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Where does he stop

1. Grey Hulk
2. Savage Hulk
3. Red She hulk
4. Red Hulk
5 immortal hulk
6. World War Hulk
7. World breaker hulk

Boss round HOTM Hulk

Stops at 2, hard. Especially if we look at what actually took place during the DOS story. DOS Doomsday isn't really that impressive.

What happened during DoS, Carv?

You know what happened.

Well what took place for you to say he wasn't impressive?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well what took place for you to say he wasn't impressive?

He wasn't Hulk.

gets to 6 or 7.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What happened during DoS, Carv?

DOS Doomsday was weak. Why is the Celestial busting armor in Thor vs Hulk weak?

Originally posted by carver9
DOS Doomsday was weak. Why is the Celestial busting armor in Thor vs Hulk weak?

Explain how he was weak.

Is he refreshed after every match or wading through everyone

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Is he refreshed after every match or wading through everyone

In DOS he just got stronger as it went on, so.....

Originally posted by carver9
DOS Doomsday was weak. Why is the Celestial busting armor in Thor vs Hulk weak?

Oh, you're using the weakened DoS Doomsday from the start of the story? I guess the Hulks need whatever advantage you can give them, eh?

Originally posted by Delta1938
In DOS he just got stronger as it went on, so.....

I know I'm just curious.

List is weird, but lol @ carver talking shit.

Originally posted by carver9
Stops at 2, hard. Especially if we look at what actually took place during the DOS story. DOS Doomsday isn't really that impressive. That's crazy, anyone who can kill Superman is beyond impressive.

Read the comic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
List is weird, but lol @ carver talking shit.

Yea I don't like savage placement

Originally posted by carver9
Read the comic.

You above all should.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea I don't like savage placement

Yeah, same.

Originally posted by carver9
Read the comic.

Lol... I've posted multiple scans proving my point.

They would be irrelevant, I bet

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I've posted multiple scans proving my point.

Sure you have. Yet more proof that people consider posting scans to be somehow the equivalent of a decent argument. When it generally isn't.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They would be irrelevant, I bet

Why would they be irrelevant?

Because they'd be probably you arguing that Guy Gardner didn't have his shields up, or it would be of a weakened Doomsday, the usual.

Guy Garder, Blue Beetle. The entire comic is full of low showings.

Originally posted by carver9
Guy Garder, Blue Beetle. The entire comic is full of low showings.

I thought we discussed Guy already, and you conceded defeat? Do you not remember? Happy to repost:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here, he is shot by a sniper in the back of the head - note he has NO YELLOW AURA AROUND HIM! GIRLS ARE TOUCHING HIM!!! YET!!!:

https://i.postimg.cc/Nyx4nKkK/RCO007-1486957159.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/67Kczrns/RCO008-1486957159.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/rDxgSndC/RCO009-1486957159.jpg

Guess what - he still had a shield up. Literally says he does.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, here is A WHOLE ALBUM OF Guy FLYING IN SPACE AND BEING GRABBED

https://imgur.com/a/uqNnp

Are Carver and JBL going to argue that he has NO shields up, and thus, a human can fly in space wearing just a leather jacket? Answers, please.

As for Booster, why is it not a high showing for him? Plus, was Doomsday not weakened? Am sure we have had this convo before....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought we discussed Guy already, and you conceded defeat? Do you not remember? Happy to repost:




As for Booster, why is it not a high showing for him? Plus, was Doomsday not weakened? Am sure we have had this convo before....

And then I posted a scan of Doomsday grabbing his jacket. How in the heck was Doomsday able to grab Guy jacket if a shield was up? Explain please.

Here, explain please...

https://ibb.co/R783npY

Originally posted by carver9
And then I posted a scan of Doomsday grabbing his jacket. How in the heck was Doomsday able to grab Guy jacket if a shield was up? Explain please.

Did you even read my post and see the scans, lmao.

He gets grabbed through his shield all the time. READ.

The Death of Superman novelization by Roger Stern
https://i.ibb.co/KrrsyJs/28.jpg

qwerty mvp

He wrote that sh** himself.

Originally posted by carver9
He wrote that sh** himself.

And the scans of Guy being grabbed through his fouce field?

Originally posted by carver9
He wrote that sh** himself.

Originally posted by carver9
He wrote that sh** himself.
No, it is a novelization of Death of Superman story( Philo actually posted one of pages from the novel in his Superman respect thread many years ago)

You can literally download it online by googling for just a minute

https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-death-and-life-of-superman-e194131379.html

Lol, reminds me of Aquaman stabbing Darkseid as fanart.

Originally posted by carver9
You changed your Sig to make it look like that happened. Good job Pr.

Carv, helllllloooooo? Did you even read my post?

Carter getting owned anyway.

Carver, hello!

Yall trippin and yes Dark, I read your post.

Originally posted by carver9
Yall trippin and yes Dark, I read your post.

Both sets of scans?

The space one on particular - Guy is clearly in space, clearly not drawn with any aura around him, clearly has his jacket grabbed - does he have shields on? Or are you arguing he, as a human, can survive in space with a leather jacket on?


https://i.postimg.cc/KYBtF9mr/vm-JV0-EI-d.webp
Answers please.

The writer didn't make it clear during his altercation with Doomsday that his shields were up. Doomsday going all out against Booster Gold not killing him and there's other showings. The characters in the entire run were weak AF. Superman getting the wind knocked out of him by pillars falling on him. Getting koed by an exploding gas station. Everyone in the book was operating at below Herakd levels.

Originally posted by carver9
The writer didn't make it clear during his altercation with Doomsday that his shields were up. Doomsday going all out against Booster Gold not killing him and there's other showings. The characters in the entire run were weak AF. Superman getting the wind knocked out of him by pillars falling on him. Getting koed by an exploding gas station. Everyone in the book was operating at below Herakd levels. How about classic Mangog? Asgardians were as weak humans getting koed from falling 10-20 feet down in the air, getting koed by falling off Mangog's back, etc

Does that mean Mangog was less than meta level?

Also DOS gets his feats before that run (timeline wise).

Originally posted by carver9
The writer didn't make it clear during his altercation with Doomsday that his shields were up. Doomsday going all out against Booster Gold not killing him and there's other showings. The characters in the entire run were weak AF. Superman getting the wind knocked out of him by pillars falling on him. Getting koed by an exploding gas station. Everyone in the book was operating at below Herakd levels.

Fail. Your precious Hulk was overpowered by a spear that barely put a dent into the dirt. Disproving the claims of its weight. Exploding gas station >>barely denting dirt.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, you're using the weakened DoS Doomsday from the start of the story? I guess the Hulks need whatever advantage you can give them, eh? Isn't that correct though? Genuine question, I took this thread to mean Doomsday when he first breaks free in DoS.

Originally posted by carver9
The writer didn't make it clear during his altercation with Doomsday that his shields were up. Doomsday going all out against Booster Gold not killing him and there's other showings. The characters in the entire run were weak AF. Superman getting the wind knocked out of him by pillars falling on him. Getting koed by an exploding gas station. Everyone in the book was operating at below Herakd levels.

The writer doesn't make it clear that his shields are up when he's in space either. Curiously, we all understand that for a human to survive, he must have shields up - I know comics are for kids sometimes, but SOME intelligence should apply.

So do you concede on Guy, a year after we had this exact convo?

On to your next points:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol where did I say he was a meta? I was poking fun at you, lmao. I was laughing at the notion that Guy without a ring is shrugging off bullets. But it is good that you finally acknowledged it.

Beetle and Booster? Simple. You are talking about early on in the fight, yes?

As the fight went on, Doomsday was getting stronger:

https://i.postimg.cc/5y2PwZB8/RCO080-1462958057.jpg

When he first met the JLA and beat them into a coma, he wasn't at the level he was at later when fighting Superman. Simples.

That's if we want to ignore comic PIS. Up to you. Either A: Doomsday is human level (Booster/Beetle), B: He was weaker then got stronger, or C: Comics have this all the time, with Spiderman for example taking punches from Colossus amped with Cytorrak and 20% of the Phoenix Force and Magik.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Pillars that were kicked by Doomsday. I mean, if Hulk punches Wolverine and all it does is break a few trees, is that a low showing for Wolverine (who has been in nukes)? Is it a low showing for Hulk? Or do we ignore the collateral damage, and say hey, Hulk is damn strong, and Logan is lucky that his HF is that uber?

I think you and I both agree that the third statement is true.


It's cumulative damage for Superman. Which was a consistent theme throughout the entire storyline. As time went on, Superman was increasingly damaged and hurt, whilst Doomsday was fresh as a daisy.

By the by, he was literally at the center of that explosion - the electrical line in the first panel is what provided the spark that caused the explosion.

I mean, what is your end point here?

You assert that DOS Doomsday is weak (meta tier) because the opposition he faced had low showings (Superman).

You also assert he was weak because...the opposition he faced had high showings (Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner).

I mean, which is it?

Originally posted by Smurph
Isn't that correct though? Genuine question, I took this thread to mean Doomsday when he first breaks free in DoS.

