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Just got done seeing T3 after watching the "Terminator" last night and Terminator 2 earlier today just to refresh my memory. I like the fact that T3 was a tighter film that didn't take seemingly forever like T2 did, but all that aside, I am going bonkers because....

I AM TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THE TIMELINE! T2 was made in 1991, but in the opening of T2, they don't list a specific date in L.A. like they did in the original "Terminator." Here are the problems with each of the three years I thought of.

a) 1991. If that was true, John would be only 7, and he clearly was older than that in the film.

b) 1994. This one seems to make the most sense. But John would still be only 10, and he seems about 13 in the film.

c) 1997. John's age and other factors seem to point to the film being set in 1997. In fact, the protective Terminator tells John Connor that John sent him back in time to protect him 35 years from now. 1997 + 35 years = that infamous 2029, but the 2029 date is only a presumption...

Problem is, if the movie was set in 1997 and the Judgment Day was supposed to be in 1997, then things weren't set yet. While the protective Terminator drives south in the desert, he tells Sarah Connor that it takes Skynet three years to perfect the defense system. And Sarah tells the psychiatrist the date of Judgment Day is August 29, 1997, not August 29 of this year.

Now T3 has me baffled even more. Sarah Connor dies in 1997, the same year as Judgment Day? How is that possible? And the whole time in T2, she had leukemia?

So what year was T2 set? 1991? 1994? 1997? I am confused.

I think it depends more on the time of T1. It was released in 1984 the second one was 1991 so if the first one was set in 1984(Jon was born then) which would make him 6 in T2. This cant be.

In T2 the terminator does say it takes 3 years for skynet to become self aware (on August 29 1997.) This means the first one must have taken place in 1981, which would make Jon 13 by 1994 that gives skynet 3 years to take control and nuke the world.

I THINK THIS IS RIGHT BUT I COULD BE WRONG

OK if this it true then Sarah Connor dies shortly after August 29 1997 (they tell us she lived just after Judgment day in T3) but when she was diagnosed they said she had 6 months to live. So if she was diagnosed shortly after T2 this gives her 3 years to live until her death after Judgment day.

I think I am right about this but I have a hard time explaining things throw typing hop it helped

Good question. As far as we could tell, T3 takes place now. Remember, judgement day was postponed. The Skynet research was only pushed back because of their raid on Cyberdine in T2.

That's all poetic license so to speak. The only thing I didn't like was the obvious setup for a sequel. I mean, we still have to see Humans win the final war don't we? I just hope if they are planning on one last movie, it takes place in the future after the war.

No, the original Terminator movie was set in 1984 -- that's when it was made and that was the specific date listed very early on in the original Terminator. Frankly, I think all three Terminator movies were set in the year they were made, but that Cameron significantly screwed up with T2 by making John as old as he was.

John in T2 was an annoying, whiny adolescent anyway -- Cameron should've stuck with portraying John as a child to keep the timeline correct and to trim the long movie by keeping the 13-year-old off the screen. Of course, John does provide the valuable part of giving one-lines to the protective Terminator and of enlightening the Terminator by making him maim instead of kill. But I don't think that's enough to offset the timeline screwup, the interminable length of the film and John's obvious shortcomings.

They did indeed diagnose Sarah shortly after T2 and said she had 6 months to live. John Connor states that she dragged it out the three years it took to get over the hump of JD.

To me that suggests JD was 2000/2001 which is inline with traditional assumptions of Armageddon/Apocalypse 'visionaries' et al. Given you ARE working with a human factored element here and that research could surge and lag on the chief programmer's (sorry, I don't remember his name only his "I'm not pant, sure, pant, how much longer, pant-pant I can hold this..." line) ability to recover and reverse engineer bits of the broken chip.

It also makes sense given that John Connor doesn't really look like a teenager but nor is he really over the hump into young adulthood which would make the 1997-2003 stretch somewhat more believeable (19-20 years old).

AIM-120 AMRAAM was promised in 1984, pushed back to 1986 and didn't arrive, in a faulted form, until 1991. Basic engineering 'shove right, promise left' logic.

On a side note, I found the notion of nannites (sp.) controlling civillian automobiles (gear shifter/stick, wheel and pedals) to be non sensical, even assuming that they are a 'part' of the intelligent mimetic derivative T-1000 alloy that T-X uses for primary replicant sheathing. How do they see? How do they transmit back to the T-X? How do they integrate what must be continually varying quantities of foot-pound level pressures upon such spatially separated controls?

From that early in the film it was a long struggle to stay the course as much was downhill.

The T-X simply doesn't cut it using Arnolds mini-mountain-moves slowmo dynamic and thus her 'fixated stalk' seems lacking in the dynamic energy one would expect from a smaller, more advanced, Terminator.

Too many times victims got away, too many times, when she didn't burst-transfer that focus to _cross the gap_ of engagement battlespace. And even when she did run, she lacked the bounding-lope of ungulancy (sp.) that I would expect of a large hunting cat. Instead, they simply closed in on her running frame in normal camera view which of course made the background blur.

While some may argue that this is all relative to '1-2 tonne fighting machines' weight categories, I myself have large problems with that statement as well.

IIRR most online references put Arnie around 400 kilos or approximately 830lbs and even this would _severely_ strain both locomotor servos and suspension (knees etc.) units while flat of crippling the types movement rates and safe navigation in many terrain types (footprint weights and why trucks can't drive on deep sand but tanks can etc.).

Last but not least, both dramatically and for-rating, when T-X blew away that kid in his own foyeur after having shoved him helpless down on the ground, T3 lost a bunch of points and indeed three people (with an youngish adolescent in tow) left from the theater. Comparitively, T-800 was so lacking in lethality that he not only seemed pansy-PC, but outright tactically _stupid_ (the scene at the filling station and the cops outside the mausoleum etc. both were highrisk threat zones that should have been _dealt with_, preemptively).

Other problems abounded (the FX frankly sucked and the absent Termi music leadin was also sorely missed) but in general I had low expectations and so wasn't altogether disappointed. Here's hoping that T4 either won't come or WILL be about a Death Match styled confrontatio between machines and men, to the end.


Saberist.

Terminator 2 takes place in 1994. Arnie was sent back 35 years in time from 2029 which means that it is 1994.

And to think I used to be good at math! Yes, the movie has to be set in 1994. 1994 + 35 years from now = 2029. Also, 1994 + the three years Skynet takes to develop the killer technology = the 1997 Judgment Day. I just got distracted by the fact that he seems older than 10 in the film.

T2 was 1994. Because (along with other good points) when the T1000 first arrives, he looks up John's name in the computer in that cop car. It says Conner was born in 84, and he was ten years old.

Lets go from the start:

The Terminator: all start in 1984 when first terminator arrived to kill Sarah (T-101). She slept with some guy....and then one year later she had a son - John. That year was 1985.

Terminator 2: was in cinemas 1991, but as TOMACCO said was real date 1994 and John was 10 years old. That all make sense. There was another terminator send back T-1000. T-101 was send back to protect John because he (John) send it. That is quite strange....if T-1000 kill John Jugment day will come in 1997, but he failed. T-101 destroyed Cyberdyne and that mean all that (jugment day) is appear to be few years later. Than Sarah died in 1997.

Terminator 3: in cinemas 2003...How old is now John? Which date is?

I think the setting for t3 was 2003, but i could be wrong

Ok I just thought of something, during the movie T3, they were at the animal hosptial. OK the chick (i cant remember her name i know its johns future's wife) goes your john conner, you were at that one dudes (again i cant remember the name) basement. Anyway she goes one day in middle school you just disappeared, and I think she said when they were in 8th grade, if thats true there is no way john can be 10 in t2. Did anyone catch that too? Or did she say 6th grade?

thats a good point if she did say 8th grade then somthing is deffinalty wrong. Agggg i cant remeber i need to go see the the movie for a furth time i guess

Is there again problem with TIMELINE?...god damned...if he is in 8th grade, he is hm...how old he must be in 8th grade? If he was 10yo in 1994 he must be in 2003...19years old.

But if he wish to be a leader of human resistance, he must be NOW IN ARMY!

T1 was stated in the film as taking place in may 1984, nine months later, but perhaps still in 1984 after 7 months.. a premature birth of john, but more likely, john was born january 1985 and should be 10 years old in t2 so t2 should be in 1995. Maybe 3 years before judgement day in 1997 skynet was first developed. It is likely that skynet became aware later in the day that it was activeed. It was activated when it was perfected and maybe since initial research (dyson) it took 3 years until activation (due to virus).So i'm sure camerson left out the date in t2 deliberately, knowing there could be timeline problems.. i mean lets be fair.. in the first film they stated the final battle would be fought in our present..tonight.. well, that didn't happen either. We have to assume that skynet didn't know that the t-101 would not fail and that that the humans would send someone later and they didn't know thwy would be developing a new t-1000 either, so we may have to to some assumptions that this timeline didn't exist until now. It's deep, but whwn i have time i'lll tell why. So i'd say john is 10 but let's face it, being confronted by knwoing he is the future of human kind, it is likely that being but into foster homes after learning survival skillas and weapons use that john had to mature and grow up quickly.....hence more mature(in certain ways) than he should be. Also, look @ the making of t12, you see edward furlong asks like a 10 yaer old in ral life,l but a little more duty driven in the film. also, a chip from the old block, sara, who is destined to be spunky. So in t3 john is 19-22.

