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Thing has always had the power of heart, it's often commented on, like when he passed out inside the living planet Eon. Usually with a line like this, "Ben took more than he should have, but eventually even his will, his heart wasn't enough."

Herc has "skill", usually a line like this is mentioned, "Herc's skill almost levelled things up, but, eventually Nefaria was just too strong". Which unquantifiable superpower wins out?

You know what?

Ben is as skilled as Hercules.

Discuss.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know what?

Ben is as skilled as Hercules.

Discuss. I agree.

They are definitely similar in skill.

They are no expert martial artists and they both have some good showings when depowered.

Herc has an obvious advantage of many more years of experience and not being a giant, clumsy rock monster.

Still, that never makes it a problem for Ben to fight him to a standstill...

Is Ben that clumsy? You and I both remember him tussling with Logan in EotS, and Logan was complimentary to him.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Herc has "skill", usually a line like this is mentioned, "Herc's skill almost levelled things up, but, eventually Nefaria was just too strong". lololol

He does great, considering he's a living rock.

Hell, he even swims a lot, iirc.

But his bulk is an obvious disadvantage, whereas Herc has always had it easy.

Hercules doesn't tire at the same rate that Ben does. He wins.

Originally posted by Stoic
Hercules doesn't tire at the same rate that Ben does. He wins.

Stats are the same, which goes for endurance as well.

Only thing is, Thing has his heart force powering him through.

Oh so Ben has been given immortality then? That wasn't stated in the OP.

Originally posted by Stoic
Oh so Ben has been given immortality then? That wasn't stated in the OP.

The title literally says stats equalised. You also assume that Herc can't be KOd, or thrown for the BFR. But as the thread hasn't progressed, feel free to ask the OP.

Equalized does not mean immortality.. Maybe it does in this case though.id argue that Herc would still be more agile based upon having a less bulky physique.

Originally posted by Stoic
Equalized does not mean immortality.. Maybe it does in this case though.id argue that Herc would still be more agile based upon having a less bulky physique. Yeah.

What does immortality have to do with endurance?

Olympians don't build up fatigue poisons like mortals do. It's the reason why Hercules can fight for years without tiring.

Post such a feat, instead of writing fan fiction.

Thor and Hercules have themselves fought for years without tiring it's as if you need to prove that humans breathe air.

For years without a pause?

Book and issue number.

Originally posted by Stoic
Olympians don't build up fatigue poisons like mortals do. It's the reason why Hercules can fight for years without tiring.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor and Hercules have themselves fought for years without tiring it's as if you need to prove that humans breathe air.

If this is the case you should be able to easily show it and it's because of their immortality only.

I'm at work.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm at work.

Then I'll be eagerly awaiting when you're able to post them.

Powers of a Demigod
Like most Olympian gods, Hercules is immune to aging and conventional disease. He is virtually tireless, as his body produces no fatigue poisons. Hercules has superhuman strength (Class 100), greater than most other Olympian gods.

I googled that. Pretty simple right? It's also a canon fact for the character.

No no, comics, not copy/paste a bio.

I'm not doing anything for you. Accept it or don't, but your ignorance isn't my problem to deal with.

It's not me who is ignorant.

So, basic bios from handbooks again... same handbooks that you bring up/ignore completely at your leisure?

You didn't learn your lesson in the other thread?

Stoic, I'm perfectly fine waiting if you just can't get the scans now. But it's looking like you don't actually have anything from the comics and are complaining when you're called out to use better evidence. Is the Handbooks all you have, or do you actually have examples from the comics?

Nefaria would be destroyed in a fight with Hercules under those conditions. Hercules according to Marvel canon, and not Stiltman canon does not produce fatigue toxins. Ignoring this is up to you,but I'll believe the creators of the character over some internet troll.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Stoic, I'm perfectly fine waiting if you just can't get the scans now. But it's looking like you don't actually have anything from the comics and are complaining when you're called out to use better evidence. Is the Handbooks all you have, or do you actually have examples from the comics?

Didn't I tell you to get your hat and sit in the corner?

So prove us wrong and drop those scans from canon comics.

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't I tell you to get your hat and sit in the corner?

So you don't have it and you're complaining it's not going your way confirmed. GG.

