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Who wins both at their best ?

Kingpin murderstomps.

at his best kraven gets prep and he wins. at his best without prep means he'll have some pretty wicked weapons so he could possibly still win without direct prep. if it's h2h in a ring kp wins but it's still not a stomp at all....

Kingpin has taken bullets and energy blasts to the face and was still standing. He's casually owned low level metahuman bricks like Tombstone and put Gray Hulk on his ass. Unless Kraven has adamantium level equipment, he's getting crushed.

Originally posted by zopzop
Kingpin has taken bullets and energy blasts to the face and was still standing. He's casually owned low level metahuman bricks like Tombstone and put Gray Hulk on his ass. Unless Kraven has adamantium level equipment, he's getting crushed.

Even with adamantium level equipment, that is no certainty.

Kingpin has a mysterium pimp cane these days.

Kraven the Hunter. He should be able to find a trail for the hunt.

Originally posted by leonidas
at his best kraven gets prep and he wins. at his best without prep means he'll have some pretty wicked weapons so he could possibly still win without direct prep. if it's h2h in a ring kp wins but it's still not a stomp at all....

https://i.imgur.com/MkzRAjM.png

No doubt Kingpin wins up-close. Kraven only chance is from long range to incapacitate by means of blow-darts or other similar hunting weapons. Although, not guarantee it will knock Kingpin out. Too bad, Kraven prefers and sticks to primitive weapons, which is completely ineffective.

Originally posted by ozz81
Who wins both at their best ?

It's Kingpin, not King Pin

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kingpin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(character)

Kraven wins

Kingpin wins

h1 cries

Story of his life.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's Kingpin, not King Pin

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kingpin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(character)

Lol cool Roger that !!

Originally posted by zopzop
Kingpin has taken bullets and energy blasts to the face and was still standing. He's casually owned low level metahuman bricks like Tombstone and put Gray Hulk on his ass. Unless Kraven has adamantium level equipment, he's getting crushed.

none of which matters since it wont't be bullets or energy but poisons that would be the big problem. if his poisons can take out spiderman (and they have, several times) they would certainly be dangerous to kp. at least enough to even the h2h odds if it came to that. and kraven has gone h2h with spidey many many times, and venom as well. he's easily handled man-wolf whose strength would be around tombstone.

if he has some new weapon in that cane ds mentioned that may change things--no idea because i've never seen it--but classic kp in this match? this is much closer than most think it would be.

Originally posted by leonidas
if he has some new weapon in that cane ds mentioned that may change things--no idea because i've never seen it--but classic kp in this match? this is much closer than most think it would be.
It's not new, he's always had it. He's just so powerful, he rarely needs to use it :
https://i.postimg.cc/S2yRy2MK/image.jpg

I was referring to this:

https://i.postimg.cc/YL7wYyBw/18-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/ftmN3QFK/19-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FkxXZghk/20-4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/N5gc0Vx6/21-4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/SjL4kqcQ/22-3.jpg

It's 'just' a normal cane, however. Doesn't shoot things or shocks or anything.

But this is what mysterium does to adamantium (for the oldies amongst us):

https://i.postimg.cc/VdGkPmcr/07.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/w7Tjr3nY/13-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/YjxS8Qnx/14-5.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
none of which matters since it wont't be bullets or energy but poisons that would be the big problem. if his poisons can take out spiderman (and they have, several times) they would certainly be dangerous to kp. at least enough to even the h2h odds if it came to that. and kraven has gone h2h with spidey many many times, and venom as well. he's easily handled man-wolf whose strength would be around tombstone.

if he has some new weapon in that cane ds mentioned that may change things--no idea because i've never seen it--but classic kp in this match? this is much closer than most think it would be.


Most people were this is strickly a h2h fight.
Even in a h2h fight Kingpin may win but it won't be easy as Kraven is faster, more agile, and has better reflexes and reaction speed. Kingpin is not significantly stronger either.

