Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Hancock gets plugged into the matrix. He retains all his powers (and limits) in the matrix. He faces Neo. Can Neo beat Hancock or is this too much for him and will he face death?

Only feats from the original Trilogy.

Hancock has far greater brute lifting strength but he's not particularly fast by any feat we see onscreen and no striking force feat he has matches up to Neo's clashes with Smith in Revolutions. Neo also is obviously much more skilled as a fighter.

Neo with low difficulty tbh.

He seems pretty fast to me.

lol.

neo wins.

If Hancock has all his powers, then he is invulnerable/immortal unless his wife shows up. He also has demonstrated far more strength than Neo and his train feat outdoes any combined result of Neo and Smith fighting.

He didn't move an inch when several hundred tons of freight train slammed into him and he lowered his shoulder. The impact was so jarring that every single train car derailed for the entirety of the train. Neo's only better at fighting, and has slightly better reaction speed from the bullet dodge in the first movie, but then again he's fought tons of people who are not faster than bullets and he isn't a blur to them so it seems situational. Hancock slapped an RPG round away and can move faster than the eye can follow as well as fly to the moon and back so he's insanely fast when he wants to be.

Hancock painted the moon. Even if it took him multiple days to add enough coats of paint or whatever it was to be seen from Earth it would still put him pretty far into the speedster range.

He no sold a train slamming into him. I don't think Neo has any striking feats that can match the force of a speeding train composition.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Hancock painted the moon. Even if it took him multiple days to add enough coats of paint or whatever it was to be seen from Earth it would still put him pretty far into the speedster range.

I don't think it took him multiple days. When Ray looked up and was completely surprised, that made it seem like it was an extremely quick process. Like there was no way he wouldn't have noticed on his own over the course of several days.

Yeah, it would have been all over the news.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Hancock gets plugged into the matrix. He retains all his powers (and limits) in the matrix. He faces Neo. Can Neo beat Hancock or is this too much for him and will he face death?

Only feats from the original Trilogy.

Unless Neo's allowed to manipulate Hancock and remove his powers or weaken them sufficiently, he's not physically strong enough to hurt Hancock, so Neo's mastery of all martial arts won't matter.

So aside from that, Neo's head is going up Neo's ass.

edit: Been years since I've watched the Matric films, so I might be forgetting some strength feat that is strong enough to hurt Hancock?

P1: Hancock, while fast, is significantly slower than a bullet.
P2: Neo perceives bullets in slow motion, meaning he would perceive Hancock as slower than bullets.

P3: Neo, despite his strength, is not strong enough to harm Hancock.
P4: Neo would eventually tire, grow hungry, or age before Hancock does.

C: Therefore, Hancock would win the battle of attrition after a prolonged stalemate.

Originally posted by h1a8
P1: Hancock, while fast, is significantly slower than a bullet.
P2: Neo perceives bullets in slow motion, meaning he would perceive Hancock as slower than bullets.

P3: Neo, despite his strength, is not strong enough to harm Hancock.
P4: Neo would eventually tire, grow hungry, or age before Hancock does.

C: Therefore, Hancock would win the battle of attrition after a prolonged stalemate.
Neo manipulating the Matrix to see bullets in slow-motion doesn't really apply to combat since he's fought dozens of people who are far slower than bullets and they still land hits. In Matrix he fought Smith and the other Agents who aren't as fast as bullets in a fight even if they can dodge them. In Reloaded he fought the Werewolves who worked for the Merovingian, etc...

Also Hancock has shown he can move faster than the human eye can perceive and is fast enough to reach escape velocity so he is faster than a bullet when he wants to be.

Hancock is extremely faster than a bullet if he

1. Got to the moon period, unless you think that spaceships travel at just above the speed of sound.

2. Then proceeded to paint a continent sized area (if not more) in a short amount of time.

Originally posted by h1a8
P1: Hancock, while fast, is significantly slower than a bullet.
P2: Neo perceives bullets in slow motion, meaning he would perceive Hancock as slower than bullets.

P3: Neo, despite his strength, is not strong enough to harm Hancock.
P4: Neo would eventually tire, grow hungry, or age before Hancock does.

C: Therefore, Hancock would win the battle of attrition after a prolonged stalemate.

Do you even science, bro?

