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This is Hal before he went full Parallax and gathered like 10 or 12 rings.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11116/111168276/3979092-insane%20genis-vell.jpg

vs

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58c35f74d1758e424ee76710/1575273960382-3M356JP07RPWPG5SRKOC/Crazy+Hal.jpg

Hal

what did mad hal do that puts him above genis iyo?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
what did mad hal do that puts him above genis iyo?

He's a DC character.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
what did mad hal do that puts him above genis iyo?

Kill and knockout a bunch of elite lanterns, like Kilowog and Sinestro. Didn't seem to strain him that much tbh

He also one shot Superman.

Originally posted by lawest9
He also one shot Superman.

Wasnt he full-on Parallax at that time?

Im only talking about the moment when he got like 10 rings when he went on a space rampage after losing Emerald City.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Wasnt he full-on Parallax at that time?

Im only talking about the moment when he got like 10 rings when he went on a space rampage after losing Emerald City. True

genis

unless we count peak parallax

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
what did mad hal do that puts him above genis iyo?
His feats in general are better. Genis is a lot of hype and hot air.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His feats in general are better. Genis is a lot of hype and hot air.

Are his feats better in this state? I agree, when Hal went full Parallax, he'd whoop Genis hard.

But if we only take these two stories, who did they face/beat?

Genis faced King Thor. He didn't seem worried.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/2/24487/460148-genis_and_thor_2.jpg

Genis went nuts later on again too as Photon and took on Sentry.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/2/24487/460146-genis2.jpg

He also crushed Eternity, though its unclear if he was boosted by Entropy and Epiphany.

Abhi thinks all version of Thors suck and Sentry as well.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Are his feats better in this state? I agree, when Hal went full Parallax, he'd whoop Genis hard.

But if we only take these two stories, who did they face/beat?

Genis faced King Thor. He didn't seem worried.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/2/24487/460148-genis_and_thor_2.jpg

Yes, King Thor smashed his shields like paper. Non feat to be honest.



Is that supposed to be impressive?

It was a confusing arc but Genis didn't do anything to Eternity, Eternity wanted to die and Genis merely provided a spark to start the process.

Originally posted by carver9
Abhi thinks all version of Thors suck and Sentry as well.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Is that supposed to be impressive?

This is your catchphrase lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a confusing arc but Genis didn't do anything to Eternity, Eternity wanted to die and Genis merely provided a spark to start the process.

Hes actually right guys

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, King Thor smashed his shields like paper. Non feat to be honest.



It did smash his shields, but he wasnt fazed by the blowback at all since he instantly retaliated. He energy blasted Thor, who also wasnt hurt much. I believe this was the King Thor from the Reigning? He didn't hold back. Either way, in this range of power, it is impressive.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is your catchphrase lol



No

Originally posted by Thinkerer
It did smash his shields, but he wasnt fazed by the blowback at all since he instantly retaliated. He energy blasted Thor, who also wasnt hurt much. I believe this was the King Thor from the Reigning? He didn't hold back. Either way, in this range of power, it is impressive.
Yes, and Hal has oneshotted killed Krona. What about it?

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Are his feats better in this state? I agree, when Hal went full Parallax, he'd whoop Genis hard.

But if we only take these two stories, who did they face/beat?

Genis faced King Thor. He didn't seem worried.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/2/24487/460148-genis_and_thor_2.jpg

Genis went nuts later on again too as Photon and took on Sentry.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/2/24487/460146-genis2.jpg

He also crushed Eternity, though its unclear if he was boosted by Entropy and Epiphany.


Everyone "took on Sentry". Herc took him on, doesn't mean nothing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, and Hal has oneshotted killed Krona. What about it?

How is that relevant for this version of Hal?

Originally posted by Thinkerer
How is that relevant for this version of Hal?
Are you just limiting Hal to pre emerald twilight era feats?

Originally posted by cdtm
Everyone "took on Sentry". Herc took him on, doesn't mean nothing.

Context though. When Sentry and Genis fought, they were destroying worlds in the microverse. Not a lot of characters are going to withstand that kind of output. Sentry even said he was done holding back at the end of the fight. Not saying Sentry would or could have won, but Genis knew nothing good was going to come of it and BFR;d him and took off. Who knows the amount of damage they would have caused if the fight continued.

