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Fist fight between H'el and World Forger. No gimmicks besides speed, strength and durability.

Forger doesn't even register him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Forger doesn't even register him.

Why not? Show me fts proving this.

H'el is FAR faster, strong enough to hurt him, and durability shouldn't even matter here since H'el will knock him out before WF even realized he was in a fight.

WF

Originally posted by carver9
H'el is FAR faster, strong enough to hurt him, and durability shouldn't even matter here since H'el will knock him out before WF even realized he was in a fight.
Why are you so goddamn retarded?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Forger doesn't even register him. Agree

Originally posted by abhilegend
Forger doesn't even register him.

How would WF even land an attack?

by using speed like he did here-

https://i.postimg.cc/tC1QQvbV/0.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Cx1469pW/00.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
How would WF even land an attack?

He's fast enough to do this:
https://i.postimg.cc/x8L2rQHH/Speed.png

Imagine being fast enough to intercept a raging Tyson in his prime, being fast enough to react and stop his fist mid-swing with a finger. That's speed and precision right there.

Edit: lmao damn you DP.

But gotta laugh at how suddenly, speed negates durability.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
by using speed like he did here-

https://i.postimg.cc/tC1QQvbV/0.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Cx1469pW/00.jpg

Superman was weakened here. Anything else?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's fast enough to do this:
https://i.postimg.cc/x8L2rQHH/Speed.png

Imagine being fast enough to intercept a raging Tyson in his prime, being fast enough to react and stop his fist mid-swing with a finger. That's speed and precision right there.

Edit: lmao damn you DP.

But gotta laugh at how suddenly, speed negates durability.

Superman is weakened. What else you got?

How much weakened?

Remember, in this story, whilst struggling to lift himself up, he was still capable of shattering planets.

Doesn't matter. He's weakened. Also, how fast was Superman going there? Remember, if we are using his upmost fastest, I want you to do the same for Hulk, Thor, etc ...

Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't matter. He's weakened. Also, how fast was Superman going there? Remember, if we are using his upmost fastest, I want you to do the same for Hulk, Thor, etc ...

Well he's obviously stronger than when he shattered that planet, as he is perfectly fine standing up

So maybe....2x planet shattering strength? 5x? Yet Forger still caught him casually and flipped him. Insane speed and precision there, to casually catch an amped planet buster with a finger.

How fast was he going? Stay on topic.

Originally posted by carver9
How fast was he going? Stay on topic.

I AM on topic, though? You're the one bringing Thor and Hulk lmao into this thread when they are not here.

Superman in this story (remember your use of DoS? Lmao) shattered a planet afterwards:
https://i.postimg.cc/yd2tjGDG/Power.png

So since the scans DP and I provided were BEFORE this, and unless you can show him getting amped in between (lol), then he's...more powerful than planet shattering power in the scans provided.

And WF still managed to stop him with a finger. Insane.

So how fast was he going against World Forger? I'll show you later why I am mentioning Hulk and Thor. I think you know why.

Originally posted by carver9
So how fast was he going against World Forger? I'll show you later why I am mentioning Hulk and Thor. I think you know why.

Well, to shatter a planet you need:
https://i.postimg.cc/0jQG655R/Punch.png

And he looks like he's really trying against WF. Bloody knuckles and all. So since in the same storyline he can punch at 8.65km/sec whilst SEVERELY weakend, I would maybe.....double this, to be conservative?

In short, it is at LEAST 8.65km per second, possibly 2x, 5x, 10x more.

So Sentry didn't look like he was really trying against Hulk? Remember, we recently had a discussion about this. Also, the planet shatter happened AFTER his fight against WF, not during. So again, how fast was he going?

Originally posted by carver9
So Sentry didn't look like he was really trying against Hulk? Remember, we recently had a discussion about this. Also, the planet shatter happened AFTER his fight against WF, not during. So again, how fast was he going?

Yes, so when he was MUCH weaker, he still could shatter planets. I know, thanks for supporting me there.

So LOGICALLY, he is STRONGER here with WF, yes/no? Or are you saying Superman amped himself with.....dynamic strength?

I already said a lower limit, see above.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, so when he was MUCH weaker, he still could shatter planets. I know, thanks for supporting me there.

So LOGICALLY, he is STRONGER here with WF, yes/no? Or are you saying Superman amped himself with.....dynamic strength?

I already said a lower limit, see above.

He's weaker, as stated on panel. Yes, he destroyed a tiny ass planet, but he was still said on panel to be weakened.

There's no evidence that Superman even threw a fast punch there. If you're saying all of his punches are super speed, we need to visit all of his Wonder Woman vs Superman fights. I'm sure you'll have a change of heart when I show you her dodging his punches.

Originally posted by carver9
He's weaker, as stated on panel. Yes, he destroyed a tiny ass planet, but he was still said on panel to be weakened.