-Average speed of a bullet is around 1,450mph

-Escape velocity is 25,000mph

-Average distance to the moon is 238,900 miles (double that for the return)

Just for shots and giggles to think about it. Have any of you done any serious housepainting before?

Because if we got serious into thinking about it, he had to transport all that paint which would either multiply that speed feat if he made several trips, or one helluva strength feat (way beyond the whale) to somehow carry it in one load.

And then he is gonna have to use several coats, like a shitload of coats and wait on each one to dry etc...

If someone did the math( not enough info I'm sure) I would put money down that it would put him around Flash level speed.

It's a Looney Tunes level feat.

Don't forget he also carved the All-Heart logo into the moon before he painted it. You can see the difference in elevation in the picture.

But regardless, unless Neo can hit multiple times harder than a multi car train slamming into someone then there is really nothing he can do with his superior fighting skills like Robtard said.

It's a shame imo, but Hancock wins. Of course neo would land powerful hits which would feel like way more than butterfly kisses to Hancock, but the only strength feat I can remember is when Neo effortlessly used Agent Smith as a weapon to beat up other Agent Smiths. Still, according to movies vs logic, neo does indeed exhaust himself giving Hancock a barrage of butterfly kisses. Unless I'm forgetting a scene...

Originally posted by Robtard
Unless Neo's allowed to manipulate Hancock and remove his powers or weaken them sufficiently, he's not physically strong enough to hurt Hancock, so Neo's mastery of all martial arts won't matter.

So aside from that, Neo's head is going up Neo's ass.

edit: Been years since I've watched the Matric films, so I might be forgetting some strength feat that is strong enough to hurt Hancock? https://youtu.be/qTcxhshCElc?t=65

This feat is greater than any feat of raw power Hancock ever displayed in his film onscreen. By orders of magnitude.

The only reason this is even a discussion is because of the moon thing. But given we are given no context for how he accomplished this I'm not willing to give Hancock the benefit of the doubt when literally everything else he displayed is considerably less than this, particularly in regards to speed. Hancock barely has any feats indicating he's even superhuman in reaction-time and fighting speed at all, he just bumrushes normal humans at supersonic speeds but he can't statue them the way Superman or Flash can.

By feats performed onscreen Neo would dismantle Hancock with superior speed, skill, and striking strength and beat him down. Only with the higher interpretations of the offscreen moon feat does he scale higher in any capacity.

Originally posted by Robtard
Do you even science, bro?

-Average speed of a bullet is around 1,450mph

-Escape velocity is 25,000mph

-Average distance to the moon is 238,900 miles (double that for the return)

Escape velocity only refers to projectiles, not objects with propulsion.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Hancock is extremely faster than a bullet if he

1. Got to the moon period, unless you think that spaceships travel at just above the speed of sound.

2. Then proceeded to paint a continent sized area (if not more) in a short amount of time.

1. You don't understand the concept of acceleration.

Distance to moon = 1/2 acceleration * (time to moon)^2
=>
acceleration = 2 * (Distance to moon)/(time to moon)^2

Using this same acceleration, how long would it take Hancock to cover x feet in battle, starting from rest?

Distance = 1/2 acceleration * time^2
=>
x = 1/2 acceleration * time^2
=>
time = Sqrt
=>
time = Sqrt

Do you have a reasonable estimate for how long it took him to reach the moon? Let's assume it was 10 minutes. How long would it take him to cover 50 feet, starting from rest?

From above
time = Sqrt
= Sqrt
= 0.12 second

Now how long does it take a bullet to cover 50 feet?
time = Distance / speed
= 50 feet /
= 0.02 second

This means it would take Hancock 6 times longer to cover 50 feet than a bullet.

But guess what?
If Hancock accelerated halfway to the moon and decelerated the other half, he would achieve double the acceleration (the maximum possible).

So, how long would it take him to cover 50 feet?
Half the previous time: 0.06 seconds. The bullet would still be 3 times faster.

That's why you can't directly compare travel speed to combat speed.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Just for shots and giggles to think about it. Have any of you done any serious housepainting before?

Because if we got serious into thinking about it, he had to transport all that paint which would either multiply that speed feat if he made several trips, or one helluva strength feat (way beyond the whale) to somehow carry it in one load.

And then he is gonna have to use several coats, like a shitload of coats and wait on each one to dry etc...

