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Movie Versions

Fight1: Thanos gets his endgame gear (armor, dual sword, etc)

If that's a stomp for Thanos then
Fight2: Thanos is weaponless.

No speedup shenanigans from Apoc and both fight at their natural normal speeds.

Fight starts with both 20 feet apart.

Hard to.say, Im thinking Apoc might actually win this, but he's never faced someone this physically powerful... His transmutation powers are very powerful though.

Apoc has a shot here with his versatile powers. Thanos without the gems is just a brick. It took the Phoenix to put Apoc down.

Yewah Apoc should win.

En Sabah slaughters Thanos without his trinkets

Without the IG, Thanos is heavily outmatched. Apocalypse's forcefield has tanked far more damage than Thanos can output with physical force alone. He's got matter manipulation on an insane level. He moved pyramids with TK meaning he can manipulate hundreds of thousands of tons. He could also just mind f*ck him since he was strong enough to take over Xavier. And on the chance Thanos actually hurts him, he'll just heal from it. Apoc has to actively not fight to lose.

Can Thanos kill him with his sword right at the start of the fight - behead him or cut him in half, something like that?

Doubt it, Apoc was able to see and grab Quicksilver, the one that was way faster than the MCU version. Thanos isn't even 1% of that in terms of speed.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Doubt it, Apoc was able to see and grab Quicksilver, the one that was way faster than the MCU version. Thanos isn't even 1% of that in terms of speed.

He'd also have to make it through his forcefield to actually hit him. Quicksilver only did it because he's one of the fastest people to ever live.

With a thought Apoc could sink Thanos into the ground to his neck and then mind-rape him. Thanos' mind couldn't resist Mantis, while Apoc's telepathy surpasses Xavier's.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Doubt it, Apoc was able to see and grab Quicksilver, the one that was way faster than the MCU version. Thanos isn't even 1% of that in terms of speed. From the OP
"No speedup shenanigans from Apoc and both fight at their natural normal speeds."

What do you mean speedup shenanigans? His superhuman senses and reflexes allow him to stop even guys like Quicksilver dead in their tracks... That are his capabilities.

lol yeah wth is a speed up shenanigan here.

Trust h1a8 to make nonsensical rules.

Apoc has his super senses and reaction time removed for this fight. He still wins due to his vast array of powers, but it's telling he has to be gimped.

^ Okay so assume reflexes are equal? Not sure how that makes any difference here given they start off 20 feet apart.

It's just about whether Thanos's durability would hold up or not against Apoc's attacks (seems unlikely).

Apoc has TK, if he lifts Thanos off the ground like S. Witch did, he's screwed. Thanos could throw his sword, but Apoc's shields or TK can stop that.

The only way Thanos wins this is if his durability is strong enough to survive long run and Apoc gets tired at some point.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
What do you mean speedup shenanigans? His superhuman senses and reflexes allow him to stop even guys like Quicksilver dead in their tracks... That are his capabilities.
He somehow accelerated them to match Quicksilver's speed. Quicksilver initially statued him. Apocalypse fights at normal speed here. If that's unclear, Apocalypse and Thanos are fighting with equal speed and perception.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
lol yeah wth is a speed up shenanigan here.

Trust h1a8 to make nonsensical rules.
Nonsensical?

Apoc sped up to match Quicksilver - bad writing. He never starts a fight with that level of speed or perception. If Apoc begins with Quicksilver-level speed and perception, the fight becomes a spite thread. Why are you annoyed that he needs to be limited to keep this an actual fight?

Originally posted by h1a8
Nonsensical?

Apoc sped up to match Quicksilver - bad writing. He never starts a fight with that level of speed or perception. If Apoc begins with Quicksilver-level speed and perception, the fight becomes a spite thread. Why are you annoyed that he needs to be limited to keep this an actual fight?


He never sped up. He could perceive him and used his other abilities to tag him. He never himself moved at the same speed as Quicksilver. Nor was there any indication that he sped himself up.

Was the same with Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He never sped up. He could perceive him and used his other abilities to tag him. He never himself moved at the same speed as Quicksilver. Nor was there any indication that he sped himself up.

Was the same with Dark Phoenix.

He was completely statued at the start. Quicksilver hit him a billion times before his perception speed adapted to Quicksilver's level. Then, in every other scene in the movie, he operated with normal human-level perception (before and after that scene).

This is not comic book Thanos (a low-tier cosmic entity) vs comic book Apoc (an immortal Uber shapeshifter). MCU Thanos is AT BEST a Flying Brick which isn't going to do jack shit against Fox Apocalypse, who is a teleporting matter-transmutating telekinetic that can either merge Thanos with the dirt he's standing on or literally turn Thanos into a dirt statue or manipulate the dirt to flood all of Thanos 's orifices.

Originally posted by Lestov16
This is not comic book Thanos (a low-tier cosmic entity) vs comic book Apoc (an immortal Uber shapeshifter). MCU Thanos is AT BEST a Flying Brick which isn't going to do jack shit against Fox Apocalypse, who is a teleporting matter-transmutating telekinetic that can either merge Thanos with the dirt he's standing on or literally turn Thanos into a dirt statue or manipulate the dirt to flood all of Thanos 's orifices.

Apoc can't transmute Thanos - assuming he can is committing a no limits fallacy. Trapping him in dirt doesn't accomplish anything; he can break out easily, and that's assuming he just sits there and lets it happen.

Apoc would struggle just to even hurt Thanos.
Thanos could potentially decapitate Apoc or slice him clean in half.

Originally posted by h1a8
Apoc can't transmute Thanos - assuming he can is committing a no limits fallacy. Trapping him in dirt doesn't accomplish anything; he can break out easily, and that's assuming he just sits there and lets it happen.

Apoc would struggle just to even hurt Thanos.
Thanos could potentially decapitate Apoc or slice him clean in half.

Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene.

Thanos inherently has resistance to matter transmutation. The standard rule is that the more durable a being or object is, the more resistant it is to matter manipulation.

You need to prove that Apoc can transmute someone as durable as Thanos.

Apoc has never done that - all he did was trap others inside material, as shown at the end of the movie. Even if he does have that ability, it still wouldn't work on Thanos for the reasons stated above.

Show me the onscreen feat or quote that says that Thanos is resistant to matter manipulation. Oh you don't have that and are using some bullshit argument about durability equaling transmutation resistance. Not only is that nonsense, but even if you want to play that game, Apoc transmuted an entire city, which definitely has more combined mass and thus durability than Thanos.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Show me the onscreen feat or quote that says that Thanos is resistant to matter manipulation. Oh you don't have that and are using some bullshit argument about durability equaling transmutation resistance. Not only is that nonsense, but even if you want to play that game, Apoc transmuted an entire city, which definitely has more combined mass and thus durability than Thanos.

It's the status quo: the more durable something is, the harder it is to manipulate its structure. That's not only a scientific fact but also consistently shown throughout comics - examples exist where highly durable objects and beings resist matter manipulation to some degree.

Now, consider the alternative.
If that weren't the case, in the comics, Surfer would just beat anyone - Thanos, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Runner - by simply turning them into a table. But you never see anyone seriously arguing that.

Another h1 asspull rule comes to light.

Originally posted by KingD19
Another h1 asspull rule comes to light.


Originally posted by h1a8
It's the status quo: the more durable something is, the harder it is to manipulate its structure. That's not only a scientific fact but also consistently shown throughout comics - examples exist where highly durable objects and beings resist matter manipulation to some degree.

Now, consider the alternative.
If that weren't the case, in the comics, Surfer would just beat anyone - Thanos, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Runner - by simply turning them into a table. But you never see anyone seriously arguing that.
1. This isn't comics. This is the second time you've been told that.
2. Practically every character you mentioned is either a matter manipulator or cosmic entity.
3. As I stated, even if that rule were true, Apoc has been shown manipulating structures way more durable than Thanos aka an entire Egyptian city, so even by your rules, Thanos is still going to have trouble here
4. Again, you act like Apoc encases people inside of their surroundings rather than literally convert their matter into the elements of their surroundings. Apoc doesn't just trap people in walls. He literally transforms their matter into the wall itself. Thanos has no onscreen defense against this, and you know it

Originally posted by Lestov16



1. This isn't comics. This is the second time you've been told that.
2. Practically every character you mentioned is either a matter manipulator or cosmic entity.
3. As I stated, even if that rule were true, Apoc has been shown manipulating structures way more durable than Thanos aka an entire Egyptian city, so even by your rules, Thanos is still going to have trouble here
4. Again, you act like Apoc encases people inside of their surroundings rather than literally convert their matter into the elements of their surroundings. Apoc doesn't just trap people in walls. He literally transforms their matter into the wall itself. Thanos has no onscreen defense against this, and you know it

1. If the rule of logic holds true - that a matter manipulator can manipulate anything and anyone without specific resistance feats - then it applies across all mediums. Comics are just one example. Arguing that this isn't comics is irrelevant; we're discussing logic and reasoning, which are universal.


2. It doesn't matter because you don't get to make less logical than mine exceptions to your rules about resistance to matter manipulation. More durable beings are inherently more resistant than less durable ones unless stated or shown otherwise. That's the standard. Assuming that a being who can manipulate paper can also manipulate a nearly indestructible material is absurd.


3. Thanos is vastly more durable than the pyramids, many times over. The pyramids are just sand and stone - it's not even close. A fighter jet could demolish a pyramid with ease, but it wouldn't leave a scratch on Thanos.


4. The movie contradicts your argument at the end. Re-watch the scene where Apocalypse dies. Regardless, Apocalypse wouldn't be able to manipulate Thanos in the first place.

Who cares about matter manipulation anyways? Apoc can just mind control him and then its over.

