Vader & Dooku vs. Super Battle Droids (growing gauntlet)

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Eli Vanto
This is canon Vader and Dooku, with access to their lightsabers and force abilities only. They are working together as a team.

They are in the Geonosis arena, and are attacked by the Super Battle Droids all at once.


The stipulation is that the number of droids doubles after each round. In other words, the number of droids starts off at 10. Then 20. Then 40. Then 80. And so on.

Vader and Dooku are fully healed between each round. How many can they take down before they fall?

Jmanghan
Uh infinite:
cF3ocZu4cZo

That but 50x worse.

Total Warrior
Really a lot, tens of thousand tbh

Sheev
A few hundred tops. That is already a LOOOT of blaster fire to deal with.

Zenwolf
Since this is Canon, not really seeing Dooku lasting a whole lot. Plus has Dooku ever taken on a gigantic number before? His fighting style doesn't seem at all geared to it.

Vader can last just due to feats of already taking on huge groups and his armor is a far greater benefit for defense purposes.

So Vader does last a lot longer than Dooku would, but I'd say he'd get overwhelmed when the numbers start reaching towards the triple digits.

Freedon Nadd
I mean realistically all it takes is for them to keep using Force telekinetic based abilities. Unless you have an unlimited amount of droids?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh infinite:
cF3ocZu4cZo

That but 50x worse.

Tartakovsky's cartoon is not canon.

Zenwolf

StiltmanFTW
Well said.

This no limits fallacy and treating Star Wars characters as some kind of anime/manga gods really need to stop.

Zenwolf

StiltmanFTW
https://i.imgur.com/1F47zAv.gif

Darth Thor
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tartakovsky's cartoon is not canon.


Stilt knows his SW Canon.

Impressive. Most Impressive.

Zenwolf
Ok Stilt, I'll admit some might REALLY stretch out what a character is actually capable of. But those who really know, would know it's BS.

I mean just by showings alone, we have maybe a handful of actual army busters and they are all in that top 1% within the SW Mythos. Which is majority coming from the EU.

Disney Canon, I've only seen Vader take on any large group that was in the low to medium double digits for infantry. Which was an entire Rebel Company which had vehicle support. In Vader Down.

A Company isn't an Army, it's only a step above Platoon level in strength. I couldn't count all the troops in Vader down, but he really only killed maybe a low 200+ count of troops. Even then though, I'm pretty sure it wasn't all at once, but reading through the comic it makes it seem a little bit confusing honestly where it doesn't seem he fights them all at once and it's more a separation/divide/conquer sort of thing. But whatever, we'll just go with it.

Of course given the location here is much smaller compared to where Vader was, that might be an issue. Still I can give the benefit of the doubt in saying he'll get into the 200 count before falling.

Which being fair, I don't see why that's a bad thing?

Galan007
Yeah, low triple-digits sounds about right. Vader and Dooku are beasts, no doubt, but defending against that much simultaneous blaster-spam would be difficult for pretty much anyone this side of a peak Palpatine to deal with. Their best bet would probably be a mixture of Force-shielding + TK waves... But we've also seen top-tier Jedi overwhelmed by far less, so... /shrug

It also depends *how* the droids attack them. For example, if the droids are all just marching towards Vader/Dooku from across the arena, then they could handle more... But if they are swarmed omni-directionally, then they'd go down much faster.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
But if they are swarmed omni-directionally, then they'd go down much faster.

Good post. Surprised you could control your Vader fanboyism, even if just for a single post. Well done.

And yes --- this part is spot on --- that's also why the Jedi were losing the First Battle of Geonosis.

What were the numbers, Galan?

187 Jedi dead, 28 survived?

Galan007
I think in canon a little over 200 Jedi fought during the battle of Geonosis, and only like 20-30 survived.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, low triple-digits sounds about right. Vader and Dooku are beasts, no doubt, but defending against that much simultaneous blaster-spam would be difficult for pretty much anyone this side of a peak Palpatine to deal with. Their best bet would probably be a mixture of Force-shielding + TK waves... But we've also seen top-tier Jedi overwhelmed by far less, so... /shrug

It also depends *how* the droids attack them. For example, if the droids are all just marching towards Vader/Dooku from across the arena, then they could handle more... But if they are swarmed omni-directionally, then they'd go down much faster.

Given the layout of the Arena, I counted...6 entrances just on the ground level alone? There could have been more, but everything happening so fast I only could count 6.

More up in the stands.

Droids were pouring out of everywhere.

https://youtu.be/cK5zMDVGF2Y?t=39

There's no real way for the duo here to withstand all of that with droids coming in from a 360 degree direction and pouring on blaster fire.

Dooku most certainly is going to die first, then Vader.

The only real saving grace is that the droids just come in by 10s. But then this matters little when it increases each time anyway.

Galan007
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Given the layout of the Arena, I counted...6 entrances just on the ground level alone? There could have been more, but everything happening so fast I only could count 6.

More up in the stands.

Droids were pouring out of everywhere.

https://youtu.be/cK5zMDVGF2Y?t=39

There's no real way for the duo here to withstand all of that with droids coming in from a 360 degree direction and pouring on blaster fire.

Dooku most certainly is going to die first, then Vader.

The only real saving grace is that the droids just come in by 10s. But then this matters little when it increases each time anyway. Agree. If Vader/Dooku get swarmed from all sides by the droids simultaneously, then I could see them perhaps clearing the 160 mark(as mentioned, that is already a tremendous amount of blaster-spam to defend against.)

