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Who wins?

Namor.

Homelander through HV

And, off we go.

Originally posted by h1a8
Homelander through HV
Namor casually dodges and deflects energy blasts from Wakandan aircraft and Ironheart multiple times. At one point he doesn't even look when Riri shoots at him and just nods his head out of the way. I don't see Homelander's heat vision being any different. In fact, it would be easier to avoid/deflect because unlike the energy blasts, it's a constant red beam that is easy to see and track.

https://imgur.com/a/bilp210
https://imgur.com/a/gPViq7d
https://imgur.com/a/6UEHgT9

Even if he did get hit, it wouldn't be an instant win. The Wakandans had to dry him out almost completely to weaken him enough to take him down. Getting zapped would piss him off, but it wouldn't beat him instantly, and he's far more maneuverable in the air than Homelander so I doubt he'd just continue to let himself be shot.

Namor wrecks him

Rather than take a beating Homelander just kills himself

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Rather than take a beating Homelander just kills himself

Lol. This is so true.

Namor wins.

Originally posted by KingD19
Namor casually dodges and deflects energy blasts from Wakandan aircraft and Ironheart multiple times. At one point he doesn't even look when Riri shoots at him and just nods his head out of the way. I don't see Homelander's heat vision being any different. In fact, it would be easier to avoid/deflect because unlike the energy blasts, it's a constant red beam that is easy to see and track.

https://imgur.com/a/bilp210
https://imgur.com/a/gPViq7d
https://imgur.com/a/6UEHgT9

Even if he did get hit, it wouldn't be an instant win. The Wakandans had to dry him out almost completely to weaken him enough to take him down. Getting zapped would piss him off, but it wouldn't beat him instantly, and he's far more maneuverable in the air than Homelander so I doubt he'd just continue to let himself be shot.

Look how slow he is swinging the spear. The HV would have tagged him before he moved 1mm.
Plus the HV is a sweeping beam, not small bursts. You can't punch away a sweeping beam.

His HV was shown to slice through durable material like a hot knife through butter. Namor has no feats showing he can withstand that type of heat.

For you science nerds, you can apply Newton's law of cooling/heating.
The speed in which the HV heated the durable metal to melting point (almost instantly) suggests that the HV is more than 10,000 degrees Celsius.

And don't forget that homelander is probably as strong as Namor., if not stronger Even if he's weaker (debatable) it's not by much. Namor is not going to one shot him or something. The HV is the game changer. Without HV Namor wins the majority.

I guess you didn't watch Black Panther: Wakanda Forever as to why Namor will not be beaten by HV and know that such reason exists here if he is actually hit by a sweeping easy to avoid beam.

Originally posted by riv6672
I guess you didn't watch Black Panther: Wakanda Forever as to why Namor will not be beaten by HV and know that such reason exists here if he is actually hit by a sweeping easy to avoid beam. Mr seeing the movie is precisely way I say he loses. Duh.
Do you even understand my argument?
1) special attributes are not given without proof.
Namor has no showings that prove he can resist a HV beam that is beyond 10,000 degrees Celsius. He dies instantly.

2). Namor has no showings that shows him fast enough to both
A) block the initial beam
B) continue to block a sweeping beam

His hand movement is far too slow.

Even if your argument is that he can block HV from a distance then he can't when up close in h2h range, especially while both are in fisticuffs.

His HV didn't kill Butcher or Soldier Boy when they fought and Namor appears to be above them strength and speed wise.

^^^Namor is LEAGUES above them in every way.

Originally posted by tkitna
His HV didn't kill Butcher or Soldier Boy when they fought and Namor appears to be above them strength and speed wise.
The HV has feats of being more than 10,000 degrees Celsius.

Well either
1) Those characters get that feat and are highly heat resistant, unlike Namor.
Or
2) Homelander used less power on them(proof is needed)
Or
3) Fiction inconsistency (you have to show them being harmed to heat less than the HV).

If Joe Blow resists 10,000 degree heat but gets his ass whipped by a 1 tonner then Joe is still heat resistant that gets ass whipped by 1 tonners. Lack of strength or speed does not disprove a fictional character's resistance to heat.

Your argument is faulty.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Namor is LEAGUES above them in every way.
Not in heat resistance apparently.

Neither of them even lifts.

Originally posted by Robtard
Neither of them even lifts.
Lifts? Lifts what? I don't understand.

Originally posted by Robtard
Neither of them even lifts.

Originally posted by h1a8
Lifts? Lifts what? I don't understand.
^This guy didn't get it

Originally posted by riv6672

^This guy got it

Went over my head

Originally posted by h1a8
Went over my head

As most everything does.

I don't know or care about your excuses or assumptions about Homelanders HV. All I know is two lesser characters than Namor survived direct hits from it and did just fine.

Originally posted by tkitna
As most everything does.

I don't know or care about your excuses or assumptions about Homelanders HV. All I know is two lesser characters than Namor survived direct hits from it and did just fine.


If they have feats resisting 10000+ degrees then that doesn't mean anyone stronger or faster than them can resist 10000+ degrees.
Namor doesn't get their heat resistant feats just because he is stronger and faster than them.

I have to ask because it'll be funny, but where are you coming up with 10000+ when all sites state it to be half or less than half of that?

Gotta go with Namor.

Namor wins. Homelander sucks so bad even Baleman could beat him.

Originally posted by tkitna
I have to ask because it'll be funny, but where are you coming up with 10000+ when all sites state it to be half or less than half of that?

One of his feats with his HV.
Homelander swiped a plane in half with his HV.