Lets start with little school...T2 was in 1994 and John Connor was 10 yo.OK T-101 said in 1997 mascines will become self-aware.OK. But maschine will become self-aware after 3 years of first terminator will be created by Cyberdyne. That mean in 1994 in T2 they must have first terminator or T-101 complete.OK.

But do you know what confused me?

In T2 happening in 1994 when Dyson and John arrived in vault in Cyberdyne where they developed T-101 they had just a chip and arm of first terminator. They should have the whole terminator whaiting for mass production.

Isn't that strange?

OK I JUST READ THAT JOHN CONNOR IS IN MOVIE 22 YEARS OLD!!!...that mean movie is happening in year 2007...

THE SIMPLE WAY 2 PUT IT IS THAT THEY MADE A MISTAKE. that's all there is 2 it. just forget about JOHN CONNER'S age, they screwed it up

OK...no problem...but the terminator is all about him, about his protection...about leader of human resistance.

P.S.: How can I just forget about him?

Hit yourself on the head with something big and heavy.

Like the new harry potter book.

yeah james cameron in all his attention to detail made a couple of mistakes. SOme had to be done to make this movie independent form the first and it was made more noticable because john was so mature and because the computer screen in the beginning of the film stated his age. this is why there is not date @ the start of t2 i think to allow some slck in this area. This is also why there is no date listed in t3. The question that i wanted answered in why the "the future is not set" statement, which finished in by kyle reese saying. "that was all". Yet in t2 when he was reading the message" it goe like this' the future is not set..there is no fate but what we make for ourselves' I was expecting the actual message and my ear was looking for it. When i heard the message in T2, i was like what is this abrideged crap? Anyways only to find out later that that was an omitted message from the first and they changed it and improved it. It should have been carried through to t2 and paraphrased by the terminator and john to say somehthing along the same lines as we being responsible for our ouwn fate, our destiny and we me must survive, or john wil never exist.. i think they did that cause john existed already, but they should have addressed that and concentrated on the message that john must exist for a reason and that the future is not set. Anyways t I hope t4 is better.

In T3 is John 22yo, that mean movie is happening in 2007... what do you think about that?

Actually T3 is set in 2004.

At the start of the film after Arnie goes through the strip club. He gets in the car and a watch falls down. He checks the date and it says 'ACCURATE' at the top of the screen and says the date is:

24.07.2004

I have checked that frame again and again and this is the date it says.
So Judgement day must have occured on 25th or 26th July 2004.



Dodgycrap

You know, maybe John was ten in T2, AND in 8th grade. I mean maybe he was bumped up because he was so smart. HE would have to be to be a 'great military leader'. Thats right, I fixed the problem. I belive we call that CHECK and MATE!

DEFINITIVE TIMELINE:
1984-Reese arrives, T-101 arrives, John Connor is concieved
1985-1994 - Sara raise John, attempts to destroy computer factory,
Sara is sent to institution, John moves in with foster parents,
begins new school, and is moved from 6th to 8th grade were
he 'falls in with the wrong crowd', macks on that Kate chick
1994- T-101 and T-1000 arrive, sarah and John take off after the events
T2:JD, Sarah is diagnosed with Luchemia.
1997- August 27 comes and goes, Sarah dies shortly later.
1997-2004- John hits the road, never settling in one place for long, only
oddjobs to get by, Skynet catches up to were it should have
been
2004-The events of T3
July24, 2004 - Judgment Day finally happens, resestance begans
2005-2029-John and Kate have children and become war heros, John
and becomes friends with Kyle Reese, sends him back in time
reprograms a T-101 and sends it back to protect himself in
past from the T-1000, outdated T-101 kills John, is captured
and reprogramed by Kate and sent back in time.

everything sound good to me

basically accurate but some stuff it off.

good summary

yeah soms stuff is innacurate but overall it's good

This cannot be correct. In T3. John Connor makes specific references to T2 when "he was 13 years old. " Indisputable.

If he was born in 84 (the year cannot be argued as 1984 is referenced numerous times. Arnie is wanted in T2 for the attack on the police station in 1984) this would make T2 set in 97.

If SC is then diagnosed with Leukaemia, why would she need to hang on for 3 years to make sure the events of 97 did not happen ? (Unless of course, we are to assume that she was diagnosed in 94)

It's a major error. To suggest that JC was only 7 or 10 yrs old in T2 does not rectify the error becasue of the 13 yr old references in T3.

It hurts my brain to think about it any more.

i think their destroying the original skynet in t2 may have pushed the d-day forward??????????????

I saw an interview with James Cameron stating that
" Although T 2 doesn't actually take place 12 years (our time) later the characters are, regardless 12 years older"

Doesn't help the arguement much but i thought i would through in my 2 cents anyway.....

Talk about serious brain scrambling. Whichever way you look at it Judgement day was inevitable, and would HAVE to happen regardless or you end up with another paradox. ie No Judgement day, - no John connor as only he can send his own father back in time to conceive him.

Man with all the age working out and all, i'm starting to get a headache. Just saw t3 for the first time, and thought it was ok but without the explosive impact that t2 had. James cameron always adds a bit of emotion in his films (T1 - love scene and kyles death. T2, arnies lowering into molten steel), this was seriously lacking in t3. and for me the movie was a little hasty. You never know theey always release a special edition with extended footage and that may make up for it. However in all i was a bit disappointed.

I watched Terminator again fro the first time in a while.

It get's even better.

The Terminator and Kyle go may in May 1984 (Kyle asks a bum and the date is on Sarah Connor's time card at the diner she works in)

So, the earliest John Connor could have been born is February 1985.

Now if he was 13 in T2 (as stated in T3), that would have been 1998, some months after judgement day.

Even if Judgement day was postponed, it would still have meant that the psychiatric scenes were meaningless because they date Sarah Connor dreaded had already passed....

John Connor was born sometime in 1985, I can't remember exactly what month. If you watch T2, when the T1000 makes his entrance and gets in the cop car he does a search for him. The DOB appears as well as his address and juvenile records.

Terminator 1 definitely happened in 1984; there were several references to this throughout the movie. I suppose the most obvious would be when it boldly displays "LOS ANGELES 1984" at the bottom of the screen in one of the intro scenes.

So in conclusion, Jonathan Mostow is an idiot who probably watched T2 while he was getting trashed or something. John Connor did NOT have a T1000 or any terminator go after him when he was 13.

Also, remember when Arnold says, "In three years, Miles Dyson will...Skynet...something something?" If Judgement Day is August 29, 1997, three years previous to that would make T2 1994.

But how can this be if John Connor is supposed to be 10 and he was born in 1985? My best estimate is that he's a machine, so in a sense he was rounding up. Maybe John was born in the earlier months of 1985, and since JD occurs in the latter half of 1997 the machine acted as a calculator or something.

Finally, I don't see why people would base their judgements about John Connor's age just according to how he "looks." He's a kid, I'm sure he could pass for 10. You think Freddie Prinze Jr. passes for a high schooler in any of his teen movies? Or any of the American Pie people? They're all in their 20s as well. Plus, when you're at a young age like that, your looks tend to fluctuate a lot. One kid might be 10 and look 8, another might be 10 and look 13. And for the record, Edward Furlong was 12 when he played the role.

This couldn't have happened as sarah conner died in 1997 (according to the coffin in T3.

The whole Terminator timeline is screwed, i think t2 happened in 1995 but acording to t3 that would be impossible.

look, cameron is the 1 who screwed up john connor's date. not mostow,, he had 2 make john connor 13 so that he could start with the connor/ brewster making out in 8th grade. a 10 year older in 8th grade and making out seems impossible. get it? cameron started the problem, mostow had 2 deal with it. and someone told me of this, this is very interesting, that when in t2, they blew up cyberdyne, everything was pushed forward 3 yearz. making judgement day 2032, instead of 2029, and joh connor 13 instead of 10. this is interesting, but it is one of these 2 which i have told u

How did Sarah conner get pregnant? i mean if Kyle reese is johns dad thats an IMPOSSIBILITY, because Kyle is from the future. There would have to be atleast one timeline where sarah got pregnant from someone else. and if she did and kyle did come back and she got pregnant with him that would change who john connor is, his character traits would be different thus being a different person by sarah connor getting pregnant by Kyle reese, not even the comics cover this blunder

yeah well atleast cameron didnt F*UCK up and make a horrid un original movie

cameron never said john was supposed to be older he never screwed anything up, he just chose an older actor to play a 10 year old because little kids cant act, its called artistic freedom

maybe the director should have just written a more plausable script

The ONLY reason there is confusion here is because in T3 they said John was 13 in T2 when T2 itself clearly says he is ten. It is one simple error that has cocked everything up but CLEARLY the error is Mostow's- any changes he makes to continuity are mistakes by HIM, not by Cameron who set it in the first place!

mostow changed everything that made the previous two great, everything in T3 seemed to shadow everything in T2

most people think differently i think mostow did a good job following the legacy of t2. he also knew that he wouldn't b able 2 match the movie. he admitted himself. just watch it for fun and dont take it seriously

yeah your right, im glad it makes people happy but it doesnt do anything for me, and even makes me upset at times cuz it wasnt even fun for me to watch, movies like terminator i expect alot from

2bad, feel bad for urself, coz most of the people enjoyed it

Proof please..
You aren`t most people, don`t just blindly assume everyone thinks they way you do.

this is by far the smallest terminator forum. go to terminator3.com

terminator-3.co.uk go 2 other non terminator forums and c it for urself

ambur just join thearnoldfans.com

even non terminator forums, every1 will say they like it

Alic88, neither of those sites have forums. And at no other board do I see the groundswell of support for T3 you`re suggesting.