If someone did the math( not enough info I'm sure) I would put money down that it would put him around Flash level speed.

It's unlikely that Hancock used actual paint to color the moon. He most likely accomplished it through some other unknown means.

Refer to my post above on acceleration to understand why travel speed doesn't directly compare to combat speed.

The biggest issue is that we don't know how long it took him to do this - it could have taken him 12 hours for all we know.
Originally posted by Robtard
It's a Looney Tunes level feat.

Yes, in the sense that we don't understand how he could have possibly colored the moon - perhaps through some unexplained power?

I'm not gonna lie, the link Neme put up made me question my stance a little bit. Been a long time since I've seen that.

Bullshit H1, common sense rules here.

If you shot a high end rifle at the moon, even if that bullet never slowed down it would take longer than 12 hours to reach the moon.

And whether it was paint or he laid red carpet he still had to carry a continent sized area of something to the moon.

Originally posted by h1a8
Escape velocity only refers to projectiles, not objects with propulsion.



To escape Earth's gravity, a rocket needs to reach a speed of approximately 11.2 kilometers per second (kilometers/second), which is known as escape velocity; this translates to roughly 25,000 miles per hour (mph). -Science


A rocket is an object with propulsion. Hancock is a being with propulsion. Hancock had to meet or exceed 25K mph for his moon feat. You don't even science.

Originally posted by NemeBro
https://youtu.be/qTcxhshCElc?t=65

This feat is greater than any feat of raw power Hancock ever displayed in his film onscreen. By orders of magnitude.

The only reason this is even a discussion is because of the moon thing. But given we are given no context for how he accomplished this I'm not willing to give Hancock the benefit of the doubt when literally everything else he displayed is considerably less than this, particularly in regards to speed. Hancock barely has any feats indicating he's even superhuman in reaction-time and fighting speed at all, he just bumrushes normal humans at supersonic speeds but he can't statue them the way Superman or Flash can.

By feats performed onscreen Neo would dismantle Hancock with superior speed, skill, and striking strength and beat him down. Only with the higher interpretations of the offscreen moon feat does he scale higher in any capacity.

Fair enough, had largely forgotten that 3rd film. Also puts Neo's durability way the f*ck up there.

And speed too. They're fighting as lightning is arcing down.

Neo is vulnerable though. In the first test where neo falls off the skyscraper, the majority of the impact is negated by the program, but still drops him far enough to hurt him. He seems to have control of virtual...matter (???) which is why he can stop bullets and make the walls breath, and fly through the air at ludicrous speed. Even with that advantage, Neo can dodge bullets, but he can't catch them. However Hancock doesn't need to manipulate reality to make himself bulletproof

but why does that matter?

the clash between neo and smith generated a city sized shockwave, and it didn't even seem to ko neo. he definitely felt it, but he didn't take any clear physical damage at all. hancock simply doesn't have the onscreen physical feats to suggest that he could even harm neo tbh. forget about actually beating him.

if hancock's power stays the same, as op stated, then the matrix is irrelevant. Neo has to take the full force of a punch as opposed to a digital punch that he's nearly immune to, along with everything else physics related within the matrix.

If neo is only dealing with matrix-matter and matrix-physics, then Hancock in fact does not retain his power and is gimped

I think the topic is too paradoxical tbh

it's not that deep.

we just assume that neo's abilities are functioning to their best (like when he's jacked into the matrix) and that hancock's abilities are functioning to their best as well (like when charlize isn't around).

iow we're still just using onscreen feats, and hancock isn't winning.

This actually turned out to be a pretty good match I think. I'm undecided now.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
it's not that deep.

we just assume that neo's abilities are functioning to their best (like when he's jacked into the matrix) and that hancock's abilities are functioning to their best as well (like when charlize isn't around).

iow we're still just using onscreen feats, and hancock isn't winning.

I would rest easily on neo winning if he was instead removed from the matrix, but given matrix powers. That would fill in all the blanks for me and answer all the "what if"s, since he would have actual invulnerability instead of simulated invulnerability based on hacking a program in which he can warp matter and be unaffected by inconvenient physics like being shot (and sometimes even hacking his opponent, right?).