Using Newton's Law of cooling it takes more than 20000 degrees Celsius to melt the materials of a plane in less than 1 second.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Gotta go with Namor.

Not he gets hit with 10000+ degree Celsius HV.
He would be almost Vaporized

It's always been Celsius

Originally posted by h1a8
10000+

Originally posted by h1a8
Not he gets hit with 10000+ degree Celsius HV.
He would be almost Vaporized


Doubt it when he's on Thor/Hulk's level of strength.

With his Vibranium sword on top he's basically He-Man (if He-Man was a total d***).

Originally posted by h1a8
Not he gets hit with 10000+ degree Celsius HV.
He would be almost Vaporized

Would Hulk or Thor be vaporized too? Soldier Boy and Butcher weren't.

I haven't seen the new film what's Namor feat stats?

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
I haven't seen the new film what's Namor feat stats?

OkxQ2ZYYmj4

There's more, but this will give you a rough idea.

Originally posted by tkitna
Would Hulk or Thor be vaporized too? Soldier Boy and Butcher weren't.
Thor wouldn't. Soldier Boy and Butcher are 10000+ degree heat resistant.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Doubt it when he's on Thor/Hulk's level of strength.

With his Vibranium sword on top he's basically He-Man (if He-Man was a total d***).

Special attributes (insane heat resistance) must be proven through feats. Without feats, a character does not get special attributes.

Also
1) He's not fast enough to defend against a swiping HV BEAM
2)What feats against 10000+degree Celsius does his vibration spear has?It obviously can't withstand infinite amount of heat.No limits fallacy?

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor wouldn't. Soldier Boy and Butcher are 10000+ degree heat resistant.

So you think Thor is more durable than Hulk? You also think Soldier Boy and Butcher on the juice is more durable than Hulk? Lol. You have to realize how silly you sound.



Even though he has dodged and defended against swiping beams?

Homelander has shown no resistance to the hypnotic siren song that Talokanil used to make the soldiers on the ship jump to their deaths. Namor makes him kill himself with a lullaby.

Kukulkan rips him in half

Originally posted by h1a8
One of his feats with his HV.
Homelander swiped a plane in half with his HV.

Using Newton's Law of cooling it takes more than 20000 degrees Celsius to melt the materials of a plane in less than 1 second.

-Most passenger liners are constructed of aluminum, due to its high strength and relative low weight

-Aluminum melts at 660 Celsius


Now his HV would be higher than that at how quickly/effortlessly it cut, but your "20,000" figure is made up, you pulled it from your ass.

Originally posted by tkitna
So you think Thor is more durable than Hulk? You also think Soldier Boy and Butcher on the juice is more durable than Hulk? Lol. You have to realize how silly you sound.



Even though he has dodged and defended against swiping beams? Thor is more heat resistant than Hulk because of he has the feats.
SB and Butcher are more heat resistant than Hulk because they have the feats.

Being more durable against punches does not make you more resistant against heat.

In fiction you can have a character with human level strength and durability (against blunt force) able to resist great amount of high temperatures.

In reality, you have material that can resist great temperatures but are not bullet or stab proof.

So Hulk doesn't get someone's, whose weaker, feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor is more heat resistant than Hulk because of he has the feats.
SB and Butcher are more heat resistant than Hulk because they have the feats.

Being more durable against punches does not make you more resistant against heat.

In fiction you can have a character with human level strength and durability (against blunt force) able to resist great amount of high temperatures.

In reality, you have material that can resist great temperatures but are not bullet or stab proof.

So Hulk doesn't get someone's, whose weaker, feats.

Here's something for you to think about. Hulk was casually standing on Surtur while punching him. Surtur is hot enough that his heat can disrupt the Earths environment from light years away. Is that heat feat good enough for you?

^^^Thats a good feat.

You have experience in physics? -neutral face-

Originally posted by riv6672
You have experience in physics? -neutral face-

Yes. Was an engineering major before I changed it to mathematics (have a masters).
I took Physics 1, 2, and 3, classical mechanics, thermo, etc.
I teach and tutor math.
I tutor Physics 1 and general chemistry.

Originally posted by tkitna
OkxQ2ZYYmj4

There's more, but this will give you a rough idea.

I wish this website had a notification setting thank you!

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes. Was an engineering major before I changed it to mathematics (have a masters).
I took Physics 1, 2, and 3, classical mechanics, thermo, etc.
I teach and tutor math.
I tutor Physics 1 and general chemistry.
^^^Right. -neutral face-

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
I wish this website had a notification setting thank you!
^^^That and a ‘like’ option, yeah.

It affected Thor at the beginning of the movie.

Fair

This still stands:

Originally posted by Robtard
-Most passenger liners are constructed of aluminum, due to its high strength and relative low weight

-Aluminum melts at 660 Celsius


Now his HV would be higher than that at how quickly/effortlessly it cut, but your "20,000" figure is made up, you pulled it from your ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
This still stands:
I never stated 20 000 as the exact temperature. I stated that it is more than 20 000.

It's a problem in heat transfer and Newton's law of cooling.
20000 degree Celsius is required to make that amount of aluminum reach 660 degrees in 1.3 seconds.

It takes a hotter temperature than 20 000 degrees to make that amount of aluminum reach 660 degrees in 0.7 seconds (shown onscreen).

And it takes a hotter temperature to make the phase change from solid to liquid (enthalpy of fusion).

Do you need to see the steps of the Calculation?

^^^Make sure you copy/paste all the steps from ChatGPT.