One arm tied behind his back, punches not even phasing Supes? I mean, THAT Doomsday was weak, I agree.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6690/2c9c7086a639787d815d9647a9820d08551622d6_hq.jpg

Iirc, that burial shroud Doomsday's wearing also blocked sunlight, and he'd just woken up from being buried underground for 150,000 years or something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
One arm tied behind his back, punches not even phasing Supes? I mean, THAT Doomsday was weak, I agree.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6690/2c9c7086a639787d815d9647a9820d08551622d6_hq.jpg

I should point out that by this point, aside from carter's lowballing(especially ignoring he's wrong on Guy), Doomsday had no sold Martian Manhunter (who may or may not have been amped by the Blood Gem), casually hurt him, and then casually simultaneously KOed him and Maxima by grabbing J'onn's leg and ragdolling him into Maxima with their heads colliding. So I guess that's the weak Doomsday.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Iirc, that burial shroud Doomsday's wearing also blocked sunlight, and he'd just woken up from being buried underground for 150,000 years or something.

Unless there was a retcon, Doomsday wasn't powered by sunlight the same way. Was a food source, not power source. Would be a starving Doomsday though, but not the same thing as a Kryptonian underground not exposed to sunlight.

And not sure if his burial shroud blocked or not, would be explained in later comics if it did.

Well no. My point is that I am using the Doomsday from the end of the story, not the beginning.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well no. My point is that I am using the Doomsday from the end of the story, not the beginning.

In regards to Maxima/MM, I was saying that's the "weak" Doomsday(since carter wants that.....probably left there the entire gauntlet).

If you mean him getting sunlight over time on getting stronger, far as I know it would just be him not starving and getting stronger not at least directly connected the same way as a Kryptonian getting more sunlight.

No way to debate against what I'm saying Saint, ESPECIALLY the Booster Gold showing. I'll debate this tomorrow.

Originally posted by carver9
No way to debate against what I'm saying Saint, ESPECIALLY the Booster Gold showing. I'll debate this tomorrow.

Well yeah as long as you pretend everything he said wasn't said, he has no way to debate you.

Originally posted by carver9
No way to debate against what I'm saying Saint, ESPECIALLY the Booster Gold showing. I'll debate this tomorrow.

I've been waiting for nearly 18 months for your reply, lmao.

Haven't forgotten about this thread.

Carver, hello!!

Originally posted by carver9
Haven't forgotten about this thread.

Just forgot to actually address any points against you?

Originally posted by carver9
He wrote that sh** himself.

bruh is a walking comedy

I'm still waiting

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm still waiting

Carter's In the bathroom. You'll wait awhile.

bmaXZD0tiXk

Hmmm. To then sucker kick Superman like that, could be a speed feat....

Not really, it wasn’t as if Superman was actively dodging the kick.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not really, it wasn’t as if Superman was actively dodging the kick.

Lol wasn't sure I had to spell it out....

But I meant a speed feat for Doomsday lol.

Superman stood there thinking that he could take anything that Doomsday could dish, until he quickly found out that he couldn’t. It wasn’t a speed feat for Doomsday, because Superman was not actively attempting to dodge. I was fully aware of what you meant. Seems as if you are the one that was left in the dark.

In other words, the slowest character could have hit him, as he had no intention of moving.

Originally posted by Stoic
Superman stood there as thinking that he could take anything that Doomsday could dish, until he quickly found out that he couldn’t. It wasn’t a speed feat for Doomsday, because Superman was not actively attempting to dodge. I was fully aware of what you meant. Seems as if you are the one that was left in the dark.

So he managed to take Superman by surprise. Outreact Superman. Blitz him with a kick. Before Superman could react to the kick, Doomsday managed to land a full kick on him.

Hmm. Who else can do it? Can Penguin do it? Alfred? How fast does one need to be to take Superman by surprise and kick him?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Try kicking/punching something 1/2 as hard as you can.

Then try doing the same, now as hard as you can. Max effort, full strength.

When you do so, was your foot/fist travelling faster than normal, or slower? I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that a more powerful punch/kick is inherently faster?

Because a jab is faster than a haymaker and definitely weaker...

Originally posted by ODG
I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that a more powerful punch/kick is inherently faster?

Because a jab is faster than a haymaker and definitely weaker...

All powerful punches are fast. Not all fast punches are powerful.

^ I'm not exactly a white knight. But the ad hominem is unnecessary. If you ever learned how to punch you would understand that one of the most important things is not the speed, nor the power, but the aim.

And you aim 3-6 inches beyond contact.

If you throw your strongest straight at someone's jaw, there's a huge difference between aiming shallow right where you expect to meet the jaw and aiming 3-6 inches past their jaw. Follow through. This shouldn't be a foreign concept as it applies to most sports like baseball, golf, soccer and not just fighting.

And this vapid discussion has little to do with Doomsday's combat superspeed or lack thereof.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I'm not exactly a white knight. But the ad hominem is unnecessary. If you ever learned how to punch you would understand that one of the most important things is not the speed, nor the power, but the aim.

And you aim 3-6 inches beyond contact.

If you throw your strongest straight at someone's jaw, there's a huge difference between aiming shallow right where you expect to meet the jaw and aiming 3-6 inches past their jaw. Follow through. This shouldn't be a foreign concept as it applies to most sports like baseball, golf, soccer and not just fighting.

And this vapid discussion has little to do with Doomsday's combat superspeed or lack thereof.

O....k?

I'm not saying it's the most important thing though

The faster you(or your hits, in this topic) the more momentum you gain, hence, the harder you can hit

There are differences in details, such as you need extra moves to increase your hits speed in traveling, hence the difference in jab and haymaker. Or you can hit the weaker points, therefore, aiming different parts in body can have various results

But the principle is still there( the faster you go, the more momentum you gain, hence, the harder you can hit).
A faster jab is more powerful than a slower jab, a faster haymaker is more powerful than a slower one, and so on

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
One arm tied behind his back, punches not even phasing Supes? I mean, THAT Doomsday was weak, I agree.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6690/2c9c7086a639787d815d9647a9820d08551622d6_hq.jpg

Iirc, that burial shroud Doomsday's wearing also blocked sunlight, and he'd just woken up from being buried underground for 150,000 years or something. Could also be a case of Doomsday subconsciously holding back to an extent. He'd never fought anyone with Superman's level of strength/durability beforehand, so he may have went in thinking that Supes was just like the countless run-of-the-mill feebs he'd encountered previously. Hence why DD's first strike was no-sold, but his later strikes visibly affected Superman(and I'm not even factoring in the "dynamic strength" thing here.)

Like if I went my whole life owning droves of 3 year olds with ease and didn't think there was anyone stronger out there, I'd probably attack a fully grown man with the same level of force that was usually adequate to own said toddlers... But once I saw that he was clearly stronger than a 3 year old, I'd be like "oh shit, I have to hit this guy harder." /shrug

"Ex-firefighter massacring toddlers in broad daylight."

Not massacring per se, just... Pacifying.

Hmmm a holding back Doomsday.....that would go a long way too to explain how the others didn't die.

I can accept that.

"Powerful" is a subjective term. Yes, the foes Doomsday had faced beforehand were "powerful" by your typical metric -- but in comparison to DD, they were all insignificant feebs. Superman, however, was an anomaly... Doomsday had never faced anyone that powerful before.

My only point is that if DD had gone his entire life owning people with, say, 50% of his max power(as an arbitrary number), and had no idea that anyone stronger existed, then it would make sense for him to attack Superman with that same level of power initially... But once he saw that Superman was more than the rest, he logically would have stepped it up accordingly.

Originally posted by Delta1938

Unless there was a retcon, Doomsday wasn't powered by sunlight the same way. Was a food source, not power source. Would be a starving Doomsday though, but not the same thing as a Kryptonian underground not exposed to sunlight.

And not sure if his burial shroud blocked or not, would be explained in later comics if it did. A bit weird in the way its worded, saying he's "nourished by solar energy" I could see why someone would think that. But Superman is sustained by only sunlight in the same way. Superman doesn't need water, food, air or sleep.

Also, Doomsday is a creature of Krypton that's been hyper-evolved.

Every creature we've seen from Krypton come to Earth is powered up by solar energy. From people, to dogs and cats, and even other wildlife like dragon-like creatures.

I haven't seen anything to say he's an exception to the rule, especially when noted that he's nourished by in the same way as other Kyrptonians.

Of course, he also doesn't seem limited to yellow sun either. But that could be product of his hyper-evolution of Kryptonian genes.

Originally posted by Galan007
"Powerful" is a subjective term. Yes, the foes Doomsday had faced beforehand were "powerful" by your typical metric -- but in comparison to DD, they were all insignificant feebs. Superman, however, was an anomaly... Doomsday had never faced anyone that powerful before.

My only point is that if DD had gone his entire life owning people with, say, 50% of his max power(as an arbitrary number), and had no idea that anyone stronger existed, then it would make sense for him to attack Superman with that same level of power initially... But once he saw that Superman was more than the rest, he logically would have stepped it up accordingly.

Ok, makes sense to me.

Originally posted by carver9
No way to debate against what I'm saying Saint, ESPECIALLY the Booster Gold showing. I'll debate this tomorrow.

