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in comics and all other medium seem like the gap is at all time wide right now, just look at the marvel and dc official forum and you can tell

I grew up in the 90s and didn't start learning about comics till 2007 when I started reading green lanterns and know about superboy prime

back then in marvel I remember civil war was a huge event and everyone was talking about the tie-ins

back then marvel already surpassed dc in popularity

so when did it happen? 90s? 80s?

Originally posted by MrMind
in comics and all other medium seem like the gap is at all time wide right now, just look at the marvel and dc official forum and you can tell

I grew up in the 90s and didn't start learning about comics till 2007 when I started reading green lanterns and know about superboy prime

back then in marvel I remember civil war was a huge event and everyone was talking about the tie-ins

back then marvel already surpassed dc in popularity

so when did it happen? 90s? 80s? In the 70's Marvel was already ahead.

X-men were all based off soap operas at the time.


Which explains why it was so bad.

Originally posted by cdtm
X-men were all based off soap operas at the time.


Which explains why it was so bad.

https://i.imgur.com/tMsQ53D.gif

I mean....back in the 90s, they could cast Arnie and Clooney etc in Batman films, whilst Marvel were on the brink of bankruptcy and Michael Jackson was in talks to play Spider-Man. So yeah, I'd say it was probably the 2000s when Marvel started pulling ahead.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
In the 70's Marvel was already ahead.

70s would be my guess, too.

--
But hell, even on the beginning, we had Cap punching Hitler in the face...

... while DC literally worships Donald Trump, Putin, nazis (Mussolini being the fave of Snyder) and "the glory days" of the Soviet Union, so...

Originally posted by -Pr-
https://i.imgur.com/tMsQ53D.gif

Be glad you're busy with work and don't see even 1% of the posts Todd makes these days.

Btw, Paul, my love, here's a gift from Bada for you:

https://i.ibb.co/tKtyjh3/44.jpg

In the late 60's

Originally posted by MrMind
in comics and all other medium seem like the gap is at all time wide right now, just look at the marvel and dc official forum and you can tell

I grew up in the 90s and didn't start learning about comics till 2007 when I started reading green lanterns and know about superboy prime

back then in marvel I remember civil war was a huge event and everyone was talking about the tie-ins

back then marvel already surpassed dc in popularity

so when did it happen? 90s? 80s? I believe Marvel began over taking DC in the late 60's.

X-men in the late 80's and early 90's was already more popular than anything in DC... (or in Marvel with the exception of Spider-Man, for that matter). X-men were probably THE most popular comic franchise in the world in the early 90's.

But the rest of Marvel - i.e. Avengers, Fantastic 4, etc. lagged behind and were probably about on par with most of DC in terms of popularity during that time, but behind Batman in popularity.

By the early to mid-2000's with big cross-over events like House of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, etc., that's when Marvel really pulled ahead with huge big-sellers drawing a lot of popularity for the other teams outside of the X-men.

👆👆

Only a handful of ppl tuned to watch the Justice League animated series(2000's) while EVERYBODY watched the xmen and spiderman series of the 90's.

Originally posted by MrMind
in comics and all other medium seem like the gap is at all time wide right now, just look at the marvel and dc official forum and you can tell

I grew up in the 90s and didn't start learning about comics till 2007 when I started reading green lanterns and know about superboy prime

back then in marvel I remember civil war was a huge event and everyone was talking about the tie-ins

back then marvel already surpassed dc in popularity

so when did it happen? 90s? 80s? At least the 90s:

https://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/marketsharesyearly.html

But the 80s had DC comics publish Crisis on Infinite Earths, Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One, and reboot their entire continuity with brand new #1 titles for the Byrne-era Superman, Perez-era Wonder Woman, etc.

While Marvel published Secret Wars and Daredevil Born Again, what other 1980s-era classics did Marvel have? I'm 8 beers too many in to recall.

Originally posted by ODG

While Marvel published Secret Wars and Daredevil Born Again, what other 1980s-era classics did Marvel have? I'm 8 beers too many in to recall.