Can ChatGPT draw pictures? Because it would draw a picture of a desperate guy shoving his fist into and pulling shits out from his own ass.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Make sure you copy/paste all the steps from ChatGPT. Ok daddy.
Well that settles this thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
Can ChatGPT draw pictures? Because it would draw a picture of a desperate guy shoving his fist into and pulling shits out from his own ass.
Really? Good to know.
I'll try to make it draw that (seriously).

Anyway, do you accept that the temperature has to be above 20 000 degrees Celsius? Or do you need to see it worked out?

^^^Cant speak for Robtard, but I for one am waiting for the ChatGPT results.

Originally posted by Robtard
but your "20,000" figure is made up, you pulled it from your ass.


I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Maybe not a completely one-sided matchup, but I'm giving the win to Namor.

Homelander can slice through a jet with his heat vision, but Namor can cut through solid vibranium with his spear.

Homelander can't 'push-off' thin air, as he states when he kills everyone on board the jet with Queen Maeve, but Namor literally looks like a figure skater in the sky when he is dogfighting with the Wakandan air force.

Queen Maeve stabbed Homelander with a metal straw in his ear, but Namor no-sold everything thrown at him in BP2 until he got the air fryer treatment from Shuri, and he still impaled her with his spear through her Black Panther outfit.

On the other hand, Homelander has a vastly superior ranged option with heat vision, plus his movement speed and flight speed (getting Butcher and the baby boy out of the exploding house and his zooming around the city sky looking for Transluscent) are superior, but his fights with Soldier Boy and Butcher don't demonstrate it in combat.

I'll give it to Namor for now, but could be talked over.

Originally posted by John Murdoch


Homelander can't 'push-off' thin air, as he states when he kills everyone on board the jet with Queen Maeve, but Namor literally looks like a figure skater in the sky when he is dogfighting with the Wakandan air force.



A lot of great points especially this ^

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Maybe not a completely one-sided matchup, but I'm giving the win to Namor.

Homelander can slice through a jet with his heat vision, but Namor can cut through solid vibranium with his spear.

Homelander can't 'push-off' thin air, as he states when he kills everyone on board the jet with Queen Maeve, but Namor literally looks like a figure skater in the sky when he is dogfighting with the Wakandan air force.

Queen Maeve stabbed Homelander with a metal straw in his ear, but Namor no-sold everything thrown at him in BP2 until he got the air fryer treatment from Shuri, and he still impaled her with his spear through her Black Panther outfit.

On the other hand, Homelander has a vastly superior ranged option with heat vision, plus his movement speed and flight speed (getting Butcher and the baby boy out of the exploding house and his zooming around the city sky looking for Transluscent) are superior, but his fights with Soldier Boy and Butcher don't demonstrate it in combat.

I'll give it to Namor for now, but could be talked over. The HV will one-shot Namor

Originally posted by h1a8
The HV will one-shot Namor

Prove it

What I said still stands

Supes are weak to sound, and the Talokanil have a siren song that can hypnotize people to commit suicide. Namor sings to Homelander and he offs himself.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
A lot of great points especially this ^

Much appreciated Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
The HV will one-shot Namor

I could be talked over to the other side, but I just don't buy the 'heat vision trumps all of Namor's efforts' argument. Yes, it is the best weapon, along with his speed, that Homelander has, but combat showings have Namor as way, way superior. All it takes is Namor dancing around HL in mid-air and getting some hits and slices in, and Homelander will go down due to mental and eventually physical fatigue.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Much appreciated Thor.



I could be talked over to the other side, but I just don't buy the 'heat vision trumps all of Namor's efforts' argument. Yes, it is the best weapon, along with his speed, that Homelander has, but combat showings have Namor as way, way superior. All it takes is Namor dancing around HL in mid-air and getting some hits and slices in, and Homelander will go down due to mental and eventually physical fatigue.

Namor has no feats that warrant him not being one shot by the HV.

The HV melted sliced a plane in half instantly.
It was thousands of degrees Celsius.

We use feats to prove special attributes, not baseless speculation or assumptions.

Namor does not dance around single combatants. He fights them head up.

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor has no feats that warrant him not being one shot by the HV.

The HV melted sliced a plane in half instantly.
It was thousands of degrees Celsius.

We use feats to prove special attributes, not baseless speculation or assumptions.



So by the same logic would you say Homelander cuts through MCU Hulk with his HV ?

Originally posted by h1a8

Namor does not dance around single combatants. He fights them head up.

Thats a strange assumption. Cant be that anal with your analysis.

He danced around the firepower of Wakandan ships, no reason to assume he wouldnt do the same against extremely dangerous HV blasts coming from an incredibly fast opponent with flight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This number is grossly inflated, imo. It assumes a clean cut, and assumes it cut all the way through, and it assumes he didn't just set things ablaze rather than sliced the plane.

The actual feat in question:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11117/111179644/8553078-6945789451-giphy.gif

It's like having people shoot a car with a tiny bullet, and the entire car explodes. Then proclaiming that the bullet imparts gigawatts of energy or w/ever.

He sliced the fuselage with heat (not a projectile) as shown. You see the path of the HV along with the slice of the plane. He set the plane ablaze in the process (inner portion has fabric for seats, etc)

The aluminum melted in a small fraction of a second (the whole feat took roughly 0.7 seconds). So that amount of aluminum in that amount of time. A differential equation problem to determine the temperature.

The exact temperature is actually irrelevant as anything beyond 1000 degrees will do some serious damage to Namor, not too mention weaken him immensely.

Um, Namor survived the exploding Wankandan ship whose explosions put out an excess of 30,000 C. Then the blast from the blasting engine easily exceeded 40,000 C. Because Wakandan tech and reasons.

^^^The math checks out.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^The math checks out.

