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I can finally vote, so I got my rear in gear and went out to lend my support to the democrats. The republicans are gonna easily roll in Colorado though. CT was much nicer for those who like Gore.

If I could vote I would vote for Gore. Bush doesn't have a clue about anything. He scares me.

Dang it KJ, I knew at least one of our American friends would ask this question and I was all keyed up with a smart-alec answer but you got in there with a sensible one before me!!!

Gore has been a major player inour countries most successful period ever. Bush is a blockheaded hunk of Bantha poodoo....hoohoohoo

Bush had better be elected, Gore is a moron. The man actually took credit for inventing the inetnet. I voted today and Bush got my vote.

Here's what a newspaper said was wrong with George Bush:

He is a Republican

He doesn't care about world issues unless they affect America

He is in favour of people carrying concealed handguns.

His past includes alcoholism, a drink-driving conviction he lied to a newspaper about and rumours of cocaine abuse.

He is the governor of the American state with the worst enviromental record.

His favourite foods are peanut butter and jelly.

He once said, "I think we both agree, the past is history."

He is verbally challenged and uninformed - he didn't know who was the president of Pakistan.

He favours the death penalty - 146 have been lethally injected during his tenure as Governor of Texas, despite often-flimsy evidence.

He has got a lop-sided smile.

DO NOT get me started on that MORON Bush JM, I'm watching the election now, it's tied up pretty much. I'm stressed out and about ready to put a gun in my mouth!!!!!! Gore is an obvious choice, how could anyone pick that thickheaded, pompous, egotistical, power hungery fool. AHHHH!!! Does anybody on this forum make over $125,000 dollars? want to watch our environment destroyed and our education system ruined? If you do vote Bush, if not, vote for the man who supports schools, the environment, medicare, social security and will keep the great economy of the past years rolling: Al Gore. EVERYTHING DD said was correct!!!

Hey!...I've got a lop sided grin and I"m okay...Harrison Ford does too....


But Bush The Lesser has won....*sigh* Xiz...if we lived through Reagan we can live through this..

Don't count your chickens yet, it's hanging on Florida right now which appears to have been mis-called with a difference of anly bout 500-1000 votes.

BTW, does the American press give as much coverage of the Britsi General Ellections as the British press is giving to the US Presidential race. All the UK news channels are covering it in depth.

Actually they give a bit of news about it...then just anounce who the new PM is.. I don't think your campain time is as long..

It's normally about 3-6 months but then UK politics is just one big campaign trail...

Go Gore !!!!

RC, you know better than to mention chickens around DD.

<<cough>> Al Gore is quite possibly the worst presidential candidate ever. He takes credit for things he didn't do(that internet thing gets me every time) and he is constantly changing his point of views. He says one thing one day and changes it another. He illegally raises money for campaigns and he was Bill Clinton's VP. He almost resorted to violence in one of the debates and constantly interupted Bush when he was talking. If you look at the map Bush has won way more states but Gore has won the "rich" ones, so don't say that Bush only helps the rich. Bush has had an agenda since the beginning and has stuck to it. And yes he does agree to the death penalty but if you look at polls so do the majority of Americans. As far as foreign policy goes, why is it that America needs to stick our nose in everywhere? We have our own problems that need to be fixed, so we should deal with those first and worry about everyone else next. Of course Al Gore does have some cute daughters...

Careful, you might fall off that soapbox!!!

Ah, youth

If I was in a room with Bush I think he could push me to violence as well. Here is some of the reasons I don't like him.
Pakistan are one of the biggest nuclear powers in the world but he didn't even know their presidents name. I don't know it either but I'm not a politician. He should know.

How can anyone be anti-abortion but pro-gun? It doesn't make sense.

His State has the worst enviromental record in America and he weilds the death penalty far too easily.He is Evil.

He says he will pull troops out of Kosavo but build up the American military. Why? Who are America at war with?

He did something that really annoys me. He was being interveiwed and was asked about the U.K. but he kept referring to it as England. Someone should tell him that the U.K is made up of 4 seperate countries. It would be like calling America New York.

In Star Wars terms Gore is like Sio Bibble- Boring, dull and he makes the odd mistake but he knows what he is talking about and he cares.
Bush is like a cross between Jabba and Palpatine. No explaination is needed for that.