Kravens Last Hunt, Dark Phoenix Saga, Squadron Supreme, Days Of Future Past, Death Of Captain Marvel, Contest Of Champions, Evolutionary War, Xmen Inferno, Peter David started writing the Hulk.

^ Those storylines are indisputably classics in a different context but call me a DC fanboy... I believe they pale in comparison to the critical acclaim and financial success of the DC comics I listed... with possibly the exception of the Dark Phoenix Saga... which was 1980.

Originally posted by ODG
At least the 90s:

https://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/marketsharesyearly.html

But the 80s had DC comics publish Crisis on Infinite Earths, Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One, and reboot their entire continuity with brand new #1 titles for the Byrne-era Superman, Perez-era Wonder Woman, etc.

While Marvel published Secret Wars and Daredevil Born Again, what other 1980s-era classics did Marvel have? I'm 8 beers too many in to recall.

I argue that the 90s were Marvel's worst decade.... weren't they inching towards bankruptcy?

^ Very true. But they still had a larger market share at that time if I'm not mistaken. At least, that's what that article I linked seemed to suggest.

Yeah, they must have been really messing up somewhere.

Favreau really deserves a lot of credit.

Originally posted by tkitna
In the late 60's Probably.

Better & better.

Now we need someone to say it started in the 50s or 40s Beatboks, come here

--

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I argue that the 90s were Marvel's worst decade.... weren't they inching towards bankruptcy?

It was a whole series of unfortunate business decisions, mixed in with some bad luck & seven big name creators leaving Marvel and founding Image Comics.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Only a handful of ppl tuned to watch the Justice League animated series(2000's) while EVERYBODY watched the xmen and spiderman series of the 90's.

To counterpoint: Batman: TAS (and the general Timmverse). Batman, Batman Forever, Batman Returns, Batman and Robin, with Arnie, Uma Thurman, Tommy Lee Jones, Jim Carrey, Jack Nicholson, Michelle Pfeiffer, Basinger, Keaton etc etc etc.... whilst Marvel had Hasselhof lol.

People forget just how shitty the MCU was before, in the dark days.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Those storylines are indisputably classics in a different context but call me a DC fanboy... I believe they pale in comparison to the critical acclaim and financial success of the DC comics I listed... with possibly the exception of the Dark Phoenix Saga... which was 1980.

You are probably right. I guess as a comic collector, I was basing my post on what I think is more collectible at this point. I admit that I probably looked at it in the wrong capacity.

They pulled ahead pretty quickly, simply because DC was creatively dead in the sixties. DC had reduced both Batman and Superman to farce, and farce is usually the death-rattle of any genre. In the seventies DC started to fight back, slowly giving Batman his balls back. But by then Marvel had already taken over the market heavily. But at least the era of Superman the prankster was over.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Better & better.

Now we need someone to say it started in the 50s or 40s Beatboks, come here


Definitely not the 40s, timely (Marvel's predecessor) had Cap A, Human Torch, All Winners and Namor (plus that stupid Daredevil with a spikey belt).

Most popular comic publisher in the 40s I would say would have been Fawcett. Whiz comics and Shazam family both sold over a million copies annissue. Spy Smasher was huge. Not to mention both these had movies and movie serials way before any other comic related character.


Captain Marvel 1941
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0033317/
Spy Smasher in 1942
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0035372/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_Smasher_(serial)

Batman wasn't until 43, Superman wasn't till 48 (IIRC)

Originally posted by beatboks

Batman wasn't until 43, Superman wasn't till 48 (IIRC)
Scary thing is, beatboks is referring to first-hand knowledge.

Originally posted by beatboks
Definitely not the 40s, timely (Marvel's predecessor) had Cap A, Human Torch, All Winners and Namor (plus that stupid Daredevil with a spikey belt).

Most popular comic publisher in the 40s I would say would have been Fawcett. Whiz comics and Shazam family both sold over a million copies annissue. Spy Smasher was huge. Not to mention both these had movies and movie serials way before any other comic related character.