Originally posted by tkitna
Who cares about matter manipulation anyways? Apoc can just mind control him and then its over.

Feats of him mind controlling someone?

Originally posted by Robtard
With a thought Apoc could sink Thanos into the ground to his neck and then mind-rape him. Thanos' mind couldn't resist Mantis, while Apoc's telepathy surpasses Xavier's. Well Mantis has better feats than both Xavier and Apoc, so proves nothing.

And still she couldn't keep it for long and by her words " He's too strong". I don't see Apoc overcoming Thanos' mind imo.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene. Ah a no limit fallacy.
Can he also transmute Sutur, as you said, Sutur hasn't shown to resist transmutation.
Apoc hasn't transmuted anything close to Thanos level. Thanos is very very durable.

Originally posted by h1a8
Feats of him mind controlling someone?

He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?

Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here? And Thanos got out of Mantis control which is better. Same Mantis who was powerful enough to put celestial Ego to sleep.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
And Thanos got out of Mantis control which is better. Same Mantis who was powerful enough to put celestial Ego to sleep.

Ego willingly wanted to sleep though so is that really a good feat? *shrug*
She also has to have physical touch for her powers to work and they target the persons emotional state. Thats why she struggled with Thanos. He was determined to obtain the gems for his purpose with nothing else.

Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?

That doesn't prove he can control someone's mind; it only proves he has resistance or defense against mind control.

Originally posted by tkitna
Ego willingly wanted to sleep though so is that really a good feat? *shrug*
She also has to have physical touch for her powers to work and they target the persons emotional state. Thats why she struggled with Thanos. He was determined to obtain the gems for his purpose with nothing else.

Ego didn't consent to being put to sleep.
The need for her to physically touch her target doesn't logically prove that her influence is weaker than someone who can affect their target from a distance.

Originally posted by h1a8
He was completely statued at the start. Quicksilver hit him a billion times before his perception speed adapted to Quicksilver's level. Then, in every other scene in the movie, he operated with normal human-level perception (before and after that scene).


It's here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceiSpZO-nRc

His eyes shift, but he never moves at QS speed. He uses TK or Matter manipulation to trip QS up. Doesn't even move a hand.

Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?

Doesnt mean he can control people telepathically. It does mean he is powerful enough mentally to defeat a strong telepath in a fight between minds. Could well be a passive power, not an offensive capability. He does have some form of mentally influencing people when he turns them into horsemen with his tech.

Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?

Doesnt mean he can control people telepathically. It does mean he is powerful enough mentally to defeat a strong telepath in a fight between minds. Could well be a passive power, not an offensive capability. He does have some form of mentally influencing people when he turns them into horsemen with his tech.

Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?

Doesnt mean he can control people telepathically. It does mean he is powerful enough mentally to defeat a strong telepath in a fight between minds. Could well be a passive power, not an offensive capability. He does have some form of mentally influencing people when he turns them into horsemen.

I thought Ego wanted to sleep but needed assistance to do so as he was a sentinent being. I could be wrong admittingly and would need to rewatch.

As for Mantis, my point was Xavier or some telepath of that ilk could shut her down before she could mount an attack making her useless, but that has no bearing in this fight at all so it means nothing.

Also to be honest, I haven't watched the Apoc film in a long time either, but beating Xavier in a psychic battle is impressive. I don't know if he actually controlled peoples minds in the film without rewatching, but I assume he can. Yes, thats just an assumption without watching again to know.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceiSpZO-nRc

His eyes shift, but he never moves at QS speed. He uses TK or Matter manipulation to trip QS up. Doesn't even move a hand.

This is questionable. He does seem to adapt to Quicksilvers speed perception wise here. He couldn't even see him previously and then saw him as running in slow motion and slow enough that he easily could grab him with his matter manipulation. The question remains though if he could have physically moved that fast himself. His eyes did though, so who knows.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceiSpZO-nRc

His eyes shift, but he never moves at QS speed. He uses TK or Matter manipulation to trip QS up. Doesn't even move a hand.


This is what I stated.

Originally posted by h1a8
He was completely statued at the start. Quicksilver hit him a billion times before his perception speed adapted to Quicksilver's level. Then, in every other scene in the movie, he operated with normal human-level perception (before and after that scene).

Originally posted by tkitna
Ego willingly wanted to sleep though so is that really a good feat? *shrug*
She also has to have physical touch for her powers to work and they target the persons emotional state. Thats why she struggled with Thanos. He was determined to obtain the gems for his purpose with nothing else. Ego couldn't even put himself to sleep lol.
Affecting Ego is way above anything Xavier or Apoc has shown to do.

So the point went over your head.
I'm comparing the EFFECT of their powers, and Mantis' powers function through physical touch.

The point being If Thanos can resist Mantis who has the better feat, Then Apoc shouldn't be a problem even though said Apoc has never even mind controlled anyone in his career.

Apoc is so overhyped.
I say Thanos cuts him in half IMO.

Thanos had Infinity Gems. They are miles above Ego's power.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Thanos had Infinity Gems. They are miles above Ego's power. He wasn't even using it, Whenever he used the stones, they glow. The stones weren't glowing.

The gloves were almost out of his hand, IM and Spidey had almost pulled it out.
Infact Mantis literally said "he's very strong"(referring to his mind)
But let's assume he would have used the stones, which one? The mind stone would have prolly countered Mantis but he hadn't gotten it yet.

Correction on my part: Thanos didn't straight up overpower Mantis, she was interrupted by Peter hitting Thanos and although she tried gaining back control, Thanos was already recovering.

That wouldn't change the outcome of the fight though.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
The mind stone would have prolly countered Mantis but he hadn't gotten it yet.

Yeah he didn't have the mind stone.

I don't know, but Apoc has way more versatile powers that should be able to handle any walking brick in my opinion. I mean it took the Phoenix to take him down. To each their own I suppose.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Correction on my part: Thanos didn't straight up overpower Mantis, she was interrupted by Peter hitting Thanos and although she tried gaining back control, Thanos was already recovering.

That wouldn't change the outcome of the fight though.

You are right here. Mantis had Thanos, but never total control. They couldn't even wrestle the glove from him while it was happening.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Doesnt mean he can control people telepathically. It does mean he is powerful enough mentally to defeat a strong telepath in a fight between minds. Could well be a passive power, not an offensive capability. He does have some form of mentally influencing people when he turns them into horsemen with his tech.


Kind of a stretch tbh.

Originally posted by tkitna
This is questionable. He does seem to adapt to Quicksilvers speed perception wise here. He couldn't even see him previously and then saw him as running in slow motion and slow enough that he easily could grab him with his matter manipulation. The question remains though if he could have physically moved that fast himself. His eyes did though, so who knows.


I guess. It's still speculation. I mean how is it different to Superman fighting Wonder Woman and Aquaman at their speed, but still perceiving Flash running around him?


Originally posted by h1a8
This is what I stated.

Hit him a billions times? LMAO

I actually agree with the reasoning that just because a character can mentally fight off a telepathic attack doesn't mean they are capable of telepathic assaults themselves. There are plenty of examples of that.

Vegeta being able to override Babidi's mental control in DBZ for example.

It's been a while since I watched X-Men: Apocalypse, but wasn't part of the plot that Apocalypse wanted Xavier exactly because he couldn't do what Xavier does telepathically and wanted to transfer his consciousness into Xavier's body to get said powers?

eVzAU8F5dGI

Hell, in this clip, he outright states it. He can defend his mind and others from telepathy, but he doesn't have the ability to enter and control the minds of others himself.

I didn't rewatch the movie, but I watched this clip and there's a few tidbits that point in the direction that he does have some type of psychic powers. I'm asking you guys to help with some context (I really dont want to watch the movie again), but at the 3:40 mark, whats going on there?

Rr_KSc9utMM

Also, after watching that clip I posted, there is no way Thanos is beating him. Apoc is just on an entirely different level than him.

Originally posted by tkitna
I didn't rewatch the movie, but I watched this clip and there's a few tidbits that point in the direction that he does have some type of psychic powers. I'm asking you guys to help with some context (I really dont want to watch the movie again), but at the 3:40 mark, whats going on there?

Rr_KSc9utMM

Likely the same thing going on here:

l83g7TFxc90

Fox Apocalypse is established as being a technopath that can manipulate machines, so he probably mentally hacked Cerebro. Again, he himself literally states in that clip I posted that he has defensive telepathic abilities but not offensive ones.

Not that it matters IMO. Unless he fights like an absolute muppet, Thanos shouldn't even be able to touch him. His insane TK alone should be enough to handle someone who is literally just a brick without the Infinity Stones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RTvideos/comments/fh9qe4/en_sabah_nur_make_pyramid/

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Fox Apocalypse is established as being a technopath that can manipulate machines, so he probably mentally hacked Cerebro.

Ah ok. Yeah that makes sense. I was curious about the guy who's eyes turned black. Help from Cerebro.



He does say that. I knew he had some psychic powers but just didn't know to what extent. I made more out of that clip you posted than there was. I was overthinking and thought he wanted Xavier to do it just as a power play.



Yeah, I can't see Thanos beating him in any way.

Thanks for the clarification Vault.

Well, I'm curious - do you guys think Ebony Maw wouldn't lose to Thanos with his Endgame gear?

Ebony Maw would loses to Thanos because they exist within the same narrative and narratively Thanos is superior.

Thanos gets no such luxury in a cross-verse battle like this.

He gets match-up diffed and to top it off is less conventionally powerful.