When will this happen

Carver will "debate"

Alright, I'm late but late is better than not posting at all. Everything I mention here is facts and can not be ignored. It's proof that the characters along with Doomsday is weak AF in DOS and everything is based off hype along with ignoring what was displayed in the comic which DarkSaint85 usual don't do except in this case. The only thing we have as evidence of DOS characters being powerful is a hyperbole statement done years after the original comic release. Anyways...

We get one official statement on how fast Doomsday is, a non holding back Doomsday and he's slow AF. He is below the speed of sound and this is his speed ft AFTER Superman was unable to catch him, Superman complimenting his speed, the Justice League saying he is fast, etc...

https://ibb.co/w4FmCW8

Even at speeds below the speed of sound, Superman couldn't even catch him. Superman heard a child screaming and had to make a decision on if he should help the child or catch Doomsday before he reached the city. Even at half the speed of light, hell, a fraction of that, Superman should have been capable of grabbing Doomsday, throwing him away from pedestrians, save the child and get back into the fight again...

https://ibb.co/zbZdMTh

And Booster Gold was able to react to him as well...

https://ibb.co/9cdXNmt

And it's funny Dark throws up Superman withstanding a punch by Doomsday but moments after that getting the wind kicked out of him. Let me guess, Dark is going to mention "Doomsday was getting stronger". This makes your argument even worse because Doomsday took out the league right after that and a Booster Gold with no shield withstood a beating from a non-holding back Doomsday...

https://ibb.co/PQgHdwF

And let's not forget this. Pages before Superman got the wind kicked out of him, this happened. Blue Beetle survived a beating from an all out Doomsday that had just finished koing Martian Manhunter and Maxima (and kicked the wind out of Supes)...

https://ibb.co/vByXd9V

So what do we have so far? A shieldless Booster withstanding an all out Doomsday attack. Blue Beetle surviving Doomsday all out attack. Doomsday moving while going all out at under the speed of sound. Superman failing to catch him at those speeds pages after. Let's continue. Superman durability in DOS was trash. We all remember the gas station explosion scene...

https://ibb.co/k952qWV

Also got koed by some pillars falling on him...

https://ibb.co/wJtPXws
https://ibb.co/b2FPKTY

Got koed again by some pillars being kicked at him (that a meta level character survived)...

https://ibb.co/BChWg3p

Superman was terrified of Doomsday reaching Metropolis and only had enough strength to hurl Doomsday a few 100 miles and admitted he probably weighed a ton

https://ibb.co/MsFykqQ
https://ibb.co/sQHvBDw

Conclusion. Based off speed and strength fts from ALL characters in that story, Doomsday overall wasn't impressive. His speed fts during the time he fought Superman was well below the speed of sound and even before that, Superman failed to catch him while he was jumping. Superman durability throughout the run is questionable along with his strength. The entire book was full of metas. Superman after DOS is a great character but DOS did not portray these weak ass characters right.

Originally posted by carver9
Alright, I'm late but late is better than not posting at all. Everything I mention here is facts and can not be ignored.

Literally got that far before I started laughing.

Just rude

Originally posted by -Pr-
Literally got that far before I started laughing. it reads like the intro to a conspiracy theory

Originally posted by carver9
Alright, I'm late but late is better than not posting at all. Everything I mention here is facts and can not be ignored. It's proof that the characters along with Doomsday is weak AF in DOS and everything is based off hype along with ignoring what was displayed in the comic which DarkSaint85 usual don't do except in this case. The only thing we have as evidence of DOS characters being powerful is a hyperbole statement done years after the original comic release. Anyways...

We get one official statement on how fast Doomsday is, a non holding back Doomsday and he's slow AF. He is below the speed of sound and this is his speed ft AFTER Superman was unable to catch him, Superman complimenting his speed, the Justice League saying he is fast, etc...

https://ibb.co/w4FmCW8

Even at speeds below the speed of sound, Superman couldn't even catch him. Superman heard a child screaming and had to make a decision on if he should help the child or catch Doomsday before he reached the city. Even at half the speed of light, hell, a fraction of that, Superman should have been capable of grabbing Doomsday, throwing him away from pedestrians, save the child and get back into the fight again...

https://ibb.co/zbZdMTh

And Booster Gold was able to react to him as well...

https://ibb.co/9cdXNmt

And it's funny Dark throws up Superman withstanding a punch by Doomsday but moments after that getting the wind kicked out of him. Let me guess, Dark is going to mention "Doomsday was getting stronger". This makes your argument even worse because Doomsday took out the league right after that and a Booster Gold with no shield withstood a beating from a non-holding back Doomsday...

https://ibb.co/PQgHdwF

And let's not forget this. Pages before Superman got the wind kicked out of him, this happened. Blue Beetle survived a beating from an all out Doomsday that had just finished koing Martian Manhunter and Maxima (and kicked the wind out of Supes)...

https://ibb.co/vByXd9V

So what do we have so far? A shieldless Booster withstanding an all out Doomsday attack. Blue Beetle surviving Doomsday all out attack. Doomsday moving while going all out at under the speed of sound. Superman failing to catch him at those speeds pages after. Let's continue. Superman durability in DOS was trash. We all remember the gas station explosion scene...

https://ibb.co/k952qWV

Also got koed by some pillars falling on him...

https://ibb.co/wJtPXws
https://ibb.co/b2FPKTY

Got koed again by some pillars being kicked at him (that a meta level character survived)...

https://ibb.co/BChWg3p

Superman was terrified of Doomsday reaching Metropolis and only had enough strength to hurl Doomsday a few 100 miles and admitted he probably weighed a ton

https://ibb.co/MsFykqQ
https://ibb.co/sQHvBDw

Conclusion. Based off speed and strength fts from ALL characters in that story, Doomsday overall wasn't impressive. His speed fts during the time he fought Superman was well below the speed of sound and even before that, Superman failed to catch him while he was jumping. Superman durability throughout the run is questionable along with his strength. The entire book was full of metas. Superman after DOS is a great character but DOS did not portray these weak ass characters right.
Who did you copy paste this stuff from?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who did you copy paste this stuff from?

My gallery. Now be quiet...

https://ibb.co/8MgYNCN
https://ibb.co/M7d2RYM

Originally posted by carver9
Just rude

Some people mistake honesty for rudeness.

Originally posted by Smurph
it reads like the intro to a conspiracy theory



Originally posted by carver9
My gallery. Now be quiet...

https://ibb.co/8MgYNCN
https://ibb.co/M7d2RYM

I love that you call it all Trash.

Carver's gonna say "wake up sheeple!" 😤


I'm not following this thread and I don't know what the argument is about. I just think the "Everything I mention here is facts and can not be ignored" is gold.

https://i.ibb.co/zXD5y3T/4-1.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
My gallery. Now be quiet...

https://ibb.co/8MgYNCN
https://ibb.co/M7d2RYM
I really, really doubt it.

Originally posted by Smurph
Carver's gonna say "wake up sheeple!" 😤


I'm not following this thread and I don't know what the argument is about. I just think the "Everything I mention here is facts and can not be ignored" is gold.
Its more like "Wake up prpeeple"

AlbertoJohnCarver

https://i.ibb.co/st1mty8/africanus.png

The chicken was uncalled for. I'd replace it with a face mask....

🤦🏿

Carver, did you even read my post?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Pillars that were kicked by Doomsday. I mean, if Hulk punches Wolverine and all it does is break a few trees, is that a low showing for Wolverine (who has been in nukes)? Is it a low showing for Hulk? Or do we ignore the collateral damage, and say hey, Hulk is damn strong, and Logan is lucky that his HF is that uber?

I think you and I both agree that the third statement is true.


It's cumulative damage for Superman. Which was a consistent theme throughout the entire storyline. As time went on, Superman was increasingly damaged and hurt, whilst Doomsday was fresh as a daisy.

By the by, he was literally at the center of that explosion - the electrical line in the first panel is what provided the spark that caused the explosion.

I mean, what is your end point here?

You assert that DOS Doomsday is weak (meta tier) because the opposition he faced had low showings (Superman).

You also assert he was weak because...the opposition he faced had high showings (Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner).

I mean, which is it?

Thanks for taking the time to type all that and get all those scans......but all that text was already addressed by me. I asked a question, see my post that I quote AGAIN. You also keep bringing the pillars up, but:

https://i.postimg.cc/Ss3TCYYL/RCO111-1462958057.jpg

Superman was already weakened before the pillars hit him, thanks to the fighting. He can't even see straight, couldn't even fly. So yeah, let's see a meta who has lost their most basic of powers, who can't even see properly, survive pillars kicked by Doomsday. If Hulk kicks Logan through some trees, does that mean Hulk is weak because he can only kick a 500lb midget a short distance away? Does that mean Logan has a shitty HF? No.

With regards to your speed argument - where does it say Doomsday is going all out?

With regards to your durability argument, apart from my question above (which you keep ignoring) - don't human level characters survive herald level attacks all the time?

In fact, did I not post multiple examples for you?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here is Daredevil, point blank, against Pyro:
https://i.imgur.com/eaqxMCx.png

KOd, but no burns (look at the area around his mouth).