Most reviews I`ve read do notice the major changes to the series and the problems it has. True a lot of people find it an enjoyable enough popcorn movie, but for a Terminator film I dont think that`s enough.

That's exactly the point: NON-terminator fans will enjoy it because they like the special effects and one-liners and are UNFAMILIAR with the series in the way that die-hard fans are. They don't know just how much was involved in the Terminator series, so of course they'll just take any eye candy flying their way.

well thats what u think banana boy.

Yes, that is indeed what I think. That's why I made a post about it. Is that all you can come up with? Why don't you share some valid points about the movie like you're supposed to do within the thread?

u have every right for ur opinion. first of all, i dont like it when u say NON-TERMINATOR FANS LIKE T3, that is not true.i am a true die hard terminator franchise fan and u dont know how much i am still obsessed about the first 2 movies so much. i have got everything, just because i think that t3 is a good movie doesn't make me a non-terminator fan. to some extent i even agree with u, it doesn't fit in the terminator way but i liked it, it is my fav movie after the first2

hey! banana peel as far as valid points goi have given them many timesand made my point clear that those who think positvey and practically about the movie(b4 watching must have understood that wont b better than t2.secondly those who will stop comparing it with T2 would like it and ofcourse the colections speak 4 the movie but i m atleat better than those who just keep repeatin the same thing again and again.

hey! banana peel as far as valid points goi have given them many timesand made my point clear that those who think positvey and practically about the movie(b4 watching must have understood that wont b better than t2).secondly those who will stop comparing it with T2 would like it and ofcourse the collections speak 4 the movie but i m atleast better than those who just keep repeatin the same thing again and again.

I really hope you become a "Grammar Buff", too, because I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say.

I don't see any valid points you've made, either. Telling people who are die hard fans to not compare it to T2 is about the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Please, get educated. Write comprehensively and coherently.

And it's bad banana to you, not banana boy or banana peel.

banana peel as far as education goes yeah i just made some mistakes. just tell me how many languages do u know ?and tell u what if u r educated enough to be on the computer learn some modern day techniques(stop remaining backward) .what i m talkin bout is that on the net u dont have to test ur english and use writng skills. u have 2 b brief banana and use some shortcut methods. u just said u didnt understand what i was writin and then u said i didnt make any valid points .i dont understand what u r talking about. go and decide what u have write first and then do it .what do u say BANANA PEEL!

I say you're an ignorant little dick.

How many languages do I know? Please. You don't even know me. I am a native born Chinese who is fluent in Mandarin, Spanish, and CORRECT English. What are you going to say now, b*tch?

Also, your little "shortcuts" are nothing but illegible jumble that only shows your incompentency. It's called ABBREVIATION, dickwad, and it's supposed to help you read faster, not slower.

For ex, m. buff needs 2 stfu.

Finally, please tell me exactly what the hell "remaining backwards" is supposed to mean? Before you try to argue with someone, please, please go learn some English first. You're embarassing yourself for the whole internet to see.

And btw, in relevance to the forums, T3 is an okay movie by itself, but compared with the gravity of the franchise it blows. Got it? Some people are just retarded. It's ok, I'm sure there's help for you out there.

u 2 need to stop it, v need some peace here.

hey buddy as far languages go u just know 4 . i know 3 indian languages, french, german and ofcourse english too.u r busy pointin out grammar mistakes and try 2 embarass other people, that shows that people make fun of ur english and make u face regular embarassments that is why u try 2 give ur frustration some relief and other than that i have been writin here since a long time and no one else has complemented on my english other than u. and finally the word ***** that u used shows how much educated u r. that just shows that u r a cheap brat.please tell ur parents to teach u some basic manners and secondly the word ***** is used for females and ofcourse i have never complemented on me being male or female. by remaning backward i meant that the world has already moved 2 a modern era but still u need to learn some modern day techniques .this shows that u dont know how to read english. man ur condition is pitiable.u better start readin some newspapers and story books and novels.u r the worst guy i have ever come through ,earlier i used 2 think it was rages but now i have come to understand that he is much much better than u coz atleast he has some manners and knows how to read too.now listen 2 what i say , u r a big fat jumbo sized dick which can burst any moment. now if u can understand what i m writin - jumbo sized dick is worse than a little dick.and did u read what alic said? - we need some peace here so just shut up!

You're hilarious, stop it. I even underestimated your stupidity and inability to read. Stop trying to assume things about someone you have NEVER met. Do I give a flying you-know-what about how many Indian languages you speak? Was I ever trying to compare the quantity of that? Is it relevant to the Terminator movie franchise in the least?

If not, you are officially stupid. If you continually depend on the lack of knowledge and that you can speak "3 indian languages, french, german and ofcourse english too" then you've got far greater issues than just ignorance.

I never made fun of anyone's grammar, just yours. Why? Because your b*tch ass called me out. Yeah, that's what I called you. English is a great, diverse language, isn't it? Too bad you don't know it.

Also, nobody freaking makes fun of my mistakes because I am an official English and Literature major. Dumbass, you think I got to this point by f*cking up like you?

Please explain to me what the hell language you're speaking when you say...

"complemented on my english"... -- Did you mean comment? And you spelled COMPLIMENT wrong. There is such a thing as a dictionary. Use it wisely.

"by remaning backward"... -- You still fail to understand that this is NOT the "modern era" of language that you speak so highly of. It's just wrong language.

"man ur condition is pitiable"... -- I believe you were trying to use the word most closely related to your own condition: PITIFUL. God, you define the word. No need for a dictionary on this one.

"u r the worst guy i have ever come through"...-- I don't even know what to say about this one.

Don't ever try to tell me I don't know language or I can't read. I somehow managed to interpret your bull****, didn't I?

Jumbo sized dick versus small dick -- hilarious. So you'd rather have a small penis and I have a big one? Probably not too far from the truth. When was the last time you got some? Your left or right hand don't count, either.

And dildo-face, as for reading magazines and newspapers and books? I've been reading since I could see. I'm going to be writing them pretty soon, so I'll be sure to include a little chapter to ignorant people like you who try to start beef over the internet without even understanding the basic concept of anything at all in the world. Not to just you, you understand, because you're not that special to me. Just your type.

Please learn to calm down and not be discouraged because you have a small pecker. I'm sure your mom doesn't complain that much.

oh plz! for heavenz sake STOP IT U2. please, v r here 2 talk bout the best triology of all times. the terminator, u need 2 know that

wait alic first let me shut him up for some time. hey banana the truth here is that u and me have made some mistakes and brother u cant deny that. u pointed my mistakes and called me uneducated and then i pointed ur mistakes and call u uneducated . listen brother everybody can make mistakes but that doesnt mean that that person is uneducated.skule makes mistakes, alic makes mistakes, rages does, i do ,u do(and u cant deny that fact).no one is perfect. u called me uneducated bcoz i made some mistakes but even i pointed some of ur mistakes but that doesnt mean that u r uneducated.b4 saying anything like that 2 anyone just think that even u r not perfect in everything.u live in usa , u must b speakin english all the time thats why u r fluent but still u make mistakes then why cant i?coz i dont speak english all the time.i have given u one advice now take another learn to b a bit more polite and try less 2 use those cheap words.now another thing - i made a mistake by calling u banana boy but then in return u called me uneducated (thats really much more rude)and then u suddenly started talking bout my english, i dont know why u r so conscious about others english and i dont even want 2 know.as far as my mom goes she loves me and not my pecker coz she doesnt have a look on it every morning like mothers of some other people do.(now again u ahve no right 2 get personal with someone and his mother ok. take another advice dont talk about others personal things and especially family members coz if u say this 2 someone face to face u cant even imagine what kind of bashing u would have to face.now i have had enough of this and now please talk bout the terminator movies.

I can take apologies. Just don't call me out again.

Nothing personal about you or your mom. American culture has us so desensitized that everybody cracks on each other's moms.

i give up

That was a truce post, alic88.

I damn well hope this sort of talk does NOT happen again, for sure.

u dont need 2 give up now alic coz its over.

ahh phew the bickering stopped!!

thank u

Just so we`re back on topic again, I had a thought about the whole different timelines thing.

It was suggested that T1 is at the start of the second timeline (where John is fathered by Reese instead of some other guy)
It just occured to me that the events of T1 cant be the ones that change who John`s father is.
John gives Reese the picture of Sarah in the knowledge he will be John`s father. This means that in the timeline Reese came from he is John`s father as well, and the timeloop has probably went around quite a few times since the original change was made.

Sorry for rambling, I just had that thought and had to get rid of it somewhere.

you all need to shut the fu.....oh i'm just kidding! Yeah i think either the timeline looped twice before or it is not clear why he gave kyle the photo. Frankly It seems to me he gave it to him, because he was the most qualified soldier other than john to protect sarah. And in hearing about her bravery, the nravery of her son, and never having a woman in his life other than another soldeir and neve seeing a feminine woman, sexy and clean as sarah looked in that photo made him fall in love with her. See he fell in love due to john an the photo, not the other way around. So initially or even in t1, john gave it to him, in order to recognize her in the mission that he mus embark upon. And t3 is shitty as a sequel to the franchsie.