Besides Ebony Maw doesn't have anywhere near the versatility that Apocalypse does. Or the raw power.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's been a while since I watched X-Men: Apocalypse, but wasn't part of the plot that Apocalypse wanted Xavier exactly because he couldn't do what Xavier does telepathically and wanted to transfer his consciousness into Xavier's body to get said powers?

eVzAU8F5dGI

Hell, in this clip, he outright states it. He can defend his mind and others from telepathy, but he doesn't have the ability to enter and control the minds of others himself.


Ah yes you're correct.

Like tkitna said, it's not the easiest movie to rewatch, but still McAvoy and Fassbender save it IMO. Quicksilver helps as well.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ebony Maw would loses to Thanos because they exist within the same narrative and narratively Thanos is superior.

Thanos gets no such luxury in a cross-verse battle like this.

He gets match-up diffed and to top it off is less conventionally powerful. I was referring to a forum fight, where we use feats. It's not enough to say who wins but HOW.

Make a thread for it.

Also, remember Ebony Maw was a minion for him and there has to be a reason why.

Ebony Maw's telekinesis is limited to inanimate objects aside from himself. And nothing he did was on a level where it would hurt or stop Thanos. Even Thor was already massively weakened by Thanos before Ebony Maw shackled him.

That's like comparing Jessica Jones and Juggernaut in super strength. Yeah they both have it, but there's a clear level difference, and it's not close. At all.

Originally posted by KingD19
Ebony Maw's telekinesis is limited to inanimate objects aside from himself. And nothing he did was on a level where it would hurt or stop Thanos. Even Thor was already massively weakened by Thanos before Ebony Maw shackled him.

That's like comparing Jessica Jones and Juggernaut in super strength. Yeah they both have it, but there's a clear level difference, and it's not close. At all.

I'm not sure if Ebony Maw can't control animate matter. I mean, he can control himself, and at the very least, he can lift someone through their armor or clothing, like he did with Iron Man.

I'd say neither of them can hurt Thanos with their telekinesis unless they use a very durable and sharp object to do so, like Thanos' sword, for example. That said, Apocalypse may have more raw power but Maw has more precision and strategy.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not sure if Ebony Maw can't control animate matter. I mean, he can control himself, and at the very least, he can lift someone through their armor or clothing, like he did with Iron Man.

I'd say neither of them can hurt Thanos with their telekinesis unless they use a very durable and sharp object to do so, like Thanos' sword, for example. That said, Apocalypse may have more raw power but Maw has more precision and strategy.

Maw was never shown manipulating organic/living material. Only inanimate. Aside from himself as I mentioned, which considering he tossed Cull Obsidian aside and tossed Tony, he probably has metal or inorganic materials in his clothing to move himself. Or the only organic matter he can affect is himself.

And Apocalypse absolutely has more precision.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2016/B2MHbD.gif

Building a pyramid brick by brick in seconds surpasses anything Maw did.

When did Maw directly toss Tony? Not saying it didn't happen, but the only instance I recall was when Maw launched pieces of concrete and debris with Iron Man on top of it, while Tony was talking to Bruce about his suit. At the 12 second mark here:

m2OJ_XCISZs

Maw's powers were very inconsistent though. For example, in Endgame, he couldn't even directly lift the Infinity Gauntlet, and had to use rocks to lift it.

Oh yeah, he doesn't actually move Tony. The only person he moves is Cull Obsidian when he gets launched at him, but as he's covered in armor and has a weapon it's something he had on that he moved and Obsidian just went with it.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. If the rule of logic holds true - that a matter manipulator can manipulate anything and anyone without specific resistance feats - then it applies across all mediums. Comics are just one example. Arguing that this isn't comics is irrelevant; we're discussing logic and reasoning, which are universal.


2. It doesn't matter because you don't get to make less logical than mine exceptions to your rules about resistance to matter manipulation. More durable beings are inherently more resistant than less durable ones unless stated or shown otherwise. That's the standard. Assuming that a being who can manipulate paper can also manipulate a nearly indestructible material is absurd.


3. Thanos is vastly more durable than the pyramids, many times over. The pyramids are just sand and stone - it's not even close. A fighter jet could demolish a pyramid with ease, but it wouldn't leave a scratch on Thanos.


4. The movie contradicts your argument at the end. Re-watch the scene where Apocalypse dies. Regardless, Apocalypse wouldn't be able to manipulate Thanos in the first place.

Matter Manipulation literally negates durability. Also, I'm pretty sure if MCU Thanos had an entire skyscraper dropped him, he wouldn't be brushing it off like lint. Is the glass and steel that is used to construct skyscrapers stronger than Thanos? No. Is the combined mass of a couple hundred thousands of tons of glass and steel enough to hurt Thanos? Probably. And that's one skyscraper. IIRC, Apoc converted the entire downtown section of a city at least to build his new Pyramid. Apoc has TK on both macroscopic and microscopic levels and unless Thanos specifically has some organic, tech, or magical quantum immutability defense, which none of his showings say he does, ESPECIALLY without the Infinity Gauntlet, then Thanos has no defense against Apoc TKing him into the core of the Earth or transmuting his heart into a marble brick.

Originally posted by h1a8


I'd say neither of them can hurt Thanos with their telekinesis unless they use a very durable and sharp object to do so, like Thanos' sword, for example.

He probably could use his own sword against him.

Just with his TK he should give Thanos the same treatment SW gave him in EndGame.

Originally posted by h1a8
That said, Apocalypse may have more raw power but Maw has more precision and strategy.

Apoc absolutely has more raw power and precision going by on screen feats.

And that's before we consider all his other abilities (shields, matter manipulation, even teleportation).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He probably could use his own sword against him.

Just with his TK he should give Thanos the same treatment SW gave him in EndGame.



Apoc absolutely has more raw power and precision going by on screen feats.

And that's before we consider all his other abilities (shields, matter manipulation, even teleportation).

Precision and strategy go to Maw.
SW was able to break Thanos' sword, whereas Apoc has no feats on that level.
He might be able to suspend Thanos in the air, but he isn't damaging him at all.

Originally posted by h1a8
Precision and strategy go to Maw.
SW was able to break Thanos' sword, whereas Apoc has no feats on that level.
He might be able to suspend Thanos in the air, but he isn't damaging him at all.

So you're going to ignore the feats that Place Apoc solidly above Maw in both precision(assembling a pyramid on the fly and disassembling a city to reassemble into a pyramid) and strategy(using Cerebro to cripple Earth's nuclear defenses, manipulating Magneto, Storm, Angel, etc...)

Maw couldn't even stop the drill bits he created when Strange/Wong shot them back at him.

And ignore that he has city-level TK and matter manipulation.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Matter Manipulation literally negates durability. Also, I'm pretty sure if MCU Thanos had an entire skyscraper dropped him, he wouldn't be brushing it off like lint. Is the glass and steel that is used to construct skyscrapers stronger than Thanos? No. Is the combined mass of a couple hundred thousands of tons of glass and steel enough to hurt Thanos? Probably. And that's one skyscraper. IIRC, Apoc converted the entire downtown section of a city at least to build his new Pyramid. Apoc has TK on both macroscopic and microscopic levels and unless Thanos specifically has some organic, tech, or magical quantum immutability defense, which none of his showings say he does, ESPECIALLY without the Infinity Gauntlet, then Thanos has no defense against Apoc TKing him into the core of the Earth or transmuting his heart into a marble brick.


Matter manipulation doesn't bypass sufficient durability. The manipulator's power must exceed the target's durability to be effective. That's why many beings across various mediums resist matter manipulation purely through their high durability.

Otherwise, characters like Surfer would easily defeat anyone (Odin, Thor, Galactus, Knull, etc.) with matter manipulation alone.

Where is Apoc supposed to get a skyscraper from?
What is Thanos doing in the meantime while Apoc slowly lifts and drops a skyscraper on him?

This isn't member-controlled characters. Characters fight in character, using their own creativity and natural tendencies.
You not only have to prove that Apoc is capable of doing something but also that he would think of it and choose to do it in character.

Originally posted by KingD19
So you're going to ignore the feats that Place Apoc solidly above Maw in both precision(assembling a pyramid on the fly and disassembling a city to reassemble into a pyramid) and strategy(using Cerebro to cripple Earth's nuclear defenses, manipulating Magneto, Storm, Angel, etc...)

Maw couldn't even stop the drill bits he created when Strange/Wong shot them back at him.

And ignore that he has city-level TK and matter manipulation.
I was referring more to quick thinking. Maw's real-time, on-the-fly strategy is top tier, whereas Apoc takes time to think through his actions.

Doctor Strange opened a portal to position the bits behind Maw.

Anyway, Apoc has more raw power with his TK - that's clear. But Maw excels in quick thinking and battlefield creativity. He's more crafty and inventive in combat.

Lol at city-level TK - it's more like small-town-level TK.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
When did Maw directly toss Tony? Not saying it didn't happen, but the only instance I recall was when Maw launched pieces of concrete and debris with Iron Man on top of it, while Tony was talking to Bruce about his suit. At the 12 second mark here:

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Maw's powers were very inconsistent though. For example, in Endgame, he couldn't even directly lift the Infinity Gauntlet, and had to use rocks to lift it. You are correct. He used the ground to lift Tony. I stand corrected. Well I agree, very inconsistent.

Originally posted by h1a8
I was referring more to quick thinking. Maw's real-time, on-the-fly strategy is top tier, whereas Apoc takes time to think through his actions.

Doctor Strange opened a portal to position the bits behind Maw.

Anyway, Apoc has more raw power with his TK - that's clear. But Maw excels in quick thinking and battlefield creativity. He's more crafty and inventive in combat.

Lol at city-level TK - it's more like small-town-level TK.

Strange opened a portal to absorb them, Wong opened a portal to shoot them right back at Maw. At his face. He put a car up to block them and some still punched through and one sliced him across the face. My point stands that he couldn't even stop his own projectiles.