Here is Nightwing being smashed through concrete walls by Donna Troy, no armour, and he's fine, still backflipping:
https://i.imgur.com/CYSCziD.jpg

Here is Nightwing with armour, taking a point blank punch from Osiris (empowered by Black Adam, remember):
https://i.imgur.com/ajaDhG8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GK0HFIi.jpg

I can do this all day.

I mean, here is Blue Beetle when he met Kingdom Come WW:

https://i.postimg.cc/C524bdLV/RCO012-1480926961.jpg

She grabs him by the throat and throws him at a boulder. He gets up, fine.


Superman does not exist in reality. Dan Jurgens does. I mean, what statements WOULD you accept? Booster said DD was faster than Flash - you never accepted that. Name a 'human' level character in comics, and I will try to find examples of them against 'heralds', or against damage.

I mean, here is frickin' PENGUIN being smashed through bathroom tiles, no blood, no injury:

https://i.gyazo.com/2012cc6c64def21d6b470a643f553f6d.png

My point being, 'humans' in comics survive things that no humans IRL can take. Them being damaged at all, in fact, shows extreme power.

Quite why this is all new to you after your entire reading history, is mysterious to me.

I mean, just a couple days ago you pointed out that in comics, the distance one is thrown means nothing to the damage suffered, right?

In short, a powerless Blue Beetle surviving Doomsday, is the same as that same powerless Blue Beetle surviving WW - PIS. Same way Daredevil isn't even singed from Pyro. Same way Nightwing isn't dazed from Osiris (who BA gave his power to). Same way Penguin is smashing ceramic tiles with his head and is laughing without a scratch. Name a human level comic character, and chances are they've survived things no human or even meta can - PIS.

Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.

Also, yes, there are instances of human surviving attacks they shouldn't but Doomsday entire run is him being weak AF. Also, lol at him holding back. He started off as soon as he was released from his prison choking a dear to death, killing a bird, killing people and killing a man in a diesel. There's absolutely no evidence of Doomsday holding back and that statement is laughable. You countered nothing I've said including his lame a** speed showings. Doomsday never held back. He's a wreckless animal. He doesn't know how to.

Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.

So Superman was wasted but not weakened?

And for "before this, he(Superman) was fine" assertion

This is just wearing me down
https://ibb.co/t3Jc037

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So Superman was wasted but not weakened?

And for "before this, he(Superman) was fine" assertion

This is just wearing me down
https://ibb.co/t3Jc037

Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument. Let's say he was weakened and the pillars knocked him out. Moments after this he was enduring Doomsday punches. Moments before this he withstood Doomsday punches while getting knocked out by a gas station explosion. All this means is environmental attacks like minor explosions and bricks are>>>Doomsday attacks since they caused far more damage than Doomsday did. Doomsday punches on Superman throughout the entire run didn't drop him once whereas the things mentioned in this post did.

Also, a Herald at half power, heck, even Thing should be able to endure pillars falling on them. Hell, Wolverine have withstood more than that. Spiderman has. How weakened was Superman and please don't go to low because it wouldn't help the look of Doomsday power level, at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument.
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wasted


https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/wearing+down

Originally posted by carver9
Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument. Let's say he was weakened and the pillars knocked him out. Moments after this he was enduring Doomsday punches. Moments before this he withstood Doomsday punches while getting knocked out by a gas station explosion. All this means is environmental attacks like minor explosions and bricks are>>>Doomsday attacks since they caused far more damage than Doomsday did. Doomsday punches on Superman throughout the entire run didn't drop him once whereas the things mentioned in this post did.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, a Herald at half power, heck, even Thing should be able to endure pillars falling on them. Hell, Wolverine have withstood more than that. Spiderman has. How weakened was Superman and please don't go to low because it wouldn't help the look of Doomsday power level, at all.

So we agree that Superman was weakened and not fine at all? Even before the scan DS posted?

Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.

Also, yes, there are instances of human surviving attacks they shouldn't but Doomsday entire run is him being weak AF. Also, lol at him holding back. He started off as soon as he was released from his prison choking a dear to death, killing a bird, killing people and killing a man in a diesel. There's absolutely no evidence of Doomsday holding back and that statement is laughable. You countered nothing I've said including his lame a** speed showings. Doomsday never held back. He's a wreckless animal. He doesn't know how to.

Why didn't you fly out of it?

Guardian is literally asking him why did he take all those hits when the pillars collapsed.

Superman's answer? He needed to rest. He was too wasted to fly out. He couldn't even see properly.

Why do you say Superman was fine before this?

20 pages earlier, he was already nearing his limit@
https://i.postimg.cc/hvD0WkRZ/RCO089-1462958057.jpg

10 pages earlier, he was already dazed:
https://i.postimg.cc/90LYWLWm/RCO103-1462958057.jpg

He even mentions how he's getting punchy, i.e. punch drunk:
https://i.postimg.cc/pTYBS24n/RCO108-1462958057.jpg

And just before?

https://i.postimg.cc/VsgRBkXx/RCO109-1462958057.jpg

He's getting worn down by the fighting. Meanwhile, Doomsday is laughing his head off.

So no, he wasn't 'fine', lol. Then his dynamic strength kicked in, and he later kills Doomsday (or KOs him, whatever).

Now, the holding back - that's Galan. You want to argue against it, be my guest.

I said he was not as strong as later. He was still covered up in the burial robes, he had just woken up from his coma, so he wasn't at 100%. If he is holding back, it isn't conscious - I am saying he just isn't jumping at full speed, because he isn't at full power yet.

It's like using this showing for Hulk:
https://i.postimg.cc/v1HxkdxW/RCO023-1478489548.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Hrt76LnY/RCO024-w-1478489548.jpg

That clocks Hulk's jumping at ~450mph.

Carver, your arguments are....OK. Let's turn this around, maybe you will understand it better if I use Hulk?

You know it. WBH and a nearby pickup truck:
https://i.postimg.cc/sxF2CxbV/RCO020-1469401173-1.jpg

Hulk is NOT holding back here, btw. Explicitly thinks he is still in the Dark Dimension, AND he's fighting 3 other amped Hulk beings.

So should I SERIOUSLY, say that WBH only outputs < pickup truck level energy? That's like Low Meta level power. Hell, it might even be High Street level. Rappacini is a normal human woman there, she isn't even tanned by all that energy, despite standing NEXT to an amped WBH. If a normal woman can stand there, and her eyebrows aren't even singed....Wolverine would tank that laughing. Spiderman, too. Hell, even Aunt May could be there and she'd be OK.

Is that valid?

Of course not. IT IS PIS that the truck was unharmed, that Rappacini was OK. You know this, I know this, we all know this. WBH is NOT that weak, that pickup truck isn't Abstract level. 10,000,000% agree with you.

I mean, again, what is your point?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So we agree that Superman was weakened and not fine at all? Even before the scan DS posted?

No!!!

Originally posted by carver9
No!!!
So what are your interpretations of the words "wasted" and "wearing me down"

Dark, explain to me what page his dynamic strength kicked in and why it wasn't a weakened Superman that killed Doomsday? This seems to match everything else that went on in the story. I'll reply to the rest of your post shortly.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So what are your interpretations of the words "wasted" and "wearing me down"

He wasn't wasted or weakened because he lived from this moments later. The same Doomsday Dark said was getting stronger.

https://ibb.co/8PQRVps

So either Superman was lying or Doomsday is weak AF.

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, explain to me what page his dynamic strength kicked in and why it wasn't a weakened Superman that killed Doomsday?
Superman was tapping the powers that he never had used/accessed before

https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/RogerSternNovelisation.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't wasted or weakened because he lived from this moments later. The same Doomsday Dark said was getting stronger.

https://ibb.co/8PQRVps

So either Superman was lying or Doomsday is weak AF.
I guess you think Superman also lied about Kryptonite and red sun energy since he lived/recovered after encountering them

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, explain to me what page his dynamic strength kicked in and why it wasn't a weakened Superman that killed Doomsday? This seems to match everything else that went on in the story. I'll reply to the rest of your post shortly.

Well. Since you keep harping on with the 'minor' gas station explosion...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Aren't you the one who argued a day or so ago, that Wolverine being kicked through some trees doesn't mean anything about the damage caused?

So why would Superman being hit by those pillars mean anything? I do like that you are ignoring he was pretty hurt even before they met those pillars (whilst DD is laughing at him):

https://i.postimg.cc/s1dCwjwt/RCO109-1462958057.jpg

And conveniently ignore the later explosion:
https://i.postimg.cc/crDs9qKw/RCO123-w-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/75dq4gnL/RCO124-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yDk72f95/RCO126-1462958057.jpg

Where he was still conscious and holding on. A bit larger than a gas station, no?

Strange how a smaller explosion KOs him, but a much larger one doesn't, even after he's been fighting and been beaten up.

How do you explain that?

As for how it wasn't a weakened Supes:

https://i.postimg.cc/LnGMGkqv/RCO138-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/HJg1kp9y/RCO143-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/JsJW8yZ8/RCO150-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/2V1DH95V/RCO152-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FdFt0DqF/RCO154-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Lq3Kqrx0/RCO156-1462958057.jpg

I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?