Captain Marvel 1941
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0033317/
Spy Smasher in 1942
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0035372/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_Smasher_(serial)

Batman wasn't until 43, Superman wasn't till 48 (IIRC)
Superman vs Mole Men was in 1941, same with the Fleisher cartoons in 41

Originally posted by beatboks
(plus that stupid Daredevil with a spikey belt).


I thought he wasn't owned by Timely Comics?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scary thing is, beatboks is referring to first-hand knowledge.

Yes.

Boks is older than the universe itself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To counterpoint: Batman: TAS (and the general Timmverse). Batman, Batman Forever, Batman Returns, Batman and Robin, with Arnie, Uma Thurman, Tommy Lee Jones, Jim Carrey, Jack Nicholson, Michelle Pfeiffer, Basinger, Keaton etc etc etc.... whilst Marvel had Hasselhof lol.
Batman TAS was great but again none of my friends or aquintances really watched it. Yes exactly, but Those films were quickly forgotten when Blade and xmen dropped. My point being that marvel is what is today because of their animated series imo..i mean look at the numbers between Sam raimis spider-man and batman begins..

People forget just how shitty the MCU was before, in the dark days.

How can you say this when batman and Robin exist lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scary thing is, beatboks is referring to first-hand knowledge.

Marvel>>DC in power and popularity

Originally posted by carver9
Marvel>>DC in power and popularity

do you think you repeat something long enough

it will become true?

Originally posted by MrMind
do you think you repeat something long enough

it will become true?

No but I think that providing facts is a more suitable argument which is what I did.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Batman TAS was great but again none of my friends or aquintances really watched it. Yes exactly, but Those films were quickly forgotten when Blade and xmen dropped. My point being that marvel is what is today because of their animated series imo..i mean look at the numbers between Sam raimis spider-man and batman begins..

People forget just how shitty the MCU was before, in the dark days.

How can you say this when batman and Robin exist lol

Lol well, X-men was in 2000 (so I agree, the 2000s were when Marvel pulled ahead).

Blade was in 1998, I give you that - but many didn't know it was a Marvel film/character, and it was really a B-movie. And no, I didn't forget Batman and Robin, lol, but my point was...

Batman and Robin, though critically shat upon, had Arnie (still pretty high in the action totem pole, though he was waning), Uma Thurman, Clooney (at the top of his ER game, and had been cast in major Hollywood movies by then), Alicia Silverstone (Clueless, her most famous role, was in 1995, so she was a pretty big star) - and had a budget of $150million. IOW, it was a Big Thing. Yeah,it was shit....but it made $238million.

Blade had...Wesley Snipes, and a budget of $45million. My point being, Batman and Robin was a sufficiently 'sure' bet for a movie studio to throw money and big names at it. Which is due to, you guessed it, DC's popularity. Marvel? They couldn't get anyone to even buy their properties - I think at one point they offered their entire catalogue to Sony for $25 million (who didn't even think it worth it, so only bought Spidey for $10 million).

Let that sink it. RDJ earned $75million alone for Endgame. Jeremy Renner made $15million for the same film - so for the money paid to Hawkeye, they could've nearly acquired the entire stable of Marvel.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Only a handful of ppl tuned to watch the Justice League animated series(2000's) while EVERYBODY watched the xmen and spiderman series of the 90's. Also this is just false

For instance:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League_(TV_series)

X-Men TAS is still the GOAT, in my opinion, but we don't need to lie and pretend that JL/JLU was an unsuccessful show

they both suck tbh, i hate superhero cartoons

why can't they be more like anime

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
People forget just how shitty the MCU was before, in the dark days.

Technically, there was no MCU before 2008 Iron Man.

Some of their bad decisions concerning the film rights last to this day.

Yeah. The money (and popularity) wasn't in comics, especially in the last 30-40 years or so. According to ODG's link, Marvel were implied to be spanking DC in comic sales - and this is back when piracy isn't the issue it is today.

They still filed for bankruptcy in 1996.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman vs Mole Men was in 1941, same with the Fleisher cartoons in 41

Your a decade out

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0044091/

It was 51, and I'm obviously not talking animation.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. The money (and popularity) wasn't in comics, especially in the last 30-40 years or so. According to ODG's link, Marvel were implied to be spanking DC in comic sales - and this is back when piracy isn't the issue it is today.