I double checked it and its solid.

Originally posted by Robtard
Um, Namor survived the exploding Wankandan ship whose explosions put out an excess of 30,000 C. Then the blast from the blasting engine easily exceeded 40,000 C. Because Wakandan tech and reasons. Nice joke.
But anything above double the temperature Namor withstood will kill him.

Originally posted by h1a8
He sliced the fuselage with heat (not a projectile) as shown. You see the path of the HV along with the slice of the plane. He set the plane ablaze in the process (inner portion has fabric for seats, etc)

The aluminum melted in a small fraction of a second (the whole feat took roughly 0.7 seconds). So that amount of aluminum in that amount of time. A differential equation problem to determine the temperature.

The exact temperature is actually irrelevant as anything beyond 1000 degrees will do some serious damage to Namor, not too mention weaken him immensely.

It didn't cut all the way through, as you don't see the HV exiting on the other side of the plane. So NOT that amount of aluminium, which is my point. Hence, grossly inflated.

It also assumes the (stressed) plane didn't tear itself apart in midair once the initial cut occurred, helping the cut propagate through the fuselage. So Homelander isn't actually melting the skin further along the plane, it just looks that way because the internals are all ablaze (but we have no idea of the HV is actually melting the aluminium).

It's grossly inflated to assume 20,000 degree Celsius off that scene. Which is my point.

Victoria nosold a shot in the latest episode too. Homelanders heat vision is becoming more of a joke the further the series goes.

^^^Kind of like supporting him in this thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nice joke.
But anything above double the temperature Namor withstood will kill him.

Nope. Proof me wrong.

Nope. A baseless assertion.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nope. Proof me wrong.

Nope. A baseless assertion.

Not baseless.
The rules are:
A character has a special attribute in a forum fight
ONLY if there are feats/showings that give evidence towards it.

Since Namor wasn't shown to resist anything extremely hot then he doesn't get HV resistance in a forum fight.
Therefore he gets one shot here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It didn't cut all the way through, as you don't see the HV exiting on the other side of the plane. So NOT that amount of aluminium, which is my point. Hence, grossly inflated. The HV was shown to cut through the entire plane. A clean sweep. Im not sure what you are talking about.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It also assumes the (stressed) plane didn't tear itself apart in midair once the initial cut occurred, helping the cut propagate through the fuselage. So Homelander isn't actually melting the skin further along the plane, it just looks that way because the internals are all ablaze (but we have no idea of the HV is actually melting the aluminium).

It's grossly inflated to assume 20,000 degree Celsius off that scene. Which is my point.

The plane was being cut by the HV as the HV propagated upwards. There was no plane tearing itself apart behind the swipe.

You are clearly making stuff up.
In no way it appears that way to anyone who saw the scene.
It clearly appears (as intended) to slice the plane as it travels upward.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not baseless.
The rules are:
A character has a special attribute in a forum fight
ONLY if there are feats/showings that give evidence towards it.

Since Namor wasn't shown to resist anything extremely hot then he doesn't get HV resistance in a forum fight.
Therefore he gets one shot here.


Umm, I showed how Namor survived heat of 30k and 40k C using your same principals.

Originally posted by h1a8
The HV was shown to cut through the entire plane. A clean sweep. Im not sure what you are talking about.

We do not see the HV exiting the plane on the other side. So it did not cut all the way through. If it did, then you must prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
The plane was being cut by the HV as the HV propagated upwards. There was no plane tearing itself apart behind the swipe.

You are clearly making stuff up.
In no way it appears that way to anyone who saw the scene.
It clearly appears (as intended) to slice the plane as it travels upward.
How can you prove this?

We have real life examples of planes in flight tearing pieces off from minuscule stress cracks.

H1a8 isn't a real sciencer.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ah, I had forgotten about that series.

Well then, there it is, 500F. Impressive, but not so impressive in the superhero world.

Indeed. It's impressive, and hot enough that it immediately caused a sub-machinegun to turn red hot and explode because of the ammo in it, but nowhere near what h1 is creating with his Terrance Howard math.

"Terrance Howard math"

laughcry

Originally posted by Robtard
Umm, I showed how Namor survived heat of 30k and 40k C using your same principals. No you didn't. You just told a joke instead

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We do not see the HV exiting the plane on the other side. So it did not cut all the way through. If it did, then you must prove it.


How can you prove this?

We do not need to see the HV exit the plane in order to know it sliced the plane in half.

You see the other side of the plane completely melt and on fire BEFORE the plane separated.

Originally posted by h1a8
We do not need to see the HV exit the plane in order to know it sliced the plane in half.

You see the other side of the plane completely melt and on fire BEFORE the plane separated.

We don't. We see flames, which is just the internals of the plane catching fire. Which would still happen even if the HV didn't go all the way through.

The HV didn't slice all the way through. Thus your calculations are way off, as it didn't go through that volume of aluminium. If you can prove that it sliced all the way through, then show so.

And how do you prove there was no stresses on the fuselage that contributed to the plane breaking apart? Please do so.

Originally posted by KingD19
Indeed. It's impressive, and hot enough that it immediately caused a sub-machinegun to turn red hot and explode because of the ammo in it, but nowhere near what h1 is creating with his Terrance Howard math.

"Terrance Howard math"

Yeah if that's the actual quote that doesn't necessarily mean 500 degrees is his limit.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We don't. We see flames, which is just the internals of the plane catching fire. Which would still happen even if the HV didn't go all the way through.

The HV didn't slice all the way through. Thus your calculations are way off, as it didn't go through that volume of aluminium. If you can prove that it sliced all the way through, then show so.