My take - he was dying, then dynamically ramped his strength up for the final blow to kill him. So he was weaker - until he wasn't and ramped all the way back up.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Superman was tapping the powers that he never had used/accessed before

https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/RogerSternNovelisation.jpg

So he tapped into his energy 'reserves' to give his weakened body more strength? This also mentions Doomsday getting weaker. So Superman killed a weakened Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
So he tapped into his energy 'reserves' to give his weakened body more strength? Thus also mentions Doomsday getting weaker. So Superman killed a weakened Doomsday.
Doomsday was weakened because Superman was hurting him......which is basically the whole point of Superman going into his Super-Kryptonian mode. Because then, he finally managed to hurt/weaken Doomsday

https://ibb.co/RDy53s4

Bump.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well. Since you keep harping on with the 'minor' gas station explosion...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Aren't you the one who argued a day or so ago, that Wolverine being kicked through some trees doesn't mean anything about the damage caused?

So why would Superman being hit by those pillars mean anything? I do like that you are ignoring he was pretty hurt even before they met those pillars (whilst DD is laughing at him):

https://i.postimg.cc/s1dCwjwt/RCO109-1462958057.jpg

And conveniently ignore the later explosion:
https://i.postimg.cc/crDs9qKw/RCO123-w-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/75dq4gnL/RCO124-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yDk72f95/RCO126-1462958057.jpg

Where he was still conscious and holding on. A bit larger than a gas station, no?


Strange how a smaller explosion KOs him, but a much larger one doesn't, even after he's been fighting and been beaten up.

How do you explain that?

As for how it wasn't a weakened Supes:

https://i.postimg.cc/LnGMGkqv/RCO138-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/HJg1kp9y/RCO143-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/JsJW8yZ8/RCO150-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/2V1DH95V/RCO152-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FdFt0DqF/RCO154-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Lq3Kqrx0/RCO156-1462958057.jpg

I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?

My take - he was dying, then dynamically ramped his strength up for the final blow to kill him. So he was weaker - until he wasn't and ramped all the way back up.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Doomsday was weakened because Superman was hurting him......which is basically the whole point of Superman going into his Super-Kryptonian mode. Because then, he finally managed to hurt/weaken Doomsday

https://ibb.co/RDy53s4

It's not a super kryptonian mode. He used his energy reserves to give his weakened, damaged body more strength. This doesn't mean he was more powerful than before, he just got a adrenaline boost to give him enough strength to take out a weakened character. Any character in a prolong fight with an equal would weakened and it happened to Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not a super kryptonian mode. He used his energy reserves to give his weakened, damaged body more strength. This doesn't mean he was more powerful than before, he just got a adrenaline boost to give him enough strength to take out a weakened character. Any character in a prolong fight with an equal would weakened and it happened to Doomsday.

So why did a gas station take Superman out earlier, but now, a more powerful explosion didn't? And then after, a whole series of explosions PLUS with a stomach wound etc didn't take him out?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So why did a gas station take Superman out earlier, but now, a more powerful explosion didn't? And then after, a whole series of explosions PLUS with a stomach wound etc didn't take him out?

Superman wasn't hit by that explosion. It doesn't even show him being hit by the attack.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not a super kryptonian mode. He used his energy reserves to give his weakened, damaged body more strength. This doesn't mean he was more powerful before, he just got a adrenaline boost to give him enough strength to take out a weakened character. Any character in a prolong fight with an equal would weakened and it happened to Doomsday.
Superman's powers are always dependant on his brain, we have the discussion over and over again on this forum



https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations1.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations2.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations3.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations4.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations5.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations6.jpg

As for Doomsday was weakened by prolong fight

One of Doomsday's abilities
"indefatigable(never becoming tired)"
https://ibb.co/2Swcjjj

Originally posted by carver9
Superman wasn't hit by that explosion. It doesn't even show him being hit by the attack.



First, ask yourself - how did the explosion occur?

Answer: it was caused by a spark from an electrical line. That Doomsday's foot caused:

https://i.postimg.cc/JDzgstDG/RCO122-1462958057.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/mtHnzvDN/RCO123-w-1462958057-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/CdttKhFx/RCO124-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/jw31PKPv/RCO126-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Z002ZBzQ/RCO130-1462958057.jpg

Check that second scan out. I have circled Doomsday and Supes in blue.

They were at ground zero, and the explosion blew them upwards and out.

Check the 5th scan out. Explosions, all around him. Another one hits him as he shields the puny humans.

Yeah, he was hit, multiple times, by multiple explosions, after getting stabbed in the gut etc.

But 60 pages earlier, when he was much fresher, he was.....KOd by a 'minor' gas station explosion. Explain.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Superman's powers are always dependant on his brain, we have the discussion over and over again on this forum



https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations1.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations2.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations3.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations4.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations5.jpg
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/MentalRegulations6.jpg

As for Doomsday was weakened by prolong fight

One of Doomsday's abilities
"indefatigable(never becoming tired)"
https://ibb.co/2Swcjjj

Who said anything about Superman abilities? I'm saying, in this instance, he sug into his reserves for a boost to help his broken body fight Doomsday.

Why are you posting Doomsday abilities when in the scan you posted, it mentioned him weakening which was obviously due to fighting Superman for so long?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


First, ask yourself - how did the explosion occur?

Answer: it was caused by a spark from an electrical line. That Doomsday's foot caused:

https://i.postimg.cc/JDzgstDG/RCO122-1462958057.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/mtHnzvDN/RCO123-w-1462958057-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/CdttKhFx/RCO124-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/jw31PKPv/RCO126-1462958057.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Z002ZBzQ/RCO130-1462958057.jpg

Check that second scan out. I have circled Doomsday and Supes in blue.

They were at ground zero, and the explosion blew them upwards and out.

Check the 5th scan out. Explosions, all around him. Another one hits him as he shields the puny humans.

Yeah, he was hit, multiple times, by multiple explosions, after getting stabbed in the gut etc.

But 60 pages earlier, when he was much fresher, he was.....KOd by a 'minor' gas station explosion. Explain.

The second scan shows them flying outside of the explosion. If they were ground zero, we wouldn't have seen them at all. Their bodies would've been engulfed by the explosion.

5th scan is him withstanding flames from the explosion, not the explosion. His body would t have been able to cover the humans if it was explosions hitting them.

Originally posted by carver9
The second scan shows them flying outside of the explosion. If they were ground zero, we wouldn't have seen them at all.

5th scan is him withstanding flames from the explosion, not the explosion. His body would t have been able to cover the humans if it was explosions hitting them.

How is he outside...when he's still in the explosion

Here, I have added a blue arrow to show there's still 'explosion' above him, lol:

https://i.postimg.cc/L59GCQC2/RCO123-w-1462958057-1.jpg

Or are you saying Doomsday caused a spark, Superman had superfast reactions and outraced the explosion, but at the same time, didn't (because the explosion was still above him)?

Interesting. This is getting better and better. I was also unaware that flames made explosive noises like BRA-DOOM!

Originally posted by carver9
Who said anything about Superman abilities? I'm saying, in this instance, he sug into his reserves for a boost to help his broken body fight Doomsday.

Why are you posting Doomsday abilities when in the scan you posted, it mentioned him weakening which was obviously due to fighting Superman for so long?
Because his energy can boost his powers?

The scan I posted it was meant to describe the scene of Superman hurting Doomsday, which, if you read it the description and you will understand that





https://ibb.co/RDy53s4

To Carver's post a couple pages back:

Regarding Doomsday's speed you referenced:
He's cited at moving half the speed of sound by *some* observer, but, we *see* Doomsday cover a distance of some 50 miles from a Metropolis mile marker to the skyline of the city in the span it takes that same obverver to finish two sentences even though it ought have taken Doomsday between 7 to 8 minutes to cover that distance moving at half the speed of sound.
In any case this is long distance travel speed, not combat... There's also nothing to indicate this is Doomsday's maximum effort, you simply drew your own conclusion there.

"Even at speeds below the speed of sound, Superman couldn't even catch him."

You don't know that Doomsday was hopping at the same speed in the fighting as he was stated to be when bounding towards Metropolis, he could have been moving faster... You don't even know if the stated speed is accurate and reliable as the announced half/sound speed is contradicted by the on panel presentation demonstrating Doomsday was moving much faster than that... And... Superman *did* catch him, with an overhand at the start of the next issue... O o Superman *also* states/thinks "I hear you kid I just thought one of the Leaguers might be able to..." So whatever you think Superman should have done or could have done in that situation is irrelevent. You drew your own conclusions about Doomsday's speed cap based off a single contradicted statement then tried to apply that in reverse...

*** During this same event, Superman casually flies from Washington D.C. to Ohio in something like 10-15 seconds when he arrives on the scene... 330 miles... Or about 103x the speed of sound... This has more merit compared to Doomsday's speed worth discussion than a single statement that was visually contradicted as soon as it was made...


"And Booster Gold was able to react to him as well."
Booster Gold "reacted" to Doomsday trudging towards him from ten feet away, not sprinting, not lunging, and even then Booster, barely pulled it off... What Booster didn't react to? Anything immediately following Superman getting kicked through the house getting his head slammed into a tree, Doomsday rushing the League from a smoke cloud, or anything following getting caught by the neck... The only reason people ever put Flash and Doomsday in the same sentence before Doomsday Wars is because Booster made the comparison.