There's no evidence that Superman even threw a fast punch there. If you're saying all of his punches are super speed, we need to visit all of his Wonder Woman vs Superman fights. I'm sure you'll have a change of heart when I show you her dodging his punches.

Planets are planets, though. It's still far and beyond what 99% of characters in Marvel/DC have done, PLUS he was severely SEVERELY weakened. I am 100% agreeing with you tha he was weakened, I am saying that even in an even WEAKER state he was still able to shatter planets.

So you are asserting he is throwing slow punches there? Burden of proof is on you, mate.

yeah superman was enraged and actively trying to stomp wf with his planet shattering strength, but his punches were in slow-mo apparently. lol.

He was enraged enough to try and kill WF? no!!! Also, does this apply to Gladiator who was trying to kill the Hulk but got out reacted? Does this apply to Sentry who was trying to kill the Hulk but got out reacted? Is this just a Superman thang? What about Hyperion vs Hulk? Hyperion even mentioned he was trying to kill the Hulk. While we are at it, tell me how fast Superman was punching at WF. It needs to be fast AF for him to even register to someone like H'el.

stop bringing other characters into this lol.

you acted as though an enraged superman was throwing a slow punch at wf. that would make no sense in this situation, but if that is what you are asserting then prove it.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
stop bringing other characters into this lol.

you acted as though an enraged superman was throwing a slow punch at wf. that would make no sense in this situation, but if that is what you are asserting then prove it.

I said there's zero evidence evidence that it's a super speed punch. How fast is the lunch and I want proof of whatever number you give. Thanks

so an enraged superman isn't using his speed when throwing punches that are intended to drop wf? wow.

Well, let's try the reverse, then Carvy.

How fast is H'el, that he can ignore durability (lol)? Durability is 'always on', though, so remember this:
Originally posted by carver9
H'el is FAR faster, strong enough to hurt him, and durability shouldn't even matter here since H'el will knock him out before WF even realized he was in a fight.

And remember that Flash vs anyone (Hulk etc) will always be there if you want to argue speed.

But by-the-by. How fast are H'el's punches, and give a speed with proof.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so an enraged superman isn't using his speed when throwing punches that are intended to drop wf? wow.

Nope, unless proof is provided, it's a hard no. Show me that proof.

Originally posted by carver9
H'el is FAR faster, strong enough to hurt him, and durability shouldn't even matter here since H'el will knock him out before WF even realized he was in a fight.

Prove that he's so fast durability can be ignored. Give a speed with proof.

Its likely that that punch was at Supes max speed.

Originally posted by carver9
He's weaker, as stated on panel. Yes, he destroyed a tiny ass planet, but he was still said on panel to be weakened.

There's no evidence that Superman even threw a fast punch there. If you're saying all of his punches are super speed, we need to visit all of his Wonder Woman vs Superman fights. I'm sure you'll have a change of heart when I show you her dodging his punches.
That planet was dense enough to stop Superman from flying off, its the heaviest planet anyone could destroy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That planet was dense enough to stop Superman from flying off, its the heaviest planet anyone could destroy.


World Forger specifically states that Galaxy was built to hold Superman. Superman was getting weaker by the second. Things were not normal there and Superman being unable to fly off is proof of that. Superman floating back to the same spot once he die is proof of that (happened to the other Supermen that left the planet). Density had nothing to do with any of this.

Originally posted by carver9
Nope, unless proof is provided, it's a hard no. Show me that proof.

Also, in regards to the punch. I'll say this again.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prove that he's so fast durability can be ignored. Give a speed with proof.

Since we are using real world crap, prove that Superman punched at World Forger with planet bust strength. The shockwaves alone would put a big ass crater in the planet. Here you go, start here...

https://i.ibb.co/RHBggxQ/Screenshot-20250105-113828.png

Also, World Forger got out the word 'sigh' before Superman punch connected which makes it slower than sound.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prove that he's so fast durability can be ignored. Give a speed with proof.

So I guess we have nothing for H'el against WF, eh? Lemme know when you find something

H'el moved so fast that he went from Metropolis to Supergirl sanctuary in the middle of the Atlantic and grabbed Superboy before Superman even realized he left and came back. The words are there for you to know it's a speed ft, lol..


https://i.ibb.co/xJQTQS3/y9V9rV9.jpg
upload image

So what's the speed of his punches, and how fast does he have to be to ignore durability (lol)?

Fast enough to casually lift his hand on a full powered blitzing Superman and telekinetically wrap him up...

https://i.ibb.co/8YhHVH5/uu1xfx6.jpg
upload image

Fast enough to punch blitz Superman and ko him before he could react (his punch would have to match his blitzing speed to pull this off)...

https://i.ibb.co/gz6sSH5/yVMHdkt.jpg
upload image

Able to lift his hand and push a blitzing Superman to the side. A FULL POWERED blitzing Superman...

https://i.ibb.co/HDMMSVL/7NsXLvQ.jpg
upload image

So...what's the speed, and I want proof of these numbers?