Validate his power in real world and he possibly maybe likely wins fair and square. In the matrix ...just feels like Hancock's being gimped. Like an underwater _______ vs Aquaman thread to the billionth power. ....IMO

...too late to edit

One of those "what if"s is- what if Hancock's speed is enough to deliver a fatal blow before neo has time to do hacks: remove neo from the matrix and logic dictates that his invulnerability would be passive, just like hancock's.

Way I see it is that both get their full powers in the context of their settings.

Neo gets all of his pseudo-reality warping that makes him a superhero in the Matrix including bending physics to allow him to dish out and tank city busting forces, but Hancock still retains his flight and superhuman train derailing physicals.

Only murky thing is could Neo interact with Hancock the way he did Smith in the first movie where he jumped into and destroyed him? I'm inclined to say no, as Smith is a program and Hancock isn't.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
...too late to edit

One of those "what if"s is- what if Hancock's speed is enough to deliver a fatal blow before neo has time to do hacks: remove neo from the matrix and logic dictates that his invulnerability would be passive, just like hancock's. but again, neo soaked this-

https://i.postimg.cc/xTpRLmjD/1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HkJtzLjJ/2.jpg



hancock lacks the onscreen physical feats to suggest that he could even harm peak neo at all. forget delivering a "fatal" blow.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Way I see it is that both get their full powers in the context of their settings.

Neo gets all of his pseudo-reality warping that makes him a superhero in the Matrix including bending physics to allow him to dish out and tank city busting forces, but Hancock still retains his flight and superhuman train derailing physicals.

Only murky thing is could Neo interact with Hancock the way he did Smith in the first movie where he jumped into and destroyed him? I'm inclined to say no, as Smith is a program and Hancock isn't. the full extent of their physical abilities would crossover in a forum setting, but the esoteric stuff like neo's program deletion wouldn't.

Why couldn't he could take over Hancock's virtual body or straight up destroy him. Remember that the agents hack into living people's virtual bodies, maybe killing them...I don't think that was ever answered. that ability and the neo feat in question seem directly related.

I think it's one of those situations of "just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it could not happen". At the end of matrix 1 he jumped inside and destroyed a person's virtual body which was already occupied by Smith. I have no reason to believe that neo couldn't turn that ability against a human if he hypothetically turned psycho

Originally posted by Robtard
To escape Earth's gravity, a rocket needs to reach a speed of approximately 11.2 kilometers per second (kilometers/second), which is known as escape velocity; this translates to roughly 25,000 miles per hour (mph). -Science


A rocket is an object with propulsion. Hancock is a being with propulsion. Hancock had to meet or exceed 25K mph for his moon feat. You don't even science.

A rocket must reach escape velocity to turn off its thrusters and remain in orbit without relying on propulsion.

Hancock traveling to the moon isn't about staying in orbit or turning off propulsion.

Any object can reach the moon at any constant speed (even as slow as 1 mph). I doubt you don't already know this.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I'm not gonna lie, the link Neme put up made me question my stance a little bit. Been a long time since I've seen that.

Bullshit H1, common sense rules here.

If you shot a high end rifle at the moon, even if that bullet never slowed down it would take longer than 12 hours to reach the moon.

And whether it was paint or he laid red carpet he still had to carry a continent sized area of something to the moon.

Do you even understand the concept of acceleration?

A rifle bullet doesn't accelerate - its speed remains constant after being fired.

With even the smallest amount of acceleration, an object will eventually surpass the speed of a rifle bullet or any speed below the speed of light.

The basic kinematic formula for uniform acceleration is
Distance = 1/2 acceleration * time^2

You're assuming Hancock used something from Earth to color the moon, but that's not a necessary conclusion.

Originally posted by h1a8
A rocket must reach escape velocity to turn off its thrusters and remain in orbit without relying on propulsion.

Hancock traveling to the moon isn't about staying in orbit or turning off propulsion.

Any object can reach the moon at any constant speed (even as slow as 1 mph). I doubt you don't already know this.

LoL, dude. Keep dancing. Hancock had to reach or exceed EV to get out out Earth's gravitational pull. That means he's faster than a bullet, at least when flying. You were wrong in your 'bullet speed > Hancock' claim.

Now you could argue that he could only reach those speeds in outer orbit due to the thinner atmosphere, but we don't know for sure. What we do know, he can fly fast enough to avoid the human eye as we saw in the bank scene and he can reach EV using the moon feat.

