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OK,

First let me begin by stating that I still believe in the MWAM theory. But, at one point I was starting to believe that theory was incorrect. Although there are a number of points, counter-points for each argument, the biggest concern of mine, was how Neo stopped the sentinels. While trying to convince myself the MWAM theory was WRONG, here's what I came up with...

Neo (as well as everyone else who was at one time plugged into the Matrix) is basically a cyborg, a human with mechanical implants (the plugs, which are still in him). It is feasible that he could have another sort of implant inside him which is a sort of transmitter (Not difficult to comprehend since wireless tech is pretty simple).

Since part of his mind is now inside "The Source" (according to ETM game) his matrix-mind (or code) is now part of the machine "collective" mind (what one sees, they all see). Therefore, the Source-Neo would be aware that his Zion-self was in danger (he could see it through the eyes of the attacking sentinel). So, Zion-Neo can now "feel" the machines through his transmitter implant now receiving signals based on his new connection with "The Source."

Therefore, the Source-Neo (based on the wireless "request" from Zion-Neo) merely activates some sort of electro charge to stop the sentinels. Since the tunnels are basically lined with mechanical equipment (pipes and conduit) it is feasible to assume that there could be equipment capable of generating that charge located throughout the tunnels.

Why did it knock Neo into unconsciousness? Perhaps the charge overloaded the connection between his brain and his source-mind. Since Bane is physically the same as Neo, a Smith mind inside Bane (Bane is a cyborg too with the same implants) connected to a Smith mind in the Matrix, he could defend himself the same way, with the same effect (unconsiousness).


So, that's the theory I came up with to explain Neo stopping the sentinels without the MWAM theory...what do you think?

Yo,
First I think that the "wireless" hardware IN Neo is wrong. Because to get in the Matrix (usually) you are "jacked in" using that prod thing. The prod connects to the ship's core, which broadcast's a signal INTO the matrix (almost exactly like satilite internet) .

I think that the explaination for the Sentinals and Neo is that the approaching ship (the Hammer) which is the most powerful ship in the fleet fired it's EMP whill still be able to move (only THE HAMMER can do that because it is the biggest and strongest) scince Neo had his hand up, he was zaped also.

As for sensing them, In reloaded we learn that Smith and Neo are connected. The Agents are able to contact the sentinals as we learn in the 1st film by what Smith said: "Deploy the sentinals". Scince part of Neo is Still in the Matrix (his mind, which is part of the brain that has all the senses) he is able to Sense them OUT of the Matrix. But I am unsure of that myself because in ETM we learn that Agent Smith is no longer an Agent.

Niobe: Are you an Agent?
Smith: No.
Smith 2: I am the Alpha
Smith 3: Of your Omega

Yeah, I'm not saying the "wireless" implant could be used as a substitute to "hacking into" the matrix, but more as a communication device, broadcasting his location, vital signs, brainwaves, etc. (Remember in the 1st movie, when Neo was "flushed" the Neb was trying to lock in on his "signal". As far as the Neb broadcasting a signal INTO the matrix, I always assumed it was not wireless, thus the need to tap into a "Main Line" that they're always mentioning. Broadcast depth I always assumed meant that the main lines only existed above a certain depth, and that "broadcasting" was similar to what cable TV stations do (broadcasting a signal through main lines).



I don't that explanation works in this case, because that would seem to defy the whole purpose of the EMP. Also it creates a problem, because if the The Hammer can withstand an EMP, then surely the machines could be built to do the same.





I don't think there is a definitive answer that Smith and Neo are still "connected." They at one time had a "connection" when Neo hurled himself into Smith in the 1st movie, which had a profound effect on both, but nowhere does it state that the "connection" still exists. In the movie, "connection" is referred to in the past tense...here's that part of the conversation from the movie's transcript.

Smith: Suprised to see me?
Neo: No.
Smith: Then you're aware of it?
Neo: Of what?
Smith: Our connection. I don't fully understand how it happened, perhaps some part of you imprinted onto me, something overwritten or copied. It is at this point irrelevant, what matters is that whatever happened, happened for a reason.
Neo: And what reason is that?
Smith: I killed you, Mr. Anderson, I watched you die, with a certain satisfaction, I might add, and then something happened. Something that I knew was impossible, but it happened anyway. You destroyed me, Mr. Anderson. Afterward, I knew the rules, I understood what I was supposed to do, but I didn't; I couldn't; I was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey, and now, here I stand because of you, Mr. Anderson, because of you I am no longer an agent of this system, because of you I've changed, I'm unplugged, a new man, so to speak. Like you, apparently free.
Neo: Congratulations.
Smith: Thank you. But, as you well know appearances can be deceiving which brings me back to the reason why we're here. We're not here because we're free, we're here because we're not free. There's no escaping reason, no denying purpose because as we both know, without purpose we would not exist.