The next round would be 320 droids, and they likely aren't clearing that, imo. Unlike the Battle of Geonosis from AotC, the droids would only be targeting Vader/Dooku exclusively(instead of the dozens of other Jedi who were in the arena), and there also wouldn't be random debris laying around for the duo to take refuge behind.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Agree. If Vader/Dooku get swarmed from all sides by the droids simultaneously, then I could see them perhaps clearing the 160 mark(as mentioned, that is already a tremendous amount of blaster-spam to defend against.)

The next round would be 320 droids, and they likely aren't clearing that, imo. Unlike the Battle of Geonosis from AotC, the droids would only be targeting Vader/Dooku exclusively(instead of the dozens of other Jedi who were in the arena), and there also wouldn't be random debris laying around for the duo to take refuge behind.

Tbh I think Dooku dies before the 100 mark, though I guess if Vader is doing heavy lifting he might survive to that point.

But really this is just due to....lack of grand feats? Tbh apart from Vader and Sidious and....I guess Luke.

Has ANY Force User in SW Canon done anything huge without assistance and just by themselves with regards to enemy combatants?

Because I'm honestly drawing a blank here, granted I'm really just recalling from TCW where every Force User just seemed to be a hair above a Non-Force User at times..

So I dunno if any other comic or novel has Dooku pulling off something like Vader had done in Vader Down. I really doubt it, seeing as that isn't his style...

But it seems like there's this gigantic power gap in feats shown between characters.

Vader gets shown to be like this monster in Canon, yet I can't recall seeing anything like that for really any other character.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
I think in canon a little over 200 Jedi fought during the battle of Geonosis, and only like 20-30 survived.

Sounds about right, then thumb up

According to wiki, numbers are quite similar, regardless of the version we go with.

Canon:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/First_Battle_of_Geonosis

(215 Jedi participated in the battle, 187 died)

--

Legends:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/First_Battle_of_Geonosis/Legends

(215 Jedi , but over 200 died... no source given on that number, though, so could be bs)

Zenwolf
There were only 100 Jedi during the Arena battle, at least in Legends, not 200.

So more than half of that 100 force died, if we look at the scene just before the Clones come in.

Not sure about Canon, but probably the same.

StiltmanFTW
Yoda mused they could only summon a hundred Jedi tops so quickly, but we never get told how many de facto arrived.

Wiki keeps saying 212 or 215 max in a few articles (if we include Kenobi, Skywalker and... one mysterious guy?):

1. Canon:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi_assault_team

2. Legends:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Geonosis_strike_team

But, of course, that would need to get verified, since anyone can edit such fandom sites.

Galan007
The 200+ number is factoring in the Battle of Geonosis as a whole. Not all of them were fighting in the arena, however. Either way, like 90% of them were killed... No name Jedi are absolute fodder, tbh.

Galan007
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Tbh I think Dooku dies before the 100 mark, though I guess if Vader is doing heavy lifting he might survive to that point.

But really this is just due to....lack of grand feats? Tbh apart from Vader and Sidious and....I guess Luke.

Has ANY Force User in SW Canon done anything huge without assistance and just by themselves with regards to enemy combatants?

Because I'm honestly drawing a blank here, granted I'm really just recalling from TCW where every Force User just seemed to be a hair above a Non-Force User at times..

So I dunno if any other comic or novel has Dooku pulling off something like Vader had done in Vader Down. I really doubt it, seeing as that isn't his style...

But it seems like there's this gigantic power gap in feats shown between characters.

Vader gets shown to be like this monster in Canon, yet I can't recall seeing anything like that for really any other character. In canon it has been exceptionally rare for Force users to single-handedly fight droves of opponents by themselves and come out on top(without some plot-devicey antics.)

Vader, Luke, and Palpatine are about it.

Zenwolf

Underachiever59
I can think of plenty of examples for other notable Jedi performing large-scale combat feats. Off the top of my head, there was Yoda nearly wiping out an entire droid army single-handedly, with very minimal support from his clone squad in Ambush.

Then during the liberation of Ryloth, Mace Windu was depicted holding off multiple waves of battle droids while waiting for his clone support to reactivate the plasma bridge. He even wiped out an entire wave of droid reinforcements with a single Force push.

During the episode Defenders of Peace, Anakin wracked up a kill count of around 80 when he took out an entire droid squad single-handed (by my count, each squad had 48 B1s and 10 B2s), not to mention he also took out both AATs present, the Defoliator prototype, and helped whittle down the first three droid squads as well before launching into his solo attack against the fourth. All while still recovering from a debilitating injury.

The Blade of Bardotta, Porter Engle, also single-handedly brought down an entire Nihil strike team in the High Republic Annual comic. Even one or two Nihil could be a threat to most Jedi due to the drug-crazed, suicidal tactics they utilized in combat. So again, while not quite army-busting, beating a few dozen Nihil with absolutely zero back-up is nonetheless pretty impressive.

Galan007
I was moreso speaking to examples of Jedi/Sith army-busting without any sort of outside assistance or w/e... Similar to Vader's showing here:
https://i.ibb.co/p2szNTK/Star-Wars-Vader-Down-030.jpg

Because yeah, soloing a few dozen opponents is one thing. Soloing hundreds of opponents is another matter entirely.

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