Speed, agility, poisons, weapons, etc is the reason why Kraven edges this out.

i don't think zop is that old ds....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was referring to this:

https://i.postimg.cc/YL7wYyBw/18-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/ftmN3QFK/19-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FkxXZghk/20-4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/N5gc0Vx6/21-4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/SjL4kqcQ/22-3.jpg

It's 'just' a normal cane, however. Doesn't shoot things or shocks or anything.

But this is what mysterium does to adamantium (for the oldies amongst us):

https://i.postimg.cc/VdGkPmcr/07.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/w7Tjr3nY/13-3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/YjxS8Qnx/14-5.jpg

Kingpin leads Kraven through a demonstration of mysterium's properties when inserted rectally.

Originally posted by leonidas
if it's h2h in a ring kp wins but it's still not a stomp at all....

Kraven spent his whole career getting assraped by the likes of Ka-Zar, Daredevil, Tigra and dying Old Man Logan... who bashed Kraven's face in w/ the hand that was missing Adamantium, too.

Oh, and Beast. Before his first blue form.

Kravinoff is a true Russian who can't fight unless it's one-sided prep and his opponents are drugged and poisoned.

lol "at his best" he's done a LOT more than that.... not that it would matter because drugged and poisoned is how this would end up given the stips here--even if at his best doesn't include prep.

that's all dependent on this being classic kp. the cane? meh. don't know enough but doubt the thread starter intended to include an apparently mjolnir level weapon lol

smurph we should bz this in the summer! been too long since we threw down in a bz! lol

btw meant to ask earlier--how goes things?? winning any massive cases? throw any crime lords in prison yet??

Any ...... kingpins??

Edit: for old man Leo, as you mentioned Mjolnir.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was outright laughing at Malekith, too, and this was after he had just been in a helicopter crash (hence the wounds):


https://i.postimg.cc/21bPDM6s/13.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/3y2VyG29/14-1.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/FYMwspk7/05.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
that's all dependent on this being classic kp.

This is not the Digimark Era of KMC, Leo. Nobody buys that nonsense anymore.

Originally posted by Smurph
Your first mistake is thinking that there's any differentiation between silver age and current Fisk. He continues to accrue superhuman feats. Just flip back a page in this thread and look at him chokeslamming Tombstone. "OHOTMU" is simply wrong - in fact, his most superhuman feats have been since OHOTMU.

Leo last read a comic in 2003.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol "at his best" he's done a LOT more than that.... not that it would matter because drugged and poisoned is how this would end up given the stips here--even if at his best doesn't include prep. But Kingpin at his best doesn't give one shit about chemicals in his system:
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


https://i.ibb.co/6DV4ytV/mpm1.png

https://i.ibb.co/f8rBZk6/mpm2.png

--

Of course, I can already feel Zopzop touching me under my computer desk, screaming in his girlish voice: "That's some bs! **** those new writers! Back in my day, that sort of thing would have never happened!"

Zop, stop it. I'm tired, maybe later.

And you're wrong, honey:

https://i.ibb.co/4FXTbx7/pm1.png

https://i.ibb.co/wQMvvmX/RCO015-1469320201.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/1Tmymhj/RCO016-1469320201.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas

smurph we should bz this in the summer! been too long since we threw down in a bz! lol Admittedly, Kraven has got some really good feats in recent years.

You should bz h1 in a Kraven vs King Shark match and banish him from the forum.

Originally posted by leonidas
btw meant to ask earlier--how goes things?? winning any massive cases? throw any crime lords in prison yet?? Won a series of high stakes arguments about Abhi's ability to read smurph

What about you???? Top of the NYT Best Sellers list yet?

Originally posted by leonidas
don't know enough but doubt the thread starter intended to include an apparently mjolnir level weapon lol

Mjolnir couldn't do anything to Terminus. Adamantium sliced clean through Terminus... twice.

Mjolnir might be good enough to fend off some wild Somalians, but sticks & stones work just as efficiently...

Current Kingpin could eat classic Kingpin:

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fisk once he got serious:

https://i.ibb.co/44Rfbyn/RCO021-1680803202-1.jpg

The shockwave from that blow was powerful enough to liquefy all of Leonidas' beautiful muscles. Irreversibly.

