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Dooku sounds sure about that, what do you think?

Actually more interested as to why Dooku wanted Qui-Gon on board. He stated about him being a powerful ally. Did Qui-Gon have some untapped potential? And could he have been swerved to the dark side the way Dooku had been ?

Would like more Qui-Gon background as well. How he discovered and began his unfinished Force Ghost training….

In TOFJ Dooku pointed out that he wont be able to protect Qui-Gon, while latter replied that now Obi-Wan is doing that. I don't think that Dooku considered Qui-Gon as that powerful ally in terms of fighting ability. More like a free thinker, that could help him to change the galaxy. At that point, Dooku probably believed himself, that he wanted peace and order.

If Qui-Gon would be on Yaddle place, I would say no. For sure. In other scenarios - hard to tell. If the Council would still forbid him to train Anakin, he would probably leave and do it on his own. Perhaps then he would turn himself to Dooku for a little bit of support.

Anyway, I'm more interested in how Dooku saw this alliance with Sidious. He knew about Maul, so in wasn't a master and an apprentice relationship form begining. More like an aliance to reach a common goals. At this point they were a partners, Sidious had Maul so Dooku possibly could have his own allies. Qui-Gon and Maul's deaths changed that clearly and pushed it to be different kind of relationship. So the rules were changed as well I guess.

^ Yup.


Originally posted by McP
In TOFJ Dooku pointed out that he wont be able to protect Qui-Gon, while latter replied that now Obi-Wan is doing that. I don't think that Dooku considered Qui-Gon as that powerful ally in terms of fighting ability.


Good point. Sounded like Obi-Wan was already at least on par with Qui-Gon in terms of fighting ability.

Also adds to Obi-Wans loss. As would have felt he failed to protect his Master in the end.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Dooku sounds sure about that, what do you think? Given what we know about Qui-Gon, I certainly think he would have walked away from the Order at some point(whether it be to train Anakin against the Council's wishes, or from just growing disillusioned with the Order in general.) I don't see him ever turning to the dark side, though.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Yeah Dooku clearly became a Sith apprentice only after Yaddle's death. Until then, he was an ally of Sidious TCW S06 established that Dooku was operatively working for Palpatine during the TPM-era, under his Sith name of Tyranus. Filoni also stated in an interview that Dooku and Maul were Palpatine's "padawan learners" at the same time.

Though now it's a little less clear if Dooku was already a fully-anointed Sith at the time of TPM, because yeah, it was heavily implied that killing Yaddle was his final test to earn that spot. So perhaps "Tyranus" was just the alias Dooku used at the time to avoid detection from the Jedi, and he didn't receive the proper "Darth" title/role until after Maul's defeat.

That would actually tidy things up a bit, as it means that Palpatine technically never broke the Rule of Two.

Yeah I like that tidying up. Also note even though he was clearly a dark sider at that point, his saber was still blue.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I like that tidying up. Also note even though he was clearly a dark sider at that point, his saber was still blue.

well yeah, he was still a spy for Sidious either way up til that point; having a red blade before he was actually a Darth wouldn't have been the most subtle 😂

Originally posted by relentless1
well yeah, he was still a spy for Sidious either way up til that point; having a red blade before he was actually a Darth wouldn't have been the most subtle 😂


Dont think you can hide that, as the crystal bleeds.

After reading Master & Apprentice, it's abundantly clear that Qui-Gon would have never turned to the dark side. He had his brush with the dark side, and came through it more cemented in his allegiance to the light than ever.

That said, he would absolutely have wound up leaving the Jedi Order. They were failing in their mission to follow the will of the Force, due to the Order's subservience to the Galactic Senate.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dont think you can hide that, as the crystal bleeds. You have to forcefully make the kyber itself bleed, by dumping all of your hatred and whatnot directly into it. The blade doesn't just turn red on its own through an accumulation of evil deeds or w/e(hence why Anakin's blade remained blue throughout the entirety of RotS.)

Would have been a cool inclusion to have seen Dooku bleed his crystal right after killing Yaddle.

I have always wondered about Inquisitor sabers. They weren't actually Sith, but still had red sabers. Did Sidious give them permission to bleed their crystals, or were they like manufactured that way?

Red crystals can also be artifically manufactured so i guess the latter

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Red crystals can also be artifically manufactured so i guess the latter

That was old Legends lore, but in canon you can't manufacture kyber. That was a whole big plot point in the novel Catalyst, where Galen Erso was trying to make artificial kyber as a power source.

As for the Inquisitor sabers, the Ahsoka novel gave us some clues. The Empire began mining Ilum for kyber right after Order 66. Ahsoka traveled to Ilum intent on building a new lightsaber, but the crystals that called to her were actually the ones in the Sixth Brother's lightsaber.

So, from the context of the novel, the Inquisitors didn't have any special bond to their crystals the way Jedi do (with Jedi following the "call" of specific crystals). Instead, they were given crystals that had been harvested by the Empire from Ilum. Now, who bled their crystals is still unanswered. May have been the Inquisitors themselves, but more likely it was done by Palpatine.