And Apoc's TK is powerful enough to trigger earthquakes in Germany and Poland while he's in Egypt, so yeah I'd say at least city level is an accurate statement.

https://youtu.be/Me-V0qTJ6do?t=122

Originally posted by h1a8
Matter manipulation doesn't bypass sufficient durability. The manipulator's power must exceed the target's durability to be effective. That's why many beings across various mediums resist matter manipulation purely through their high durability.

Otherwise, characters like Surfer would easily defeat anyone (Odin, Thor, Galactus, Knull, etc.) with matter manipulation alone.

Where is Apoc supposed to get a skyscraper from?
What is Thanos doing in the meantime while Apoc slowly lifts and drops a skyscraper on him?

This isn't member-controlled characters. Characters fight in character, using their own creativity and natural tendencies.
You not only have to prove that Apoc is capable of doing something but also that he would think of it and choose to do it in character. Yes. It literally does. Again, every character you mention as being resistant to matter manipulation is also either a matter manipulator, a cosmic entity, or both.

The skyscraper being dropped on Thanos scenario is just an example of Thanos's inferior durability, not necessarily a tactic to be used in this fight although if it was, Thanos would be held in place like the punk purple crybaby bytch he is due to Apoc's TK, which he has no defense against, especially considering Spiderman's webs were enough to temporarily restrain him.

And finally the core of your ridiculous argument that Apoc can't transmute Thanos' organs because "he hasn't specifically shown that tactic onscreen." Not only is that indisputably false as killing people by merging them with inanimate objects, aka Apoc's signature move, is effectively the same thing as transmuting their organs, but it just literally goes to show that you have to mentally lobotomize Apoc to give Thanos an even remote chance of not immediately dying when the match begins, which says for itself who the obvious true victor of this match is.

Originally posted by KingD19
Strange opened a portal to absorb them, Wong opened a portal to shoot them right back at Maw. At his face. He put a car up to block them and some still punched through and one sliced him across the face. My point stands that he couldn't even stop his own projectiles.

And Apoc's TK is powerful enough to trigger earthquakes in Germany and Poland while he's in Egypt, so yeah I'd say at least city level is an accurate statement.

https://youtu.be/Me-V0qTJ6do?t=122

Just bad writing. Maw didn't even attempt to stop them, but that doesn't mean he lacked the ability.

I don't recall that. Show the scene where he caused earthquakes in Germany and Poland while in Egypt.

Regardless, Apoc has far more raw power than Maw.

Originally posted by h1a8
Just bad writing. Maw didn't even attempt to stop them, but that doesn't mean he lacked the ability.

I don't recall that. Show the scene where he caused earthquakes in Germany and Poland while in Egypt.

Regardless, Apoc has far more raw power than Maw.

Considering he threw a car up in front of him to act as a shield instead of reasserting control over them, stands to reason he simply couldn't or else he would have. Call it bad writing if you want, but it seems more like an establishment of his limitations to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RTvideos/comments/fh3863/en_sabah_nur_earthquake/ - Magneto is in Poland working in a factory and feels the earthquake, so do Nightcrawler and Mystique who are in Germany.

Originally posted by h1a8


Regardless, Apoc has far more raw power than Maw.


Good. A concession. Less raw power and less versatility. We can quit the comparison now.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Yes. It literally does. Again, every character you mention as being resistant to matter manipulation is also either a matter manipulator, a cosmic entity, or both.

The skyscraper being dropped on Thanos scenario is just an example of Thanos's inferior durability, not necessarily a tactic to be used in this fight although if it was, Thanos would be held in place like the punk purple crybaby bytch he is due to Apoc's TK, which he has no defense against, especially considering Spiderman's webs were enough to temporarily restrain him.

And finally the core of your ridiculous argument that Apoc can't transmute Thanos' organs because "he hasn't specifically shown that tactic onscreen." Not only is that indisputably false as killing people by merging them with inanimate objects, aka Apoc's signature move, is effectively the same thing as transmuting their organs, but it just literally goes to show that you have to mentally lobotomize Apoc to give Thanos an even remote chance of not immediately dying when the match begins, which says for itself who the obvious true victor of this match is.

1. The characters I mentioned are extremely durable. Possessing matter manipulation doesn't grant their body resistance against it, so your counter fails. There are plenty of highly durable comic characters who aren't cosmic entities or matter manipulators yet still resist matter manipulation.
2. Inferior durability? Thanos is vastly more durable than Apoc. What makes you think his durability is inferior?
3. While Apoc can't transmute any part of Thanos, I never claimed it's because he didn't show it onscreen; he simply lacks the ability. My point is that combatants fight in character. This isn't about what you would do if you had Apoc's powers; Apoc fights based on his own creativity and tendencies.

Originally posted by h1a8
This isn't member-controlled characters. Characters fight in character, using their own creativity and natural tendencies.
You not only have to prove that Apoc is capable of doing something but also that he would think of it and choose to do it in character.

4. Apoc has never shown the ability to transmute objects contained within another object without first transmuting the outer layer. His transmutation always begins from the outside.

Originally posted by Darth Thor


Just with his TK he should give Thanos the same treatment SW gave him in EndGame.


Based on what?
Who did he crush with Tk even half as durable as Thanos that suggests he would do the same to Thanos?

SW destroyed a freaking infinity stone. And even destroyed Thanos blade .which said blade is superior to Cap's shield.

Best Apoc can hope for is a stalemate if he can keep Thanos from getting in close.

Rr_KSc9utMM

Yeah, Apoc wins.

Originally posted by Robtard
Rr_KSc9utMM

Yeah, Apoc wins.

Without much trouble to be honest.

Originally posted by tkitna
Without much trouble to be honest.

Originally posted by Robtard
Rr_KSc9utMM

Yeah, Apoc wins.

Read the last few posts to catch up. The consensus is that Apoc can't harm Thanos with TK because Thanos is too durable. If you believe Apoc can, then provide feats where he used TK to damage something or someone with high durability.

Originally posted by h1a8
Read the last few posts to catch up. The consensus is that Apoc can't harm Thanos with TK because Thanos is too durable. If you believe Apoc can, then provide feats where he used TK to damage something or someone with high durability.

"the consensus"

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What consensus? If it were up to a democratic vote, the consensus would be that Apoc wins.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
What consensus? If it were up to a democratic vote, the consensus would be that Apoc wins.

To h1, "consensus" means "what h1 agrees with".

H1's line of thinking and sloppy debate technique -

"There wasn't a character in the X-Men movie that was as boss and durable as Thanos and regardless of any feats, like destroying an entire city to create something else with his TK, i'll just use that as my argument because I just want to stand out and go against conventional common sense to pretend like i'm the smartest person in the room although everybody knows i'm not and it's an idiotic point."

I enjoyed the augment that Apoc wouldn't lift or move Thanos around with his TK, even though we see Apoc lifting and moving what amounts to hundreds of thousands of tons.

Reeks of desperation, hilarious levels of it.

Originally posted by Robtard
I enjoyed the augment that Apoc wouldn't lift or move Thanos around with his TK, even though we see Apoc lifting and moving what amounts to hundreds of thousands of tons.

Reeks of desperation, hilarious levels of it.

Why lie? If you're right, let the truth speak for itself. I never said Apoc wouldn't use TK to lift or move Thanos. I said,

For example, I don't see Apocalypse lifting Thanos off the ground and holding him in the air like Scarlet Witch did at the start of their fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why lie? If you're right, let the truth speak for itself. I never said Apoc wouldn't use TK to lift or move Thanos. I said,

For example, I don't see Apocalypse lifting Thanos off the ground and holding him in the air like Scarlet Witch did at the start of their fight.

You claim I lied and then quote yourself where you directly implied doing what I said was being done. I thought you were supposed to be smart.

Originally posted by tkitna
Without much trouble to be honest.
Hey I don't get it. Help me out here, Are you saying Apoc would crush Thanos without much trouble or is there something I'm missing here?

He can keep him away though as I said earlier.

Originally posted by Robtard
You claim I lied and then quote yourself where you directly implied doing what I said was being done. I thought you were supposed to be smart.

Lifting or moving Thanos with TK ≠ holding him suspended in the air like SW did. I can see Apoc pushing Thanos back with TK (in which he is lifted), but not keeping him suspended midair like SW did.

How did you not understand that?

Why can't he keep him suspended? Physically strength can't overpower tk. It's not like he can flex and break out of the invisible force keeping him floating and unable to move.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Hey I don't get it. Help me out here, Are you saying Apoc would crush Thanos without much trouble or is there something I'm missing here?

He can keep him away though as I said earlier.

That's what I said. Your not missing anything. There is no possible way for Thanos to win. Apoc can suspend him helplessly, has force fields that Magneto couldn't even breach, and has powers of matter manipulation among others. Eventuallt Thanos falls. There is no way Thanos can win.

Originally posted by h1a8
Lifting or moving Thanos with TK ≠ holding him suspended in the air like SW did. I can see Apoc pushing Thanos back with TK (in which he is lifted), but not keeping him suspended midair like SW did.

How did you not understand that?

How in the world would he not be able to lift and keep him suspended? What can Thanos do to possibly prevent that?

Originally posted by h1a8
Lifting or moving Thanos with TK ≠ holding him suspended in the air like SW did. I can see Apoc pushing Thanos back with TK (in which he is lifted), but not keeping him suspended midair like SW did.

How did you not understand that?

You're making a distinction without a difference.

I understand your clown tactics, why I'm calling them out as such.

Originally posted by tkitna
How in the world would he not be able to lift and keep him suspended? What can Thanos do to possibly prevent that?