And how do you prove there was no stresses on the fuselage that contributed to the plane breaking apart? Please do so.

You didn't address this.

Originally posted by h1a8

You see the other side of the plane completely melt and on fire BEFORE the plane separated.

Fire was OUTSIDE the plane as the beam was sweeping upwards.
That means the plane was completely melted on the other side (as to explain the fire escaping to the outside) AS the beam was sweeping. Simultaneously is the key.

Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't address this.



Fire was OUTSIDE the plane as the beam was sweeping upwards.
That means the plane was completely melted on the other side (as to explain the fire escaping to the outside) AS the beam was sweeping. Simultaneously is the key.

It was the internals being on fire, I already addressed this. Same way an itty bitty bullet makes an entire car explode, flames being on the other side of the plane just points to the internals being on fire and burning the plane.

Originally posted by h1a8
Since Namor wasn't shown to resist anything extremely hot then he doesn't get HV resistance in a forum fight.
Therefore he gets one shot here.


Except he has. He survives the explosion of the Royal Talon at the end despite already being severely dehydrated and weakened.

At most direct shots from Homelanders HV will slightly weaken him. But he can just dip back in the water to recharge and he is hard to hit in the first place between his speed/maneuverability in the air and his spear to absorb the shots.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Except he has. He survives the explosion of the Royal Talon at the end despite already being severely dehydrated and weakened.

At most direct shots from Homelanders HV will slightly weaken him. But he can just dip back in the water to recharge and he is hard to hit in the first place between his speed/maneuverability in the air and his spear to absorb the shots. Didn't look like a very hot explosion. It's not like a gasoline explosion or a nuclear bomb explosion. Could be a blunt force feat with very little heat experienced.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was the internals being on fire, I already addressed this. Same way an itty bitty bullet makes an entire car explode, flames being on the other side of the plane just points to the internals being on fire and burning the plane.

The plane was sealed. Nothing can escape the plane unless there is an open path. The fact that fire was outside the plane means there was an open path , hence that side was melted.

Bullets can't explode cars. Even if they could, HV isn't a bullet.

Originally posted by h1a8
The plane was sealed. Nothing can escape the plane unless there is an open path. The fact that fire was outside the plane means there was an open path , hence that side was melted.

Bullets can't explode cars. Even if they could, HV isn't a bullet.

Then you need to prove it was from the HV and not from the internals.

Bullets explode cars all the time in fiction. Here's the trope:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryCarIsAPinto

And

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsGoingDown

The assertion here is not that HV is a bullet, lol. Or like a bullet. The assertion is that the plane explodes in a fiery fireball due to well established tropes. Not my fault you can't understand basic fiction.

Originally posted by h1a8
Didn't look like a very hot explosion.


Silly response.

It was an explosion where the fire literally covers both Shuri and Namor.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Silly response.

It was an explosion where the fire literally covers both Shuri and Namor.

It was obviously a "cold fire" explosion, DT

Originally posted by Robtard
It was obviously a "cold fire" explosion, DT


Originally posted by Darth Thor
Silly response.

It was an explosion where the fire literally covers both Shuri and Namor.

Fire? What the hell are you talking about? I didn't see any fire in the explosion.

Wait you are talking about the engine thrust fire when they were on the island. That's not an explosion. Shuri just turned on the thrusters.
Namor got roasted in the back and was out of the fight.

How is that a good feat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then you need to prove it was from the HV and not from the internals.

Bullets explode cars all the time in fiction. Here's the trope:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryCarIsAPinto

And

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsGoingDown

The assertion here is not that HV is a bullet, lol. Or like a bullet. The assertion is that the plane explodes in a fiery fireball due to well established tropes. Not my fault you can't understand basic fiction.

The reason why a projectile has exploded a car in fiction is because some writers thought that penetrating the fuel tank or fuel line with a hot object (the bullet) will ignite all the gasoline in the car and create an explosion.

What internals?
The opening was created at the same time the beam was sweeping upward.That means the HV was DIRECTLY responsible.

Not only is HV not a bullet but if we were arguing for a bullet then I would still argue against you. Also the boys goes against traditional fiction in favor of more realistic physics (not that this matters one bit).

You are basically arguing just for the fun of debate.
We all know clearly, as portrayed, the HV beam slicing the plane in half.

Originally posted by h1a8
The reason why a projectile has exploded a car in fiction is because some writers thought that penetrating the fuel tank or fuel line with a hot object (the bullet) will ignite all the gasoline in the car and create an explosion.

What internals?
The opening was created at the same time the beam was sweeping upward.That means the HV was DIRECTLY responsible.

Not only is HV not a bullet but if we were arguing for a bullet then I would still argue against you. Also the boys goes against traditional fiction in favor of more realistic physics (not that this matters one bit).

You are basically arguing just for the fun of debate.
We all know clearly, as portrayed, the HV beam slicing the plane in half.

Responsible for a chain reaction that led to the plane breaking up? Sure.

Internals like fuel lines, furnishings, everything, making the plane's fuselage rupture. IRL, more realistic physics leads to airplane fuselages breaking apart under stress.

Moreover, in the scene you can clearly see the HV cutting through the windows as well - i.e. not aluminium. So back to the original point, the calculation is grossly inflated as not that amount of aluminium was melted.

Originally posted by h1a8


Wait you are talking about the engine thrust fire when they were on the island. That's not an explosion. Shuri just turned on the thrusters.

Okay you're right here. I thought she exploded the ship when she pressed the button, but it's as you say engine thrust fire.

Your only issue now is it was still fire.

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor got roasted in the back and was out of the fight.