Originally posted by tkitna
Context though. When Sentry and Genis fought, they were destroying worlds in the microverse. Not a lot of characters are going to withstand that kind of output. Sentry even said he was done holding back at the end of the fight. Not saying Sentry would or could have won, but Genis knew nothing good was going to come of it and BFR;d him and took off. Who knows the amount of damage they would have caused if the fight continued.

Spider-Man and Psycho Man were fighting with stars in the microverse.

https://i.postimg.cc/phdqRN2K/9027429-8234374160-v-C9-Yu-Ix56-Sm-Wnh-L6-MCWr0du9uy7-SQRxa0kd2-An-D73-Jg-Wz-NM3-Xv-Gu-GJ5x-X3w-QYeuha6-O6-Kq-IDw6-Ip9q-A6-A.jpg

Xavier was destroying planets in the microverse. It's a nothing burger.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you just limiting Hal to pre emerald twilight era feats?

Maybe you should read the openingpost and replies.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Maybe you should read the openingpost and replies.
I did, wasn't clear. That's why I am asking.

not that it matters, krona is nothing compared to multi-eternity and entropy

ended all creation and recreated it, far above hal

https://i.imgur.com/HG6ymri.jpeg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Spider-Man and Psycho Man were fighting with stars in the microverse.

https://i.postimg.cc/phdqRN2K/9027429-8234374160-v-C9-Yu-Ix56-Sm-Wnh-L6-MCWr0du9uy7-SQRxa0kd2-An-D73-Jg-Wz-NM3-Xv-Gu-GJ5x-X3w-QYeuha6-O6-Kq-IDw6-Ip9q-A6-A.jpg

Xavier was destroying planets in the microverse. It's a nothing burger.

Sentry and Genis were going toe to toe so it was a something burger, My point is that not every encounter with the Sentry is the same so just pawning him off as a no big deal encounter is wrong. You know that though of course even if you dont like to admit it.

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry and Genis were going toe to toe so it was a something burger, My point is that not every encounter with the Sentry is the same so just pawning him off as a no big deal encounter is wrong. You know that though of course even if you dont like to admit it.
Your point that they were destroying planets is nothing burger.

Originally posted by Thinkerer


Im only talking about the moment when he got like 10 rings when he went on a space rampage after losing Emerald City.

10 rings? He decimates Genis on implied power alone.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your point that they were destroying planets is nothing burger.

The writers intent was that it was a something burger. The energy they were omitting was destroying worlds. The other Avengers were getting rocked by it. Enough so that Genis knew if it continued, they would more than likely die so he BFR'd the Sentry and got out of dodge before he returned.

Originally posted by abhilegend
10 rings? He decimates Genis on implied power alone.

and what is that implied power

Originally posted by MrMind
and what is that implied power

His bias towards his boy Hal.

Originally posted by cdtm
Everyone "took on Sentry". Herc took him on, doesn't mean nothing.

Herc took him out... twice.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your point that they were destroying planets is nothing burger.

Sentry fans are so hungry for feats, they would be pleased even if Bob barely managed to survive an encounter with Stormtroopers or Redshirts haw-som

Originally posted by tkitna
The writers intent was that it was a something burger. The energy they were omitting was destroying worlds. The other Avengers were getting rocked by it. Enough so that Genis knew if it continued, they would more than likely die so he BFR'd the Sentry and got out of dodge before he returned.
Writer's intent doesn't override continuity. Originally posted by MrMind
and what is that implied power
Hal with the Krona's gauntlet (power of 12 GLs) beat ZH Parallax. Originally posted by Thinkerer
His bias towards his boy Hal.
If you just want to say Genis wins, just say it.

Why would I. You keep coming with straw dolls.

I don't see any scenario where Genis overpowers a ZH Parallax.

Too bad Zero Hour Parallax isnt in this fight.

Yeah, but I think I kinda of getting what they're saying

Sure, ZH Parallax isn't in this fight. But Hal with the Krona's gauntlet (power of 12 GLs) beat ZH Parallax.
And now Hal gets 10 or 12 rings in this fight(I.E, Hal gets power of 10 or 12 GLs)

At least, that's what I got from this conversation above. I think their point is this

Penis-Vell gone nuts

So given all of the Krona Gauntlet's feats, do we really think it "only" had the power of 12 GL Rings, or are we assuming that Parallax "only" had the power of less than 12 GL rings?