Hey! I have a lop-sided smile as well. *hides face*, but I dislike Bush, ever since his father was president in the late 80's. I know Gore is your American's vice-president, but never heard any campaigning, I wonder why? *drifts off*

This Flordia problem is getting ridiculous.And incase you are wondering I want George W.

Thanks EJ I thought I was alone in here in wanting Bush. And Gore needs to quit his crying and admit that he lost.

Excellent points by KJ I must say. George Bush is a sadist nazified idiot with a massive ego and I don't understand why half of America would want him as the most powerful figure in the world.

Your right. And I knew EJ would have voted for Bush.

Why do you care KJ?You don't live in America.And I'm actually not a Republician if that's what your thinking.I vote for who I think is best qualified.And as much as I hate to say this,I don't think ethier of them are really all that qualified to lead our great country.

I thought you had to be 18 to vote. So how can you vote for anybody?

Besides, KJ has a MAJOR right to care. The role of President of the United States of Amreica is widely regarded as the most powerful position in the WORLD.

What happens in US politics can have great social and economic reprocussions around the world. As possibly Amaerica's closest international ally, all Britains have been watching this with great interest.

Gore is pro-United Kingdom whilst Bush has given all indications that he holds little value in the relationship Britain and America share. This could have major impacts for imports and exports between the two countries, inter-operability of our respective military forces and many, many other ares.

Please don't take our interest too lightly.

We care because America has such a strong effect on the rest of the world and the difference in presidency can make a lot of difference on us, not just you.
Actually, I have no idea what I'm talking about, as I know nothing about politics.
But still, I think Ratcat's point probably explains why KJ and the rest of us non-americans would be bothered by who becomes president.

Exactly, the current situation is quite scary. I'm not sure how they can even contemplate a re-vote though. Effectively, as they know the results from the rest of the country and it's such a close thing, you are asking Floridians to decide who should be President.

IMHO, the only fair way would be to re-vote the entire country.

For the record, I would like to see Gore win because I think the Anglo/American relationship has strengthen grteatly under Clinton and Gore would continue that trend.

Whether he's the right man for America itself, I don't know.

I agree with your points...especially the point made that we should have a new election...as it is it's going to become a big conflict if it all comes down to Florida...atleast that's the way it seems to be going.

What's with those stpid polling sheets anyway. What ever happened to a piece of paper with the names and a crayon to mark an "X" nect to your candidate. That's how it's always been done here and no one EVER had a problem with it.

Those ballot papers are the strangest thing I've ever seen and very suspect if you ask me... Which no one did, but there you go.

So, Ratcat, what did you think of those ballot papers?

I understand that.Your right I'm not old enough to vote but I will be soon enough.I am very interested in politics and I care about my country.While I dislike what both stand for:Gore-for abortion,Bush-agaist gun laws,I beleave Bush is the lesser of two evils as many may say.His father did a much better job than Clinton(who wasn't all that bad)and he stands for similiar things as his father.The woman who made the ballot papers made them the way she did to be creative.Honestly I think you would have to be pretty stupid not to understand the ballot(unless your a senior citizen)The presidental canidate's name has a arrow leading toward the bubble.This is just becoming one huge mess.

EJ your comment about why I should care proved how niave you are. You and quite a few Americans your age have an attitude that if it's not happening on your doorstep then it doesn't matter. Well it does. Another reason I want Gore is that he has helped the Northern Ireland peace process. Bush probably thinks Ireland's in Africa. And did you say Bush was anti-gun? I think your wrong about that.

Actually EJ, I think you will find that Gore is NOT pro-abortion at all. What he believes is that a woman has a right to choose. It's actually quite quite a different standpoint.

As for the ballots, there is no place for ambiguity when it comes to making your vote. The names where split into two distinct columns, but the punch holes were in a single column. This meant that the second hole actually meant Buchanan, even though reading top to bottom, left to tight the second name was Gore. Arrow or not this WAS ambiguous!!!

Lastly, the ballot papers should be easy to use for anyone. Not just those with clear sight and minds. Seniors enjoy the right to vote too. You last statement is simply AGEIST.

At the end of the day it is extremely suspect that in a State that was clearly marginal and where the governor is a blood relative of one of the candidates something like this should happen.