I doubt Palpatine Sat around bleeding crystals for Inquisitors.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I doubt Palpatine Sat around bleeding crystals for Inquisitors.

Could be that he bled a large crystal as part of an experiment, then had it broken down for the Inquisitor blades?

^ Like that massive kyber he had on Exegol, for example.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Like that massive kyber he had on Exegol, for example.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly

Originally posted by Underachiever59
Could be that he bled a large crystal as part of an experiment, then had it broken down for the Inquisitor blades? Originally posted by Underachiever59
Yeah, my thoughts exactly Looked into it a bit more, and yeah, it seems like this was indeed the case.

The "Medcenter Fortress" entry in Complete Locations (2016) states: "Massive Sith-imbued kyber crystal, slivers from which will be used in Sith lightsabers":
https://ibb.co/YjJd4gN
That said, it does seem likely that Palpatine may have just cut little pieces from the giant kyber he already had on Coruscant, and used those for the Inquisitors' sabers... Which makes sense. After all, properly bleeding a Jedi's kyber seems like it was very much a Sith-exclusive ritual/rite of passage -- and since the Inquisitors were not Sith, I doubt that Palpatine would have been too keen on allowing a bunch of c-list pretenders to do something like that. /shrug

Moreover, it was reiterated that a true Sith kyber/saber must be taken, not given:
https://ibb.co/hczcYjW
So gifting Inquisitors with their red sabers would have actually been another subtle way to differentiate them from proper Sith.

I agree. Dooku was clearly a Sith operative/acolyte prior to(and during) the events of TPM... But it now seems like he didn't become Palpatine's formal apprentice until just after Maul's defeat(and Yaddle's death.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Looked into it a bit more, and yeah, it seems like this was indeed the case.

The "Medcenter Fortress" entry in Complete Locations (2016) states: "Massive Sith-imbued kyber crystal, slivers from which will be used in Sith lightsabers":
https://ibb.co/YjJd4gN
That said, it does seem likely that Palpatine may have just cut little pieces from the giant kyber he already had on Coruscant, and used those for the Inquisitors' sabers... Which makes sense. After all, properly bleeding a Jedi's kyber seems like it was very much a Sith-exclusive ritual/rite of passage -- and since the Inquisitors were not Sith, I doubt that Palpatine would have been too keen on allowing a bunch of c-list pretenders to do something like that. /shrug

Moreover, it was reiterated that a true Sith kyber/saber must be taken, not given:
https://ibb.co/hczcYjW
So gifting Inquisitors with their red sabers would have actually been another subtle way to differentiate them from proper Sith. Makes sense.

I also doubt that your run of the mill Inquisitor (outside of maybe the GI) would have even been powerful enough to bleed a crystal in the first place. It seems like it was a difficult task for even Vader and Kylo, so I doubt some weak ass goons could have done it.

Yeah, bleeding a kyber certainly isn't an easy task, but it's not really a raw power thing. Since kybers are naturally attuned to the light side, the bleeding process is about pouring one's hate/rage/pain into an existing crystal, in order to attune it to the dark side. That said, any dark sider with the sufficient willpower/mindset should be able to successfully bleed a kyber.

However, if the bleeder is conflicted or not properly aligned with the dark side, the process can result in some nasty feedback that destroys(or in Kylo's case damages) the crystal.

Bleeding crystals is so edgy and retarded.

See, I actually prefer the process of taking a vanquished Jedi's kyber and forcing it to "bleed", to the process of manufacturing synthetic red crystals or whatever. /shrug

Bleeding them is actually cool

Yeah, I much prefer the concept of Sith bleeding the kyber crystals to their old Legends concept of manufacturing.

The bleeding of a Jedi's crystal fits perfectly with the theme of the Sith: Bending the Force to their will. Subjugating something pure and corrupting it until it's hardly recognizable from what it once was.

The whole process of making synthetic crystals just felt so sterile and matter-of-fact. It's the kind of boring, uninteresting fact you'd only find in sourcebooks trying to explain away every minor detail of a story. It doesn't have the same dramatic, story-telling potential that bleeding a crystal has.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually more interested as to why Dooku wanted Qui-Gon on board. He stated about him being a powerful ally. Did Qui-Gon have some untapped potential? And could he have been swerved to the dark side the way Dooku had been ?

Would like more Qui-Gon background as well. How he discovered and began his unfinished Force Ghost training…. I mean above all else, Dooku viewed Qui-Gon as a son. He was probably the person he cares most about in the SW universe.

Whether he was useful or not he wouldn't have cared initially, he might have later when the dark side twisted his mind, but as far as recruiting him early on? Yeah no reason to see why he wouldn't. Doubt Sidious would mind as it's one more force user on their side, and a fairly powerful one at that, powerful enough to be a great asset, but not too powerful as for Sidious to be wary of him. A perfect pawn.

Take your daddy issues somewhere else, Jmango.