Originally posted by Stoic
Powers of a Demigod
Like most Olympian gods, Hercules is immune to aging and conventional disease. He is virtually tireless, as his body produces no fatigue poisons. Hercules has superhuman strength (Class 100), greater than most other Olympian gods.

Lets see what it says about Nefaria:


https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Luchino_Nefaria_(Earth-616)



Who'd have thunk an energy body builds up fatigue toxins, but there you go.


Nef can get tired and Herc can't, game set match.

Stoic never posts scans or issue numbers. What else is new.

He even admitted he can't properly use his mobile device.

Herc's been canonically messed up by a spiked-up drink. Immortality and godhood are just words.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Stoic never posts scans or issue numbers. What else is new.

He even admitted he can't properly use his mobile device.

Herc's been canonically messed up by a spiked-up drink. Immortality and godhood are just words.

When the Masters of Evil beat the shot out of him? Well eventually.

Originally posted by Delta1938
When the Masters of Evil beat the shot out of him? Well eventually.

Yes.

It didn't knock him out on its own, no, but it was a major factor that impeded his battle performance... commented on panel by both the Avengers and the Masters of Evil.

He can be worn out. "Gods" have never been that special in Marvel, same goes for DC. They all have their limits.

Hence why we talk about their feats here to determine said limits.

Heart force is not a means to win.

It's a means to lose and save face.

If heart is ever brought up it's because he is getting that ass beat.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes.

It didn't knock him out on its own, no, but it was a major factor that impeded his battle performance... commented on panel by both the Avengers and the Masters of Evil.

He can be worn out. "Gods" have never been that special in Marvel, same goes for DC. They all have their limits.

Hence why we talk about their feats here to determine said limits.

One bad showing is one bad showing.

Maxima TP'd Orion unconscious, yet New Gods are immune to telepathy.

Psyloche read Juggernauts thoughts past his tp proof helmet.

Essentially, you'd need to prove Herc getting wasted by common human stuff while immortal is the norm, and not an outlier.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Heart force is not a means to win.

It's a means to lose and save face.

If heart is ever brought up it's because he is getting that ass beat.

Well, he did beat Hulk with the power of heart.

Finally. Only took longer then the Undertakers streak.

Serpent Society has some of the most potent toxins in the world, which have overpowered many superhumans.

Herc has no limitless stamina feats, it's a lie.

I think he meant with Hercules unlimited strength like moving Manhattan island could bring benefits to the fight that are inexcusable.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
I think he meant with Hercules unlimited strength like moving Manhattan island could bring benefits to the fight that are inexcusable.

But Thing's name is innuendo and his mutated form brings a new meaning to "rock hard" and Hercules being ancient Greek is intrigued.

Wonder Man got a taste of his own medicine.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Wonder Man got a taste of his own medicine.

If a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, then Hercules needs a few pounds after both poundings he takes from Thing.

You think Ben is as skilled as someone who has been fighting for thousands of years and created his own martial art, who's strong enough to match the Odinson in battle?
Because that's the implication, that Herc doesn't just fold him in half like a deck chair and needs to outlast him.

Ben was also the Super Heavyweight wrestling Champion of the Galaxy, or some such. He has decent combat ability, and he can box as well.

Yet you're the one ignoring comics and even the Handbooks when it doesn't suit you.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ben was also the Super Heavyweight wrestling Champion of the Galaxy, or some such. He has decent combat ability, and he can box as well.

That's my point.

Ben has decent combat ability and can box. Apparently, according to you, this is enough to stalemate Herc, supposedly one of the greatest warriors of all time, to the extent that Herc needs his godly stamina to win.

Can't Herc just use his godly skills to end the fight in the first minute or so?

Congrats, that makes their stamina peak human level, if we are generous

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol not my question.

Does the fight need to extend to years? I mean, with the skill advantage Herc has (I assume he has one?) won't the fight be over in ten minutes or so? I remember when iron man tired herc out and hit him with mains voltage.

Hey Whirly, maybe you didn't see my question.

With stats equalised, wouldn't their stamina be the same for this thread

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hey Whirly, maybe you didn't see my question.

With stats equalised, wouldn't their stamina be the same for this thread Yes, indeed they do. Except for any "skill" and "heart" each has

Yeah, Stoic will run away once he reads that

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, Stoic will run away once he reads that Stoic is Hercs "skills" biggest fan. I am not so sure he will.