How is that a good feat?


Yes he got roasted. After already being severely weakened. And it still didn't kill him. Didn't even KO him right? I mean he did surrender after that.

So how is this not a heat resistance feat? Shuri gets the end of the spray of fire and has to cover her face:

It's at 3:19. He's completely covered in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7kwCQgtTLo


I7kwCQgtTLo

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Responsible for a chain reaction that led to the plane breaking up? Sure.

Internals like fuel lines, furnishings, everything, making the plane's fuselage rupture. IRL, more realistic physics leads to airplane fuselages breaking apart under stress.

Moreover, in the scene you can clearly see the HV cutting through the windows as well - i.e. not aluminium. So back to the original point, the calculation is grossly inflated as not that amount of aluminium was melted. What chain reaction? Prove your physics.

The side opened up simultaneously as the beam swept upward, not afterward. A British Aerospace 125's fuselage contains no fuel; the fuel is stored in the wings, which supply the engines located there. Your argument is reaching.

It doesn't matter if a window was hit. The beam's upward motion speed remained constant throughout. The beam moved through the aluminum parts of the plane at the same speed as it did through the windows. If the windows were replaced with aluminum, the beam would still move upward at the same rate.

If that logic is unclear, apply the same calculation with less aluminum (subtracting the window part) and less time (because the beam spends less time going through the window) to get a similar result.

Now, please continue making things up and ignoring what was clearly shown. I look forward to seeing what your creativity produces next. Keep it coming.

Again: I do not need to prove all of this, the onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that that volume of aluminium was melted in that time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay you're right here. I thought she exploded the ship when she pressed the button, but it's as you say engine thrust fire.

Your only issue now is it was still fire.




Yes he got roasted. After already being severely weakened. And it still didn't kill him. Didn't even KO him right? I mean he did surrender after that.

So how is this not a heat resistance feat? Shuri gets the end of the spray of fire and has to cover her face:

It's at 3:19. He's completely covered in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7kwCQgtTLo


I7kwCQgtTLo

Namor did better than a real human. So yes he has a heat resistance feat.
But that heat is no where near the amount that can melt aluminum near instantly.

Plus Homelander has a good deal of superspeed.
Able to save Butcher from C4 explosion before it makes contact with him, etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Again: I do not need to prove all of this, the onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that that volume of aluminium was melted in that time.

You basically ignored what I said. I just proved that I didn't.
Reread the part about the the beam slicing through all materials with equal speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Again: I do not need to prove all of this, the onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that that volume of aluminium was melted in that time.

You basically ignored what I said. I just proved that I didn't. Reread the part about the beam slicing through all materials (aluminum and window) at equal speed. An all-aluminum makeup would have resulted in the same duration of time.

Imagine a sweeping laser vaporizing a series of 10 lined-up blocks, 8 made of aluminum and 2 made of acrylic glass. The beam sweeps through the aluminum blocks at the same speed as the acrylic blocks.

Therefore, replacing all the blocks with aluminum blocks means the beam would vaporize all 10 blocks in the same amount of time as the previous mixed set of 10.

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor did better than a real human. So yes he has a heat resistance feat.
But that heat is no where near the amount that can melt aluminum near instantly.

You're not factoring that he was severely weakened. His main issue with heat is he gets dehydrated which effects his strength. So if you're arguing an extended blast by Homelander's HV should weaken Namor, that's fair.

But you seem to be arguing that a single shot of HV is all he needs, which I think has been debunked here mainly due to a lack of evidence.

Originally posted by h1a8
Plus Homelander has a good deal of superspeed.
Able to save Butcher from C4 explosion before it makes contact with him, etc.

Now you're moving to different abilities so I'll take that as a concession on the HV being the all and end all factor here.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You're not factoring that he was severely weakened. His main issue with heat is he gets dehydrated which effects his strength. So if you're arguing an extended blast by Homelander's HV should weaken Namor, that's fair.

But you seem to be arguing that a single shot of HV is all he needs, which I think has been debunked here mainly due to a lack of evidence.



Now you're moving to different abilities so I'll take that as a concession on the HV being the all and end all factor here.
There is no evidence to suggest that being dehydrated reduces his resistance to extreme heat. But for the sake of argument, let's assume it does for now without proof.

**Argument 1:**
If the HV can melt aluminum instantly, it can vaporize any moisture on Namor in a fraction of a second.

**Argument 2:**
You are not understanding the difference in temperature between the HV and the fire that roasted his back.

Being burned and damaged but not killed by a much lower temperature while weakened does not mean he cannot be one-shot by a higher temperature when not weakened.

It's like arguing that since Namor didn't get killed by a lower temperature when weakened, he cannot be one-shot by an infinite temperature when not weakened.

Lastly, a character does not get special attributes without proof. There is no such thing as "lack of evidence" towards someone NOT having a special attribute (requiring proof of a negative). No evidence = no special attribute.
Those are the rules.

I just became aware of Homelander's speed feats. Therefore he can win without the HV.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is no evidence to suggest that being dehydrated reduces his resistance to extreme heat.

Have you not seen the movie? They dehydrated him to make him vulnerable. Otherwise he was pretty Invincible to the Wakandans, who have the most advanced tech/army on Earth.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume it does for now without proof.

Originally posted by h1a8
**Argument 1:**
If the HV can melt aluminum instantly, it can vaporize any moisture on Namor in a fraction of a second.


Don't repeat this when DarkSaint85 has thoroughly debunked your "proof" of this.


Originally posted by h1a8
**Argument 2:**
You are not understanding the difference in temperature between the HV and the fire that roasted his back.

