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Herc from Marvel

Stats equalized. Hand to hand. Fight in Hell's Kitchen.

Wonder Woman gets her gear?

Nope

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman gets her gear? He did say hand to hand but I think WW edges him out.

Based on?

Originally posted by Smurph
Based on? More fierce and more skilled and it least just as strong.

Under these conditions, I would say it's a split tbh.

Herc is that skilled?

Originally posted by lawest9
More fierce and more skilled and it least just as strong. Stats are equalized

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Herc is that skilled?

Stats equal he edges her.

Wonder Woman hears the location name, her natural instincts kick in, a stove is magically summoned and she gets to work.

Hercules wins by by default.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Stats equal he edges her.

When he was mortal, i.e no real super strength and durability, be didn't impress me that much in terms of skill. Think his best feat was fighting Elektra.

Diana buries him

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When he was mortal, i.e no real super strength and durability, be didn't impress me that much in terms of skill. Think his best feat was fighting Elektra.

Yes but he's spent a lot more time fighting without powers than she has...imo he gets a nod in skill and experience. A slight nod but a nod nonetheless

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes but he's spent a lot more time fighting without powers than she has...imo he gets a nod in skill and experience. A slight nod but a nod nonetheless

Stats equalized means he wins.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes but he's spent a lot more time fighting without powers than she has...imo he gets a nod in skill and experience. A slight nod but a nod nonetheless

Whereas I just don't see experience being that big a factor. After a while, there are only so many ways a human body can punch and kick, after all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When he was mortal, i.e no real super strength and durability, be didn't impress me that much in terms of skill. Think his best feat was fighting Elektra. But... isn't that more than Diana can say, in terms of powerless skill feats?

Good question.

She fluctuates a whole f*cking lot, but how many times she's been depowered?

If only we had a credible Diana fan whose name is not Nvr.

--
Herc's "powerless" state is often quite not-so-powerless. He cheats all the time.

It says "stats equalized," not "depowered." I'm reasonably sure the intent was who would win on pure skill showings, not who is more used to fighting depowered.

Because even depowered their stats wouldn't be equal.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Whereas I just don't see experience being that big a factor. After a while, there are only so many ways a human body can punch and kick, after all.

It's usually not. I mean look at Thor. But Herc imo is different. I feel like in this matchup his experience makes him a better combatant with equal stats. Come to think of it, I also feel he has better damage soak. I don't think he rags her but I think he'd take a slight majority. I also adding in her lack of weapons which hinder her alot more than him.

One more thing (sorry about the double post) but when OP says equal stats. What exactly does that mean? Is he scaling up to her speed? Is she going down to his? Then things get murky with durability, endurance etc.

I thought they had equal durability, speed, strength etc.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
One more thing (sorry about the double post) but when OP says equal stats. What exactly does that mean? Is he scaling up to her speed? Is she going down to his? Then things get murky with durability, endurance etc. Just assume equal for either. To the degree that one has higher stats than the other, they get equalized in the middle.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought they had equal durability, speed, strength etc.

Yea but damage soak is more a mental thing than an actual stat. Like punisher for example.
Originally posted by Smurph
Just assume equal for either. To the degree that one has higher stats than the other, they get equalized in the middle.

That's fine. But I feel like she souybe more affected than he would. She loses flight and her speed is nerfed while his speed is amped. But he's not accustomed to being that fast

Originally posted by Smurph
But... isn't that more than Diana can say, in terms of powerless skill feats?
Crossing swords with Elektra is hardly the epitome of skill feats.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Crossing swords with Elektra is hardly the epitome of skill feats. Agreed, but that only underlines my point

At the very least, she has deflected bullets whilst depowered.

Fair, but not relevant. There are no bullets or bracelets here, and speed is equalized.

But she's not using speed to deflect bullets....it's skill. She had no powers, so was at human level - and we're definitely not fast enough to block bullets, even if I had carbon fibre Kevlar diamond bracelets.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But she's not using speed to deflect bullets....it's skill. She had no powers, so was at human level - and we're definitely not fast enough to block bullets, even if I had carbon fibre Kevlar diamond bracelets. My point was that you have to be fast and skilled (at deflecting bullets) in order to deflect bullets. Neither trait is relevant here because speed difference is nil and it's hand to hand.

If you can deflect spammers bullets, you can deflect punches!

