Can non force users block blaster fire?

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Eli Vanto
Are there any canon examples of non force users using a lightsaber to block blaster bolts, or is that a "Jedi only" thing?

Galan007
Karbin.

https://i.ibb.co/6FTrNgv/Star-Wars-Vader-Down-092.jpg https://i.ibb.co/vVPwYBd/Star-Wars-Vader-Down-093.jpg

Total Warrior
Originally posted by Galan007
Karbin.

https://i.ibb.co/6FTrNgv/Star-Wars-Vader-Down-092.jpg https://i.ibb.co/vVPwYBd/Star-Wars-Vader-Down-093.jpg How did he manage to do that if he can't use the Force?

Zenwolf

Underachiever59
We've also seen Grievous do the same in TCW, the first time he met Ahsoka

StiltmanFTW
Blaster bolts are pretty slow, too...

Underachiever59
Come to think of it, We've also seen Sergeant Kreel blocking blaster fire, both against a remote and iirc against a Rebel cell that he dispatched. Though he couldn't keep up defending against the remote for all that long.

StiltmanFTW
Interesting. Thanks.

Has the Disney canon tried elaborating on the speed of the average blaster bolts, such as the ones from E-11 blaster rifle?

Or we're still in the dark on this?

Zenwolf

Total Warrior

Zenwolf
Yeah, there's multiple quotes in Legends putting them as much faster than slugthrower rounds in SW either in the FTL or hypersonic range. There's even a direct instance of a bolt and bullet being fired simultaneously and the bolt outspeeding the bullet.

So Legends EU, even if not truly being able to pin down what speed, there's at least something to go off with actual statements and comparison. So we can at least note they are MUCH faster than bullets.

Canon though, I'm pretty sure we still don't know.

Total Warrior

Zenwolf
You mean Open Seasons? Yeah, well look at the context, that instance you cited with Jango smacking 3 Jedi? This was in the middle of a battle with a whole bunch of Mandalorians, 1 of the Jedi wasn't even facing his direction. We don't even see what else happens as after that, it just jumps straight to the end.

The only 'legit' kill he got was at the very end, where the Jedi is going to be fatigued much like Jango and so this somewhat evens the playing field as far as stats go. This is where the Jedi gets hit with snow, a rock and then strangled by a whipcord.

But yes, logically without PIS or CIS or context involved. A trained Force User should be moving so fast that unless the Non-Force User is augmented in some manner, they shouldn't be able to react.

StiltmanFTW
Jango did well in h2h against Kenobi in AotC, too.

To be fair now, that sort of shit with protagonists deflecting/dodging/catching fast projectiles and then appearing to fight at relatively normal speed in melee combat (or other situations in which bullet-lv speed could be very useful) happens a lot in fiction, it's not just Star Wars.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Jango did well in h2h against Kenobi in AotC, too.

To be fair now, that sort of shit with protagonists deflecting/dodging/catching fast projectiles and then appearing to fight at relatively normal speed in melee combat (or other situations in which bullet-lv speed could be very useful) happens a lot in fiction, it's not just Star Wars.

I mean did he really though? Looking at the movie, Obi-Wan landed more blows to Jango.

Obi-Wan lands 1 flying kick, a low kick and then kicking Jango straight across his face. He then lands another kick to push him back and then a punch to his stomach.

Jango I counted him, grabbing Obi-Wan's leg after his first kick to spin Obi-Wan to the ground(although looking at that scene, it could also be taken that Obi-Wan spins himself to get out of the hold??) and then he blocks a shot from Obi-Wan and lands a headbutt.

So Obi-Wan lands 5 blows.

Jango lands....1? I mean if you count him grabbing Obi-Wan's leg as a hit I guess that's 2? I couldn't exactly see if Jango landed any other blows than the singular headbutt.

The movie novelization is actually worse for Jango, because Obi-Wan basically deflects/blocks almost all of his blows or counters them in some capacity.

Though you are right, this whole speed thing isn't exactly just an issue in SW, but like everywhere.

ares834
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Jango did well in h2h against Kenobi in AotC, too.

To be fair now, that sort of shit with protagonists deflecting/dodging/catching fast projectiles and then appearing to fight at relatively normal speed in melee combat (or other situations in which bullet-lv speed could be very useful) happens a lot in fiction, it's not just Star Wars.

Jedi use precog to block blaster bolts. The actual velocity of the projectile/attack is mostly irrelevant. So there isn't really any inconsistency in that regard.