"And it's funny Dark throws up Superman withstanding a punch by Doomsday but moments after that getting the wind kicked out of him"
A side thrust kick is factually *far* more powerful a combat technique than a lazy gut punch *inside bondage restraints restricting upper body movement*. The average combat competitor trains taking uppercuts to the gut, but not side thrust kicks, because one of those can reasonably be done and the other is asking for injury. Beyond that, posters here already explored the idea that Doomsday was just taking it casual until he saw Supes take a punch of his; This seems like a reasonable suggestion.
*Beyond that*, Byrne's Superman is a character that explores the aspects of having mentality driven limiters and limit breakers depending on his mind and mood.

You keep insisting Doomsday was not holding back, but Idk if that's true... Like, I don't think he was totally taking it easy on the Leaguers but I do think he was playing. He could have killed Gardner and he drops him, he could have killed Beetle and he tosses him away. Twice he could have finished Supes and he walked. The entire fight he's laughing his ass off. Booster either has an insanely "pis" driven moment there, or Dooms was playing games because it gave him joy and Blue Beetle almost bit it. Either way, Idk how you can reference Booster Gold as some sort of bar here.

"Superman durability in DOS was trash."
Read the fight again...
-Superman begins the event shrugging off weapons from Warworld without a literal scratch (didn't even dust his boots for television).
-The Doomsday gut kick is an "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment right off the bat.
-In the energy blast sequence,Supes pours on the heat vision so long that everyone else either runs out of juice or fades from exhaustion in the effort with heat vision being one of Superman's more taxing abilites (something that comes up against the Doomsday clone army years later where he unloads his beams and gets winded)...
- "Is it possible this guy's getting stronger" comes up *after* the "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment.
Supes-"Maxima/hit him with everything you've got!"/Gets tagged flush in the face.
Supes (immediately after that)- "I don't know how much longer I can keep this up"

............Then the gas station blows.........

It wasn't just some random one off moment where Supes got caught in an explosion and went out, he was already taking heavyweight punches and went heavy in the paint with one of his more taxing abilities, all before that ever happened.

The pillars....
Before the pillars:
Supes-"This is... Insane! I'd swear the harder I fight... the more Doomsday like it!
Supes-"Gotta pull myself together. Got to end this."
Supes-"I must be getting punchy!"
Supes-"This *unngh* is not *ow* getting any easier! Just hitting Doomsday hurts... And he doesn't seem to have weakened... One Iota!
Supes-"This is... Just wearing me down. Got to... Change my tactics."
Guardian- "You took some terrible hits in the collapse--- why didn't you fly out of it?"/ Supes-"Too wasted."

I don't see how you could read this story and somehow come to the conclusion that it was giant steel hard superstructures alone that knocked Supes out and not the accumulative effect of the fight itself even though that's what was established.

"Superman was terrified of Doomsday reaching Metropolis and only had enough strength to hurl Doomsday a few 100 miles and admitted he probably weighed a ton"

That's not what happened.. Superman said he needed to keep Doomsday off balance and stay out of his reach, then said he threw doomsday "at a few hundred miles per hour" into some hills in an attempt to "soften him up." It was an intential strategy, it was reference to speed and at no point does Supes say he only had enough strength for that alone... His assertion that Doomsday weighs close to a ton is just a random aside trivia fact thrown in.

"Doomsday overall wasn't impressive"

That is your opinion... Here's some others:
Supes- "Lobo's power, his rage, doesn't begin to compare to Doomsday's!"
Gardner-"So fast I didn't even see him mo..."
Bloodwynd/Manhunter-"Gods! What manner of creature can withstand such a blow?"
Booster-"He's... Faster than... Flash!"
Gardner-"There's no way Doomsday can still be standing/Supes-"Incredible! He took all that energy without missing a beat!"
**Narration- "Darkseid experiences the very first twinge of fear in his life."
**Narration- "The monster disarmed and slew hundreds of Green Lanterns and left a thousand more wounded and drifting across the vastness of space. The Corps would not know another such defeat for hundreds of Millenia."

Idc about the thread, but there's a lot of interpretation happening here that's either way off base or reeks of bad faith... Hulk got choked out by a snake, and a werewolf, and come coils, so he must be "trash" but Idk that's how these discussions are meant to be had... You can reasonably discern how impressive Doomsday is and was when it's referenced years later over and over again to drive that point home, you can reasonably discern, or you can choose not to.

"I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?"

Given how Byrne interpreted his version of Supes' powers to be not unlike Marvel's Gladiator, it's possible if not probable.

The second Supes committed to the idea of fighting with as much savagery as Doomsday, the good bet was that he had a momentary power up like crazy. Seems consistent with Supes learning to let go years later during O.W.A.W. ironically enough alongside Doomsday.

Originally posted by jinzin
"I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?"

Given how Byrne interpreted his version of Supes' powers to be not unlike Marvel's Gladiator, it's possible if not probable.

The second Supes committed to the idea of fighting with as much savagery as Doomsday, the good bet was that he had a momentary power up like crazy. Seems consistent with Supes learning to let go years later during O.W.A.W. ironically enough alongside Doomsday.


https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/RogerSternNovelisation.jpg

Originally posted by jinzin
"I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?"

Given how Byrne interpreted his version of Supes' powers to be not unlike Marvel's Gladiator, it's possible if not probable.

The second Supes committed to the idea of fighting with as much savagery as Doomsday, the good bet was that he had a momentary power up like crazy. Seems consistent with Supes learning to let go years later during O.W.A.W. ironically enough alongside Doomsday.

My post should have said 'a Superman who is as fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier, without any powerups

Because that is what Carver is asserting.

Originally posted by jinzin
To Carver's post a couple pages back:

Regarding Doomsday's speed you referenced:
He's cited at moving half the speed of sound by *some* observer, but, we *see* Doomsday cover a distance of some 50 miles from a Metropolis mile marker to the skyline of the city in the span it takes that same obverver to finish two sentences even though it ought have taken Doomsday between 7 to 8 minutes to cover that distance moving at half the speed of sound.
In any case this is long distance travel speed, not combat... There's also nothing to indicate this is Doomsday's maximum effort, you simply drew your own conclusion there.

"Even at speeds below the speed of sound, Superman couldn't even catch him."

You don't know that Doomsday was hopping at the same speed in the fighting as he was stated to be when bounding towards Metropolis, he could have been moving faster... You don't even know if the stated speed is accurate and reliable as the announced half/sound speed is contradicted by the on panel presentation demonstrating Doomsday was moving much faster than that... And... Superman *did* catch him, with an overhand at the start of the next issue... O o Superman *also* states/thinks "I hear you kid I just thought one of the Leaguers might be able to..." So whatever you think Superman should have done or could have done in that situation is irrelevent. You drew your own conclusions about Doomsday's speed cap based off a single contradicted statement then tried to apply that in reverse...

*** During this same event, Superman casually flies from Washington D.C. to Ohio in something like 10-15 seconds when he arrives on the scene... 330 miles... Or about 103x the speed of sound... This has more merit compared to Doomsday's speed worth discussion than a single statement that was visually contradicted as soon as it was made...


"And Booster Gold was able to react to him as well."
Booster Gold "reacted" to Doomsday trudging towards him from ten feet away, not sprinting, not lunging, and even then Booster, barely pulled it off... What Booster didn't react to? Anything immediately following Superman getting kicked through the house getting his head slammed into a tree, Doomsday rushing the League from a smoke cloud, or anything following getting caught by the neck... The only reason people ever put Flash and Doomsday in the same sentence before Doomsday Wars is because Booster made the comparison.

"And it's funny Dark throws up Superman withstanding a punch by Doomsday but moments after that getting the wind kicked out of him"
A side thrust kick is factually *far* more powerful a combat technique than a lazy gut punch *inside bondage restraints restricting upper body movement*. The average combat competitor trains taking uppercuts to the gut, but not side thrust kicks, because one of those can reasonably be done and the other is asking for injury. Beyond that, posters here already explored the idea that Doomsday was just taking it casual until he saw Supes take a punch of his; This seems like a reasonable suggestion.
*Beyond that*, Byrne's Superman is a character that explores the aspects of having mentality driven limiters and limit breakers depending on his mind and mood.

You keep insisting Doomsday was not holding back, but Idk if that's true... Like, I don't think he was totally taking it easy on the Leaguers but I do think he was playing. He could have killed Gardner and he drops him, he could have killed Beetle and he tosses him away. Twice he could have finished Supes and he walked. The entire fight he's laughing his ass off. Booster either has an insanely "pis" driven moment there, or Dooms was playing games because it gave him joy and Blue Beetle almost bit it. Either way, Idk how you can reference Booster Gold as some sort of bar here.

"Superman durability in DOS was trash."
Read the fight again...
-Superman begins the event shrugging off weapons from Warworld without a literal scratch (didn't even dust his boots for television).
-The Doomsday gut kick is an "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment right off the bat.
-In the energy blast sequence,Supes pours on the heat vision so long that everyone else either runs out of juice or fades from exhaustion in the effort with heat vision being one of Superman's more taxing abilites (something that comes up against the Doomsday clone army years later where he unloads his beams and gets winded)...
- "Is it possible this guy's getting stronger" comes up *after* the "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment.
Supes-"Maxima/hit him with everything you've got!"/Gets tagged flush in the face.
Supes (immediately after that)- "I don't know how much longer I can keep this up"

............Then the gas station blows.........

