblivion is oblivion or T2 uses some cosmic shenanigans to beat Oblivion for the win.

Oblivion has very few feats to suggest he could win here 🤷🤷

Oblivion solos

Originally posted by MrMind
Oblivion solos
Oblivion couldn't beat Infinity in his own realm with better backup than she had.

Yeah, Oblivion is all hype

except he surpasses chaos king and was implied to break the fourth wall

So She-Hulk level?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So She-Hulk level?


more like mxy level and even then im lowballing oblivion

Originally posted by MrMind
Oblivion solos

Indeed.

Team 2

oblivion is basically geb/pralaya status in marvel

the void before creation/multiverse, everything in marvel are part of his creations

chaos king is a tiny aspect of oblivion, and chaos king by himself is on the level of multi-eternity

Originally posted by MrMind
oblivion is basically geb/pralaya status in marvel

the void before creation/multiverse, everything in marvel are part of his creations

chaos king is a tiny aspect of oblivion, and chaos king by himself is on the level of multi-eternity
HE COULDN'T BEAT INFINITY IN HIS OWN REALM WITH BETTER BACKUP THAN SHE HAD.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Originally posted by MrMind
except he surpasses chaos king and was implied to break the fourth wall Originally posted by abhilegend
So She-Hulk level?
This.

People need to learn that metatextual powers is highly contextual and not a shortcut to greater power.

Originally posted by MrMind
oblivion is basically geb/pralaya status in marvel

the void before creation/multiverse, everything in marvel are part of his creations

chaos king is a tiny aspect of oblivion, and chaos king by himself is on the level of multi-eternity
Not really. Oblivion is on par with Eternity, Infinity, and Death. Chaos King is marginally stronger than an amped Skyfather or Galactus.

The entire arc ended with Chaos King getting trapped in a pocket universe where he destroyed everything.

Originally posted by Astner
He wasn't compared to Eternity in power. Eternity made it clear that he simply couldn't fight him for pseudo-philosophical reasons.

https://i.imgur.com/ZhRW6lZm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/xhUcOu1m.jpg

Eternity would clearly win, since the Chaos King was a skyfather-level threat.

And if this wasn't made clear enough, it's even explained in Scarlet Witch #13 that the Chaos King was nowhere near Eternity in terms of power.

https://i.imgur.com/HVOwWv1l.jpg Originally posted by Galan007
Also worth noting that they ultimately beat Chaos King by allowing him to think he'd "won"... And they accomplished this by placing CK in his own universe(singular) without his knowledge, of which he absorbed/overtook:
http://i.imgur.com/RP4D70fm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2dxnfdVm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3PXDq6Tm.jpg

Point being: an entity that was truly multiversal would surely know the difference between overtaking one universe vs. overtaking infinite universes.
Now, to be fair, I think the New Gods are on part with the Chaos King and Scrier, while Oblivion is on an entirely different level. So I'd still give it to team one. But the Obivlion and Chaos King wank needs to stop.

Originally posted by Astner
This.

People need to learn that metatextual powers is highly contextual and not a shortcut to greater power.


Not really. Oblivion is on par with Eternity, Infinity, and Death. Chaos King is marginally stronger than an amped Skyfather or Galactus.

The entire arc ended with Chaos King getting trapped in a pocket universe where he destroyed everything.


Now, to be fair, I think the New Gods are on part with the Chaos King and Scrier, while Oblivion is on an entirely different level. So I'd still give it to team one. But the Obivlion and Chaos King wank needs to stop.
Oblivion is hardly on another level.

Originally posted by MrMind
oblivion is basically geb/pralaya status in marvel

the void before creation/multiverse, everything in marvel are part of his creations

chaos king is a tiny aspect of oblivion, and chaos king by himself is on the level of multi-eternity

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oblivion is hardly on another level.
I disagree. I think he's one of the top-tier abstracts alongside Eternity.
Originally posted by Astner
https://i.imgur.com/w1FKxB4m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/eg8uNzUm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/o17WBnqm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/mRBwn9um.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/26r1FYrm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/CKxNKvqm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/mRKLALRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/M9Rm5lBm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/haLnNDLm.jpg
- Quasar #25.

Although, I agree with you that he doesn't have much in terms of feats.

Originally posted by Astner
I disagree. I think he's one of the top-tier abstracts alongside Eternity.

- Quasar #25.

Although, I agree with you that he doesn't have much in terms of feats.
So below Spectre level?

https://i.postimg.cc/4Hfkbwv1/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/QVmrxGsY/image.jpg

Originally posted by Astner
I disagree. I think he's one of the top-tier abstracts alongside Eternity.

- Quasar #25.