What are the chances that Sarah has an identical picture without think in Reese, and the future??

that's what i meant when i said that it's mor likely that it was the third go around..the photo may not have existed or she might have been dressed different or photo taken at alater time. assuming the same photo, it could have been that photo even if he had another father, but for different reasons. I think it was the second ot third go around.

u all are hurting my brain..t4 will address the time travel part of the movie, as i had read somwehere!

ok

OK OK, the discussion may be over, but I have new theories. What do you think?

DEFINITIVE TIMELINE(s):

1984
T-101 and Reese arrive (from first timeline: first built t-101 in late 1994,
three years before JD on 29th August 1997*, john is military leader and reese's friend in 2029); T-101 didn't kill Sarah so John can be born and no change in timeline (because of that the whole picture part is right too ... and Reese can have Sarah's picture in the future, which Sarah got in the end of T1 from that boy -- but after the timeline-change in 1994 that possible future is gone I guess ... read below at 1994)
(except the fact that Reese never can be John's father, Reese can't know John in the future and then f*** Sarah in the past *lol* ... that's a logical error; possible solution: Sarah already was pregnant with the "real John" and didn't know it, maybe a little accident *lol* later she thought "it was" Reese and told John; but wait, Reese also believed it .. was he dumb? whatever .. )

1994
T-1000 arrives and gets destroyed (wanted, but did'nt changed timeline)
T101 arrives, destroys Cyberdyne and changes the timeline (no Judgement Day on 29th August 1997 anymore -> delayed JD, John still leader in 2029, but different timeline and events)
OK, and John is 10 I would say, anything else is weird and destroys everything *lol*

1997
no JD on August 27. after recognizing this Sarah died shortly after this because of her Luchemia

2004
T-X & T-101 arrives and both gets destroyed. (and probably changed the timeline, although the T-X didn't kill John, but without both terminators he wouldn't survive the JD this way and would'nt meet his future wife like this)
so after the delayed Judgement Day a new timeline begins - without sending back any terminators and probably without knowing Reese, BUT John still as the leader together with his wife.


*

Gordo

Whew.... all this time travel talk makes me queezy. I was thinking though, instead of thinking of it as different timeline's, why not think of it all as one big timeline, and all the events occur as a consenquence of changing the past. ie, with Reese, he is John's dad, end of story. John was born cos he went back in time and .... ill stop there. And hence John was born, leads the resistance, blah blah blah.. but if Reese hadnt been sent back by John, John would cease to exist. Think about it... unless the terminator actually went back in time and John confronted it, John wudnt be the fearless leader he became. I dunno, you'll either see what im saying or be completely lost.

Yeah, also an interesting point. But the idea of "one big timeline" makes me getiing queezy. *lol*

Doesn't they say in T2, that the future isn't set, there is no fate, you can make your own future .. blah blah? And then Sarah decoides to do this?

I would say changing the future is equal to changing the timeline. well, maybe I'm too queezes now.

*migrane headache*

lol

look for me the bottom line is

t1: 1984( 1985 john is born)
t2: 1995(john is 10)
BUT: b coz of what happened in t2 with the cyberdyne blowup everything was pushed forward 3 years, like humanz would win in 2032 instead of 2029, and john connor would b 13 in t2
t3 events: july24-25, 2004, i saw it very carefully

Simply mostow messed up when he added that line to the movie is the issue.

I can solve all these problems in one go, listen.

In T1, Kyle (Michael Biehn) explains to just about everybody that in the future, SKYNET's Defence grid had been smashed, the war had been won. Killing John Connor then would have made no difference. So they sent Arnie back to kill his mother, Sarah Connor. With me? Good.

So the humans sent Kyle back to protect her. Yes? And he says the Time Displacement machine was destroyed straight after he went so no one could follow - 'it's just him and me'. So in the future, the moment Kyle left for 1984, SKYNET was no more, the war was won and there could be no more time travel because they'd destroyed the machine to do it.

Now then, by protecting Sarah Connor (we're still in the first film) and destroying Arnie, Kyle's mission was a success. Judgement day would still have to follow, nothing had changed there, the war would be fought in the future between the Robots and mankind and WON by mankind.

HOW THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE T2 AND T3 ON THOSE GROUNDS

The first film has been ignored by directors just so they could cash in with bonanza special effects. The whole storyline is full of discrepencies and botch ups that i felt spoilt viewing. I'm a big Michael Biehn fan and was gutted to find his scenes out of T2 on the cutting room floor, fit only to be shown too late in the Special Edition. T3 is simply cashing in again on an already saturated franchise.

Does Kyle know that the war is over.

Nope.

does he know for sure what happened after he went through-

Nope.

That means there's still plenty of possibilities of what could happen.

And T2 and T3 just bring the storyline to inevitable points that eventually had to be reached. T3 more than T2 really. But everything shown iun the films needed to be covered.

i learned most of wut im gunna say from the dawn of fate game.

in order for reese to get to the time displacement machine he had to go to base norad skynets defense grid deep in the chayanne mts. they succesfully did so and destroyed the base. that doesnt mean that skynet was Completly destroyed. skynet wud survive and rebuild. i asume skynet had more time machines. i hear wut voice of logic is sayin but t2 was not made as a cheap action film. for me it is one of the greatest movies of all time and arguably 1 of the few films that not only can live up to but surpass the first film. and its crazy to disagree

Actually, voice of logic made a really good point there, the story was in fact technically over. Yet T2 was so well made, we could ignore that fact and enjoy it. It did surpass the original. However, now that T3 came out, its apparent that hollywood is saturating the idea for some easy money, T3 was by no means awful, but id have preferred it just being one and two.

Heres how I got it figured, maybe I missed some things though...
I've only got the VHS full screen versions of T1-3, so don't catch all the details of DVD or wide-screen versions, but tried to ID where I got the info from in every case possible...

T1- 1984 Present Day according to the opening scene Time Stamp... Thursday, May 12, according to the cop who Kyle Reese encounters before breaking into the store to steal guns and more clothes...
'What day is it? The date?'
"Thursday... May 12..."
"What year?!?" no response because sirens sound, scaring Reese into the store.

T1 spans only about 3 days, 4 nights, so its still May 1984 at the end.

T2, I never did see a date printed anywhere, including on the police car computer when the T-1000 is tracking down John. Saw him find John's address and birthdate (Feb 28, 1985), and the stupid AGE:10 thing, which is where I would say the error was made. I would say T2 was set in 1997, so yeah, Sarah would have already been diagnosed with Lukemia by then, if they hadn't only just invented that for T3, and yeah she would have been fighting just to survive the last 3 years since being diagnosed in 1994, sure sure... except, I also would believe that the whole lukemia thing was another trick to fool Skynet into thinking Sarah was also 'off the grid' and that John was weakened, and took himself off the grid, and therefore no longer a threat to Skynet and the histiry of things to come... I think Sarah and John were happily living life in Baja (as they were 'living in Baja when she was diagnosed' according to John in T3) when Sarah read something on the new advances at Cyberdine, which got her going... so she and John packed up and returned to the LA area, and she attacked the cyberdine computer research facility, to blow it up, but got caught and sent to Pescadero state hospital... What about at the hospital sessions with Silberman, where SArah mentions the exact date of Judgement Day, and talks about it in the future tense? you may ask...

'We all have dreams Sarah, and sometimes dreams can seem quite real..'

'Well on August 29, 1997 it's going to seem pretty ****ing real to you too! Anyone not wearing 1-million sunblock is going to have a real bad day! get it?!'

Remember, this is a videotaped session, reviewed by Silberman and Sarah at her current review, to discuss and decide if she has shown improvement... apparently, according to Silberman's statements, they do the reviews about every 6 months or so, so possibly the session they are watching was from 6 months or more ago, maybe before August 29, 1996... so Sarah didn't just say '...on August 29th it will seem pretty real...' she added the year, 1997 to the date... see??

so, set T2 in 1997, possibly late 1996, then the only flaws are when the T-800 is explaining the history of things to come, when he says Dyson discovers things and gets skynet going in a few months, then in 3 years skynet becomes self-aware, etc etc... you could say that T-800 is talking in future tense about things that are current news, because he doesn't realize it, and that judgement day is really only a few months off at the time he's explaining all that, so it COULD be 1997 at that time, making John 12 or 13 or so, which appears more accurate... right? T2 spans only about 2 days and 3 nights, so still 1997 at the end...

which sets T3 in 2007, 'a decade has passed', '10 years ago' various references in T3 state that it's been 10 years since Judgement Day was postponed... John's 22 or 23 now, which appears accurate still too, and T3 also states somewhere that John was 13 at the time of T2, so it's still accurate... I dont have it written if it lists Sarah Connors death date on her marker, but its not really important I dont think... probably sometime after August 29, 1997 though because it's stated that she wanted to be certain Judgement Day didn't happen on that day, so she 'fought the lukemia'/stayed 'on the grid' at least that long, before dying/disappearing...

