Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

11/05/03

what is this are you going to tell us then because that is when the movie comes out as well

The Matrix is conected to the Bible in two possible ways eaither Neo himself is God, or that God is does not exsit which is what I believe. Towards the end of The Matrix Neo meets the architect who seems to have painted himself out as God. But in all probabillity he is just the old man who created the AI to take over the human spieces and and allow him to proclaim himself God over those who are trapped in The Matrix. Neo may not be The One so to speak in this case he may just be an embodiment of the human spirit to push those who fight to continue and believe that the war will end. What if all this time the Bible was all just a lie and God himself was the evil which enslaved the human race.

Well Snack721 the A.I was created by the humans.

As for your question Morpheous there are several references in the Matrix about the bible. The whole Trinity thing...the resemblece between Neo and Jesus...and my fave...Smith:

"Near the beginning of the film, Agent Smith drives up in an Audi with the license plate "IS 5416". This appears to be yet another Bible reference -- Isaiah Chapter 54, Verse 16 reads as follows: "Behold, I have created the SMITH that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy." (Capitals are for emphasis). "

Thats form the Matrix trivia. I don't doubt it's true but you never know. If someone knows the Bible...

Omega> Actually the word logos - from greek - means the Word, mostly connected with the biblical Word of God. And there is - I think - a hole lot more to the name of merovingian than just the line of kings. Which connects them to the beginning of the Masonry or Tectonic orders.

there are way to many matrix-bible parallel threads

the matrix might be a direct quote from the book of Armaments. Chapter 3 verses 2-120:....
"...and the lord did grin, and there was a great feast upon the lambs, orangutangs, fruit bats, and breakfast cereals..."
theres more in there but it like totally opened my eyes! wow!






actually idont think theres any connection between the bible and the matrix, its just another thing forum-folk like to over look into...thank ye

it's all summed up nicely right here, take a gander:

http://awesomehouse.com/matrix/parallels.html

Ah Choi says something like: "Man you're my savior(sp). My own personal Jesus Christ!" (or something like that)
He dies and ressurects (sp).
The hole being the savior thing.

But most religions go around the same thing, they just change the names

Yeh but if you notice his conversation (sp) with Choi and his boss it says a lot about the Matrix. I think that one is on pourpose.



Neo brings her back she doesn't come back on her own. True Trinity kisses Neo and he wakes but (it could be a reference to Sleeping beauty just like there are references to Alice in wonderland) but in reality she doesn't do anything to start his heart. But thats my point of view

omega, don't get me wrong. i agree, there's oodles of different directions the matrix references go in. that link just summed up all the parallel's one could find b/w matrix and christianity, one particular reference. i'm sure there's a site pointing out buddhist similarities. and i recognize them all. it's just that, y'know, this thread is specific.

its quite weird

omega, logos is word, logic is an english adaptation of this word, but it also means story
biology- story of life
geology- story of earth.

All right Omega. If indeed you did read the site that Nick provided us.. did you take in anything from it and say "NOPE! That's completly wrong." Can you say that Neo in a Christian Jesus sence and the buddist sence are being applied in the movie in different ways, but not one more than the other? Or are you just completly fixated on what you beleive is true in your mind and not willing to have an open mind.

WHOA! definately a keeper, but mann ur gonna get kicked out. O well u got balls.

Man alive. If you were goin to do it.. at least you should have gotten a lesbian picture.

Man Alive> didnt u hear Ush telling Shady abt this....stop posting these disgusting pictures

Sigh... Prince Johnson and CrazyShady, I do not want to see ANY attachments from you two in future. None at all, they will all be deleted. And if you post inappropriate pics again- having received fair warning from us already- then you will be banned. I hope that is clear.

i dont think the matrix is too connected to the bible.
it only has some of the characters names?
Abel and Cain? has a bunch of other stuf too.

Blue Angel: Have a look at all the numbers, names, situations in M1, M2 and AM, and then you'll see how far down the rabbithole really goes...


~AI

Hey mann Im not the 1 posting nude pics. Y cant I post attachments?

Its not fukkin fair!!