Anyhow. Nemebro largely ended the thread with posting Neo's 3rd film feats. But your downplaying of Hancock's feats is ridiculous. If we include Hancock's moon painting in on night feat, gets even weirder as that's looney tunes level shit.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, dude. Keep dancing. Hancock had to reach or exceed EV to get out out Earth's gravitational pull. That means he's faster than a bullet, at least when flying. You were wrong in your 'bullet speed > Hancock' claim.

Now you could argue that he could only reach those speeds in outer orbit due to the thinner atmosphere, but we don't know for sure. What we do know, he can fly fast enough to avoid the human eye as we saw in the bank scene and he can reach EV using the moon feat.

Anyhow. Nemebro largely ended the thread with posting Neo's 3rd film feats. But your downplaying of Hancock's feats is ridiculous. If we include Hancock's moon painting in on night feat, gets even weirder as that's looney tunes level shit.

Not only is your lack of basic physics understanding astounding, but you're also trolling by ignoring what I've already explained.

You don't need to escape Earth's gravity to reach the Moon, just as you don't need to escape it to jump onto a box. Gravity gets weaker the farther you are from Earth, making it progressively easier as you travel.

If you're traveling at a constant speed of 1 mph, you'd reach the Moon in 238,900 hours. It's not necessary to reach escape velocity or fully overcome Earth's gravitational attraction.

Your confusion stems from misunderstanding the term itself. Escape velocity refers to the speed an object must reach to avoid ever returning to Earth (i.e., to stay in orbit indefinitely). Rockets turn off their thrusters shortly after reaching escape velocity.

Originally posted by h1a8
A rifle bullet doesn't accelerate - its speed remains constant after being fired.

...forever?

Ah okay, I wasn't aware you were talking deep space physics.

I think the premise of this thread is silly because matrix physics is hackable. Not only that, but Neo decided that being shot multiple times in the abdomen was only a superficial wound, and so it was. What else can he just decide to shrug off? But again: if Hancock goes for the head, neo might be dead. He has to first think about hacking in order to hack.

The matrix helps nobody in this topic IMHO lol

I don't care about any of thar.

Moon is 200+ thousand miles away

You said the speed of a bullet. Most pistol rounds operate between 6-900 mph rifles 1500-2k.

Most people shoot bullets on earth, hence the speeds robtard gave you. They don't shoot them in space therefore all of your nonsense is unnecessary. You said a bullet is faster, it isn't. And neither is Neo.

Where else would he have gotten paint or any substance for that matter near the moon? Prove it isn't Earth paint. And guess what, if he went all the way to another planet to get it, it just makes him that much faster. Either way, you lose this argument.

On top of that, covering that much area with paint in 12 hours after excavating it would be multiple times faster than simpley getting to the moon. He would be way faster than the flash.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not only is your lack of basic physics understanding astounding, but you're also trolling by ignoring what I've already explained.

You don't need to escape Earth's gravity to reach the Moon, just as you don't need to escape it to jump onto a box. Gravity gets weaker the farther you are from Earth, making it progressively easier as you travel.

If you're traveling at a constant speed of 1 mph, you'd reach the Moon in 238,900 hours. It's not necessary to reach escape velocity or fully overcome Earth's gravitational attraction.

Your confusion stems from misunderstanding the term itself. Escape velocity refers to the speed an object must reach to avoid ever returning to Earth (i.e., to stay in orbit indefinitely). Rockets turn off their thrusters shortly after reaching escape velocity.

https://i.imgur.com/63wy9g3.gif

Anyhow.


"Rockets turn off their thrusters after reaching escape velocity" -h1a8

Bingo, meaning they had to reach it first, just like Hancock. Now you finally get it and Hancock is faster than a bullet

We know Hancock is fast enough to fly to the moon, carve out the All-Heart logo, color it with 2 different shades of red, get back to Earth, then call Ray and tell him about it before he looked up even once while he was out with his family on the boardwalk. Even if he started the process the moment the moon went out of view, it's still beyond insanely fast.

Originally posted by Robtard
https://i.imgur.com/63wy9g3.gif

Anyhow.