The speed is him>>>>Superman. Start there. And not a weakened Superman either.

Originally posted by carver9
The speed is him>>>>Superman. Start there. And not a weakened Superman either.

So what's the speed, and I want proof of whatever number you give. Not sure why you are having such a hard time (lol) with this? I've been asking for like the 5th time now, all I am asking is for you to back this assertion up:

Originally posted by carver9
H'el is FAR faster, strong enough to hurt him, and durability shouldn't even matter here since H'el will knock him out before WF even realized he was in a fight.

With a speed number.

Here's your answer. Wasn't difficult to find at all and this is low balling the showing since Superman himself couldn't see or detect his movement.

https://i.ibb.co/wBtJPJY/Screenshot-20250105-141813-Chrome.png
upload image

So travel speed is equal to punching speed? Interesting.

Also, what are his powers? This H'el sounds super interesting.

Lmmfao, you know who H'el is and he punches WF to sleep before WF even realize he's in a fight. Also, that showing is more than just a flight showing. Heck, there's no proof that he flew to do any of that.

Originally posted by carver9
Lmmfao, you know who H'el is and he punches WF to sleep before WF even realize he's in a fight. Also, that showing is more than just a flight showing. Heck, there's no proof that he flew to do any of that.

So you're saying he could've just teleported in that showing?

Uhhh New York is on the Atlantic Coast already, why would you have to travel the speed of light? That makes no sense.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Uhhh New York is on the Atlantic Coast already, why would you have to travel the speed of light? That makes no sense.

It's the speed in which he did it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're saying he could've just teleported in that showing?

Or part flew, part teleported? Hmm. What's the point of it then?

Is that was the scan said? I'm sure it referenced speed. Let me know

Originally posted by carver9
Lmmfao, you know who H'el is and he punches WF to sleep before WF even realize he's in a fight. Also, that showing is more than just a flight showing. Heck, there's no proof that he flew to do any of that.
This you?

Yep, which means he could've ran.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, which means he could've ran.

Did it say that in the scan?

What I get from you is that H'el left and got Superboy so quickly that Superman didn't see him.

He also has teleportation powers. And it was done all off panel.

So again, let me know when you have a punching speed (travel speed is the same now???) and give me proof of these numbers.

I'm just basing that off him standing there before he left and not being in the air.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm just basing that off him standing there before he left and not being in the air.

So nothing. Let me know when you have something concrete. Teleportation/travel speed =/= punching speed.

Or maybe it does for you. Lemme know.

The scan didn't say teleportation. The scan mentions speed. The proof is on you to show him teleporting.

H'el moved the entire fortress of solitude before any of the JLA members knew what was going on. Superman thought he threw it. Your famous word is there, instant...


https://i.ibb.co/fx7cTVD/kbcAI7F.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
H'el moved the entire fortress of solitude before any of the JLA members knew what was going on. Superman thought he threw it. Your famous word is there, instant...


https://i.ibb.co/fx7cTVD/kbcAI7F.jpg

Mine? Where?

Also, so nothing for his punching speed? I am fascinated how all this is transferring into punching speed for the thread

Originally posted by carver9
The scan didn't say teleportation. The scan mentions speed. The proof is on you to show him teleporting.

The scan doesn't say flight or running either, yet you seem content to make your own shit up lol.

The scan say speed and I'm satisfied with that. No mention of teleportation.

Originally posted by carver9
Fast enough to casually lift his hand on a full powered blitzing Superman and telekinetically wrap him up...

https://i.ibb.co/8YhHVH5/uu1xfx6.jpg
upload image

Fast enough to punch blitz Superman and ko him before he could react (his punch would have to match his blitzing speed to pull this off)...

https://i.ibb.co/gz6sSH5/yVMHdkt.jpg
upload image

Able to lift his hand and push a blitzing Superman to the side. A FULL POWERED blitzing Superman...

https://i.ibb.co/HDMMSVL/7NsXLvQ.jpg
upload image







Originally posted by carver9
How fast is the punch and I want proof of whatever number you give. Thanks

Isnt that New 52 Superman though? He's significantly weaker.

World Forger 9/10

Originally posted by carver9
The scan say speed and I'm satisfied with that. No mention of teleportation.

No mention of flight or anything else either.

So you're saying travelling speed = punching speed? Lemme know.

Originally posted by carver9
World Forger specifically states that Galaxy was built to hold Superman. Superman was getting weaker by the second. Things were not normal there and Superman being unable to fly off is proof of that. Superman floating back to the same spot once he die is proof of that (happened to the other Supermen that left the planet). Density had nothing to do with any of this.
How's Superman able to fly off after he destroyed the planet then?