Actually, I would ask YOU the same question.

why do i always show up to these threads after something's been edited? man. i mean, props for the quick trigger finger on ush, but i didn't even get to see what the brouhaha was about.

blue angel: just click on my link.

i for one think there are a ton of religions vested into the matrix trilogy. christianity, being a popular one, probably just tends to get spotted by us more.

Shady... shut up. For the love of all that remains good, sweet and pure in this cynical little trash-globe we call the Earth... shut up.

~AI

go Ikobe its ur b-day!!

i think the matrix is connected to the bible by dots. a complex weaving of dots, if placed in the proper numerical order, will lead you to the book of charley... the lost bible story thats hidden under the vatican. the wakowski bros. know about this lost book of charley and wanted to reveal it only those smart (or high) enough to grasp these concepts. its very subtle indeed but after close and careful examination of the matrix i found this to be true.. just notice certian angles in the movie... when they are measured and divided by pi the sum is equal that of the numbers in the book of charley.

People, lets be realistic. Matrix is Science-fiction movie in which many creators take ideas from.I think you guys have a big imagination which i think is cool but come on who in the right mind think of something like this.

if you mean the dots thing, i think that was humor (and if not, it ought to be). if you mean the bible thing . . . straight from the w.bros mouths, amigo.

Ok. Then I would say that what I have implied to be true. The Wachowski Bros. want to work all possible angles to include all possible crowds and fans across the world. People with different religins. I'm sorry Omega, but it jsut seems that you are leaning too far towards your own point of view on the matter. Just because to you Neo represents more of a budda character in your mind, doesn't mean that Neo could represent Jesus in another mind. All I'm saying is to keep an open mind and not get to caguht up with your pride.

hodgie:



i think you're acting a bit more close-minded here.

nick. are you talking to me or Omega?

all right. but it seems that Omega is being in consistant with his views here. he says that quote yes but, it seems like every time he writes an opinion about this he seeminly goes right towards the buddha= neo. yes, he did write that quote.. but it doesn't mean that i am a little closed minded. just becuase i didnt read that one quote from omega, doesnt't mean i am closed minded. i was just using the information that i got from Omega in this thread. Thats all.

Oh, and on 2nd note, why are you defending Omega? I think he has the intelligence to reply to what i ahve said to him.

Omega is a woman.

haha i didn't know that so i used the proper english form. thanks kes for clarifying that Omega is a women.

omega: you need to specify your gender from now on in your signature. that's about the third or fourth time someone has done that.

hodgie: omega stresses the link between buddha and neo because there IS a strong link between buddha and neo, one that seems to often go overshadowed. not being a big buddha scholar myself, i also tend to focus mainly on the christian parallels.

and i defended her point because her point was right. if you're suggesting that i should ask your permission next time, you're overstepping your limits a bit.

I hate it when ppl do that......give it some kind of religious explanation! That would be very limiting...I think there's more to this than just a simple iconic endeavour

Verity the truth is there are very obvious connections. The biggest on being Smith license plate:

"Agent Smith drives up in an Audi with the license plate "IS 5416". This appears to be yet another Bible reference -- Isaiah Chapter 54, Verse 16 reads as follows: "Behold, I have created the SMITH that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy." (Capitals are for emphasis).

Yeah,yeah,yeah!....I get all that!....I 've read the bible! I t just seems to me that sometimes that's all ppl. relate it to...religion! Religion=limitation and boundaries, to me! Call me crazy...just a personal opinion, and I just feel this movie has many more qualities about it and things to dig out of it than just chapters or quotes, from a man (incorrectly translated, several times) made book! Sorry...just heard the bible references ONE too many times!

I agree! The movie has much more then that!
But they're there! Thou I rarelly see them

Ok.........I try not to look for 'em

well, we're only talking about the movie's religious connection because . . . that's the thread's topic. why would you enter this thread if you didn't wanna see people talk about the bible and the matrix?

and while i grant it's got more connections than just religious, religion is what we're talking about here. and it's clearly there, especially since the w.bros have acknowledged it.

and, IMO, i disagree that religion is limiting.