That's why he holds a grudge against Mighty Fisk.

so i see a scan of fisk...knowing things...? a scan of his being immune to purple man's pheremones? i mean so is cap and a few others? a scan of him...being beaten up by kurse? and a scan of him fighting hulk?

you know what i don't see? i don't see a scan that suggests he's immune to poisons that have taken out spidey, deadpool black panther and venom.

but sure--if you think we need to use a version of fisk that wields an asgardian weapon to beat kraven, or we need to use a version of him that can fight hulk, well, okay. lol

and for stilt--classic in this instance as defined by how he tends to appear in VS matches.... :facepalm:

as stated early on--i don't know what his cane can do. i highly doubt it would negate all the years of him NOT having it--unless that falls under the category of him "at his best" and he's had it often enough to count. if he has it sweet. congrats on....convincing me of something i admitted last page?

HOWEVER, if he doesn't have it--as the "classic" version in most of his vs matches does not--then no one has yet proven he can't be poisoned--either to the point of being severely weakened or outright killed.

now, going back to my original post where i said kraven could POSSIBLY win--that's because i do think fisk has at least a possible--though far more mundane--answer for the poison. it's way more fun watching you guys post pics of asgardians and battles with the hulk though let me save you the trouble of posting a pic of the alternate fisk wielding the IG. i suspect that version could beat kraven too.

@smurph--i saw some of that mess with abhi across a couple threads it's oddly comforting to know some things really do stay the same. no best sellers yet but i remain hopeful.

That Fisk wielded no Asgardian weapon, what are you talking about?

Also, you seem to not have Fisk 'at his best' i.e. if Kraven is getting prep and poisons, does Fisk not then get his criminal empire and I'm pretty sure he's pretty ok with planning and prep himself....

Originally posted by leonidas
Originally posted by leonidas

you know what i don't see? i don't see a scan

Leonidas Explorer:

https://i.ibb.co/XLRDDWX/54347b35832712b0ae8a88c767972686.png

Leo convinced me, Kingpin wins

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That Fisk wielded no Asgardian weapon, what are you talking about?

seemed the next logical step.



i didn't say kraven gets prep.... yeesh. i said at his best he would but doubt prep was intended here for either, but who knows? thread starter has failed to chime in. again though, if fisk gets his entire empire and all his assassins to use i suspect he could pull it out... cue facepalm (though it would make for an amazing story to see if kraven could plan a hunt that would lead to him killing fisk if he were hired to do so....)

anyway, more posts but nothing that shows fisk wouldn't be poisoned. and there's no need for at their best to make poison available to him--for kraven poison is very standard--he's used it countless times against almost everyone he fights.

despite the abhi-esque word-nastics i've seen in this thread, this is painfully simple--kraven can use and will use powerful poisons against fisk. all anyone has to do is prove they won't work for some reason. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
at his best kraven gets prep and he wins. at his best without prep means he'll have some pretty wicked weapons so he could possibly still win without direct prep. if it's h2h in a ring kp wins but it's still not a stomp at all....

I mean, this was your post. At his best, Kraven gets prep and he wins....

Does that mean in your initial scenario, he gets....onesided prep? Or that KP also gets prep, but that means nothing because Kraven's prep is better than KPs prep?

Isnt poisons (darts and such) standard equipment for Kraven?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, this was your post. At his best, Kraven gets prep and he wins....

Does that mean in your initial scenario, he gets....onesided prep? Or that KP also gets prep, but that means nothing because Kraven's prep is better than KPs prep?

yeah traditionally kraven does prepare for any enemy he plans to battle. does kp always do the same? not really imo--though there are obvious examples of him doing so from time to time--but the opening can be extended to pretty ridiculous extents. hence why i said i doubt that was the intent. i mean at their best kp has thousands of soldiers but they are fighting in the amazon jungle and kraven has had a year to prep for it....so i was sort of considering how they'd go at it if dropped in a ring. if that means kp gets that cane cool. kraven would def his his weapons as well.

which led to the simple question--how would kp survive or avoid getting attacked by poison weapons? if that cane has some huge aoe attack that disintegrates kraven cool,or if it has a shield cool. i simply said kraven could POSSIBLY win with poison and got...a lot of strangeness in return. /shrug

So I brought that cane up in response to Zop's point about adamantium weaponry - showing that in a direct head-to-head, adamantium is no longer the top of the pile.