Although, I agree with you that he doesn't have much in terms of feats.
Thank you for posting those scans. Keep in mind it was Infinity with Quasar as her avatar with nohting but Cosmic Awareness. VS Oblivion, in his own realm, with Maelstrom as his avatar who also had the abstract Anomaly's power PLUS the QUantum Bands augmenting his own kinetic powers PLUS Cosmic Awareness.

Sad.

Originally posted by zopzop
Thank you for posting those scans. Keep in mind it was Infinity with Quasar as her avatar with nohting but Cosmic Awareness. VS Oblivion, in his own realm, with Maelstrom as his avatar who also had the abstract Anomaly's power PLUS the QUantum Bands augmenting his own kinetic powers PLUS Cosmic Awareness.

Sad.
There's another argument to be made here.

According to Infinity (in the penultimate scan above) Maelstrom would've supplanted Oblivion had he succeeded in his mission.

In an alternate future this happened. And the then ascended Maelstrom fought Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet for the dominion of the universe, reinforcing that:

Ascended Maelstrom ≈ Infinity Gauntlet > Eternity ≈ Oblivion.

Originally posted by Astner
https://i.imgur.com/6UOYrAz.png

https://i.imgur.com/oRyeCPim.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/UojuszGm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ghrtkE7m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/09WJ5pcm.jpg
- Quasar #30.

Originally posted by Astner
There's another argument to be made here.

According to Infinity (in the penultimate scan above) Maelstrom would've supplanted Oblivion had he succeeded in his mission.

In an alternate future this happened. And the then ascended Maelstrom fought Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet for the dominion of the universe, reinforcing that:

Ascended Maelstrom ≈ Infinity Gauntlet > Eternity ≈ Oblivion.


- Quasar #30.
Yeah, that's the issue of Quasar that had him break into the New Universe because of Maelstrom's attack.

This makes Infinity holding her own vs Oblivion+Maelstrom+Quantum Bands+Anomaly's power+home field advantage even more impressive.

team 1.

mainly because i'm not sure how the other team would go about actually beating oblivion in a forum fight.

first of all those were avatars of infinity and oblivion

second of all, oblivion scales to chaos king directly. everything chaos king has done (multiversal destruction), multiply ten folds

he's everything that isn't, everything that doesn't exist
https://i.ibb.co/YBvr1K2/oblivion.png

he's the non-existence itself, the non existence beyond death
https://i.imgur.com/Y3pVqz6.png

Originally posted by MrMind
first of all those were avatars of infinity and oblivion
No, they weren't. That's an excuse you just made up to justify your head-canon.

Originally posted by MrMind
second of all, oblivion scales to chaos king directly. everything chaos king has done (multiversal destruction), multiply ten folds
No. The Chaos King brought about destruction across one timeline. When Amadeus Cho mentioned that 98.76% of the "multiverse" had been destroyed, he referred to the physical universe plus the universes of the gods. We know this because these are the worlds the Chaos King assaults. This is why context is so important.

And universal destruction (while not easy) is certainly within the reach of beings like Odin and Galactus given enough time and resources.

Originally posted by MrMind
he's everything that isn't, everything that doesn't exist

he's the non-existence itself, the non existence beyond death
This doesn't mean anything as far as power is concerned.

Also when Oblivion references what happened in Chaos War, he calls Mikaboshi as his aspect and not the Chaos King, to reach the levels seen at the end of the event he had to absorb countless gods and pantheons along the way before reaching his true Chaos King form. Which by default makes his maximum form and feats not applicable with Oblivion as he achieved it with powers external to his base power.

I don't think that's a good argument because Oblivion specifically pointed out that Mikaboshi almost succeeded, implying that he did in fact refer to the Mikaboshi as the Chaos King.

But like I said, most evidence points towards Mikaboshi being High-Skyfather level. Thor managed to hurt him, and All-father Hercules was able to put up a fight.

It's not completely black and white because you can make a (weak) case against it through Scrier from the same issue (Mighty Thor Annual #1) and his character history.

But the overwhelming evidence points to "multiverse" being just the universe + universes of the gods as the most sensible interpretation.

Although in retrospect Chaos King did defeat Nightmare in his dimension, and Nightmare defeated the Living Tribunal and killed a few Beyonders recently.

but you also established that Chaos King was nowhere near Nightmare in terms of power:

Originally posted by Astner

And if this wasn't made clear enough, it's even explained in Scarlet Witch #13 that the Chaos King was nowhere near Eternity in terms of power.

https://i.imgur.com/HVOwWv1l.jpg

Originally posted by Smurph
but you also established that Chaos King was nowhere near Nightmare in terms of power:
Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally posted by Astner
Then he destroyed the Dream Dimension.

https://i.imgur.com/mHNMW4Mm.jpg

I'm not, I'm just questioning the value of the statement in SW #13

yet nightmare>beyonders, it's more of a testament how powerful CK was

if nightmare>beyonders (and LT), and CK>nightmare, then it really devalues LT's and the beyonders station in the marvel universe. especially if CK was only universal (even after amping himself with the powers of various pantheons).

either that, or nightmare was full of shit when he said he beat those beyonders. i mean, we never saw him beat them on panel so we're kind of just taking his word for it.