Originally posted by KingD19
Why can't he keep him suspended? Physically strength can't overpower tk. It's not like he can flex and break out of the invisible force keeping him floating and unable to move. If you read the original exchange, you'd know it has nothing to do with ability. The key word Robtard used - and the one you missed - is "wouldn't."

Originally posted by Robtard
You're making a distinction without a difference.

I understand your clown tactics, why I'm calling them out as such.

So you're saying SW holding Thanos in the air for an extended period is no different from Apoc using TK to blow his opponents away through the air?

And I'm the one using clown tactics?

Originally posted by h1a8
So you're saying SW holding Thanos in the air for an extended period is no different from Apoc using TK to blow his opponents away through the air?

And I'm the one using clown tactics?

If Apoc can lift, move and hold thousands of objects through the air simultaneously, like he did when assembling a city brick by brick, he can certainly, lift, move and/or hold Thanos if he wants. He's not a stupid character, the opposite actually. Your arguments are ridiculous.

Correct, you're the clown

Originally posted by Robtard
If Apoc can lift, move and hold thousands of objects through the air simultaneously, like he did when assembling a city brick by brick, he can certainly, lift, move and/or hold Thanos if he wants. He's not a stupid character, the opposite actually. Your arguments are ridiculous.

Correct, you're the clown

The argument is whether he would, not whether he could.
Keep up!

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Feats Part #1

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Feats Part #2

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Feats Part #3

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Feats Part #4

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Feats part #5

I'm sorry h1, but in this case, without the Stones, Thanos is literally nothing more than a tactical Hulk with a sword, and Apoc has the feats to deal with far worse, because it took some really insane levels of bullsh!t to down him permanently.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Based on what?
Who did he crush with Tk even half as durable as Thanos that suggests he would do the same to Thanos?

SW destroyed a freaking infinity stone. And even destroyed Thanos blade .which said blade is superior to Cap's shield.

Best Apoc can hope for is a stalemate if he can keep Thanos from getting in close.


I was referring more to lifting Thanos helplessly in the air.

That said does SW have a TK feat as good as putting together a Pyramid?

He's not destroyed an Infinity Stone, and he's not destroyed Cap's shield. Could be because he did not encounter those things (or anything similar).

That said Magento can manipulate Adamantium and Apoc's TK seemed easily on par with Magneto's control over metal. The MCU seems to suggest Adamantium is stronger than Vibranium (i.e. Cap's shield), though tbf you could argue that I'm crossing timelines and universes with that one, although they are getting more and more merged into the current MCU.

If we're just talking raw power then I'll add his shields to his TK, and then for sure Apoc seems stronger than SW in Endgame, and that's still before including any of his other abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If we're just talking raw power then I'll add his shields to his TK, and then for sure Apoc seems stronger than SW in Endgame, and that's still before including any of his other abilities.

^ To clarify his shields seem to be an extension of his TK abilities.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


I'm sorry h1, but in this case, without the Stones, Thanos is literally nothing more than a tactical Hulk with a sword, and Apoc has the feats to deal with far worse, because it took some really insane levels of bullsh!t to down him permanently.

We all know Apoc's feats. Thanos has a chance to win due to Apoc's in-character limitations. If this were a scenario with member-controlled characters, there's no way Apoc would lose - but we're not debating power sets.

I can see the fight ending in a stalemate if Apocalypse keeps his distance the entire time. But how likely is that? It's also unclear whether his tk is strong enough to actually hurt Thanos. Thanos tanked blows from an enraged Hulk, endured over three seconds of sustained lightning (which far exceeds a standard lightning strike), and took hits from both Thor and Captain Marvel without showing damage. He's far more powerful than Ronan and was described as the most powerful being in the universe. Based on feats, we know how strong these characters are. This is by no means an easy quick win for Apoc.

Originally posted by h1a8
We all know Apoc's feats. Thanos has a chance to win due to Apoc's in-character limitations. If this were a scenario with member-controlled characters, there's no way Apoc would lose - but we're not debating power sets.

I can see the fight ending in a stalemate if Apocalypse keeps his distance the entire time. But how likely is that? It's also unclear whether his tk is strong enough to actually hurt Thanos. Thanos tanked blows from an enraged Hulk, endured over three seconds of sustained lightning (which far exceeds a standard lightning strike), and took hits from both Thor and Captain Marvel without showing damage. He's far more powerful than Ronan and was described as the most powerful being in the universe. Based on feats, we know how strong these characters are. This is by no means an easy quick win for Apoc.

Why are you not debating powerset, H1 (femtoseconds)?

Originally posted by h1a8
We all know Apoc's feats. Thanos has a chance to win due to Apoc's in-character limitations. If this were a scenario with member-controlled characters, there's no way Apoc would lose - but we're not debating power sets.

I can see the fight ending in a stalemate if Apocalypse keeps his distance the entire time. But how likely is that? It's also unclear whether his tk is strong enough to actually hurt Thanos. Thanos tanked blows from an enraged Hulk, endured over three seconds of sustained lightning (which far exceeds a standard lightning strike), and took hits from both Thor and Captain Marvel without showing damage. He's far more powerful than Ronan and was described as the most powerful being in the universe. Based on feats, we know how strong these characters are. This is by no means an easy quick win for Apoc.

Given that physical durability doesn't mean a thing against matter manipulation, even in the slightest, how do you state that Thanos has any form of resistance to being reduced to sand, or fused into the ground? Thanos has never tanked anything of the kind before, and the one time he was on the recieving end of such a technique (Tony's snap) he folded as easily as anyone else did. Also, I do not understand why it would be out of character for Apoc to do this, considering when faced with opponents he definitely wanted to kill (The humans who were going to beat the shit out of Storm, or the workers Eric was going to murk in the steel mill) he simply did it. and near effortlessly, without too much time either, especially in the steel will workers case, he reduced the entire factory full of em near instantly.

Originally posted by h1a8

I can see the fight ending in a stalemate if Apocalypse keeps his distance the entire time. But how likely is that? It's also unclear whether his tk is strong enough to actually hurt Thanos. Thanos tanked blows from an enraged Hulk, endured over three seconds of sustained lightning (which far exceeds a standard lightning strike), and took hits from both Thor and Captain Marvel without showing damage. He's far more powerful than Ronan and was described as the most powerful being in the universe. Based on feats, we know how strong these characters are. This is by no means an easy quick win for Apoc.


Apoc took 8 full powered speed punches from Quicksilver. So he's not some physical mook. Not to mention insane TK defences tanking full on attacks from Magneto, Storm and Cyclops.

He also has instantaneous healing abilities if he does get hit (Mystique slit his throat, which healed right away).

So that's just a physical fight with TK. But we all understand Thanos has shown nothing to suggest he wouldn't just get transmutated.

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you not debating powerset, H1 (femtoseconds)? Read the OP.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Given that physical durability doesn't mean a thing against matter manipulation, even in the slightest, how do you state that Thanos has any form of resistance to being reduced to sand, or fused into the ground? Thanos has never tanked anything of the kind before, and the one time he was on the recieving end of such a technique (Tony's snap) he folded as easily as anyone else did. Also, I do not understand why it would be out of character for Apoc to do this, considering when faced with opponents he definitely wanted to kill (The humans who were going to beat the shit out of Storm, or the workers Eric was going to murk in the steel mill) he simply did it. and near effortlessly, without too much time either, especially in the steel will workers case, he reduced the entire factory full of em near instantly.

I guess you missed these:

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos inherently has resistance to matter transmutation. The standard rule is that the more durable a being or object is, the more resistant it is to matter manipulation.

You need to prove that Apoc can transmute someone as durable as Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's the status quo: the more durable something is, the harder it is to manipulate its structure. That's not only a scientific fact but also consistently shown throughout comics - examples exist where highly durable objects and beings resist matter manipulation to some degree.

Now, consider the alternative.
If that weren't the case, in the comics, Surfer would just beat anyone - Thanos, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Runner - by simply turning them into a table. But you never see anyone seriously arguing that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Apoc took 8 full powered speed punches from Quicksilver. So he's not some physical mook. Not to mention insane TK defences tanking full on attacks from Magneto, Storm and Cyclops.

He also has instantaneous healing abilities if he does get hit (Mystique slit his throat, which healed right away).

So that's just a physical fight with TK. But we all understand Thanos has shown nothing to suggest he wouldn't just get transmutated. Thanos is vastly more powerful than Quicksilver, with strength that surpasses even Hulk's. His sword is capable of decapitating or severing limbs and torso.

I'm not saying Thanos will win, but he does have a chance, even if it's small. His durability is sufficient to prolong the fight long enough to give him that chance.

Originally posted by h1a8
The argument is whether he would, not whether he could.
Keep up!

Prove Apoc wouldn't, prove he's too stupid to not use his abilities in a manner he's already shown. Go, clown!

Originally posted by h1a8
We all know Apoc's feats. Thanos has a chance to win due to Apoc's in-character limitations. If this were a scenario with member-controlled characters, there's no way Apoc would lose - but we're not debating power sets.


https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png

So again you have to mentally gimp Apoc for Thanos to have a chance. Of course

Originally posted by h1a8
I can see the fight ending in a stalemate if Apocalypse keeps his distance the entire time. But how likely is that?

https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png
It's most certainly not ending in a stalemate and of course he can keep his distance. He's A PHUCKING TELEKINETIC

Originally posted by h1a8
IIt's also unclear whether his tk is strong enough to actually hurt Thanos. Thanos tanked blows from an enraged Hulk, endured over three seconds of sustained lightning (which far exceeds a standard lightning strike), and took hits from both Thor and Captain Marvel without showing damage. He's far more powerful than Ronan and was described as the most powerful being in the universe. Based on feats, we know how strong these characters are. This is by no means an easy quick win for Apoc.