As I said, it does not shoot anything (that we have seen). It's just a cane.

And yeah, if KP is planning to battle someone, or take someone down, he does....prep. That's literally what planning to battle someone is.

I posted the Kurse and Fixit showings to show in recent times, Kingpin has showings that classic Kingpin would love.

Against toxins? I guess that's what Smurph's scans were for - biological pheromones can just be tanked by KP. But that's probably his best bet,

Originally posted by Smurph


Won a series of high stakes arguments about Abhi's ability to read smurph



Its cute how you think you have won anything against me.

abhidur

Originally posted by leonidas


despite the abhi-esque word-nastics i've seen in this thread

Et tu, Leonitus?

😞😞😞

For one, Fisk is fast and skilled. It'll be up to Kraven to land hits with poison weapons.

More importantly, Fisks's durability and endurance is through the roof. Maybe if you provided more specifics about how you think a poison is going to bring Fisk down, we could look at the specifics of how their showings compare.

Attacking his mind? As I showed, Fisk has a history of just willpowering through pheromones.

Durability and endurance? Fisk has at least two showings iirc of being shot multiple times and just... tanking it. Bullets in his skin and bloodying his suit but doing nothing to him.

look at how many times Jessica Drew hits him, and... nothing

https://imgur.com/nLp6jpP

Originally posted by Smurph
For one, Fisk is fast and skilled. It'll be up to Kraven to land hits with poison weapons.

More importantly, Fisks's durability and endurance is through the roof. Maybe if you provided more specifics about how you think a poison is going to bring Fisk down, we could look at the specifics of how their showings compare.

Attacking his mind? As I showed, Fisk has a history of just willpowering through pheromones.

Durability and endurance? Fisk has at least two showings iirc of being shot multiple times and just... tanking it. Bullets in his skin and bloodying his suit but doing nothing to him.

look at how many times Jessica Drew hits him, and... nothing

https://imgur.com/nLp6jpP
What the actual phuck? Isn't she Spider-Man level strength wise? How were people saying he'd lose to Namorita on my "Kingpin vs" thread? This guy has better durability showings than most mid-tier bricks.

Originally posted by zopzop
What the actual phuck? Isn't she Spider-Man level strength wise? How were people saying he'd lose to Namorita on my "Kingpin vs" thread? This guy has better durability showings than most mid-tier bricks.
Spider-Man is significantly stronger than her.
She lifts a few tons on average (7 at peak).
She is about in Captain America's strength range.

Originally posted by Smurph
For one, Fisk is fast and skilled. It'll be up to Kraven to land hits with poison weapons.

More importantly, Fisks's durability and endurance is through the roof. Maybe if you provided more specifics about how you think a poison is going to bring Fisk down, we could look at the specifics of how their showings compare.

Attacking his mind? As I showed, Fisk has a history of just willpowering through pheromones.

Durability and endurance? Fisk has at least two showings iirc of being shot multiple times and just... tanking it. Bullets in his skin and bloodying his suit but doing nothing to him.

look at how many times Jessica Drew hits him, and... nothing

https://imgur.com/nLp6jpP

He's not as fast as Kraven. Not as agile either.
He's stronger though and more durable (not by a whole lot either).
But Kraven has speed, reactions, poisons, etc to match up against Kingpin's greater strength and durability.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's not as fast as Kraven. Not as agile either.
He's stronger though and more durable (not by a whole lot either).
But Kraven has speed, reactions, poisons, etc to match up against Kingpin's greater strength and durability. Scans of Kraven's speed, agility, strength, durability, reactions and poisons?

Originally posted by Smurph
For one, Fisk is fast and skilled. It'll be up to Kraven to land hits with poison weapons.

More importantly, Fisks's durability and endurance is through the roof. Maybe if you provided more specifics about how you think a poison is going to bring Fisk down, we could look at the specifics of how their showings compare.

Attacking his mind? As I showed, Fisk has a history of just willpowering through pheromones.