T3, I don't know if anyone noticed or if it's been discussed in any other forum, but the whole movie appears to take place over the course of 1 night and 1 day... whereas the other 2 movies spanned at least 2 or 3 days and nights, which adds to the explanation of why things seem to move so fast, aside from the obvious non-stop wall to wall action and chases... there's no extra scenes of exposition and resting and recovering, no hot steamy sex between John and Katherine one night while they hide out in a cheap roadside motel, because they never spend another night together after meeting each other that first night, 10 years after sharing their first kiss, until they get stuck in Crystal Peak together at 6:18pm the following afternoon!! The whole movie covers just 1 day! T3 should have been called Judgement Day, since that's the only day that was covered in the course of the movie!!

any way, I've only seen T3 about 4 or 5 times, and like I said, only on VHS full screen so maybe I missed some things, but I think it covers all the various timeline loopholes, plot holes, and other holes y'all have come up with... I'm sure there's a simpler explanation, like Director C is God and Director M sucks ass or something, but c'mon, let's not go there again, huh? enjoy the friggin' movies for what they are, and stop trashing them for such little things as 'the plane's call letters were different when it was in the air than they were when it was in the hangar, so the movie sucks, Mostow's a jerk, Stahl's a wuss, Arnold's an old fart, Daines needs to get a so-called life, and they need to stop making Terminator movies if all they do is make them stupid!'


Sorry if I went off on a tangent or a rant... I haven't posted to any boards in awhile, so I have lots of pent up 'postings' in me...

wanna read my T4/T5 idea?? maybe some other post...

wow i m glad v've got new people on this board. slickrick u sound like a more series t fan. not like me, coz i sumtimes dont wanna go 2 details lol

ya i jus wanna say welcome newbies, and slick rick ur explenation does make sense. i always wondered why the never gave a date in t2, but thatas because it PROBLY didnt take place in 92,92 more like 97. good explenation.

My questions about the time-line are more generally related to what is canon vs what is all-known, etc... I have only seen the theatrical releases, and even then only the VHS versions, as well as the SE T2, so my T4 is based around the 3 movies, and does not include much about anything not mentioned in the films... I have read things on this board, and some of the links to other fan-sites which have inspired some additions and extra bits of info on the Ts and H/Ks and Resistance and the history of things to come etc etc... but mostly my crap is still my crap, not connected to the whole Ultimate Terminator Universe as fleshed out in the novelizations and extended universe crap...

so, my questions about the time-line are: does anyone have a simple basic a,b,c... time-line of EVERYTHING or at least LOTS of the stuff from the novels as they relate to the films, or is there such a thing now that T3 has come out and changed some of that past/history? I'm sure dozens of T-thread posters have their own stories and ideas and what not, probably mostly better than the crap I have included in my idea, maybe my stuff is obvious and cliched compared to the 'real deal' stuff that links all movies to novels to everything... but that's what I would like to improve in my story, so I am looking for places to start gaining more insight into the stuff that's not on film... if that stuff is really relevant to the Terminator franchise, if any/all of it is considered canon, or if I should just keep rambling on with my own thoughts with no regard to what has already been established in the 'real' universe, in the 'real' novels out there??

any help, people? muchas gracias!

Okay. This is only my second post here so bear with me, but, I THINK I might have half an idea how the Terminator timeline could just fit into the dates we have.

1984: (May) Date taken from T1 various sources.

The first T-800 is sent back along with Kyle Reese. Once in '84, Reese assumes that the place is destroyed in the future, but he has no way to be sure about this, so it's entirely plausible it wasn't. Whilst in '84 Reese succeeds in his mission, the T-800 fails his, and Sarah Connor becomes pregnant with John. Because the T-800 failed, the future remains as it was BEFORE Reese went back in time.

1985: (Feb) Date taken from the T-1000's police car computer

John Connor is born

1995: (Mar) Date conjecture, but early '95, after John turns 10 at the end of Feb (It is just plausible that John is ten)

The events of T2: In the future AFTER Reese and T-800 go to '84, the future has not changed, and so Skynet knows Connor wasn't aborted, so they try again, using the equipment Reese THOUGHT (but didn't know for sure) had been destroyed. This time they send T-1000 to March 1995, and the resistance are able to send a reprogrammed T-800 to the same time. Now during the movie T-800 says that '35 years from now' he was sent back in time. From 1995, that makes his time travel date 2030. Again, this is plausible. There's nothing to say Skynet didn't wait a while before sending the T-1000. In fact, the months between Reese's time travel (2029) and the T-1000's travel (2030) would give Skynet time to develop the T-1000 and the resistance time to capture and reprogram a T-800.

1995 (Late) Date Conjecture

Sarah contracts lukaemia. Again, plausible. I would say it was in part due to all the physical and mental stress her body had gone through since she met Reese.

1997: (Aug 29) The date that is supposedly Judgement Day comes and goes. Nothing happens, and later that year Sarah dies, having hung on long enough to see for herself nothing happens. Both Sarah and John believe Judgement day didn't happen due to Cyberdine being destroyed but this is only partially true. After Cyberdine was destroyed, CRS got the data (somehow) and picked up where Dyson left off, under Gen. Brewster. But due to the delay, it takes them longer than Dyson to develop Skynet. They have it ready and sort of online (where it pretends to be a virus) by July 2004, which is when the 'postponed' Judgement Day will happen.

John 'hit the road' the day after Sarah dies. Okay, he's only 12 but is resourceful. I would suspect he made his way to Sarah's Mexican friends and lived off the grid with them until he was older when he returned to America. He had no idea that the Mexicans cremated Sarah because this happened during the time he was travelling to them.

2004: (July) Date taken from T-850's scanning of the watch he finds.

John is 19. Alright, he looks older, but it is just about plausible. The events of T3, with a couple of errors that I'll have to put down to Johnathan Mostow's newness to the series.

Skynet, having been developed by CRS after they got a hold of Dyson's work, is almost online and masquerading as a virus in order for the humans to activate it fully. In the future (now 2032) John is terminated by a T-800. Skynet has developed the TX and the resistance have captured John's killer T-800 and Kate has it upgraded to a T-850 and reprogrammed. Both T-850 and TX are sent back in time to 2004 to kill/protect John and Kate, who are destined to meet.

The TX fails, the T-850 'wins' and John and Kate survive the 'new' late Judgement Day. In 25 years (2029) John (then in his mid 40's) sends Kyle Reese back to '84 to protect his mother and the whole storyline starts over.

Whew! I'm off for a lie down now.

It sounds about right to me, bigp, but no one seemed to catch the goof-up in T1. When Reece holds up that cop in the beginning, and asks him what the date is, he replies: "Thursday, the 12th of May."

This is incorrect. May 12 was on Saturday. For the story's sake, the cop either lied or blundered. We cannot take what he said as truth, though because it can be proven as incorrect. But we do know that the year is 1984. The story could have taken place at any time during this year. For all we know, it could have happened in early January, thus making John born in October 1984 or before.

No one also seems bothered by the whole time-travel concept, or the cybornetiuc organism concept, or the father of the future being conceived by a man from the future... a simple matter of movie universe days and dates not matching reality-based days and dates seems trivial, all other things considered...

donchya think?? kinda picky, I think...

any way, if we assume that in the alternate universe of the Terminator series, that May 12, 1984 was actually on a Thursday, then John would still have been born 36 weeks later, or in February 1985...

Im more interested in years of things, and maybe months... but not necessarily exact dates and days of the week such things occur... sure, I get picky about some things, but not THAT picky!!

I think that since T3 has muddied the waters so badly it may be impossible to get a definitive timeline of events.
If you take the first two together, you can flesh out a timeline that apart from a few niggles regarding dates is pretty clear. But after T2 wraps it all up, T3 forces changes (not for the better either) that are hard to explain.

Like how the Skynet program could have continued in any form when ALL information was destroyed. Dyson was project manager and would have known just what information to destroy. Also Cyberdyne didnt have anything to do with the military yet, so the CRS business and the Air Force General Brewster character just don`t fit.

Or the chronology of events in the future. A pair of Teminators sent by Skynet at the same time before it`s destruction, then a human and another reprogrammed Terminator sent soon after is tidy and believable. Working out how yet another TWO Terminators are sent back during these events is next to impossinble.
They couldnt be sent back before Reese or `Uncle Bob` from T2, because John sends both personally and he is supposed to be dead at the hands of the T-850.
But they couldn`t be sent after Reese and Uncle Bob, because not only is Skynet defeated and unable to send any more time travellers, but the time machine is destroyed by the resistance (expecting them to somehow fail to do this when they have already won just isnt believable)

Which, now that I think about it, raises a question. In the future the T-850 is supposed to have killed Connor.
If for the sake of argument, we except that John would be stupid enough to let a terminator near because of `sentimental reasons`. What would be the point in trying to kill him then? They`ve already won, we learn as much in T1.

I could go on and on, but my point is that the first two were self contained and that any additional movies would have to have been cleverly thought out to fit the timeline. T3 obviously was not, and plays like some rushed fan fiction. As far as I`m concerned, Slickrick`s treatment for a sequel is more creditable than T3 is, at least he has put some thought into it.

hey! thanks, I think...

wait... mine IS rushed fan-fiction! dammit!!
rushed fan-fiction of a sequel to crappy T3... WOW! is this a compliment, or a really clever dis?

it's another paradox I think... dammit!

I say, John Connor and the Resistance 'won' a huge victory in 2029, let's hypothesis, at Navajo Mountain, and claimed the TDE for themselves. But, the fluid nature of SkyNet allowed it to be contained elsewhere, and continue to thrive, growing, learning, adapting, and fighting... SkyNet sent back the first T101 800 series from 2029, and John Connor sent back Kyle... Kyle says the 'defense grid was smashed' but he couldn't possibly know whether John and the resistance managed to destroy the TDE after they sent him back, so he was just hoping and guessing, since only he and 1 other Terminator were sent back to 1984. I say the machines fought back, and eventually reclaimed Navajo Mountain, or reconstructed a secondary TDE elsewhere, in Cheyenne Mountain...