It wasn't just some random one off moment where Supes got caught in an explosion and went out, he was already taking heavyweight punches and went heavy in the paint with one of his more taxing abilities, all before that ever happened.

The pillars....
Before the pillars:
Supes-"This is... Insane! I'd swear the harder I fight... the more Doomsday like it!
Supes-"Gotta pull myself together. Got to end this."
Supes-"I must be getting punchy!"
Supes-"This *unngh* is not *ow* getting any easier! Just hitting Doomsday hurts... And he doesn't seem to have weakened... One Iota!
Supes-"This is... Just wearing me down. Got to... Change my tactics."
Guardian- "You took some terrible hits in the collapse--- why didn't you fly out of it?"/ Supes-"Too wasted."

I don't see how you could read this story and somehow come to the conclusion that it was giant steel hard superstructures alone that knocked Supes out and not the accumulative effect of the fight itself even though that's what was established.

"Superman was terrified of Doomsday reaching Metropolis and only had enough strength to hurl Doomsday a few 100 miles and admitted he probably weighed a ton"

That's not what happened.. Superman said he needed to keep Doomsday off balance and stay out of his reach, then said he threw doomsday "at a few hundred miles per hour" into some hills in an attempt to "soften him up." It was an intential strategy, it was reference to speed and at no point does Supes say he only had enough strength for that alone... His assertion that Doomsday weighs close to a ton is just a random aside trivia fact thrown in.

"Doomsday overall wasn't impressive"

That is your opinion... Here's some others:
Supes- "Lobo's power, his rage, doesn't begin to compare to Doomsday's!"
Gardner-"So fast I didn't even see him mo..."
Bloodwynd/Manhunter-"Gods! What manner of creature can withstand such a blow?"
Booster-"He's... Faster than... Flash!"
Gardner-"There's no way Doomsday can still be standing/Supes-"Incredible! He took all that energy without missing a beat!"
**Narration- "Darkseid experiences the very first twinge of fear in his life."
**Narration- "The monster disarmed and slew hundreds of Green Lanterns and left a thousand more wounded and drifting across the vastness of space. The Corps would not know another such defeat for hundreds of Millenia."

Idc about the thread, but there's a lot of interpretation happening here that's either way off base or reeks of bad faith... Hulk got choked out by a snake, and a werewolf, and come coils, so he must be "trash" but Idk that's how these discussions are meant to be had... You can reasonably discern how impressive Doomsday is and was when it's referenced years later over and over again to drive that point home, you can reasonably discern, or you can choose not to.

First I want to say that it's good seeing you. Second, theres no evidence he is anywhere close to Flash speed. Those are hyperbolic statements. No one is saying he is slow but the speed that was quoted for him is right there on panel. Also, Booster Gold outreacted him and Maxima did as well and neither are anywhere close to Flash.

My entire point/post is primarily about DOS story and you're naming showings outside of this. 🤷

Originally posted by jinzin
"I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?"

Given how Byrne interpreted his version of Supes' powers to be not unlike Marvel's Gladiator, it's possible if not probable.

The second Supes committed to the idea of fighting with as much savagery as Doomsday, the good bet was that he had a momentary power up like crazy. Seems consistent with Supes learning to let go years later during O.W.A.W. ironically enough alongside Doomsday.

Orrrre, Doomsday was weakened like it was mentioned in scans posted in this thread and Superman gained enough strength to take out a weakened Doomsday. Both of them were taxed in this right. Fresh Superman fought a fresh Doomsday, so that's clearly not the same thing.

Supes dug into his reserves while weakened and broken and took out a Doomsday that was weakened and hurt. Don't get why you're adding to this.

Dark, this is how it should've looked if Doomsday and Superman got engulfed by the blast. Not them flying outside of the explosion...

https://ibb.co/G7vjBq0

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, this is how it should've looked if Doomsday and Superman got engulfed by the blast. Not them flying outside of the explosion...

https://ibb.co/G7vjBq0

Right. So they were simultaneously faster yet slower than the blast.

The spark that ignited the gas line came from Doomsday's foot, they are literally next to the explosion, Superman is fast enough to outrace it, but then the explosion is faster than him, and all these poor creatures aren't actually screaming AIIEEE from the explosion, they just happened to step on some Lego, right?

https://i.postimg.cc/4NNTByqV/RCO124-1462958057.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Right. So they were simultaneously faster yet slower than the blast.

The spark that ignited the gas line came from Doomsday's foot, they are literally next to the explosion, Superman is fast enough to outrace it, but then the explosion is faster than him, and all these poor creatures aren't actually screaming AIIEEE from the explosion, they just happened to step on some Lego, right?

https://i.postimg.cc/4NNTByqV/RCO124-1462958057.jpg

Or the explosion could've started off smaller and got bigger due to consecutive explosions. One panel doesn't tell the full story. All I know is, they didn't get hit by the attack like you mentioned in your first post about this.

Originally posted by carver9
Or the explosion could've started off smaller and got bigger due to consecutive explosions. One panel doesn't tell the full story. All I know is, they didn't get hit by the attack like you mentioned in your first post about this.

Where does it state consecutive explosions??? Are you getting confused with scan #5??

There's only one Ba-Doom, lmao. Where are you getting all this extra information from?

But by-the-by. Are you asserting that the gas station explosion is more powerful than this?

Because think very hard on this. Remember, using YOUR logic, Superman and Maxima weren't hit by the gas station exploding either lmao:

https://i.postimg.cc/DzJTKNPg/RCO090-1462958057.jpg

So....it's the SAME AS MY SCANS.

So....back to square one, lol. Superman was KOd by a gas station exploding, but later on, after having fought for 50 odd pages straight, he gets into a similar situation (since you don't want to concede because you're adding all manner of new information lmao), only this time with a gas main.....and isn't KOd.

Please explain.

It's not the same since they are being hit by the explosion. In the scan you posted, Superman and Doomsday wasn't hit by the explosion. Why even mention this when Superman during the time of the second explosion in the city admitted again he was getting weaker? He was weaker than he was in the gas station explosion showing. He didn't say he getting stronger. He even had trouble standing whereas gas exploding knocked out Superman legs didn't feel like jelly.

https://ibb.co/rFtmWNH

So if you're implying he had dynamic strength there, then he have the strangest, most unorthodox display of dynamic strength in any comic.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not the same since they are being hit by the explosion. In the scan you posted, Superman and Doomsday wasn't hit by the explosion. Why even mention this when Superman during the time of the second explosion in the city admitted again he was getting weaker? He was weaker than he was in the gas station explosion showing. He didn't say he getting stronger. He even had trouble standing whereas gas exploding knocked out Superman legs didn't feel like jelly.

https://ibb.co/rFtmWNH

So if you're implying he had dynamic strength there, then he have the strangest, most unorthodox display of dynamic strength in any comic.

He was also gutted by Doomsday which is what KOd him, and had blood loss, or did you miss that?

So he's stabbed in the stomach, just been in a large explosion, then another, then had a series of explosions all around him.....

But you want to focus on the gas station explosion? Hmm

I see no reason for me to not focus on that since it did ko him. The stab in the gut it just another addition, along with the pillars falling on him. Him being unable to catch a leaping Doomsday. Him getting koed by Doomsday kicking pillars at him, the same pillars that a meta level character survived. Let me give you an example of what Heralds usually withstand in combat...

Beta Ray Bill vs Stardust. Bill gets koed by a clap from Galactus, wakes up, battles Stardust who gets rammed into a planet. Bills hit her with a planet busting attack. She gets up ready to fight again. Creates a Black Hole...

https://imgur.io/gallery/3bzoa

Him and Stardust stop fighting moments later due to Asteroth being born. She attacks a planet, Bill goes on the attack, Bill and SD rams her through a planet, planet explodes on them, Bill wakes up and withstands the pull of a Black Hole.

https://ibb.co/9nfGDZR
https://ibb.co/8KvtC3c
https://ibb.co/1Rfb1Jn
https://ibb.co/8615GLh
https://ibb.co/GsR9Kcx

This is Herald level fights. Not pillars knocking someone out, gas station explosions koing someone, Doomsday being trapped in mud (lol), Superman failing to catch someone jumping at under the speed of sound. Sad thing is, people truly believe DOS Superman can beat this version of Bill (bias).

Originally posted by carver9
I see no reason for me to not focus on that since it did ko him. The stab in the gut it just another addition, along with the pillars falling on him. Him being unable to catch a leaping Doomsday. Him getting koed by Doomsday kicking pillars at him, the same pillars that a meta level character survived. Let me give you an example of what Heralds usually withstand in combat...