Nightmare was recently retconned into a cosmic level being , before then he was not particularly powerful, in fact he's taken quite a few losses, even as late as Symbiote Spider-Man: Alien Reality (2019) #4 where he's finessed by Spider-man. Chaos War came out in 2010.

Originally posted by Astner
Nightmare was recently retconned into a cosmic level being
Marvel trying to give Nightmare a boost because they see how popular the Sandman series (and Dream) is on Netflix.

Originally posted by Astner
Nightmare was recently retconned into a cosmic level being , before then he was not particularly powerful, in fact he's taken quite a few losses, even as late as Symbiote Spider-Man: Alien Reality (2019) #4 where he's finessed by Spider-man. Chaos War came out in 2010. and more recently still:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jean Grey bitchslapped Nightmare right off Earth

https://i.postimg.cc/QFSSwSTp/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/cKHTSYRP/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/d7x6t1n3/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/sGFJ7NkR/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/PvmQ4MHv/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/RNBR0217/image.jpg

Skyfathers lol

Nightmare is all over the place

Or Jean is just that powerful.

Originally posted by carver9
Or Jean is just that powerful.

Are we having our BZ?

Originally posted by carver9
Or Jean is just that powerful.

Jean >Nightmare > Beyonder > Living Tribunal?

If you can't see that this is wonky, then...ok.

oblivion is the void opposite to creation

a lesser oblivion, chaos king predates creation per eternity
he and eternity goes hand in hand

ck even in mikaboshi form before he ascend was greater than atum the god eater who in turn greater than galaxy busting skyfathers

not just amadeus cho, hercules (who was the direct opponent of CK) also declared CK to be the greatest threat the multiverse's ever been

in this context chaos war was clearly a multiversal event

chaos king literally scared marvel death away with tail between her legs

I don't see any of the team 2 beating lady death, let alone chaos king, let alone oblivion

Not even the current Darkseid? Hmmm.

what did current darkseid do other than oneshotting the quintessence

soon after he became GEB's *****

Chaos king is a fodder . Scrier and oblivion is definitely a threat . The fight between scrier and galactus was nearly destroying the multiverse . However , Darkseid team still wins . Darkseid fall in to the multiverse literally destroyed the entire bleed space and the orrey . Current Darkseid reshaped the fourth world which is larger than the infinite multiverse .

SO imo , Team 2 win with mid difficulty

Originally posted by TheManWhoLaughs
Chaos king is a fodder . Scrier and oblivion is definitely a threat . The fight between scrier and galactus was nearly destroying the multiverse .
Galactus feared the Chaos King, so that argument doesn't work.

Originally posted by TheManWhoLaughs
Darkseid fall in to the multiverse literally destroyed the entire bleed space and the orrey .
The descent and the subsequent destruction of the multiverse was metaphorical, it never actually happened nor was it made clear that it would happen, and if it, did to what extent.

Originally posted by TheManWhoLaughs
Current Darkseid reshaped the fourth world which is larger than the infinite multiverse .
It isn't. If it was then it wouldn't fit in Morison's finite Multiverse Map.

Even the sizes of planets in the Fourth World have been compared to that of stars, so while the universe is noticeably upscaled, it's about a factor of a million or so.

Originally posted by Astner
The descent and the subsequent destruction of the multiverse was metaphorical, it never actually happened nor was it made clear that it would happen, and if it, did to what extent. It did happen.

By the end of FC Darkseid's fall has sucked the entire multiverse into his personal singularity. Only Superman and the JL headquarters remained at that point. Superman's wish from the Miracle machine is what healed the multiverse after.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Jean >Nightmare > Beyonder > Living Tribunal?

If you can't see that this is wonky, then...ok.

I see it as a high end ft for Jean, nothing more.

So you're saying Jean isn't actually that powerful, it was just an outlier. Thanks.

Originally posted by Astner
Galactus feared the Chaos King, so that argument doesn't work.


The descent and the subsequent destruction of the multiverse was metaphorical, it never actually happened nor was it made clear that it would happen, and if it, did to what extent.



It really is mind boggling how stupid you are regarding this stuff.




crylaugh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're saying Jean isn't actually that powerful, it was just an outlier. Thanks.

Nope, not what I'm saying. The ft belongs to her, it's just a high showing "that IS usable".

Originally posted by carver9
Nope, not what I'm saying. The ft belongs to her, it's just a high showing "that IS usable".

Ah so you think it's a very good showing for Jean that is totally valid.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Jean >Nightmare > Beyonder > Living Tribunal?

If you can't see that this is wonky, then...ok.