"Rockets turn off their thrusters after reaching escape velocity" -h1a8

Bingo, meaning they had to reach it first, just like Hancock. Now you finally get it and Hancock is faster than a bullet


It is not required for Hancock to reach escape velocity to get to the moon (straight line travel). He can get there traveling at a measly 1mph. However, it is required for him to reach escape velocity if he just wants to orbit the EARTH indefinitely WITHOUT USING ANY PROPULSION.



Hancock, accelerating at 300 ft/s^2, will reach the moon in under an hour.

A magical bullet traveling at a constant speed of 3,000 ft/s would take just under 5 days to reach the moon.

Who's faster? Hancock right?

Now, Hancock would take 0.58 seconds to travel the first 50 feet under that same acceleration, while the bullet would take only 0.02 seconds to cover the same distance.

Who's faster now? The bullet right?

The bullet starts off faster, but Hancock matches and exceeds its speed after 10 seconds. Yes, Hancock will reach escape velocity after just over 2 minutes of travel, though this isn't required to reach the moon. This is the principle of_acceleration!

Originally posted by KingD19
We know Hancock is fast enough to fly to the moon, carve out the All-Heart logo, color it with 2 different shades of red, get back to Earth, then call Ray and tell him about it before he looked up even once while he was out with his family on the boardwalk. Even if he started the process the moment the moon went out of view, it's still beyond insanely fast.

We have no idea about the time frame for anything. I rarely even glance at the moon when I'm outside.

He could have started his journey to the moon early in the morning and taken an hour to get there.

He might have spent over 8 hours on the moon doing who knows what.

Bottom line: We have no clue how he accomplished the feat, making it entirely unquantifiable as a speed feat. He's a magical, fictional god, and the possibilities for how he achieved it are limitless and entirely made up.

Originally posted by h1a8

Bottom line: We have no clue how he accomplished the feat, making it entirely unquantifiable as a speed feat.

Nah that's a complete fallacious copout


It's obvious he didn't teleport or fold space to travel to the moon, but you want to negate the feat because it didn't actually show him traveling there. Bad faith shenanigans

What we've learned is Hancock's abilities may be "limitless" and that he maybe colored the Moon shades of red using something not from Earth.

So maybe Hancock zipped over to Mars, picked up trillions of tons of martian soil with his mind powers, flew them to the Moon and carved and painted a giant heart in less than a day. Would explain the looney tunes level feat.

So ridiculous. It halfway pisses me off because he knows what he originally said and then wants to try and bring these ludicrous equations into it as if anyone needs to do that to know that ships and objects that travel to space are faster than a ****ing bullet.

And then the whole "space paint" which actually makes it a better feat makes me want to drink.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So ridiculous. It halfway pisses me off because he knows what he originally said and then wants to try and bring these ludicrous equations into it as if anyone needs to do that to know that ships and objects that travel to space are faster than a ****ing bullet.

And then the whole "space paint" which actually makes it a better feat makes me want to drink.

Hancock was shown traveling toward a full moon one month before Ray and Mary looked up and saw a full moon with a heart on it. This aligns with the lunar cycle, as consecutive full moons are approximately one month apart.

It is plausible that Hancock began his project 11 days after the full moon, at the start of the waning crescent phase, and finished by the beginning of the waxing crescent phase - about 7 days in total. During this period, the moon transitions from barely visible in the night sky to not visible at all, and back to being barely visible again.

Alternatively, it's possible that Hancock started at the third quarter moon and completed his work by the first quarter moon, a span of roughly 15 days. Personally, I've sometimes gone more than a month without looking up at the moon, so the timing discrepancy seems reasonable.

Furthermore, Hancock likely didn't return to Earth during this time. Ray mentioned that he tried calling Hancock, and Hancock responded by saying he was "out of range," implying he was still on the moon. Considering that the method Hancock used to alter the moon is unknown - and that he is a fictional being with superpowers - it's reasonable to assume he might have employed an unmentioned ability to complete the task.

I thought we don't assume things without proof, or give special attributes without proof?

This hitherto unmentioned superpower that has no proof sounds fishy

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought we don't assume things without proof, or give special attributes without proof?

This hitherto unmentioned superpower that has no proof sounds fishy

We can assume anything we want, but assumptions, on their own, don't constitute proof. My assumption of Hancock using an unmentioned ability holds no more weight as evidence than any other speculative claim. This is why the feat cannot be used to definitively prove anything regarding speed.
That was my point.