Literally all of those feats and statements (besides maybe the Hulk feat) were because he had the Gauntlet. Using the "most powerful being in the universe" quote to describe his innate powers without the gauntlet is hilarious misrepresentation and I'm surprised that you're so desperate that you had the audacity to say such grade A bullshit 😂😭🤣

Originally posted by Robtard
Prove Apoc wouldn't, prove he's too stupid to not use his abilities in a manner he's already shown. Go, clown!

You're creating a straw man. No one is arguing that he wouldn't use his abilities in ways he's already shown. You claimed he would use them in a way he hasn't demonstrated - one that doesn't align with his mindset, creativity, or tendencies. Apoc has shown a propensity for matter manipulation, using telekinesis to throw opponents, etc., but not for suspending someone in the air indefinitely like SW did.

Even if he did suspend Thanos, that alone wouldn't win the fight. He still has to knock out or kill him - and if he's capable of doing that, he WOULD attempt to do it without needing to hold Thanos in the air indefinitely first.

Originally posted by Lestov16
https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png

So again you have to mentally gimp Apoc for Thanos to have a chance. Of course



https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png
It's most certainly not ending in a stalemate and of course he can keep his distance. He's A PHUCKING TELEKINETIC



Literally all of those feats and statements (besides maybe the Hulk feat) were because he had the Gauntlet. Using the "most powerful being in the universe" quote to describe his innate powers without the gauntlet is hilarious misrepresentation and I'm surprised that you're so desperate that you had the audacity to say such grade A bullshit 😂😭🤣 The Gauntlet didn't enhance Thanos physically. Being called "the most powerful being in the universe" is just one small part of the larger picture -it's meaningless on its own without supporting feats.

Simply being a telekinetic doesn't guarantee a win if you can't actually harm or damage your opponent with that ability.

Originally posted by h1a8
I guess you missed these:

Thats not even remotely how that works. You stating it is the status quo doesn't make it any more true than it was before you said it. What you've just demonstrated is a classic Ad Populum logical fallacy.

Originally posted by h1a8
You're creating a straw man. No one is arguing that he wouldn't use his abilities in ways he's already shown. You claimed he would use them in a way he hasn't demonstrated - one that doesn't align with his mindset, creativity, or tendencies. Apoc has shown a propensity for matter manipulation, using telekinesis to throw opponents, etc., but not for suspending someone in the air indefinitely like SW did.

Even if he did suspend Thanos, that alone wouldn't win the fight. He still has to knock out or kill him - and if he's capable of doing that, he WOULD attempt to do it without needing to hold Thanos in the air indefinitely first.

Wanda didn't hold him indefinitely. She was actively ripping off his armor and crushing him, which is why he had his ship open fire to get him free. And Wanda's best TK feat is not near Apoc's so he can easily do the same.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos is vastly more powerful than Quicksilver,




Is he? Not sure. But given he wasn't hurt at all by QS, is pretty noteworthy. A QS who was clearly going all out, and landed 8 all out punches.


Originally posted by h1a8
You're creating a straw man. No one is arguing that he wouldn't use his abilities in ways he's already shown. You claimed he would use them in a way he hasn't demonstrated - one that doesn't align with his mindset, creativity, or tendencies. Apoc has shown a propensity for matter manipulation, using telekinesis to throw opponents, etc., but not for suspending someone in the air indefinitely like SW did.

Even if he did suspend Thanos, that alone wouldn't win the fight. He still has to knock out or kill him - and if he's capable of doing that, he WOULD attempt to do it without needing to hold Thanos in the air indefinitely first.


He's used his powers in many different ways depending on the opponent. Example Quicksilver.

He uses matter manip, because he can, it's the simplest way for a win.

But his TK shields were pretty OP. And he can take a punch (Quicksilver), and he has instantaneous healing abilities.

You're just gimping Apoc to give Thanos a chance. It's over.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thats not even remotely how that works. You stating it is the status quo doesn't make it any more true than it was before you said it. What you've just demonstrated is a classic Ad Populum logical fallacy.

You claimed that beings with matter manipulation can affect any material, regardless of its durability.

Let's examine this from three perspectives:

1. Statistical:
The null hypothesis - the status quo - is the opposite of your claim: that beings cannot necessarily manipulate all matter regardless of durability. To reject this, you must provide evidence that reaches the level of statistical significance.

2. Logical:
Your claim is a universal statement. As such, a single counterexample is sufficient to disprove it. Numerous examples exist of characters resisting matter manipulation due to high durability - Superman, for instance, has resisted such attempts.

3. Scientific:
Stronger materials require more force to break their molecular bonds. For Apoc to bypass the durability of any being or object, he would need to exert unlimited force to overcome all types of molecular structures, even fictional ones.

Originally posted by KingD19
Wanda didn't hold him indefinitely. She was actively ripping off his armor and crushing him, which is why he had his ship open fire to get him free. And Wanda's best TK feat is not near Apoc's so he can easily do the same.
Indefinitely means for an unspecified or unlimited amount of time, with no clear endpoint. Apoc has never held anyone or anything in one spot for any duration. Whenever he lifted something or someone, he simultaneously moved them away.

If that isn't clear, then let me rephrase: Apoc has never suspended anything in the air in one spot for more than one second. Is that better?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Is he? Not sure. But given he wasn't hurt at all by QS, is pretty noteworthy. A QS who was clearly going all out, and landed 8 all out punches.





He's used his powers in many different ways depending on the opponent. Example Quicksilver.

He uses matter manip, because he can, it's the simplest way for a win.

But his TK shields were pretty OP. And he can take a punch (Quicksilver), and he has instantaneous healing abilities.

You're just gimping Apoc to give Thanos a chance. It's over.

How does resistance to Quicksilver's punches prove that he can resist being decapitated or having his limbs and torso severed by Thanos' sword?

How does that prove he won't be knocked out by a punch from Thanos?

Originally posted by h1a8
How does resistance to Quicksilver's punches prove that he can resist being decapitated or having his limbs and torso severed by Thanos' sword?

He has TK Shields for that. One lightning strike by Cap and he lost his weapon. If he drops it against Apoc he can keep it away from him, or use it against Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
How does that prove he won't be knocked out by a punch from Thanos?

Because QS is very powerful. That was 8 full powered punches in presumably less than a second and he wasn't knocked out. You'll have to prove 1 punch from Thanos is > 8 from QS.

Originally posted by Robtard
Prove Apoc wouldn't, prove he's too stupid to not use his abilities in a manner he's already shown. Go, clown!

This

All Apoc did in the movie was fight with his powers. He never goes H2H.

Originally posted by h1a8
You claimed that beings with matter manipulation can affect any material, regardless of its durability.

Let's examine this from three perspectives:

1. Statistical:
The null hypothesis - the status quo - is the opposite of your claim: that beings cannot necessarily manipulate all matter regardless of durability. To reject this, you must provide evidence that reaches the level of statistical significance.

2. Logical:
Your claim is a universal statement. As such, a single counterexample is sufficient to disprove it. Numerous examples exist of characters resisting matter manipulation due to high durability - Superman, for instance, has resisted such attempts.

3. Scientific:
Stronger materials require more force to break their molecular bonds. For Apoc to bypass the durability of any being or object, he would need to exert unlimited force to overcome all types of molecular structures, even fictional ones.

Again, false equivalency fallacy.



Thanos is not Superman, and has shown in canon and comics to resist these things, Thanos has not done the same in the Cinematic universe, and on top of this, the one time he is exposed to matter manipulation, he flopped, and got disintegrated. Hard.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Again, false equivalency fallacy.



Thanos is not Superman, and has shown in canon and comics to resist these things, Thanos has not done the same in the Cinematic universe, and on top of this, the one time he is exposed to matter manipulation, he flopped, and got disintegrated. Hard.
.

You completely ignored the statistical and scientific perspectives.

You are mistaken - there is no false equivalence fallacy here. You're simply making things up.

From a logical standpoint, you made a universal claim. A single counterexample is enough to disprove it. Superman and other beings or objects have resisted matter manipulation due to their high durability.

The Infinity Gauntlet has demonstrated the ability to matter manipulate someone as durable as Thanos. Apoc has not. In fact, the Gauntlet matter manipulated half the universe - an astronomical feat far beyond Apoc's scope. Therefore, your argument that Apoc can manipulate Thanos simply because the Infinity Gauntlet did is faulty.

A false equivalence occurs when two things are compared as being similar when they are not. I'm not comparing two dissimilar things - I'm showing that your rule doesn't always hold.

So unless my example is entirely unrelated (which it's not), I'm simply refuting a universal claim with a valid counterexample.

Originally posted by h1a8
.


The Infinity Gauntlet has demonstrated the ability to matter manipulate someone as durable as Thanos. Apoc has not. In fact, the Gauntlet matter manipulated half the universe - an astronomical feat far beyond Apoc's scope. Therefore, your argument that Apoc can manipulate Thanos simply because the Infinity Gauntlet did is faulty.



Apocalypse has demonstrated the ability to use telekinesis on a scale far beyond anything Scarlet Witch has done, yet her TK was strong enough to force Thanos to attack his own troops to save his life. So by your own logic, Apocalypse can do just as much, and much more damage to Thanos with his own TK. You're making up your own rules about matter manip as well, but it doesn't matter since he can fold him like a pretzel with TK.

And don't think I forgot how you ignored my proof that Apocalypse when he just woke up was powerful enough to cause trigger earthquakes in Germany and Poland while he was in Cairo. Keep in mind the distance from Cairo to Poland is 2,810 miles and from Cairo to Germany is 2,939 miles. The simple act of him waking up and teleporting caused earthquakes nearly 3,000 miles away and you're still trying to downplay him.