KJ, in EJs defence he said that Bush was Anti GUN LAWS, not anti gun. Bush is Pro-Gun and Pro-the right to bear arms.

I still think killing an inocent being is wrong.If you don't want a child than you shouldn't have sex.It's as simple as that.After all you mother didn't vote pro-abortion.If she did that you wouldn't be here.And I don't think anyone should bear guns on less you are an officer of some sort.Guns just lead to to many acccidents.And KJ,you have been misinformed about Bush.He cares deeply about other countries and especially education.After all Texas has one of the top 5 school systems in the U.S.A.I should know.I lived there.I agree that you should care who rules America but you have the wrong information about Bush.And RC,the ballots were not as complex as many are saying they are.And the people of Florida had the choice to complain before hand having the sample in the paper.No one did.

EJ, I think the point I trying to make about Bush is not that he's anti other nations but that Gore is more focused on International relations.

As to the abortion thing, your statement about adstainance is rather naive, though morally and religiously probably sound it just isn't realistic. People will have sex and sometimes unwanted pregnancies occur.

Anyway, all that aside, you can not make abortion an illegal act and here's why. What about the woman who is raped, or the girl sexually abused by a family member. Or what about the woman who discovers she has an illness that will kill her and her baby if she attempts to carry to term. All these situations are extremes that would require the woman to make an informed decison about HER body and the small mass of cells inside. Let's face it, up until about 5-8 weeks that's all it is, a mass of cells.

Why should a MAN to tell a WOMAN whether it is right to take control of HER body. Sex is a fact of life, sex outside marraige is ALSO a FACT OF LIFE. Contraception is not always 100% reliable.

Actually, interesting question to you EJ. Should contraception be banned as well?

As for the ballotsd, again. I understand that the papers carried a picture, not a model ballot so it was not easy to get the full idea of what was expected. No one I discussed it with when I nwas in Florida had even seen a picture of the ballot.

But the paper did show an exact copy of the ballot. Besides the ballot came out a week before the elections and you were not in Florida at that time. Being raped is a completely different thing anyway. I think if you are raped and become pregnant that you should give the kid up for adoption not have a abortion. It's not the child's fault.It may be a mass of cells,but those mass of cells are cells of a future child. Like I said before,if you don't want the chance of becoming pregnant then you should pratice abstinance. Sex may be a natural thing but abortions are not. And how can you say Gore is better at handeling International Relations if you never saw Bush in action?

Your replies are a bit naive EJ...especially on the abortion subject...you still haven't said anthing about rape and sexual abuse...this is a very grey area issue...And what the would "should" be like, and what the world really "is" like is two seperate things...and we need to make laws for the real world...

I did reply to the rape matter in my last topic.And why are my replies naive?

IF YOU CAN READ THIS,YOU MUST BE REPUBLICAN.

Opps,sorry...I thought I had seen it but I couldn't find it in there when I read it again..

The reason your solution is naive is because this world is made up of 6 billion other people...and alot of them will not abstain...and you have to make laws for those people too..so this whole "people should abstain from sex if they don't want a child" is a glossed over personal opinion..Not to mention that making a woman, or worse yet, a young girl who's been raped carry the child to term can be a very cruel thing to do...IMHO

Ratcat and Dim for President! Why is Bush pretending that he's won. All of the votes haven't been counted. There are still thousands of overseas votes to come in so he is a bit premature.
Abortion - It should be the individuals choice and not a politicians. EJ you are going on about how it is killing a life when it really isn't as it's just cells but Bush has used the death penalty like it's nothing. What's the difference? Why is it o.k for a politician to kill people who might be innocent but it's wrong for a women to want to terminate an embryo? The answer is the church who still have power in the South. It's hypicritical to carry guns, sentence people to death but still preach about the importance of life.

GUNS- Why do some Americans want guns? Wasn't that law brought in after the American Civil war so that people could defend themselves against armies. The last time I looked America wasn't at war but Bush still wants people to have guns. 40 American kids die everyday by gunshot wounds.

Enviroment- Here is a quote from Bush " It's not pollution that's harming our enviroment, it's the dirty air and water that does it" He doesn't even know what pollution is!!