Holds no more weight?

We at least know that he has superspeed. That has more weight than this mysterious X Power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Holds no more weight?

We at least know that he has superspeed. That has more weight than this mysterious X Power.

My original conclusion is that Hancock wins the battle of attrition.

This is because Neo likely isn't strong enough to inflict significant damage on Hancock, and Hancock isn't fast enough to land a hit on Neo. However, Hancock's immortality gives him a decisive edge. Unlike Neo, Hancock won't tire, starve, or age. Neo, being mortal, will eventually succumb to exhaustion, hunger, or the passage of time.

We all agreed that Hancock wins, so we shifted the debate to whether Hancock is faster than Neo.

Yes, Hancock has superspeed and performed the moon feat at superspeed - there's no debating that.

The real discussion is whether this or him being able to travel to the moon in a certain amount of time proves that Hancock is significantly faster than a rifle bullet within the first 50-100 feet of travel.

While Hancock can theoretically exceed any speed given enough time or distance, it's important to note that it's entirely possible to accelerate to the moon in five minutes yet still fail to cover the first 50 feet faster than a rifle bullet under the same acceleration conditions.

From the scenes we've seen, Hancock never surpasses the speed of a bullet within the first 100 feet of travel. However, the speed of a rifle bullet is trivial to Neo in the larger picture. He outflew an explosion powerful enough to level a skyscraper while weaving through a building with sharp turns. He also achieved such incredible speeds that his wake sent countless vehicles flying through the air like debris. Calculating the exact speed required for these feats is difficult, but it's clear that even the fastest jets/rockets in the world couldn't come close to matching it.

I recall several members discrediting Superman's tectonic plate feat, suggesting he likely used a machine or some external assistance. Now, those same members are making assumptions about how Hancock colored the moon and how long it took him, despite the method and timeframe being completely unknown. Feels like a double standard to me.

You need a new thread in which they race each other, then. I didn't notice the topic change tbh

We all agreed Hancock wins? Another thing you're wrong on.Originally posted by h1a8
My original conclusion is that Hancock wins the battle of attrition.

This is because Neo likely isn't strong enough to inflict significant damage on Hancock, and Hancock isn't fast enough to land a hit on Neo. However, Hancock's immortality gives him a decisive edge. Unlike Neo, Hancock won't tire, starve, or age. Neo, being mortal, will eventually succumb to exhaustion, hunger, or the passage of time.

We all agreed that Hancock wins, so we shifted the debate to whether Hancock is faster than Neo.

Yes, Hancock has superspeed and performed the moon feat at superspeed - there's no debating that.

The real discussion is whether this or him being able to travel to the moon in a certain amount of time proves that Hancock is significantly faster than a rifle bullet within the first 50-100 feet of travel.

While Hancock can theoretically exceed any speed given enough time or distance, it's important to note that it's entirely possible to accelerate to the moon in five minutes yet still fail to cover the first 50 feet faster than a rifle bullet under the same acceleration conditions.

From the scenes we've seen, Hancock never surpasses the speed of a bullet within the first 100 feet of travel. However, the speed of a rifle bullet is trivial to Neo in the larger picture. He outflew an explosion powerful enough to level a skyscraper while weaving through a building with sharp turns. He also achieved such incredible speeds that his wake sent countless vehicles flying through the air like debris. Calculating the exact speed required for these feats is difficult, but it's clear that even the fastest jets/rockets in the world couldn't come close to matching it.

I recall several members discrediting Superman's tectonic plate feat, suggesting he likely used a machine or some external assistance. Now, those same members are making assumptions about how Hancock colored the moon and how long it took him, despite the method and timeframe being completely unknown. Feels like a double standard to me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We all agreed Hancock wins? Another thing you're wrong on.

I didn't see anyone argue that Neo wins. Everyone who posted (myself included) stated that Hancock wins. We simply shifted the focus of the discussion.

Look closer, then.

Several people claim Neo wins and I went from Hancock Wins to I don't know.

I implied that neo could win if his hacks can negate Hancock's power, but lean more towards Hancock winning because neo's invulnerability is not passive.

Anyone who would aggressively assert a winner in this thread would definitely be a weapons grade clown, so I hope nobody is trying that