I guess we're all entitled to disagree....freedom of speech (or writing in this case), right?http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/thumbup.gif

nick. im not askin you to get my permission. i said that omega could fend for HERSELF. and yes, i agree with you on there is a a very firm connection with buddah. but the thing is.. i really don't know anything about what I'm not interested in. therefore, i do not know much about buddah. All i'm sayin is Neo has a connection with any religious aspect you can throw at him, if indeed you have the evidence to support it.

P.S. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I agree Omega. I just put of the multiple definitions for the terms.

I tried to leave out my views on Zionism because this in not the place for that type of talk.

Lets just say I dont agree with the Zionist way of thinking, and how they treat people around the world.

Smart move.

A free gift is not a free gift, if it has string and conditions attached.

I find it funny that in the Matrix its all about choice, but in reality we really dont have a fair choice.

According to the bible(but not limiting to that book), its either:
Heaven or Hell
God or the Devil
Salvation or Damnation
Right or wrong

This does not take into account that Real Life is filled with Heavy Shades Of Grey. Things are not so cut and dry.

Thus it seems this is God's way of saying Its my way or the highway. Do what I say, or I will Kill you. Take it or leave it. Theres no other choices in your life.

I feel that this type of doctrine/thinking is flawed, and it paints God with a nasty brush of mistrust and contempt. It seems God is only nice to us when we are doing what he wants. Not taking into account that we do have feelings and desires of our own, and should not be judged for having them.

IMO: Religion is one of the biggest scams on the planet. We have to many Morpheus types walking around trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives based on some out dated or unproven texts. Alot of worldly issues are not covered in these holy books. And without considering that the doctrine may be wrong, hardcore disciples will put forth this info with unquestioning faith.

They love to make world events fit into their way of thinking. Once that is done they state that is was predicted thousands of years before it happened inorder to give their doctrine credibility.

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"

i fear that you have a misconception on christian faiths. while it's true that many bible-belters like the baptists take a far too literal adherence to the bible, i am not a baptist and so therefore i don't feel that i could properly defend them. and personally, i disagree with them too.

i don't mean to stray from the original topic, but i think i ought to defend catholicism (my own religion), and religion in general. i tried to do this once to an atheist i knew. it was tough. it reminded me (quite appropriately considering the forum we're in) of morpheus' line -- the one about not being about to tell you what the matrix is; you simply have to see it for yourself. to be happy with catholicism, you really have to get into pretty deep and see what's under there.

but first, back to your misconception: god has never killed anyone for not doing it his way. god would certainly like everyone to follow his will -- but not because it's his will, but because it's just good. loving your neighbor, upholding decent values, making the world a better place -- it's a good life if you can do it. people go to hell because they have a free will. if they don't want to live a good life, they don't have to. but certainly don't blame god.

and as for organized religion in general, it's all good. faith is a very good thing, IMO. as for your comment on "telling us how to live our lives" . . . it's difficult for me to explain. no one's telling you what to do. well, no one should. catholicism presents the way we think it ought to be; again, free will and choice comes into play on whether you take it or leave it. the inquisition came at a time when the church was run by corrupt men. a dark page in our history, but history nonetheless.

"It seems God is only nice to us when we are doing what he wants."
in all reality, urot, that couldn't be farther from the truth. it's all about love. but i don't want to preach to you. if you want answers, i think any book by c.s. lewis is a good place to start. but i especially recommend his book, "the screwtape letters." a good, short read.

really quick before anyone mentions it again: we are all, of course, entitled to our opinions. i am in no way trying to impose mine onto any of you. hell, i even have an atheist's quote in my signature.

Nick dont take this in a bad way.

But I will not debate with you over the goodnees or lack thereof of god.

I will let his record speak for him.

http://members.aye.net/~abrupt/house/godkill.html

Look up every example and you will see that the site is not lying.



God is not all about love. Ask yourself this question if god was all about love then where did sin/evil come from?

I bet the first thing that comes to your mind would be satan right??

Well look at these bible scriptures and then rethink your anwser.

John 1 1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

If this is correct then the creator of everything would be God/Jesus.
And if he is the creator of everything , than he also created Evil. If god knows everything and satan dosent , then it would be safe to say that god planted the idea of rebelion in his mind. The same way god planted it in Adam & Eve's mind in the garden.

Gen 1 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Then he says later:

Gen 2 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That was a set up. If god is all knowing and we are not, He knew we were going to eat the fruit.