I am not sure HOW exactly the Hammer can withstand its own E.M.P. but for a fact it can (ill try to find the page I saw this on) But the machines is diffrent because the CPU is like a diskette (example) when you rub a magnet next to that diskette, all the info on it is earased and it is unusable, you have to re-format it. The E.M.P. affects only the information part of the drive, which is the vital. This is why you can't have anybody hooked up to the Matrix (even in the Hammer) the consols and the operation center would be "fried". And there was nobody hooked up in The Hammer because it was in motion.

this is all very confusing

Wait till you read other threads.... O you already have. AND answered them. a lot. Like me.

ok now my head hurts from all this prossesing information

Take an Advil. L L

lol funny guy!!

hehe

What is the MWTM theory????

You all have probably seen this before but here goes anywayz...


http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cacheI-EMvsuj3YJ:www.livejournal.com/users/makulit/7750.html+matrix+anomaly+code&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Ahhhhh. Nothing quite like mathematics to take the fun out of everything.

hmmmm ya

How about this.

What has been suggested in this thread is that a part of neo is in the machine mainframe source. If that is the case and neo dies in the real world, the code that is attributied to him in the source would stop operating.

Maybe the sentinels when approaching neo were auto destructed by the architect / mainframe safety controls to prevent neo being killed.

Still dosnt explain why neo collapsed though. Damn cliffhangers, I wanna know how he stoped those sentinels now not in november. !

Actually everything's mathematics 0's & 1's

Or it was the Hammer

Originally posted by The Omega
Gabriel> And that does even less to prove anything. So do you have anything real, or do you just like to sound like a computer-mathematican??


Look at the link I posted at the end of the first page. I believe the matrix extends into the movie's "real world". That guy just presents another of looking at how the movie is set up. As for the mathematics bit, ignore it kiddo.

MWTM = Matrix Within The Matrix

I think that Neo was able to stop the sentinel because even though he/everyone thought they were unplugged, they were simply in another part of the programme.
So when they unplug from the "matrix" , they are still within the "matrix", so Neo's powers will still work there
You will ask why he never did it before then is probably because he never thought about it, but when he met with the architect, Neo became aware that they never left the Matrix

I MEAN COME ON, how can a few thousand people overthrough a planet of robots physically???....the only way to do that is play on the same feild. WHICH IS what the matrix offers.

What makes you think they will?

Aside from not wanting this to become another debeate aboput Matrices within Matrices...

There are NO facts ANYWHERE that state the Hammer can fire its EMP on the move. And if it was the Hammer that stopped the sentinels, then what is with Neo saying "I can feel them" and OBVIOUSLY doing something personally?

No, it was not the Hammer that did it.

Thats a pretty bold statement(sp). The Hammer is the best ship they have,plus it could have been docked and after it fired it started again.
What Neo says I cant explain it eithr

The bold statement is to say the Hammer did it when there is no indication anywhere in the film that it did, or even could. What the hell does how big and strong it is have to do with it being able to withstand an EMP anyway, that is just nonsense! There is no basis for this belief about the Hammer other than what a load of fans have spread.

Whilst the indication that Neo did it is rather blatant!

Fine have it your way!

Yeah it was definitely Neo, the directors wouldn't put all that flair into some ship coming along and zapping the sentinels. I think Neo did set off an EMP because Trinity fiddles with her gun during whatever Neo is doing.

When are we ever told that the Hammer is the strongest ship?

Moosh> I think Link says its the best or its Morpheous. (i think )
Omega> The door Neo chose returns to the Matrix and he saves Trinity.Thats how we know.

As fo the 'Not being possible the Hammer stoped the sentinels' fine,ok.Makes no difference to me if it was Neo or the Hammer.

At least they werent turned 2 toast lol

No, not MWMT!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/frusty.gif I would prefer super powers to that.

Yeh I love the new smiles
Yeh the digital self theory is much better

id hate for neo to have super powers, that would make the whole thing to farfeched.

Celcius> There seems to be a general consensus that there are NO superpowers. So it more or less divides the people here. One group advocates a Matrix Within The Matrix, and the other that Neo stopped the Sentinels inside the Matrix.
A third theory is welcome

How about this? Neo is THE one, not just the one to free everyone from the Matrix, but THE one to actually put an end to the machines! So therefore, he has the power of to stop ALL machines, not just inside a computer program. I wouldn't consider it superpower, but who knows until nov. right? I mean we can sit and speculate all we want but we'll never know, until we see it right? Anyway, I don't think the machines went through the trouble of making a matrix within a matrix, they were probably pretty confident in the matrix keeping control over the humans, they didn't worry with it. But machines have a need for perfection, or a computerized version of it anyway, what the machine thinks is mathmatically perfect! That's not really a theory, but it seems too complicated to create a matrix within a matrix within a matrix within a matrix ... Oh, sorry.