If Bush is elected President then I'll lose any respect I ever had for America.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. As far as abortion goes killing is killing. If some teenager gets pregnant but doesn't want to raise a child then put it up for adoption, having an abortion is just killing. And the death penalty is needed in this country. Our prison system is a joke, murderers, rapists, thieves, go in and out every day with nothing really being done to them. With the death penalty it puts a little fear in them and it makes them think twice. And people that are put to death are never innocent, they go through so many appeals and trials that if there is any reasonable doubt they are not put to death. Bush may not be the best public speaker, but so what? I could care less if he were deaf, as long as he gets the job done, which he will. Gore couldn't even win his home state, they are the ones who know him best and they didn't give him their vote, shows how much confidence they have in their hometown boy.

I couldn't have said it better myself Jedimaster.

And frankly EJ YOU DIDN'T!

You are making so mad and not on the issues of Gore or Bush, that's just politics but the abortion issue! That's something completely different.

How can you, a 17 year old adolecent boy, say that a woman who has been raped, i.e. BEEN FORCED TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE AGAINST HER WILL, then be forced to endure 9 months of pregnancy and carry a baby she NEVER WANTED and DID NOTHING TO DESERVE.

To then go through the EXTREME pain of child birth with a baby she NEVER WANTED and DID NOTHING TO DESERVE.

Do you have any idea what pregnancy does to the female body and mind? Let me tell you, just as a husband who has one child and is now just undergoimng the 9 month journey to the birth of another, it's not all blooming and buying baby cloths.

There's the morning sickness, the cramps, the back ache, the weight gain, the interuption to certain activities such as working out, the time away from work for the birth. And that's just a normal, uncomplicated pregnancy.

A woman who has been raped would have to face all of these too, plus the emotional recovery from the rape, the impact on any existing relationship. Many rape victims end up losing any relationship they had before the rape.

You expect a woman to also carry a stragers baby to term and deliver it? WAKE UP AND SPELL THE DAMN COFFEE EJ. You have no idea of what you are talking about!

JM,
"And people that are put to death are never innocent, they go through so many appeals and trials that if there is any reasonable doubt they are not put to death."

New DNA evedience has shown that more than a few death row cases has shown that the defendent was innocent...but not that it matter now considering that the defendent ad already been executed..just a fact for you to think about.

And what some people are failing to realize is that they are trying to make these laws to cover a vast array of situations...from carelessness to rape..so the laws are unobjective and intrusive. And it's not as easy as saying "okay, well, raped women can have abortions" because you see, then you would have rape charges being brought up against some poor guy because his girlfriend, who might be underage or just crazy, wants to get an abortion..
And I can also add, that as a child bearing age woman...I do not appreciate some middle aged (mostly male) lawmakers who know nothing about me having that sort of decision making power over my life. That is between me, my partner and my doctor.

OKay...and lastly...I'm wondering if I should close this topic...I'll keep it open if everyone can remain civil...but lets not damage each other here guys. Okay?

Ratcat I totally agree with you about this whole abortion thing. You obviously know what you're talking about and I agree that when a foetus is only a few weeks old it is just a lump of flesh, barely even that. The brain hasn't even developed enough for it to be considered alive, so really having the abortion is not killing the baby, just killing something that would become a baby. Murder is killing another human being. Abortion is destroying an undeveloped foetus, which in my opinion is not a human being.
Nuff said.

Do not even attempt to make me out as a jerk or something because I am pro-life. I HATE rape and everytime I hear about it I get so pissed off I don't know what to do, and if someone I know ever had it happen to them I couldn't control my actions towards the person who did it. But anyway you slice it, a life is a life, and its not the babies fault a woman was raped, two wrongs don't make a right. I respect people who are pro-choice but a child has no choice in how it comes into this world. I have the greatest respect for women who carry children, I love that I can't carry children, but I just couldn't imagine being responible for killing a life that was inside of me.

So RC,if your wife decided she didn't want to go through those awful nine-months and have an abortion you would be for it?As for the raped woman,people have made much harder sacrifices for things and not wanting to go through those nine months to save a child is still wrong.As for the executions,if you are executed you have been charged with a serious offense,therefore should be killed.

Okay..this is getting stupid..EJ, you don't know how hard of a sacrafice that is...you really don't...and it's really crass and really insensitive to bring RC's wife into this..

And just because you're charged with a crime it doesn't mean you committed it...

JM, I see what you're saying I just don't think we can make those choices for other people..



Now...I'm closing this topic.