Now I know you are going to say hey wait a second it was satan that tempted Eve, not God.

Keep this in mind satan dosent know everything like God does. So he's just as in the dark as we are concerning what god does behind the vail.

So you stated before that God is all about Love I disagree. There is a huge contrast between the Old & New testements version Of God.

OT he's a killer God.
NT he's a kinder loving God.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ/God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

If that is true there should be no differance between the OT and NT. But there is and that diff is the tern salvation. As I said before God is saying Its my way or the Hot highway. You have no other choices in life.

Heres an example of what I mean about no other choices. According to the bible. you just cant say to God, You know what Im not going to hell, and I dont want to waste my time in heaven. So ill just go over to " blank" and live out my eternity in peace.

"Blank" (what ever blank is) does not exsist because God didnt want it too. (That is just another example about how god has the upper hand, and uses it to his advantage). So there is really only two choices. heaven or hell. And that is a stacked deck, because god has his way in both instences. Our personal choice is really irrelevant.

So when ppl go around saying Satan is the ultimate evil I just say to myself, wow they dont read there own bible. For if they did They would know that God Is not all good or bad. Hes a mixture of both, just like mankind. So if god is going to judge us for our sins then He should be the first one to go to hell/the lake of fire, because he would be just as guilty of our sins. He created the Sin, judgement, and the penalty. We did not. Humans didnt ask to be placed in this world.

So why did God create humanity into a universe already heavily contaminated with sin?

The human race is not responsible for sin. Sin was ALREADY present in the universe when God created Adam and Eve. Satan and his evil angels had been sinning for some period of time, maybe a very long time, before Adam and Eve were created.

He created us for his enjoyment. To him its seems like one big game.


So is it?

Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."

Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

Or

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"

You be the judge.

See?...This is what I mean...Instead of being a healthy conversation about the movies...it becomes a battle on who knows more about the meanings in the psalms of the bible!! I don't understand it!...The bible was translated into soooo many different languages, which probably weren't even done correctly!...from one of the oldest languages on the planet!...Everyone has their own interpretations of what the bible says, and most of the passages in the book, r taken literally!, which I think should not be!...Read between the lines, and ye shall find the truth...The bible was translated literally, which was definitely a mistake!, aside from gramatical failures!! So relax ppl!! We really know half of the truth, if even that much!! I wouldn't bet my expectations on a poorly translated man written book...http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/cheers.gif

nickjs>I'm impress with your point of view (religion wise of course).
But IMO Christianity is very judgemental
I mean some priest (sp). The priest from were I live didnt baptise (sp) me because my parents didnt have a wedding in church,it was just the legal stuff

This is still a healthy conversation about the movie.

This thread has not went to the crapper yet.

In my 1st post I said what I felt about how the movie connected with real life & the bible.

Then my 2nd post was in responce to nicks post.

Trust me there are no flame wars being started in here.

Its still all good....http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/cheers.gif

Otay!!!

i agree. in fact, this is a pretty good debate. we both seem to be well-versed in our particular POV's. and believe me, i'd much rather have this conversation with someone who knew how to back up their opinions than with someone who just called me an idiot and then posted twenty smileys.

actually, i don't think satan produces evil -- satan's job description is basically ruler of hell. what you do on earth is your choice. if you choose to go to hell, then it's satan's job to punish you. but until you get there, all he can do is tempt. so we're on the same page then when we say satan is NOT responsible for evil on earth.

but man is, and i think that's where we disagree. again, it's all about choice. evil exists not because god created it, but because god created us and we chose it. god gave us free will. therefore, if we chose to act in an evil manner, we have created evil. you can't say that god created evil based on the fact that "god created everything" -- by that same logic, i could say that god invented burritos, and computers, and cars, and the internet. god created us. we took it from there.

i only read a little of that site, urot, because i'll address that in another post. don't want to run on too long. but like verity said, the bible is not meant to be taken literally -- as in, the noah story and the creation story never happened. so god did NOT wipe out all of humanity save noah's family, as that site says he did. the story of noah and the flood parallels a very similar story the pagans had for hundreds of years before the bible was ever written. the story was just reinterpreted and placed in the bible to stress a biblical truth (as many of the stories are) -- a moral, if you will. in this case, the moral is that god provides as he promises.