Huh? Parallax had power of 3600 rings. Hal had power of 12 rings.

Hence my comment.

Is the contention that Hal /w/ Krona's Gauntlet = 12 GL rings > ZH Parallax? Because the math isn't mathing for me. /shrug

Hal Jordan does nonsensical things like that all the time, just chalk it up to willpower.

^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.

For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.

Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.

For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.

Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug ya but according to the op pic, hal had 13 rings. would that make a difference?

^ That's just cover art.

Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC

...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.

So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered.

Finally someone who talks sense.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That's just cover art.

Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC

...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.

So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered. fair enough. been ages since i read those issues.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.

For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.

Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug The only relevant part of this post has been emphasized for justice. Originally posted by Galan007
^ That's just cover art.

Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC

...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.

So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.

For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.

Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug
TBH, the gauntlet was given sentience by Hal's own willpower. It really doesn't mean that Gauntlet had more power than 12 Lanterns, it only means Hal's willpower is absurdly powerful.

^ I definitely agree that Hal's willpower(especially since the Johns/Rebirth era) is pretty much unbounded, which is why he can do the ridiculous shit that he does.

I'm just saying that taking the statements made about the Gauntlet "only" having the power of 12 standard GL rings at face value, probably isn't the most reliable metric. As mentioned, those statements were made when Hal/Guy initially began interfacing with the Gauntlet, so that is what it may have felt like to them at first... Just a massive surge of raw power.

But as we know, the Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion:
https://ibb.co/D9GZQpQ
That is most likely why, during Venditti's run(as Hal grew more and more acclimated with the Gauntlet), it ended up being FAR more powerful than he first thought -- ultimately transforming Hal into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/will.

Think about it: Hal "God-Will" Jordan using a device that enables him to mainline willpower straight from its source? Yeah, 12 rings would have just been the starting point, me thinks. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I definitely agree that Hal's willpower(especially since the Johns/Rebirth era) is pretty much unbounded, which is why he can do the ridiculous shit that he does.

I'm just saying that taking the statements made about the Gauntlet "only" having the power of 12 standard GL rings at face value, probably isn't the most reliable metric. As mentioned, those statements were made when Hal/Guy initially began interfacing with the Gauntlet, so that is what it may have felt like to them at first... Just a massive surge of raw power.

But as we know, the Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion:
https://ibb.co/D9GZQpQ
That is most likely why, during Venditti's run(as Hal grew more and more acclimated with the Gauntlet), it ended up being FAR more powerful than he first thought -- ultimately transforming Hal into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/will.

Think about it: Hal "God-Will" Jordan using a device that enables him to mainline willpower straight from its source? Yeah, 12 rings would have just been the starting point, me thinks. /shrug
Not when it is clearly stated several times that the gauntlet has power of a dozen Lanterns.

https://i.postimg.cc/fTDRdvZk/image.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/X7L7ky7L/image.jpg

Its Hal's willpower that makes the difference. Guy with the gauntlet was casually owned by three guardians, one guardian casually destroyed his armor etc.

https://s22.postimg.cc/l9exrrvkx/RCO018.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/nqqoz1uwx/RCO019.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/6q7sqdpld/RCO020.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/q82g6bu8x/RCO021.jpg

^ I think you're missing my point.

Krona's Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion-entity.

As I said: 12-rings-worth of power was likely just the Gauntlet's starting point. When Hal subconsciously began tapping-into the full breadth of its power(against Parallax later in the same issue your scans are from), he metamorphosed into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/willpower:
https://ibb.co/ByRk0sk
https://ibb.co/ygZWfny
https://ibb.co/XLKXmNV
https://ibb.co/7Sn5Y97
...Which is why he was able to overpower Parallax.

ie. entity-Hal(after beginning to realize the Gauntlet's full power) > Parallax = his entire GLC/3,600 rings >>> initial Gauntlet Hal(who was only tapping into its basic 12-ring-levels of power.)