Durability and endurance? Fisk has at least two showings iirc of being shot multiple times and just... tanking it. Bullets in his skin and bloodying his suit but doing nothing to him.

look at how many times Jessica Drew hits him, and... nothing

https://imgur.com/nLp6jpP



if it comes to cqc kraven is a dead man. he's no slouch obviously, but kp would certainly end him there. his ONLY chance to walk out of an enclosed ring with fisk is poison. there are...loads of examples of the variety and efficacy of his poisons. maybe later i'll post a few but it really is a pretty standard method of attack for him. he has a host of standard weapons as well with which to deliver the poison--darts (he's got a small dart gun he always carries) he has a poisoned ring and of course his standard hunting knife and the poisoned tusks he wears on his belt.

fisk could no doubt fight off some of the effects of certain poisons through his durability but could he take out kraven before the poisons take him out? maybe. but i do think there's a chance the poisons can take fisk out first or weaken him to the point kraven could finish him physically--i mean kraven isn't exactly jarvis in this thing lol

Originally posted by Smurph
Scans of Kraven's speed, agility, strength, durability, reactions and poisons?

So you don't believe Kraven is faster and more agile and have better reactions than King Pin?
Or you do not know he has poison?

I never said he was stronger. So why strength feats?

Originally posted by h1a8
So you don't believe Kraven is faster and more agile and have better reactions than King Pin?
Or you do not know he has poison?

I never said he was stronger. So why strength feats? How much faster and how much more agile? How much better are his reactions? What kind of poisons, and how strong are they?

You said KP was "stronger though and more durable (not by a whole lot either)". So how close is the gap, exactly?

Before you start, I'm not asking for your estimates "based off what you have seen". Leo can give estimates because he has some credibility. You do not. So let's get some scans, or issue numbers, or even just describe the feats.

No special powers, he's just massive and like 5% bodyfat or something silly like that.

Some characters are so badass, they don't need superpowers.

Exactly how Superman gets assraped by Batman in 100% of their "team-ups".

Originally posted by Smurph
How much faster and how much more agile? How much better are his reactions? What kind of poisons, and how strong are they?

You said KP was "stronger though and more durable (not by a whole lot either)". So how close is the gap, exactly?

Before you start, I'm not asking for your estimates "based off what you have seen". Leo can give estimates because he has some credibility. You do not. So let's get some scans, or issue numbers, or even just describe the feats.

Kingpin is an 8-10 in strength and Kraven is like a 4.
The gap in speed and agility is enough to give Kraven a great chance of hitting King Pin with poison.
Poison strong enough to put down Spider-Man for starters. Then venom, black panther, man wolf, and some more

Fast to pounce Spidey even after Spidey's sense warned him
https://imgur.com/YJuM0Z0

Another
https://imgur.com/sUYiZwA

Runs faster than antelope
https://imgur.com/a/TuVPKif

Agility
https://imgur.com/Si6CGiy
https://imgur.com/zFprTgI
https://imgur.com/202xqdB

Originally posted by zopzop
What the actual phuck? Isn't she Spider-Man level strength wise? How were people saying he'd lose to Namorita on my "Kingpin vs" thread? This guy has better durability showings than most mid-tier bricks.

Hard to say what her exact "official" strength level is.

Most often she is said to be Class 7, so below Parker.

But I believe there are modern handbooks having her at 5/7 - which would be Class 25 to Class 75 range. And the Kingpin scan is very much modern - hell, it's the current era, as he's married to Mary.

--
Jessica is much more skilled than Parker - that's what matters.

Peter can't throw a punch if his life depended on it. He would tickle your balls and you'd think he was flirting with you.

Jessica had adventures with Wolverine and S.H.I.E.L.D. - she's well trained and superhuman.

Cheers.

Yeah, she's skilled. But I think the point is, even if you ballpark her at class 7, that was like 30 punches lol

Yes, it was quite a barrage of punches that achieved a whole lot of nothing against the Kingpin

Thanks for sharing this gem.

Originally posted by Smurph
Leo can give estimates because he has some credibility.

you think i'm credible...?

"some"