Anyway, non-force users blocking blaster bolts is stupid. IIRC, there were some Mandalorians that used staffs to block blaster bolts in TCW. That was dumb as hell.



In the films and shows, blaster bolts tend to follow the three frame rule. One frame of the bolt being fired, one frame of the bolt in midair, and one frame of the bolt hitting the target.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by ares834
Jedi use precog to block blaster bolts. The actual velocity of the projectile/attack is mostly irrelevant. So there isn't really any inconsistency in that regard.

Anyway, non-force users blocking blaster bolts is stupid. IIRC, there were some Mandalorians that used staffs to block blaster bolts in TCW. That was dumb as hell.

I mean it has to be precog AND speed, it can't just be one thing.

They did? But then again TCW seemed to be kinda all over the place with certain stuff going on and both the Jedi/Sith just seemed like a hair above Non-Force Users at times depending.

ares834
Nah. If you know where a bolt is going to be half a second before it hits, you just need to be quick enough to move your blade there which any normal person should be more than fast enough to do. Sustained fire from requires a bit more speed, but even then the gap between shots is typically enough that a normal person should be able to move fast enough. The bigger issue (beyond the precog) is the level of control. A normal person may be able to move fast enough, but to shift the saber into the correct position at the correct time is probably well beyond most. Now sustained fire from multiple shooters, that's when speed begins to become important.

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. If you know where a bolt is going to be half a second before it hits, you just need to be quick enough to move your blade there which any normal person should be more than fast enough to do. Sustained fire from requires a bit more speed, but even then the gap between shots is typically enough that a normal person should be able to move fast enough. The bigger issue (beyond the precog) is the level of control. A normal person may be able to move fast enough, but to shift the saber into the correct position at the correct time is probably well beyond most. Now sustained fire from multiple shooters, that's when speed begins to become important. thumb up

That was the premise of Anakin's training session with Ahsoka as recently as TotJ:
"Feel the intention of the trooper who will fire first. You should be able to sense the moment before they even pull the trigger."

So yeah, generally speaking, a Jedi's ability to block blaster fire has far more to do with precog than raw speed, because they have the benefit of getting an 'advance notice' of where the shot will go before it's even fired... But like you said: enhanced speed/reflexes definitely starts playing a factor when dealing with multiple shooters.

Sheev
How tf does that work with droid blaster fire then? because they don't have a mind or intention that can be sensed.

Underachiever59
If anything, defending against droids should be easier than against a living person. Instead of needing to sort out the complex web of emotions of a living being, you're just detecting the timing of the basic, thoughtless routines of programming. As Han said in A New Hope, "Good against remotes is one thing, good against the living? That's something else"

Precog is precog. Qui-Gon Jinn made it clear in TPM that Force users sense events before they happen, making them appear to have remarkable reflexes. This has been basic Star Wars understanding since 1977. Mark Hamill wasn't moving at superhuman speeds when he defended against the training remote on the Falcon. His blade was in position before the small droid had even fired its shots.

Galan007
Yeah, precog isn't wholly dependent on reading the minds/thoughts/motives of living beings or whatever. It just gives you brief glimpses of the future in general.

The best canon example is when Vader used his precog(or "double vision" as he called it) to pilot a Star Destroyer through chaos of the Unknown Regions while traveling through hyperspace. His precog enabled him to foresee what random planetary debris would be in his flight path, and he successfully maneuvered around it whilst moving at FTL speeds.

There were no "intentions" to be sensed. Vader just... Glimpsed the future, and acted accordingly.

Zenwolf
There still has to be some level of speed involved though, precog doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not quick enough to act upon it. Well against multiple shooters or multiple bolts, if it's something like Luke and the training remote, sure you don't need to be ridiculously quick.

Galan007
Agree. When dealing with multiple shooters(or rapid blaster fire), enhanced speed/reflexes would have to be part of the equation as well. Like you said: knowing where the bolt(s) are going to connect means nothing if you are unable to react fast enough to deflect them.

Zenwolf
So Galan, do we still not have any actual statement or comparison for bolts in Canon? Or is it still vague?

Galan007
No direct comparisons that I am aware of.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zenwolf
There still has to be some level of speed involved though, precog doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not quick enough to act upon it. Well against multiple shooters or multiple bolts, if it's something like Luke and the training remote, sure you don't need to be ridiculously quick.

Of course.

Same as heroes/villains from the superhero genre are not all about aim-dodging.

Some feats involving projectiles must be performed with genuine bursts of super-speed, period.

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