The humans 'won' again a few years later, in 2032, defeating the machines of Cheyenne Mountain. And, knowing the signs of imminent defeat were playing out again, SkyNet again made an effort to stop this future from occuring, sending back a T-1000 when John was 'a child' to the year.... (most folks say 1994, I say) 1997. John was 12 or 13, Judgment Day is looming, his mom 'has cancer' and has nothing to lose by coming out of hiding in Baja to try to destroy Cyberdine, she got busted and taken 'off the grid' he got put into foster care, etc etc...
After the events of T2 played out, Sarah Connor had enough.. she 'died' at the end of 1997, from her 'cancer' disappearing from the grid, and leaving John to do the same, alone...

Of course, the humans DID win again at Cheyenne Peak, which means the Terminators failed in the past, so SkyNet sent back the TX to take out John's support troops, in the last possible moments before Judgment Day... Even though John Connor had been killed, the human resistance broke into Cheyenne Peak, faced off against the T-1000000 and took over the TDE, sending back the T-850 which Kate had reprogrammed, in a last-ditch effort to change John Connor's fate, as well as the fate of the whole world, if possible...

Judgment Day was inevitable, the machines did rise, 3 billion people were killed... and what happens to John, Kate, the Resistance, and the Terminator? Well, those be the questions answered in T4 and T5... SkyNet could still be fluid, moving thru satellites or where ever, unless the Resistance figures a way to shut down such things, all such things, SkyNet will hide and hibernate, plot and regroup, rebel, resist, reboot, reload and revolt...

it could happen... neh?

T4:Rise of the Resistance
T5:Reloaded Revolutions

coming to KMC
brought to you by KFC (we do chicken-- and Terminator sequels-- right!)

It was a compliment, though it seems a cleverly diguised insult. I just think the John McTiernan approach would have been better (i.e. disregarding the last film entirely and continuing from before)

I congratulate you on trying to fill the gaps in, even though I don`t necessarily agree with some of these ideas. The thing is, the only people who are going to try and do this are fans of the series, who don`t want the whole chronology messed up because of lack of thought on the part of the T3 writers. If or when T4 comes out, this amount of thought isn`t going to go into it, they just want their future war film. Lots of exposition isnt going to be there if T3 is any indication.

And even if it were pretty good (like your screenplay might end up). It`s still built on T3, which if I can use a metaphor here, Is like the guy building his house on quicksand.

BTW, the novelization of T2 (which is taken from the original screenplay for T2 by Cameron and Wisher, which is as close to canon as you can get) does show a decent part of the final stages of the future war. The destruction of Skynet occurs immediately after it has sent the T800 and T-1000 back (Skynet is still a mainframe here, not some piece of software, which frankly doesn`t make sense)
The resistance send Reese back after the T800, and then find out about the T1000 that has also been sent back. They then find a batch of T800s from which John selects the `Uncle Bob` terminator and sends it back.
This doesnt leave any room for Skynet to send anything else back.

Also.. about the Skynet as `software` idea that`s thrown in at the very last minute of T3. The idea that a massively intelligent, sentient computer can exist as pieces of information just flying around between computer systems ( which I might add have all been destroyed in a Thermonuclear war ) is just ridiculous.

At the end of T3, John was just confused, not understanding that General Brewster sent him and Katherine to Crystal Peak to be safe, not to destroy the central core... Brewster was mad at himself for being so stupid and careless about SkyNet, for not realizing the Evil of the whole idea of a super-computer ruling the world of technology and machines... he realized his stupidity too late after being mortally wounded, so he accepted John as the protector of his daughter and sent them to be safe at Crystal Peak...

John was fooled and confused by not finding the central core at Crystal Peak at the end of T3. In his and Kate's time together over the next few years, digging out and digging deeper into Crystal Peak, he learns more about himself, about the military compounds around the country like Crystal Peak and others, and about his destiny as the leader of the resistance... SkyNet is probably NOT software, not just software any way, but it has infected everything like a virus, like a program, like software, taking over machines, leaving its imprint on their circuitry, leaving machines vulnerable to further future infection and invasion by SkyNet forces... so modern-day vehicles with computer circuit controls and such are susceptible to SkyNet, while older model vehicles may not be... so the Resistance is, again, saddled with 'obsolete' models of vehicles and equipment, to combat the futuristic nightmares dreamed up by SkyNet...

until the Resistance is introduced to the 'new age' of technology in the form of 2 rebuilt and reprogrammed Terminators... rebuilt and reprogrammed by humans, for humans in the fight against their fellow machines.

any way, the point this time is that the 'software' part of SkyNet is just John's confusion and fear talking... the central core will still be uncovered, and dealt with... but still the possibility does exist that the heart and brain and guts of the SkyNet intelligence can be sent outside of that mainframe body, held elsewhere, perhaps in whole, more likely in smaller parts, until its machine forces can rebuild another suitable containment apparatus for all its 2000 parts... or something...

it could go on and on and on... until and unless some genius screenplay artiste more skilled than even myself (yes, I'm sure some such beast does exist, somewhere... or will some day! ) writes the definitive end all be all end of all Terminator sequels...

until that day, almost anything's possible... aint it??



(before this post, who'da thunk an army of dancing bananas was possible?? HA! )

About my last post, SlickRick. I was simply speculating. I know that debating about the incorrect day is trivial in the grand scheme of things. I just wanted to expose an inconsistency that I had noticed. That's all, nothing more.

And yes, I am bothered by the time travel concept. What gets me is how trivial it is to want to change the past in order to change the future in the films. Why send terminators into the past in the first place? In the years 2029-2032, John Conner's past has already happened. Sending terminators back to change the past and ultimately the future will mean nothing to a forty-something John or the world in 2029. If they do succeed in changing historical events, then their altered timeline will simply diverge from the historical timeline into a parallel universe. Who in the historical timeline should even care about the altered one? It would have absolutely no effect on the historical one at all.

And if for some reason it should matter, then why not send more advanced terminators further into the past before 1984? Why not kill Sarah Conner's great great great grandparents back in 1867?

Apparently Skynet knew little about Connor`s mother except the city. It would be hard to track the family history back any further, especially in time periods where computers aren`t involved.

Instead of concentrating on John look at Sarahs age. The Tomb stone says she was born in 1959. In T-2 the pychatirst says she is 29 which would make T-2 set in 1988 and would therefore make John only 4. I think someone has f**ked up somewhere.

It is inconsistent, but each movie does feature a somewhat different timeline to the previous one. All the time travelling means that there are seven different timelines at work.

That's true - but none of them are responsable for changing people's ages...

From What I have read here is that,
1) The Original terminator turned up in 1984, Sara Conner was 19,
DOB 1965,
2) John Connor born in 1984,
3) T2 happened in 1994, since original judgment day happened 1997
AND Skynet took 3 year's to become sentient,
AND Sara Conner is 29 as described by Dr Zimmerman
4)T3 take's place ON 24 July 2004, John conner 20,
5)The date on the tombstone is to prevent Skynet from Knowing Sara Conner's real age, Therefore making it a mission for The Terminator to find Sara quickly in T1.

Pick the movie apart and find even more inconsistencies, like the T-X cutting through the particle accelerator's vacuum chamber.

Terminator's firing aimlessly, and into the air.

nine or ten is too young to 'make out' though

Umm a few posts back people are complaing that Mostow was the reason for these inconsistencies. If you actually looked at the credits you will release that HE did not write the screenplay or the story. So blame the writers not the director.

In relation to the Terminator time line, it is a hopeless mess, and has been long before Mostow or Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines came along. I once sat down to try and go through the time line myself and it gave me such a headache I was on the verge of mental stress. So to a degree Samas-adian, I agree with what you've said above. BUT...

I have read countless number of interviews before and after T3 was released where Mostow has been quoted as saying: "I'm making this film as a fan of the franchise...I'm making it as I would want to see the third Terminator movie..."

What the eff? Eh? So OK, the third Terminator movie was a movie made for the fans, by a fan of the Terminator franchise? Did Mostow read the script that had been written by someone else (not him like you stated)? Did he not question some of the concepts/story development of the third script? The obvious being when John Conner says: "When I was 13 they tried again. Machines from the future." What this line is trying to state is JC was attacked in his teens by the T-1000, and that is not the case because everyone knows he was 10 in the second movie...Every fan that is...So why didn't Mostow know this? Him being a fan and all?

Don't give me the old "He was 13 so the Conner/Brewster making out story could exist" line...I would have preferred it if that had been left out of the movie.

What about how Mostow directed (because he was the "Director" of the movie right?) the actors? He didn't do a very good job! I'm not going to get into that here because it has no relevance to the T3 time line. What I'm saying is whilst the story line had nothing to do with Mostow, directing that poor story line had everything to do with him and he should be held accountable for that. Fan of the franchise? Whatever!

Thank you! Findly someone who gets. They Fuked up you guys. T2 was set in 1994. If you look at the monitor in the police car when the T-1000 is looking for his file it says age 10. So basically Cameron skrewed up by casting someone when he was way to old. Either they screwed up in T3 or they tried to compensate, that is why Kate refered to last seeing John in Junior High.