The consensus is Apoc wins due to his vast array of powers and scale of power, vs a guy who is just a brick in this fight.

H1 will continue to spin points and gimp Apoc to force his failed arguments.

Originally posted by h1a8
.

You completely ignored the statistical and scientific perspectives.

You are mistaken - there is no false equivalence fallacy here. You're simply making things up.

From a logical standpoint, you made a universal claim. A single counterexample is enough to disprove it. Superman and other beings or objects have resisted matter manipulation due to their high durability.

The Infinity Gauntlet has demonstrated the ability to matter manipulate someone as durable as Thanos. Apoc has not. In fact, the Gauntlet matter manipulated half the universe - an astronomical feat far beyond Apoc's scope. Therefore, your argument that Apoc can manipulate Thanos simply because the Infinity Gauntlet did is faulty.

A false equivalence occurs when two things are compared as being similar when they are not. I'm not comparing two dissimilar things - I'm showing that your rule doesn't always hold.

So unless my example is entirely unrelated (which it's not), I'm simply refuting a universal claim with a valid counterexample.

I didn't ignore it, I disregarded it based on actual imperical evidence proving the very contrary to your claim. The one time Thanos was ACTUALLY exposed to matter manipulation in canon, he could not resist it. He disintegrated. You are again trying to make a comparative where none exists. Thanos, has not ever resisted matter manipulation at any level. The onus is on you to prove he can resist Apocalypse's matter manipulation by way of feats. We do not have to prove the negative, since the assertion was made by you that he can do so, you have to prove he can.

I can tell you now, if you tried this shit on a debating forum with properly enforced rules of engagement, you'd be tossed on your ass. Don't ever go to Spacebattles or Sufficient velocity mate, you'd be banned for bad faith debating practices so fast it'd make everyone's head spin.

Originally posted by Robtard
H1 will continue to spin points and gimp Apoc to force his failed arguments.

And it's just to get a rise out of people. He does this in every thread just to be heard. There is no possible way that one person can go against the majority so often and truly believe he is right.

Originally posted by KingD19
Apocalypse has demonstrated the ability to use telekinesis on a scale far beyond anything Scarlet Witch has done, yet her TK was strong enough to force Thanos to attack his own troops to save his life. So by your own logic, Apocalypse can do just as much, and much more damage to Thanos with his own TK. You're making up your own rules about matter manip as well, but it doesn't matter since he can fold him like a pretzel with TK.

And don't think I forgot how you ignored my proof that Apocalypse when he just woke up was powerful enough to cause trigger earthquakes in Germany and Poland while he was in Cairo. Keep in mind the distance from Cairo to Poland is 2,810 miles and from Cairo to Germany is 2,939 miles. The simple act of him waking up and teleporting caused earthquakes nearly 3,000 miles away and you're still trying to downplay him.

I didn't make up any rules.
There are established principles in statistics, logic, and science that refute that claim.

Scarlet Witch destroyed a weapon more durable than Cap's shield. It must be proven that Apoc can do the same.

While it's possible that Apoc could focus all his telekinetic force into a small area, we can't say that with certainty. If he could, then he should be able to rip Thanos apart with TK and win easily.

The tremors appeared to be a chain reaction caused by some instability triggered when Apoc teleported away. I don't believe that showing is any greater the pyramid forming one.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I didn't ignore it, I disregarded it based on actual imperical evidence proving the very contrary to your claim. The one time Thanos was ACTUALLY exposed to matter manipulation in canon, he could not resist it. He disintegrated. You are again trying to make a comparative where none exists. Thanos, has not ever resisted matter manipulation at any level. The onus is on you to prove he can resist Apocalypse's matter manipulation by way of feats. We do not have to prove the negative, since the assertion was made by you that he can do so, you have to prove he can.

I can tell you now, if you tried this shit on a debating forum with properly enforced rules of engagement, you'd be tossed on your ass. Don't ever go to Spacebattles or Sufficient velocity mate, you'd be banned for bad faith debating practices so fast it'd make everyone's head spin.
You're now resorting to trolling by ignoring my arguments without addressing them. Repeating yourself while refusing to engage with the points I've raised is trolling.

Here's a summary of my points:

Statistics: You made a claim that contradicts the null hypothesis, asserting a special attribute. The burden is on you to prove it to the level of statistical significance.

Logic: I provided a counterexample that disproves your universal claim.

Science: Breaking the molecular bonds of more durable objects requires more force than weaker ones. Claiming Apocalypse can matter manipulate anything regardless of durability is a no-limits fallacy.

At this point, it's you who would be banned for ignoring valid arguments and endlessly repeating a rebutted claim.

A higher power matter manipulating Thanos doesn't mean a lower power can. That's like saying if Superman can ko WW, then anyone weaker can too.

Originally posted by Robtard
The consensus is Apoc wins due to his vast array of powers and scale of power, vs a guy who is just a brick in this fight.

H1 will continue to spin points and gimp Apoc to force his failed arguments.

If Apoc can't harm Thanos then how could he win? If he can harm Thanos then prove it.

Originally posted by tkitna
And it's just to get a rise out of people. He does this in every thread just to be heard. There is no possible way that one person can go against the majority so often and truly believe he is right.

Only a few people are debating in these threads.
If you or anyone else is right and I'm wrong, then effectively rebut my arguments and present sound ones in return.

Originally posted by h1a8

If Apoc can't harm Thanos then how could he win? If he can harm Thanos then prove it.


^https://media.tenor.com/Tqq2RZiY838AAAAM/%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%83%D0%BD.gif

Your argument (now) implies that Thanos is invulnerable, when we've seen him take damage. LoL.

Originally posted by Robtard
^https://media.tenor.com/Tqq2RZiY838AAAAM/%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%83%D0%BD.gif

Your argument (now) implies that Thanos is invulnerable, when we've seen him take damage. LoL.

My argument doesn't imply that. Dude, you are getting dumber by the day.

Originally posted by h1a8
My argument doesn't imply that. Dude, you are getting dumber by the day.


Irony.

Originally posted by h1a8

Only a few people are debating in these threads.
If you or anyone else is right and I'm wrong, then effectively rebut my arguments and present sound ones in return.

Your arguments have been squashed numerous times, but you refuse to accept that and continue to make ridiculous counterpoints. It's every thread your involved in. It's so common that I struggle to understand why we continue to entertain it.

If somebody said the sky was blue, you would argue for 20 pages that it was red. It's just who you are. You crave validation and throw common sense out the window to get it.

Originally posted by h1a8
You're now resorting to trolling by ignoring my arguments without addressing them. Repeating yourself while refusing to engage with the points I've raised is trolling.

Here's a summary of my points:

Statistics: You made a claim that contradicts the null hypothesis, asserting a special attribute. The burden is on you to prove it to the level of statistical significance.

Logic: I provided a counterexample that disproves your universal claim.

Science: Breaking the molecular bonds of more durable objects requires more force than weaker ones. Claiming Apocalypse can matter manipulate anything regardless of durability is a no-limits fallacy.

At this point, it's you who would be banned for ignoring valid arguments and endlessly repeating a rebutted claim.

A higher power matter manipulating Thanos doesn't mean a lower power can. That's like saying if Superman can ko WW, then anyone weaker can too.

I've not resorted to trolling. Like you I can ignore or dismiss, a claim made by you with the weight of superior evidence, which is exactly what I did. Trolling would mean I didn't answer you at all. I answered every point you made.

You rebuted no claim, and you gave Thanos an arbitary level of durability to an ability he has never shown. You cannot claim something as fact when it's not been shown. He has shown resistances to ordinary physical and even energy based assaults, but he has never shown resistances to a form of attack that he has no known defense or durability against.

Your claim is that Apoc's matter manip is a no limit fallacy, but my contentionto that argument is that Thanos is no more resistant to it than anyone else has been to it so far, because to claim that hie is more resistant to it requires a feat of doing so. The one time he was exposed to said ability, he didn't resist it. We have no reason to assume such an ability would not work as intended. You are trying to artificially inject both a limit on Apocalypse's ability, AND you're artificially giving Thanos a resistance he has never demonstrated before.

You have literally provided no examples whatsoever, the only think you did was try to technobabble your way through an argument. If you have nothing more of substance to say, then don't bother replying to me, I'm not going to entertain your style of 'debating' a second time.

Originally posted by h1a8
The Gauntlet didn't enhance Thanos physically. Being called "the most powerful being in the universe" is just one small part of the larger picture -it's meaningless on its own without supporting feats.

Simply being a telekinetic doesn't guarantee a win if you can't actually harm or damage your opponent with that ability.

Wait, are you saying he is or is not "the universe's most powerful being"? Because you brought up the quote and implied that it applied here, and I argued that it didn't. Are you saying that it does or does not, and if not, why did you bring it up?

Again, what resistance to telekinesis or immutability to matter manipulation has MCU Thanos shown? Comic book Thanos is effectively an entirely different character with different powers, so his comic book TK immunity doesn't apply here. MCU Thanos, even with the Gauntlet, has been shown to be susceptible to attacks by beings way weaker than Fox Apoc, who, as as opposed to Thanos, is actually way stronger than his comic book counterpart. Apoc has way too many powers to effect Thanos and the only "defense" that you've stated for Thanos is that Apoc will somehow be too stupid to utilize them in the proper manner, which is utter nonsense.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I've not resorted to trolling. Like you I can ignore or dismiss, a claim made by you with the weight of superior evidence, which is exactly what I did. Trolling would mean I didn't answer you at all. I answered every point you made.

You rebuted no claim, and you gave Thanos an arbitary level of durability to an ability he has never shown. You cannot claim something as fact when it's not been shown. He has shown resistances to ordinary physical and even energy based assaults, but he has never shown resistances to a form of attack that he has no known defense or durability against.