And you're having severe trouble understanding how severely weakened Namor already was at that point.

The main difference is his staff isn't going to block being engulfed in fire, but it will block energy blasts.


Originally posted by h1a8
Lastly, a character does not get special attributes without proof. There is no such thing as "lack of evidence" towards someone NOT having a special attribute (requiring proof of a negative). No evidence = no special attribute.
Those are the rules.

What special attributes? You claimed Namor had zero durability feats against heat. I explained to you how even a severely depleted Namor wasn't killed or even KO'd by being completely engulfed in fire.

Homelander also isn't trapping Namor here, who can dip back into water anytime he likes.



Originally posted by h1a8
I just became aware of Homelander's speed feats. Therefore he can win without the HV.


So you're trying to completely change your argument for why Homelander wins. Sounds like a concession to your original point.

Originally posted by h1a8
I just became aware of Homelander's speed feats. Therefore he can win without the HV.

Page after page of arguing and you just now became aware of Homelanders speed feats?

Sounds legit.

So it's settled, Namor takes this. Glad we're all in consensus

^^^Done.

Originally posted by h1a8
You basically ignored what I said. I just proved that I didn't. Reread the part about the beam slicing through all materials (aluminum and window) at equal speed. An all-aluminum makeup would have resulted in the same duration of time.

Imagine a sweeping laser vaporizing a series of 10 lined-up blocks, 8 made of aluminum and 2 made of acrylic glass. The beam sweeps through the aluminum blocks at the same speed as the acrylic blocks.

Therefore, replacing all the blocks with aluminum blocks means the beam would vaporize all 10 blocks in the same amount of time as the previous mixed set of 10.

But the energy required would not be the same, to laser through 8blocks of aluminium+ 2 blocks of acrylic, Vs 10 blocks of aluminium (your initial assertion).

So your original post about his HV being able to go up to 20,000 degrees C is grossly inflated, as I said.

Double post

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But the energy required would not be the same, to laser through 8blocks of aluminium+ 2 blocks of acrylic, Vs 10 blocks of aluminium (your initial assertion).

So your original post about his HV being able to go up to 20,000 degrees C is grossly inflated, as I said.


The logic might have been unclear. Let me simplify it further.

Line up five blocks in a row from left to right on a flat surface. Have a laser sweep at a constant speed from left to right, destroying them one at a time over a total of 5 seconds.

What's the rate at which the laser, moving at that speed, CAN destroy blocks lined up in a row? It's 1 block per second, right?

Now, repeat the process but remove the middle block.

What's the rate at which the laser, moving at that speed, CAN destroy the remaining blocks? Is it 0.8 blocks per second or still 1 block per second?

Did removing the middle block change the rate of the CAN ?

If you say yes, then you're either mistaken or not understanding the concept. Removing a block does not change the rate at which the laser CAN destroy blocks.

If this is still unclear, just calculate the destruction of the first block in the first second to achieve the same rate.

But your entire post on the temperature was predicated on the HV melting X volume of aluminium in Y time.

My point is that the X volume of aluminium is too much. Thus, the temperatures reached is grossly inflated.

Btw is there any evidence he can change the temperature of his HV? Like lessen the temperature if he wants to hold back? Or increase the temperature if he's going all out?

If not then it's just 500 degrees as stated on the animated show.

He's used it to heat up bottles of milk before, so I'd assume so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's used it to heat up bottles of milk before, so I'd assume so.


Ah okay.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ah okay.

And not only that. He can slice people apart easily even through helmets and kevlar, but used a weakened blast to slowly kill Stillwell in S1 finale.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But your entire post on the temperature was predicated on the HV melting X volume of aluminium in Y time.

My point is that the X volume of aluminium is too much. Thus, the temperatures reached is grossly inflated.

Bad logic (your conclusion does not follow from your premises).

Aluminum is too much as well as the time.
I counted the time where the HV was hitting the window.
I proven that the rate stays the same.

Fill in the window with aluminum and count the time
Or
Keep the window and subtract the extra time to achieve the same result.

Originally posted by h1a8
Bad logic (your conclusion does not follow from your premises).

Aluminum is too much as well as the time.
I counted the time where the HV was hitting the window.
I proven that the rate stays the same.

Fill in the window with aluminum and count the time
Or
Keep the window and subtract the extra time to achieve the same result.
But the amount of energy required to melt acrylic is much less than that of aluminium.

So the rate staying the same means nothing. Walk us through your calculations, like you did in the other thread. Start with assumptions etc. This is the only way to help you see your mistake.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But the amount of energy required to melt acrylic is much less than that of aluminium.

So the rate staying the same means nothing. Walk us through your calculations, like you did in the other thread. Start with assumptions etc. This is the only way to help you see your mistake.

Lack of understanding.
The HV was melting the aluminum at a specific rate.
The energy involved is irrelevant.
It's all about the rate.

I never calculated the total energy at all.
Where do you get energy from?

Well, pedantry eh?

Ok, let's get back to basics - show your workings out, to arrive at the HV being at a temperature of 20,000 degrees C. All assumptions.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, pedantry eh?

Ok, let's get back to basics - show your workings out, to arrive at the HV being at a temperature of 20,000 degrees C. All assumptions.


I have completed the calculations, but before presenting them, let's establish some fundamental principles.

Imagine 5 blocks, equally spaced in a row. A laser sweeps at a constant rate of 1 block per second, destroying all 5 blocks in 5 seconds. Thus, the laser can destroy 1 block per second.

Now, if the middle block is removed, the laser will still destroy the existing 4 blocks in 5 seconds. We know that if the middle block were present, it would also be destroyed, maintaining the laser's destroy rate of 1 block per second. The missing block does not change the laser's capability, only the result of its action.