Vim> The problem with that theory is: HOW? How did Neo do that? Has he downloaded some kind of nifty program from the Matrix so he can do it wirelessly? Does the One possess a special code in his plugs? (Insert other idea here)?

lol Maybe the one has in the savior. You know walk on water and stuff
Maybe he has in internal modem

There have been so many. I'm gonna see the movie with all this wierd ideas

Aight here is my theory B aside from my spoiler. First off Omega a plan B? The machines dont and wouldnt need a plan B, they are machines they are perfect, there is no way you can beat a machine, the machines would perfect 1 Matrix so they wouldnt have to have a billion other Matrixs. Also Neo having super powers...blah he should have super powers if he is the One should'nt he?...Oh I forgot he is'nt.

the machines have a few flaws Smithy. They don't have emotions or irrational thoughts so they can always be surprised by mankind.

Yes but Smith a degraded version of the Agent so they now probably have perfected the Agent program. Also if for everyone who believes MWAM then why would the machines tell the Agents to continually chase Smith in Reloaded?

i thought it was the bond that neo and smith had together, and since smith was "loaded" into banes brain, neo's "powers"in the matrix were "loaded" into his head in the architects room or somewhere else. And does anybody know if bane can stop things outside of the matrix?

Thats possible too Stovenutts, but still we don't know what the connection between Neo and Smith is for.

The connection happen when neo killed Smith. It doesn't have to be for anything.Right?

But why should it not be for anything? Everything has purpose as Smith said and without purpose nothing can exist.

Maybe to bring the humans and machines together against Smith

But why then create Smith?

What do you mean?

If the machines wanted to create a bond between themselves why would they do it through Smith? Why not just say hey we are going to release you because you created us and we want to be friends.

No Smith just happen. He was an agent. When Neo killed him he was suppose to be eliminated but chose not to becoming another rogue program. The machines didn't make him that way.

That is what makes Smith not a machine...he is'nt perfect is he?

Well he is a program. A program that lerns and adapts I guess.

Learning and adapting makes you weak, honestly who wants to learn? No one thats still kind of sad for our civiliztion though, but see the machines could boot up every piece of info ever discovered in like a day.
Actually in the Matrix the humans should'nt stand a chance because machines are better then we, I mean its kind of ironic that we have to depend on them.

I don't think machines are better than humans. I think humans are the most perfect machine and it is our flaws that makes us perfect. Each one different

If we were perfect would we have guns and disease? If we were perfect we would'nt kill each other.

Nobody is perfect.Nothing is perfect. I didn't mean it that literal.

I know you and I are just having an intelligent discussion. Its just that it seems that the Matrix is farfetch at the humans even having a chance.

The Matrix is farfetch because of the hole Matrix thing
I think humans would have a chance. We just keep coming back.

And the machines just zap us with their superduper rayguns of death!

lol if they have them then humans can have them 2.lol

Why? What if they fail? LOL MTV movie awards.

That thing was so cool I love the last bit when Neo is leaving and stops the guy goes like: Dont say it (or something) And then Neos line Hope or pray we never meet again and the guy says something likenow why did you do that or something and jumps Neo

Mister Timberlake

Mister William Scott...

Cmon Neo do the robot...

Why...

Its just the robot!

No....

Im the oracle damn it!

What if I fail?

You'll like being a dude...

I do..

But we are getting off topic

Ahh ookie...back on topic

This is far fetched, but I believe that they may have reloaded the matrix at the end of reloaded. That is why smith(bane) and neo passed out and why those sentinals konk out too. It would explain the name of the movie (which did not get explained)

No CrappyBob it did'nt get reloaded because Neo has to choose the door to his right, he chose the left. Nice hypothesis about the title though.

do you really think they gave neo a choice, or did it only appear that they gave neo a choice? Remember the whole conversation he had right before he chose the door? As long as he thinks he has a choice he will accept it. Just like the matrix people. The machines wouldn't let him choose to destroy the matrix, think about it.

Good point but I didn't see him chose the ppl that would rebuilt zion.

Neo's mind is trapped in the matrix, he has plenty of time to choose people. Who says the machines would even put neos mind back into neos body. They could put his mind in anyones body for all that matter.

So he just wakes up the ppl?Theres nobody outside to rescue them.

RIght, sorry if this has been said before.......

They haven't really left the matrix!

The "real world" is like a safety net, designed to stop people from escaping the matrix, the machines destroy Zion because they don't want the One to learn the truth, that they haven't escaped.

Thats why Neo can feel and stop the Sentinels because they are just like any other program in the matrix. The machines made the safety net nasty an apocolyptic to try to stop lots of people trying to escape the Matrix, the real world is probably quite nice, it won't have had any humans around to mess it up!

So you believe the matrix within the matrix theory.

hey buddy buddy your dead wrong.

Neo can feel the squids because part of his mind is still in the one and only matrix. That is why smith(bane) cut his hand before trying to attack neo, to be sure that he was in the real world. I should be charging money for this insight.