Your claim is that Apoc's matter manip is a no limit fallacy, but my contentionto that argument is that Thanos is no more resistant to it than anyone else has been to it so far, because to claim that hie is more resistant to it requires a feat of doing so. The one time he was exposed to said ability, he didn't resist it. We have no reason to assume such an ability would not work as intended. You are trying to artificially inject both a limit on Apocalypse's ability, AND you're artificially giving Thanos a resistance he has never demonstrated before.

You have literally provided no examples whatsoever, the only think you did was try to technobabble your way through an argument. If you have nothing more of substance to say, then don't bother replying to me, I'm not going to entertain your style of 'debating' a second time.

Matter manipulation relies on the use of force to overpower and break the molecular and atomic bonds of materials in order to restructure them. This means a matter manipulator can only affect materials whose bond strength is less than or equal to the maximum force they can exert. Consequently, more durable materials offer greater resistance to manipulation than weaker ones. In fact, highly durable beings and materials have resisted matter manipulation in various instances.

Therefore, the ability to manipulate one specific material does not automatically mean the character can manipulate a more durable material.

Your argument would be sound if Thanos were less durable than something Apoc has already manipulated. In that case, Thanos would need feats showing resistance to matter manipulation.

I rebutted your evidence about Thanos being manipulated by the Gauntlet, but you ignored my rebuttal without offering a counter and simply repeated the same argument. I'll restate my rebuttal more clearly below:

Matter manipulation exists on a spectrum of power levels. More powerful users can manipulate more durable materials than weaker ones. Just because Character A turned adamantium into air doesn't mean Character B - who's only shown turning paper into air - can do the same.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Wait, are you saying he is or is not "the universe's most powerful being"? Because you brought up the quote and implied that it applied here, and I argued that it didn't. Are you saying that it does or does not, and if not, why did you bring it up?

Again, what resistance to telekinesis or immutability to matter manipulation has MCU Thanos shown? Comic book Thanos is effectively an entirely different character with different powers, so his comic book TK immunity doesn't apply here. MCU Thanos, even with the Gauntlet, has been shown to be susceptible to attacks by beings way weaker than Fox Apoc, who, as as opposed to Thanos, is actually way stronger than his comic book counterpart. Apoc has way too many powers to effect Thanos and the only "defense" that you've stated for Thanos is that Apoc will somehow be too stupid to utilize them in the proper manner, which is utter nonsense.

Thanos is not the most powerful being in the universe, especially based off later movies introducing more powerful characters (SW, etc). I never claimed such. But such a claim in a movie gives evidence to Thanos being extremely physically powerful.

I don't see Apoc starting the fight by lifting Thanos into the air and holding him there indefinitely, that's completely out of character. He doesn't need to be stupid to avoid doing that. He'd more likely begin by defending against Thanos' attacks using telekinesis, blocking blows, sending Thanos flying, and so on. At some point during the fight, he may attempt matter manipulation.

It's amazing how people assume a character is stupid just because they don't act exactly how they would.

Originally posted by tkitna
Your arguments have been squashed numerous times, but you refuse to accept that and continue to make ridiculous counterpoints. It's every thread your involved in. It's so common that I struggle to understand why we continue to entertain it.

If somebody said the sky was blue, you would argue for 20 pages that it was red. It's just who you are. You crave validation and throw common sense out the window to get it.

Okay, be specific. Describe a typical scenario, other than matter manipulating Thanos, where Apoc wins the fight. Let's start from there.

Originally posted by h1a8
Matter manipulation relies on the use of force to overpower and break the molecular and atomic bonds of materials in order to restructure them. This means a matter manipulator can only affect materials whose bond strength is less than or equal to the maximum force they can exert. Consequently, more durable materials offer greater resistance to manipulation than weaker ones. In fact, highly durable beings and materials have resisted matter manipulation in various instances.

Therefore, the ability to manipulate one specific material does not automatically mean the character can manipulate a more durable material.

Your argument would be sound if Thanos were less durable than something Apoc has already manipulated. In that case, Thanos would need feats showing resistance to matter manipulation.

I rebutted your evidence about Thanos being manipulated by the Gauntlet, but you ignored my rebuttal without offering a counter and simply repeated the same argument. I'll restate my rebuttal more clearly below:

Matter manipulation exists on a spectrum of power levels. More powerful users can manipulate more durable materials than weaker ones. Just because Character A turned adamantium into air doesn't mean Character B - who's only shown turning paper into air - can do the same.

You didn't rebute it though. Nowhere in your entire diatribe of technobabbling statements did you refute anything I brought up other than what appeared to be a gigantic middle finger at me and a "No U!!!" statement.

You argue now that you think Thanos is resistant to matter manipulation because he was surviving physical trauma due to concussive, or kinetic forces being applied, which are two completely different damage values, and two completely different means of receiving damage. If what you said was anywhere close to accurate, he'd never have had anything to fear from Storm Breaker, or just about anything else. However, we know this isn't true, as he's had his arm f@cked up by the gauntlet, we've seen Storm breaker pierce his chest and cut off his head, we've seen others harm him, including Tony Stark. We know he's far from invulnerable.

Now, as to your assertion that matter manipulation requires the use of physical force to do it's work, how in the ever loving blue hell can you POSSIBLY assert this? How would you know this? As far as anyone else is aware, it is a MENTAL power Apocalypse uses, not a physical one.

And now, you need to prove that Thanos's atoms are more durable than anyone elses. I do not know how you are supposed to actually prove atomic toughness from a fictional setting, but please, this should be entertaining.

^ Most of those are either magic wielders or matter manipulators themselves.

You need to bring up examples of beings with physical defences only. Adamantium and Cap's shield shouldn't be an issue. They have been shaped and manipulated by science.

I thought:
Originally posted by h1a8
The burden of proof lies on proving it is significantly more durable than manmade or earthly formed materials. Special attributes must be proven or they don't exist.

So Thanos' resistance to matter manip should be proven, or it does not exist. Does not matter what OTHER objects in fiction can or cannot do, the burden of proof is on h1 to prove it for THANOS.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos is not the most powerful being in the universe, especially based off later movies introducing more powerful characters (SW, etc). I never claimed such. But such a claim in a movie gives evidence to Thanos being extremely physically powerful.

https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png

Ni...Muth...Homeslice. . Do you not realize how you are contradicting yourself from sentence to SENTENCE?!!! You say "you haven't claimed as such" when bringing up the quote IS THE PHUCKING CLAIM, and AGAIN, you say it "gives evidence for Thanos's power" when that quote was SPECIFICALLY made because HE HAD THE INFINITY STONES. THE INFINITY STONES MADE HIM THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE. NOT HIS OWN PHYSICAL POWER.

Again, I don't even know if we have any feats with him without the Gauntlet because when he fought the Hulk, he already had the Power Gem, and the Hulk was literally in a fight with a being way stronger than Thanos, i.e. Surtur, without getting scared enough to disappear for the whole film, which leads me to believe that Thanos used the Power Gem to beat up the Hulk as only the force from a planet-destroying substance such as the Power Gem would be enough to scare the Hulk when another planet destroyer, again Surtur, did not.

Obviously this is open to interpretation and I know there are some who will argue that Thanos didn't activate the Power Gem and that he used his own brute strength to beat down the Hulk, although I don't believe that for my reasons stated above. If anyone wants to debate whether Thanos used the IG to beat the Hulk or not, they can do so whenever they please. REGARDLESS, Thanos' strength and durability play ZERO FACTOR here because of Apocalypses' telekinesis.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't see Apoc starting the fight by lifting Thanos into the air and holding him there indefinitely, that's completely out of character. He doesn't need to be stupid to avoid doing that.


He'd more likely begin by defending against Thanos' attacks using telekinesis, blocking blows, sending Thanos flying, and so on. At some point during the fight, he may attempt matter manipulation.

It's amazing how people assume a character is stupid just because they don't act exactly how they would.



Okay, be specific. Describe a typical scenario, other than matter manipulating Thanos, where Apoc wins the fight. Let's start from there.


https://i.ibb.co/212jGKkG/Spagetface.png

Dude, come on . So you're basically saying that instead of instantly using his telekinesis to slam Thanos against a wall and then transmuting him into said wall, which is completely in character and pretty much his signature tactic , he's going to stand there like a bumbling idiot waiting for Thanos to attack him and then use telekinesis to "block his blows". Why would he need to be on the defense when he
A. Has telekinesis which basically means Thanos can't touch him
B. Has teleportation meaning that the moment Thanos launches an attack, he can move out of way effortlessly
C. Has supersonic reflexes that will basically allow him to anticipate Thanos' attack before he has time to implement it.

Lastly, a "typical" scenario without matter manipulation where Apoc wins the fight? Sure. He holds Thanos in place with TK and then shoves multiple metric tons worth of dirt into all of Thanos' orifices until he suffocates. Or he BFRs Thanos into the vacuum of space. Or he uses his TK to lift a gargantuan city-sized amount of landmass from the Earth, telekinetically places Thanos into the crevice, and then slams the landmass into him at Chicxulub Meteor speed. There's many scenarios where Apoc massacres Thanos. Without the matter manipulation

Originally posted by h1a8
Okay, be specific. Describe a typical scenario, other than matter manipulating Thanos, where Apoc wins the fight. Let's start from there.

So nerf Apoc for your argument. Ok.

Insert Apoc instead of Wanda. See how powerless Thanos was?

Z-RMCM0NxaY

Yes

His encounter with Captain Marvel isn't evidence?



Apoc dealt with Quicksilver to the point that he was perceiving him in slow motion. Who has Thanos ever dealt with on that speed level?