Applying this principle to Homelander's feat: Even though part of the plane was made of windows, if it were all aluminum, the heat vision would still sweep and melt the plane at the same rate.

Therefore, it is reasonable to calculate the feat as if the entire plane were aluminum, as this does not affect the heat vision's capability.

With that established, I can post the calculation upon command.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have completed the calculations, but before presenting them, let's establish some fundamental principles.

Imagine 5 blocks, equally spaced in a row. A laser sweeps at a constant rate of 1 block per second, destroying all 5 blocks in 5 seconds. Thus, the laser can destroy 1 block per second.

Now, if the middle block is removed, the laser will still destroy the existing 4 blocks in 5 seconds. We know that if the middle block were present, it would also be destroyed, maintaining the laser's destroy rate of 1 block per second. The missing block does not change the laser's capability, only the result of its action.

Applying this principle to Homelander's feat: Even though part of the plane was made of windows, if it were all aluminum, the heat vision would still sweep and melt the plane at the same rate.

Therefore, it is reasonable to calculate the feat as if the entire plane were aluminum, as this does not affect the heat vision's capability.

With that established, I can post the calculation upon command.
Cool.

So start with the assumptions, then show your working. I see the first assumption you are using is that it is continuous aluminium (i.e. assumption that there are no windows etc), based on the above reasoning.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

So start with the assumptions, then show your working. I see the first assumption you are using is that it is continuous aluminium (i.e. assumption that there are no windows etc), based on the above reasoning.



Homelander's HV feat calculation

or more cleaner

Homelander's HV feat Calculation (Pretty Print)

Yeah, straightaway I have pinpointed where your calculations are wrong. Your heat transfer coefficient is wildly over optimistic, seeing as it assumes a mass and surface area of aluminium that assumes no windows.

As I said from the start.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, straightaway I have pinpointed where your calculations are wrong. Your heat transfer coefficient is wildly over optimistic, seeing as it assumes a mass and surface area of aluminium that assumes no windows.

As I said from the start.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

So start with the assumptions, then show your working. I see the first assumption you are using is that it is continuous aluminium (i.e. assumption that there are no windows etc), based on the above reasoning.

Also, in this case, mass is directly proportion to surface area. Reducing the mass (exclude the windows) also reduces the surface area by the SAME FACTOR.

One more thing. Man made lasers have heated aluminum to over 3 million degrees. 20,000 degree Celsius is nothing compared to that. So I don't see how 20000 is overly optimistic. It's really a gross lowball estimate. I didn't even include the mass of the stringers and formers (which add significant more mass of aluminum).
He cut the plane at 60 degrees. That means the length of the cut is significantly bigger than the height of the plane. Again more mass.

The thickness of a plane's skin can be over 2 mm and about 1.4mm average for smaller planes. I used 1 mm. That's 40 percent less mass I used.

Lastly I assumed he just heated the aluminum to 660 (the beginning of being melted) when in reality it could have been heated to over 1000 degrees.

I took liberty to lowball every number instead of at least using averages.

Originally posted by h1a8


Yup. I wanted to make clear what you were doing.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, in this case, mass is directly proportion to surface area. Reducing the mass (exclude the windows) also reduces the surface area by the SAME FACTOR.

One more thing. Man made lasers have heated aluminum to over 3 million degrees. 20,000 degree Celsius is nothing compared to that. So I don't see how 20000 is overly optimistic. It's really a gross lowball estimate. I didn't even include the mass of the stringers and formers (which add significant more mass of aluminum).
He cut the plane at 60 degrees. That means the length of the cut is significantly bigger than the height of the plane. Again more mass.

The thickness of a plane's skin can be over 2 mm and about 1.4mm average for smaller planes. I used 1 mm. That's 40 percent less mass I used.

Lastly I assumed he just heated the aluminum to 660 (the beginning of being melted) when in reality it could have been heated to over 1000 degrees.

I took liberty to lowball every number instead of at least using averages.

Wut. I see you're doubling down on your error now, let me explain:

Mass is proportional to volume, not surface area, and it NEVER is unless you're having a uniform lamina. Which you're not. So it's not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yup. I wanted to make clear what you were doing.



Wut. I see you're doubling down on your error now, let me explain:

Mass is proportional to volume, not surface area, and it NEVER is unless you're having a uniform lamina. Which you're not. So it's not.

What error? I just proved using an all aluminum design is 100% valid in proving what the HV is capable of. Just because you don't understand the proof doesn't make it invalid. You accepted the proof. Now you trying to back track lol.

Also, I said, "in this case" surface area is proportional to the mass.
The shape of the cross section of the fuselage is approximately uniform.
Therefore any deviations will result in error in less than 5% error.
The MANY lowball assumptions does more to compensate for any small deviations.

Originally posted by h1a8
What error? I just proved using an all aluminum design is 100% valid in proving what the HV is capable of. Just because you don't understand the proof doesn't make it invalid. You accepted the proof. Now you trying to back track lol.

Also, I said, "in this case" surface area is proportional to the mass.
The shape of the cross section of the fuselage is approximately uniform.
Therefore any deviations will result in error in less than 5% error.
The MANY lowball assumptions does more to compensate for any small deviations.

Me repeating your assumption is not accepting it, you misunderstood. I am trapping you by making sure everyone can see clearly your wrong assumptions.

I know you said 'inthis case' - hence my use of the word Never.

Prove this 5% figure, now. Because you are again making wild leaps of assumptions, and no amount of pretty formatting is saving you lol.