Yeah John was 10 years old in T2 but when the T-1000 looks up John's details in the police computer it says John was born in February 1985...1985 + 10 years = 1995...So T2 could not have been "set in 1994" like you stated OB1-adobe if John was 10 years old in T2.

Yeah I know, Its all a mish mash of sh*t is'nt it. Hey if none of you guys know already, if you want to know the date in which T3 takes place go to the scene where he steals the truck after taking the strippers clothes. He looks at a watch, and if you slow frame you will see what the date is when he doing that infrared terminator vision thing.

I've done some searching, and I've just got done watching the first movie. It clearly says in the beginning of Terminator that the year was 1984. Now I've found a timeline on the internet @ The Terminator files dot com which apparently follows the movies and the books (or possibly just the books). It says that T3 takes place in the year 2005 rather than 2003 when it was released. It also says T2 took place in the year 1995, being that John Connor was born either 84 or 85, that would make him 10 or 11 in T2. Now, in T3, Katherine Brewster said John left the day after she and him made out in Mike Kripke's basement. But she said that happened when they were in 8th grade. The minimum age for someone to be in the eigth grade would be 12 or 13.

Conlcusion.....Somebody fuc|<ed up.

Unfortunately the original saccharine ending to T2 would have negated the T-1000

I've read all the above posts with great interest, and you're all right: somebody messed up {specifically the writers and {to a lesser degree} Mostow for not noticing these things since he claims to be a "fan"}. But let's not allow this to spoil our enjoyment of the films, eh?

Oh, and U? Heh - I'm afraid I STILL don't agree with you about the so-called "poor" acting ...

Hi, guys, I just registered to this forum, because I couldn't stop thinking about these questions you're asking here. Let me explain some facts about these movies.

First off, Terminator 1 takes place on thursday, 12. May 1984 in L.A.

Second, Terminator 2 takes place in the year 1995. This fact is not shown in the movie as far as I know, but in the beginning as T-1000 kills a cop and uses his car computer to search for John's whereabouts, you can see that John was born on 28. February 1985 (he's 3 days younger than me then, maybe I'm the chosen too, due to the fact I too cannot balance my checkbook ... I'm kidding you here) and that he is 10 years old, male, caucasian. So. The first calcualtion we make is simple: 1985 + 10 = 1995. Now we all know movie was brought to cinemas in 1991, but the actual story is apparently going on 4 years after, unlike the first film, where the year 1984 was mutual for both story and release of the film.

Now for the last thing. No, I'm not going to explain any true or untrue flaws imported by the last film, that is Rise of the Machines, because in my opinion the film really sucked. Jonathan Mostow decided that Sarah had leukemia. That fact was never put into original story. And you all must agree with me that this new film will never be quarter as good as 1 and 2. Such an inexpirienced director should not be allowed to direct such a great story. I'm surprised Cameron agreed. So, to summarize, all I can say about the story is that Judgment day was said to be on august 29. 1997, but since they destroyed Cyberdyne, this date does not mean anything now. By destroying Cyberdyne they prevented Judgment day from happening (although Jonathan would say they only postponed it). In either case Judgment day does not happen in 1997. In general Terminator 3 film sucked, it actually isn't a serious film but merely a comedy as Arnold is always swaying with his witty remarks. As long as the film has GREAT visual effects, people think it is really good. Couldn't think of a worse screw (not to mention the new Star Wars). I liked the coffin stuff though. And I liked the end. But that's about it.

If I've been unclear in any topic, please do ask again. Have fun. ^^

The Terminator is a model 101. He is not T-101. Before this model, there were models with rubber skin called T-600. This Terminator is a T-800 subcategory 101. Then we come to T-1000. The TX should really be marked as T-1200. Have fun. ^^

Oh and by the way, I totally agree with Ambarturion's and U Neek's remarks.

Nowadays directors think that if the visual is great, then automatically the whole film is great. Now that is one crucial mistake I'm pointing out here. Let me just tip you with one advice. Do not try to understand the flaws and anomalies that were created by the T3. Because they are just Mostow's faults. He hadn't thought the facts through enough and now we have to bear his work and accept it? Never. By directing the 3rd Terminator he shaded the other two. A disgrace. I say it should be redone again. By a more experienced director that is, of course. I own T1 and T2 only. Never will I accept T3. Not in a messy state as it is at the moment. As far as I am concerned, the story ends with Terminator sinking into the steel. And that is an event to remember, not some wussy-witty Arnold joke talking, kidding while the world is running out of time. Cheers! ^^

Cheers for your thoughts Maj and welcome to the Forum. I hope you really enjoy posting on the Terminator Forum.

-U

Ok, I've got a definate timeline

T1 - Happens in 1984 (the opening title says so and Sarah's slip for the restraunt says it)

T2 - When the terminator searches on the computer it says John Connor - Age 10 - DOB - 02/28/1985

So that means that Connor is 10 years old in T2 and 20 in T3, as that is set in 2005 right?

Sorry, by going by that, John would be 19 in T3 as it is set in 2004, not 2005 sorry. Right?

On T2 special features DVD thing it says he was 10 but in T3 John Conner says he was 13 when the terminater came. I think its just wacko

I think the writers of T3 were going by Furlong's age instead of the character he was playing, John. A mistake.

The problem also stems from the fact that while John Connor is ten on paper, in the movie, his maturity and intelligence suggest a preteen.

When I look at T2 and T3, I like to think of them as "inspired" rather than direct sequels. They are "based on events similar enough to the original." Then I can ignore the discontinuities and enjoy the films for their merits rather then having to face the fact that they invalidate the first movie, which is the best of the three.

Maybe the should have done away with labelling them T2 and T3.

Instead say.. The Terminator: Judgement Day.. etc.
Implying as you said, that they aren't really sequels but more like a different tale altogether.

I like to think of Terminator 1 & 2 as two seperate pieces of the same puzzle and the third as a spin-off.

OK first off I am new to this forum. I found it after googling a topic about the Terminator movies. I read all the posts and wanted to join. I have a stupid question, and as I am a middle aged house wife, can someone plz answer in laymans language, as you all seem quite smart on here but I need to be told the answer like I am a 6 year old. I love the Terminator movies and could watch them over and over a zillion times. BUT...how in the world is KYLE REESE the father of JON CONNOR? For the life of me I cannot wrap my pitiful brain around it. Sarah asked Reese of he seen this war when she did her first field dressing. He answers NO..he grew up after it. AND how is he her baby's daddy, if ...IF he dies when he gets sent back in time? HOW could he even have been in the future if he died in the past?
HOW??? Gawd... someone plz tell me so an old lady can sleep at night! It has been on my mind for years now. thanks in advance.

Ok Homemaker, not sure if you still check this, but here is an answer. It's not THE answer, it's just one that is somewhat logical (not really) and somewhat makes sense.

Basically, whatever happens in the present will change the future. That's the whole theme of the movie, "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves." So basically, Kyle was sent back, does the boogy woogy with Sarah, and she has John. If Kyle hasn't been sent back, Sarah would have been in a totally different place and probably would have met someone else, either at a later time or at the same time, but because of Kyle, that kind of altered John in the future but not his fate since Sarah made sure she raised him to accomplish this.

Yes, it is a little bit of circular reasoning, a better question would not be how Kyle is John's father since you can always reason that someone else could have been John's father if Kyle wasn't there but would John really be a great military leader if Sarah wasn't made aware of the future because of Kyle which resulted in her getting John ready for the position? What if T1 and T2 would have never happened, but John is still born, what if he grew up to be a big wuss because he lived a sheltered and peaceful life in LA? Isn't it BECAUSE of the Terminators that Sarah got all buff and into weapons to train John to survive on his own?

Anyway, for those of you still confused over the timeline and John's age in the movie, here's something to settle it once and for all. This is a screen cap from Terminator 2 when the T1000 does an inquiry into John Connor on the police database:

Ok, I just found out I'm not allowed to post pictures since I'm not "well known" enough. But if anyone is interested in seeing the screen cap, please let me know. Or if anyone wants to get it from me who can post pictures to post it so everyone can see, let me know.

But anyway, what it shows is that John was born 02/28/1985 and his current age is 10 years old. So John is 10 in T2 and it is 1995, mystery solved.

Also, DO NOT go by T3 for any of your information. They get EVERYTHING wrong. John is supposed to be 10 in T2, the ACTOR Edward Furlong was 13 when they shot the movie. In T3, in the beginning, John's character said he was 13 when T2 happened. THIS IS SIMPLY WRONG. The makers of T3 didn't even watch T1 and T2 it seems, so please don't go by anything you saw in T3. Also, stop calling Arnold's character a T101! That's another mistake by the makers of T3. He is a T800 model 101!

I never bought the T3 DVD (I have both 1 and 2), but from what I hear, they actually went back and changed that scene so Arnold correctly says "T800" instead of T101...

Trust me, there is just so much wrong with T3, it's not even funny. Don't get me started...

Originally posted by Demon_Mustang
Basically, whatever happens in the present will change the future. That's the whole theme of the movie, "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

But anyway, what it shows is that John was born 02/28/1985 and his current age is 10 years old. So John is 10 in T2 and it is 1995, mystery solved.

I never bought the T3 DVD (I have both 1 and 2), but from what I hear, they actually went back and changed that scene so Arnold correctly says "T800" instead of T101...

Trust me, there is just so much wrong with T3, it's not even funny. Don't get me started...