Beta Ray Bill vs Stardust. Bill gets koed by a clap from Galactus, wakes up, battles Stardust who gets rammed into a planet. Bills hit her with a planet busting attack. She gets up ready to fight again. Creates a Black Hole...

https://imgur.io/gallery/3bzoa

Him and Stardust stop fighting moments later due to Asteroth being born. She attacks a planet, Bill goes on the attack, Bill and SD rams her through a planet, planet explodes on them, Bill wakes up and withstands the pull of a Black Hole.

https://ibb.co/9nfGDZR
https://ibb.co/8KvtC3c
https://ibb.co/1Rfb1Jn
https://ibb.co/8615GLh
https://ibb.co/GsR9Kcx

This is Herald level fights. Not pillars knocking someone out, gas station explosions koing someone, Doomsday being trapped in mud (lol), Superman failing to catch someone jumping at under the speed of sound. Sad thing is, people truly believe DOS Superman can beat this version of Bill (bias).

So what is your point, as I keep asking?

Are you seriously saying that DoS Doomsday is street tier? Meta tier? Because he doesn't have flashy collateral damage feats?

My post is, if we look at the ENTIRE RUN, they were not operating at Herald levels. This is pretty obvious. I'm talking about the entire run, not just a single comic.

Originally posted by jinzin
To Carver's post a couple pages back:

Regarding Doomsday's speed you referenced:
He's cited at moving half the speed of sound by *some* observer, but, we *see* Doomsday cover a distance of some 50 miles from a Metropolis mile marker to the skyline of the city in the span it takes that same obverver to finish two sentences even though it ought have taken Doomsday between 7 to 8 minutes to cover that distance moving at half the speed of sound.
In any case this is long distance travel speed, not combat... There's also nothing to indicate this is Doomsday's maximum effort, you simply drew your own conclusion there.

"Even at speeds below the speed of sound, Superman couldn't even catch him."

You don't know that Doomsday was hopping at the same speed in the fighting as he was stated to be when bounding towards Metropolis, he could have been moving faster... You don't even know if the stated speed is accurate and reliable as the announced half/sound speed is contradicted by the on panel presentation demonstrating Doomsday was moving much faster than that... And... Superman *did* catch him, with an overhand at the start of the next issue... O o Superman *also* states/thinks "I hear you kid I just thought one of the Leaguers might be able to..." So whatever you think Superman should have done or could have done in that situation is irrelevent. You drew your own conclusions about Doomsday's speed cap based off a single contradicted statement then tried to apply that in reverse...

*** During this same event, Superman casually flies from Washington D.C. to Ohio in something like 10-15 seconds when he arrives on the scene... 330 miles... Or about 103x the speed of sound... This has more merit compared to Doomsday's speed worth discussion than a single statement that was visually contradicted as soon as it was made...


"And Booster Gold was able to react to him as well."
Booster Gold "reacted" to Doomsday trudging towards him from ten feet away, not sprinting, not lunging, and even then Booster, barely pulled it off... What Booster didn't react to? Anything immediately following Superman getting kicked through the house getting his head slammed into a tree, Doomsday rushing the League from a smoke cloud, or anything following getting caught by the neck... The only reason people ever put Flash and Doomsday in the same sentence before Doomsday Wars is because Booster made the comparison.

"And it's funny Dark throws up Superman withstanding a punch by Doomsday but moments after that getting the wind kicked out of him"
A side thrust kick is factually *far* more powerful a combat technique than a lazy gut punch *inside bondage restraints restricting upper body movement*. The average combat competitor trains taking uppercuts to the gut, but not side thrust kicks, because one of those can reasonably be done and the other is asking for injury. Beyond that, posters here already explored the idea that Doomsday was just taking it casual until he saw Supes take a punch of his; This seems like a reasonable suggestion.
*Beyond that*, Byrne's Superman is a character that explores the aspects of having mentality driven limiters and limit breakers depending on his mind and mood.

You keep insisting Doomsday was not holding back, but Idk if that's true... Like, I don't think he was totally taking it easy on the Leaguers but I do think he was playing. He could have killed Gardner and he drops him, he could have killed Beetle and he tosses him away. Twice he could have finished Supes and he walked. The entire fight he's laughing his ass off. Booster either has an insanely "pis" driven moment there, or Dooms was playing games because it gave him joy and Blue Beetle almost bit it. Either way, Idk how you can reference Booster Gold as some sort of bar here.

"Superman durability in DOS was trash."
Read the fight again...
-Superman begins the event shrugging off weapons from Warworld without a literal scratch (didn't even dust his boots for television).
-The Doomsday gut kick is an "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment right off the bat.
-In the energy blast sequence,Supes pours on the heat vision so long that everyone else either runs out of juice or fades from exhaustion in the effort with heat vision being one of Superman's more taxing abilites (something that comes up against the Doomsday clone army years later where he unloads his beams and gets winded)...
- "Is it possible this guy's getting stronger" comes up *after* the "Idk if I've ever been hit that hard" moment.
Supes-"Maxima/hit him with everything you've got!"/Gets tagged flush in the face.
Supes (immediately after that)- "I don't know how much longer I can keep this up"

............Then the gas station blows.........

It wasn't just some random one off moment where Supes got caught in an explosion and went out, he was already taking heavyweight punches and went heavy in the paint with one of his more taxing abilities, all before that ever happened.

The pillars....
Before the pillars:
Supes-"This is... Insane! I'd swear the harder I fight... the more Doomsday like it!
Supes-"Gotta pull myself together. Got to end this."
Supes-"I must be getting punchy!"
Supes-"This *unngh* is not *ow* getting any easier! Just hitting Doomsday hurts... And he doesn't seem to have weakened... One Iota!
Supes-"This is... Just wearing me down. Got to... Change my tactics."
Guardian- "You took some terrible hits in the collapse--- why didn't you fly out of it?"/ Supes-"Too wasted."

I don't see how you could read this story and somehow come to the conclusion that it was giant steel hard superstructures alone that knocked Supes out and not the accumulative effect of the fight itself even though that's what was established.

"Superman was terrified of Doomsday reaching Metropolis and only had enough strength to hurl Doomsday a few 100 miles and admitted he probably weighed a ton"

That's not what happened.. Superman said he needed to keep Doomsday off balance and stay out of his reach, then said he threw doomsday "at a few hundred miles per hour" into some hills in an attempt to "soften him up." It was an intential strategy, it was reference to speed and at no point does Supes say he only had enough strength for that alone... His assertion that Doomsday weighs close to a ton is just a random aside trivia fact thrown in.

"Doomsday overall wasn't impressive"

That is your opinion... Here's some others:
Supes- "Lobo's power, his rage, doesn't begin to compare to Doomsday's!"
Gardner-"So fast I didn't even see him mo..."
Bloodwynd/Manhunter-"Gods! What manner of creature can withstand such a blow?"
Booster-"He's... Faster than... Flash!"
Gardner-"There's no way Doomsday can still be standing/Supes-"Incredible! He took all that energy without missing a beat!"
**Narration- "Darkseid experiences the very first twinge of fear in his life."
**Narration- "The monster disarmed and slew hundreds of Green Lanterns and left a thousand more wounded and drifting across the vastness of space. The Corps would not know another such defeat for hundreds of Millenia."

Idc about the thread, but there's a lot of interpretation happening here that's either way off base or reeks of bad faith... Hulk got choked out by a snake, and a werewolf, and come coils, so he must be "trash" but Idk that's how these discussions are meant to be had... You can reasonably discern how impressive Doomsday is and was when it's referenced years later over and over again to drive that point home, you can reasonably discern, or you can choose not to. There is a distinct lack of Wolverithmetics in this post.

Originally posted by carver9
My post is, if we look at the ENTIRE RUN, they were not operating at Herald levels. This is pretty obvious. I'm talking about the entire run, not just a single comic.

What does it matter?

Do we take Superman on a issue-by-issue basis? Ok, DoS Doomsday is limited to the feats he showed in DoS - that's perfectly fine and understandable.

But other characters? No. Especially when we have a character with so few appearances as Doomsday. He's famous for only one thing - killing Superman. Physically beating him to death, no weakness exploit like magic or Kryptonite or red suns, just his fists.

To then say ah yeah, but Superman was written low in that book, so it wasn't impressive....I mean, you kept saying it was meta tier characters in that.

So what, She Hulk could have done it? Killed Superman? Luke Cage? Does it work for all characters as well, so if I take a Hulk book, and then go well, in this SPECIFIC issue where Hulk beats Thor, Thor doesn't actually have any feats, so......Thor is doodoo?

That's insane.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does it matter?

Do we take Superman on a issue-by-issue basis? Ok, DoS Doomsday is limited to the feats he showed in DoS - that's perfectly fine and understandable.

But other characters? No. Especially when we have a character with so few appearances as Doomsday. He's famous for only one thing - killing Superman. Physically beating him to death, no weakness exploit like magic or Kryptonite or red suns, just his fists.

To then say ah yeah, but Superman was written low in that book, so it wasn't impressive....I mean, you kept saying it was meta tier characters in that.

So what, She Hulk could have done it? Killed Superman? Luke Cage? Does it work for all characters as well, so if I take a Hulk book, and then go well, in this SPECIFIC issue where Hulk beats Thor, Thor doesn't actually have any feats, so......Thor is doodoo?

That's insane.

Are you not the same guy who kept posting cosmic Thor getting hit by a boulder as a standard showing when in the same book he withstood planets exploding etc...?