They still filed for bankruptcy in 1996. You can't make money selling comics. The margins have always been terrible.

The IP had increasing theoretical value but turning that into actual $$$ required an in house movie studio. Something beyond merely licensing and selling the movie rights to individual characters.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. The money (and popularity) wasn't in comics, especially in the last 30-40 years or so. According to ODG's link, Marvel were implied to be spanking DC in comic sales - and this is back when piracy isn't the issue it is today.

They still filed for bankruptcy in 1996.

Yeah, but not because they've lost the fans.

There was a shitload of factors, but that one wasn't one of them.

Blade film is often given the credit for saving them from their financial trouble.

Marvel repaid the character by letting him fade into obscurity vin

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I thought he wasn't owned by Timely Comics?



Yes.

Boks is older than the universe itself.

Your right, he wasn't. Lev Gleason publications.

Hey I'm older than time, altzimers is sneakin in

Alzheimer's*

And - jokes aside - I sure hope not

You appear to have a pretty damn good memory, hell, you even remember about Comics Ledger forum.

--
Boks' sig from there, everyone:

https://i.ibb.co/s2Zg3H4/johnvsjohn.jpg

Originally posted by Smurph
You can't make money selling comics. The margins have always been terrible.

The IP had increasing theoretical value but turning that into actual $$$ required an in house movie studio. Something beyond merely licensing and selling the movie rights to individual characters.

True.

Not to mention that the comic collector fatigue plagued the nineties, hence why they've tried too hard with the variant & hologram covers and so on.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They couldn't get anyone to even buy their properties - I think at one point they offered their entire catalogue to Sony for $25 million (who didn't even think it worth it, so only bought Spidey for $10 million).



Yeah I heard marvel was in a terrible state and filed for bankruptcy. This puts it into perspective.

Originally posted by Smurph
X-Men TAS is still the GOAT, in my opinion, but we don't need to lie and pretend that JL/JLU was an unsuccessful show

I wasn't trying to do neither. Just sharing my first hand experience. I couldn't really talk about the show because none of my classmates tuned in. Im from the bay area in case your wondering.

In addition, I grew up on hip hop and it was full of marvel references. For ex: ghostface killa from the wu-tang, called himself "Tony stark" and made an album titled "ironman". Q-tip made a song about luke cage.

" livin in sin, holdin rocks, benjamin grimm" - nature
Cant forget "MF DOOM"

Originally posted by Smurph
X-Men TAS is still the GOAT, in my opinion, but we don't need to lie and pretend that JL/JLU was an unsuccessful show Bite your tongue. JLU was the sh1t. Originally posted by MrMind
they both suck tbh, i hate superhero cartoons

why can't they be more like anime Bite your tongue off and shove it up your a$$. You want to see a more anime like X-Men?

f1g701CDNw0

F'ing awful.

Originally posted by ODG
Bite your tongue. JLU was the sh1t. I'm out here defending JLU and this is the thanks I get

why do you talk like a 16 years old edgy emo kid, odg?

^ Stop hanging around 16 year olds you phuck. Originally posted by Smurph
I'm out here defending JLU and this is the thanks I get https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/95/5f/4d955fa059c86ab27c79434e133eb340.gif

I admit maybe I didn't read your post properly.

Originally posted by ODG
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/95/5f/4d955fa059c86ab27c79434e133eb340.gif

I admit maybe I didn't read your post properly.

Let's be honest, you were blind wrotten drunk and couldn't read it 😘

https://media.tenor.com/mEjMY3tm8BwAAAAC/doc-holliday-tombstone.gif

Originally posted by ODG
https://media.tenor.com/mEjMY3tm8BwAAAAC/doc-holliday-tombstone.gif

https://giphy.com/gifs/baywatch-4abpP0Ss657aWkntCF

https://giphy.com/gifs/baywatch-4abpP0Ss657aWkntCF

Nevah!!