Moreover, while entity-Hal was forging his new ring, he sent tremors that reverberated throughout the entire emotional spectrum:
https://ibb.co/VHY4WLs
https://ibb.co/d7m0JcL
https://ibb.co/9yZ19mY
https://ibb.co/0VzNh5f

Hal became entity-level because Krona's Gauntlet was funneling willpower into him directly from its universal source. IOW, capping the Gauntlet at a scant "12 rings" or whatever is disingenuous, and ignores the Gauntlet's primary function/power source. It was ultimately more than that. A lot more.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think you're missing my point.

Krona's Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion-entity.

As I said: 12-rings-worth of power was likely just the Gauntlet's starting point. When Hal subconsciously began tapping-into the full breadth of its power(against Parallax later in the same issue your scans are from), he metamorphosed into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/willpower:
https://ibb.co/ByRk0sk
https://ibb.co/ygZWfny
https://ibb.co/XLKXmNV
https://ibb.co/7Sn5Y97
...Which is why he was able to overpower Parallax.

ie. entity-Hal(after beginning to realize the Gauntlet's full power) > Parallax = his entire GLC/3,600 rings >>> initial Gauntlet Hal(who was only tapping into its basic 12-ring-levels of power.)


Moreover, while entity-Hal was forging his new ring, he sent tremors that reverberated throughout the entire emotional spectrum:
https://ibb.co/VHY4WLs
https://ibb.co/d7m0JcL
https://ibb.co/9yZ19mY
https://ibb.co/0VzNh5f

Hal became entity-level because Krona's Gauntlet was funneling willpower into him directly from its universal source. IOW, capping the Gauntlet at a scant "12 rings" or whatever is disingenuous, and ignores the Gauntlet's primary function/power source. It was ultimately more than that. A lot more.
Its a conjunction that the gauntlet drew more power from CPB rather than Hal's willpower was simply too powerful.

There's no proof that it was more powerful than a dozen rings as stated multiple times.

^ Except for the fact that when Hal was initially using the power of 12 rings against Parallax(in the scans you posted), he was entirely ineffective... But when he dug deeper into the Gauntlet's power later in the issue(and went entity-mode), he overpowered Parallax quite easily.

Even Parallax himself commented on the difference/change in Hal at the end of their battle: "Look what you're becoming! You shouldn't exist!"

Originally posted by abhilegend
Writer's intent doesn't override continuity.
Hal with the Krona's gauntlet (power of 12 GLs) beat ZH Parallax.
If you just want to say Genis wins, just say it.

that wasn't zh parallax

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Except for the fact that when Hal was initially using the power of 12 rings against Parallax(in the scans you posted), he was entirely ineffective... But when he dug deeper into the Gauntlet's power later in the issue(and went entity-mode), he overpowered Parallax quite easily.

Even Parallax himself commented on the difference/change in Hal at the end of their battle: "Look what you're becoming! You shouldn't exist!"

Whether or not you disagree with Galan007, we should all remember that the version of Hal in this thread was the one during Emerald Twilight. So trying to conflate Hal w/ Krona Gauntlet with that version because of an arbitrary quantification via character statement is really incongruous to the spirit of the thread IMHO.

Anyway, Guy Gardner wins 9/10.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Except for the fact that when Hal was initially using the power of 12 rings against Parallax(in the scans you posted), he was entirely ineffective... But when he dug deeper into the Gauntlet's power later in the issue(and went entity-mode), he overpowered Parallax quite easily.

Even Parallax himself commented on the difference/change in Hal at the end of their battle: "Look what you're becoming! You shouldn't exist!"
He didn't dig deep into gauntlet's power, he was transformed into pure willpower (his own). Originally posted by MrMind
that wasn't zh parallax
Yes, it was.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't dig deep into gauntlet's power, he was transformed into pure willpower (his own).
Yes, it was.

convergence parallax was nowhere near his peak zero hour level and got thoroughly owned by gauntlet hal

Originally posted by MrMind
convergence parallax was nowhere near his peak zero hour level and got thoroughly owned by gauntlet hal If you don't like that one, if I recall right, in another earlier story rookie Hal Jordan also beat Zero Hour Parallax while he was tying up loose ends in time right before erasing everything. And that was with one basic ring.