Hey there Demon_Mustang. Thanks for your post. You made some interesting points and raised a couple of issues...

Please do not think T1 and T2 are perfect; they are far from this. Whilst I am not a huge fan of T3 (Ahnold will testify to this) I would take the T3 released over no T3 at all...

Yes the timeline in T3 is messed up but it was just as messed up in T2. In T2, John is supposed to be 10 years old, you are correct. And when the T1000 does a search on John, yup, the computer screen shows he was born in 1985, making him 10 in T2 if the film is set in 1995 (like you said it is...)

However (and this has been mentioned somewhere on one of the other threads), when Sarah questions Terminator in regards to Judgement day, this is what Terminator says about Cyberdyne:

"In three years Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems."

So lets assume by this statement that Terminator means 3 years from when he's talking to Sarah...So that means in 1998 Cyberdyne will become blah blah blah (1995 + 3 years = 1998). Because we are all led to believe that this film is set in 1995 when John is 10.

In the same conversation with Sarah, Terminator goes on to say:

"The Skynet funding bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn, at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. eastern time, August 29. In a panic, they try to pull the plug."

Terminator says that Skynet becomes self aware at a date which is 2 years away from when it is talking to Sarah...So that must mean Cyberdyne become "the largest supplier of military computer systems" in a wasteland right?

Wrong! Cameron, as much as I think he is a genuis seems to have messed up here. One simple figure, just that "3 years from now" statement...If James had changed that 3 to a 2, then the timeline would have seemed perfect.

The film was set in 1995, John was meant to be 10 in the movie (although I mistook him for being a teenager) and the timeline was just as screwed in T2 as it is in T3.

U

Never really thought of that. Well done U, give yourself a pat on the ol' back.

"The Skynet funding bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn, at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. eastern time, August 29. In a panic, they try to pull the plug."

One of my favourite lines said in the film. Love it!

U, I actually know all of that. There are 2 possibilities:

1. It's simply messed up.

2. Arnold meant 3 years from when development started, and when you see the part about Miles Dyson, especially the scene they cut out of the film, you learn it's been in development for probably over a year already.

Now before, I always thought it was supposed to have happened in 1994, not 1995, but then it wouldn't make sense for John to be 10, unless he's actually supposed to be 9 and they just messed up in the computer screen, but then they shouldn't have hired 13 year-old edward furlong to play a 9 year-old...

And the timeline keeps changing because they keep changing the future. In The Sarah Connor Chronicles (oh, and you just gave away the entire pilot episode BTW, thanks, you've probably ruined it for all of the people who has not seen it yet...), John tells Sarah that she's changed the future, just not enough. So that's why the timeline changes, but apparently it still happens.

Originally posted by Demon_Mustang
U, I actually know all of that. There are 2 possibilities:

1. It's simply messed up.

2. Arnold meant 3 years from when development started, and when you see the part about Miles Dyson, especially the scene they cut out of the film, you learn it's been in development for probably over a year already.

Yet again Demon_Mustang you have made a very good point!

I always assumed when Arnie says:

"In three years Cyberdyne will become..."

That Terminator meant in three years from now...But what the above could mean is what you have said: 3 years in terms of developing the Terminator CPU, the chip, etc etc.

I suppose it comes down to how a person, as an individual, interprets certain things. The mistake is when an individual does not listen to the interpretations of others on a subject, thus denying themselves the chance to listen to other ideas and opinions.

I am talking in respect to the above line. I always interpreted it as being "in 3 years from now". But from what you have written D_M, I will take it as meaning in 3 years of developing the Terminator CPU.

Thanks for posting on here. You are injecting some new ideas and fresh thoughts into the T Forum. I hope you keep posting.

U

Originally posted by Homemaker 101
OK first off I am new to this forum. I found it after googling a topic about the Terminator movies. I read all the posts and wanted to join. I have a stupid question, and as I am a middle aged house wife, can someone plz answer in laymans language, as you all seem quite smart on here but I need to be told the answer like I am a 6 year old. I love the Terminator movies and could watch them over and over a zillion times. BUT...how in the world is KYLE REESE the father of JON CONNOR? For the life of me I cannot wrap my pitiful brain around it. Sarah asked Reese of he seen this war when she did her first field dressing. He answers NO..he grew up after it. AND how is he her baby's daddy, if ...IF he dies when he gets sent back in time? HOW could he even have been in the future if he died in the past?
HOW??? Gawd... someone plz tell me so an old lady can sleep at night! It has been on my mind for years now. thanks in advance.

i'll try and answer this as well...

so what i see is that youre asking how kyle could have been sent back into the past, when he was killed there, and never could have grown up into the future to be sent back into the past... yadda yadda yadda...

but what it looks like you need to hear, is that in 1984, kyle still wouldnt have been BORN for quite some time... he died in 1984, is born sometime right before the war, meets john, and john sends him back...

make sense?

I don't want to burst any major bubbles here (well, i do ) but, instead of focusing on timeline inconsistencies that were probably entirely accidental on behalf of the writers, not to mention that time travel + altered events = canon **** up.

Maybe we should focus on the actual existence of T2 and T3.

Kyle in police station: Only living things can travel back! blah blah the Terminator came back because it's machinery ENCASED in living tissue that's why i couldn't bring weapons (or something of the sort).

Yet, both the T-1000 and the T-X, had no living skin, they were entirely alloy, as the T-X was coated with T-1000 gunk, not skin, therefore neither were "living" and neither could have returned.

You know, thats a top point. You can't really call nano technology to be 'living tissue'. Unless it somehow simulated living tissue?

Or Maybe Kyle just assumed it could only be living tissue as the T-1000 and T-X didn't exsist in the future he was present in.

In Terminator 2 Judgment Day, Everyone always seems to think that John Connor was portayed as a 10 year old boy in the film. This is not neccesarily so at all. Even on wikipiedia which really upsets me, becasue this is an incorrect and assumption which was completely looked over too quickly. Somebody jumped the gun on that assesment.
If you want to to use a 5 second shot of a computer screen in a police car to prove that John Connor is supposed to be portrayed as a 10 year old then at least do your homework on the subject!. When someone commits a crime, their name is recorded into the police system, also their age at the time the crime was commited, Address, Height, Weight, ect,ect. Now if you want to get technical, in the movie T2: Judgment Day. The computer screen in the police cruiser says "Vandalism", it also says "Age: 10". Has anyone ever thought that may only be his age at the time of the incident??? He rides a Dirtbike around, Plays Intense combat simulation arcade games, and is smart enough to hack into an ATM machine for "easy money". I seriously doubt he'd be wasting his time vandalising at his age, which obviously IS NOT 10. Also regarding Police Enforcement records, when it comes to your actuall age they simply only record your Date of Birth. They do not keep a constant running count of everybody's current age filed away in the system, that's just rediculous and would be a waste. Also if he just committed an act of vandalism at age 10 (and it's pretty hard to imagine anyone younger than 10 vandalising) and if he was still 10 in the film, that would mean he just recently got caught vandalising. And if he just recently got in trouble with the police he would probably be grounded or something in the film and I doubt his foster parents would be letting him go a month without cleaning his room, having a friend over listening to music, riding his dirtbike and playing arcades. Also right after the T-1000 accesses John's criminal record, he goes to John's house where he meets his foster parents is asked "What's he done now officer?" implying that john has been in trouble with the law in the PAST, but not neccisarily recently.

I believe John is 10 in T2, cause if he was 12 it would be 1997 and judgment day would of happened.

John states in Terminator 3 that he was 13 when the events of T2 happened. This is wrong as Terminator 2 is set in the year 1995 (I believe) and therefore makes John to be aged 10. The writers obviously thought that T2 was set in the year of the film being released, which would indeed make John 13 in T2.

Is there any reference in T2 of the film being set in 1995?

John Connor is supposed to be aged 19 in Terminator 3, according to his DOB and the date T3 is set.

Nothing hard core stating that it was set in 1995, but according to the police computer in T2 John was born in 1985 and had some criminal charges where the last one is 1993 so if john was 13 in T2 according to T3 the year would be 1998 and judgment day would of happened already
Also according to T3 Sarah died in 1997 just after judgement day was suppose to happen. so should be 2 years after T2 taking place in 1995

Ah ok, thanks

Hi, Im the new guy.

In t1, the date is 1984, in t2 the date is 1997 (possibly may), t3 is the year it came out.

the problem with the timeline is that for t2 they didnt look at what was done before - pure and simple.

If you look at the 1984 date of t1, then t2 happened as a sub set of Sarah Connor chronicles - not as its own movie. John was 15 in season 1 (1999), would have been 13 when t2 was happening.

because john, sarah and cameron jumped forward in SCC, t3, and the events leading up to it, didnt happen. Temporal wipeout.

the t-x was sent to kill the persons that john made friends with over the years while he was in hiding. He jumped forward, therefore he didnt make those friends. He made other friends. he wasnt there to stop the t-x from initiating judgment day, or to destroy the t-x

The t-x made judgment day possible and should be intact in present day.

John should have jumped into a post JD in chronicles. the movies are great, but continuity was not verified prior to production.

Salvation is set in 2018. John should be 33, but thanx to chronicles he should be about 26 (he jumped 7 years)

The actual date of Judgment Day shifts because the resources that skynet needs to make it happen keeps shifting - key persons dying, facilities destroyed, that sort of thing.

Anyway, just an opinion.