But yeah, she was depowered then, so had no speed. And used pure skill to deflect a bullet, so I am saying if that bullet was replaced by a Herc fist, she can also deflect it, or dodge, or at the very least, do something about it, even without any superhuman speed.

Like I said, it's a paltry feat - but I haven't been impressed by Herc, who doesn't have something similar (or does he?)

It's an alright feat, it just isn't a hand to hand feat. I think Herc blocked Elektra's shuriken and shot an arrow down the barrel of a gun but again, neither are relevant here

Originally posted by Smurph
Agreed, but that only underlines my point Originally posted by Smurph
My point was that you have to be fast and skilled (at deflecting bullets) in order to deflect bullets. Neither trait is relevant here because speed difference is nil and it's hand to hand.
So what's the big Hercules skill feat we are supposed to be awestruck at here?

Diana can at least throw down with Superman even though she's vastly weaker than him on pure skill.

Originally posted by Smurph
It's an alright feat, it just isn't a hand to hand feat. I think Herc blocked Elektra's shuriken and shot an arrow down the barrel of a gun but again, neither are relevant here

At least Diana had the muscle memory (or skill) to block bullets. Which would travel faster than a fist.

Unless you're saying she's able to deflect something as fast and as small as a bullet on skill, but is unable to do so if that bullet was scaled up to fist size and scaled down to fist speed.

Lol I didn't say you should be awestruck at anything. I think both of these characters are more talk than show.

Diana's more skilled than Superman, got it.

Originally posted by Smurph
Lol I didn't say you should be awestruck at anything. I think both of these characters are more talk than show.

Diana's more skilled than Superman, got it.
Superman is more skilled than Hercules, so that's not in his favor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
At least Diana had the muscle memory (or skill) to block bullets. Which would travel faster than a fist.

Unless you're saying she's able to deflect something as fast and as small as a bullet on skill, but is unable to do so if that bullet was scaled up to fist size and scaled down to fist speed. No... but again, to the degree that the feat demonstrates how fast Diana's reflexes are even sans powers, it's irrelevant - because speed is equalized.

And to the degree that it shows Diana's expertise in bullet blocking, it's irrelevant - because no bullets or bracelets here.

I just don't see value in the feat outside those two categories.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman is more skilled than Hercules, so that's not in his favor. So we're agreed that the reason Diana can throw down with Clark is her skill advantage over him?

Originally posted by Smurph
So we're agreed that the reason Diana can throw down with Clark is her skill advantage over him?
Yes. Diana>Superman>Hercules in skill.

Cool. She must be extremely skilled to make up for that difference in stats.

Originally posted by Smurph
Cool. She must be extremely skilled to make up for that difference in stats.
Yeah

Originally posted by Smurph
Cool. She must be extremely skilled to make up for that difference in stats. Ironically enough, Superman has much better skill feats.

Superman has much better skill feats than pretty much any other top tier lol

With the recent and specific skill acquisition on Warworld, shown off by beating Mongul in the depowered state, I'd be curious to see how he's shown when back to Earth, but it's likely it'll be ignored, given he'd make others redudant.

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, I know. Between that and the massive stats gap, I find the assertion that WW throws down with him "on pure skill" ... tenuous. Tbh, it's hammered down really hard how much more skilled she is than him. It doesn't translate every one of his skill showings to her , but it's certain what the intent is for her level when compared to the ones 'like him'.

Yeah, I get that that's the intent, but for forum purposes I think it's disingenuous to say that the reason WW gets decent showings against Superman is purely because of a (presumably massive) skill gap between them.

The comic's intent is also clear when we see Batman "throw down"/survive combat with WW but saying it's on pure skill would come with a bit of an eye roll. At least, insofar as the statement is made to prove Bruce's skill.

Put another way, WW using skill to briefly keep up with Clark in a fight is great and cool, but it's so drenched in plotting and context that it's hard to extrapolate a feat for the purpose of a pure skill match like this one.

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, I get that that's the intent, but for forum purposes I think it's disingenuous to say that the reason WW gets decent showings against Superman is purely because of a (presumably massive) skill gap between them.

The comic's intent is also clear when we see Batman "throw down"/survive combat with WW but saying it's on pure skill would come with a bit of an eye roll. At least, insofar as the statement is made to prove Bruce's skill.

Put another way, WW using skill to briefly keep up with Clark in a fight is great and cool, but it's so drenched in plotting and context that it's hard to extrapolate a feat for the purpose of a pure skill match like this one.

Her gear helps to a degree.

Fair point