as for adam and eve . . . like i said, it never happened. the biblical truth it is meant to convey is that god created the world, and he created man in his image, and man was then free to sin if he wanted to. the story isn't meant to be taken for more than that. most catholics that aren't ignorant or bible-thumpers will tell you that. in fact, i learned that in school -- the bible isn't meant to be taken literally. just look at it more closely: there are two creation accounts in the bible, and they disagree with each other in certain areas. furthermore, where were the dinosaurs and cavemen if adam and eve were the first living people? the answer, of course, is that the hebrews didn't know dinosaurs and cavemen existed when they wrote it. they just wanted to get their point across.

much of the old testament is just that, in fact -- stories meant simply to express a moral. granted, much of it is based in truth (moses, and the stories about hebrews enslaved in egypt, etc) -- but for the really outrageous stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

the reason the new testament is so much more different is because
a) it's trying to do something different
b) it was written much later by different people

much of the message of the NT is stressing that god isn't just for hebrews -- he wants to spread his word to all people of all walks of life. that's what jesus was supposed to do, spread that message. in fact, "catholic" means "universal."

i'll grant you present good points, but i refuse to concede that god is not all about love. remember that corny saying, "god is love"? it sounds mushy, but it's true.

and there is an alternative to heaven and hell: purgatory.

kes: what do you mean when you say you're impressed by my religious point of view?
yes, i think christianity can be pretty judgemental. but i can't speak for all of them. i'm a catholic.

Had to do some slicing and dicing to your quote.

I agree that the Bible is filled with story trying to teach a moral lesson.

My point in posting the site was to show that according to the bible God was a killer and ordered his pepole to do wicked things in his name.

It doesnt matter if the stories are true or not, that is inmaterial. I was just addressing the doctine put forth by the bible and its followers.


I agree with you on the point that the NT is trying to show God in a new light. A loving light.

IMO I think god is not that bad. The problem starts when man tries to speak for him.

As I said before God has same trates as man does. For we both know about good and evil.

----------------

I have to run too. I will continue my thoughts later on tonite on this topic.

I mean you really believe it and defended it very well.
It wasn't an insult.

oh, no, i didn't take it as an insult. i just wasn't following what you meant. but i appreciate it.

as for really believing it and defending it well . . . well, if you're going to believe anything, be it catholicism or judaism or atheism, you better really believe it and be able to defend it well . . . otherwise you just look like a fool. faith is a good thing. ignorance isn't.




for as much trouble as the movie dogma got into with the catholic church (i personally thought it was hilarious), chris rock had a very good scene when he talked abou jesus getting pissed off by all the shit that gets carried out in his name -- war, bigotry, hate crimes, televangelism.

well, i guess we'll have to get into that "god as killer" theory later.

Dogma was one of my fav movies.

And as for god being a killer. I think that will be a nice discussion.

all right guys. this is what it all comes down to. If your in any religion or not at all... atheist or catholic or agnostic or non-denominatoinal... I think the line from American History X sums it up the best.. you just have to ask yourself this one question.. "Has anything you've done.. made your life better?" thats all you gotta ask yourlself. If you do that.. you'll be just fine.

oh and guys... The Bible isn't a history book or a bio of jesus.. its simply just a Faith Summary for those who want to believe.. thats all.

which is exactly, as per my point, why it isn't to be taken literally.

*cracks knuckles* ok, in summary, i've taken the "best" excerpts of god's murderous ways from the provided site in an attempt to respond to them. anything in bracket's is the author's additional comments.

"Abraham is certainly willing to do what ever the Lord demands of him, even when God orders him to kill his son. But all turns out Ok when an angel yells really loud to Abraham that it was just a test to see how much he loved God."
-- i hardly see this as a good support. this passage says it itself: god was testing abraham's commitment to his religion. he asked abraham to sacrifice his son to him, and abraham said he would. without telling his son what he has in plan, the two set out to the mountains to offer a sacrifice. his son asks abraham, "where is the lamb?" abraham's famous answer was, "god will provide." then god eventually intervenes in the sacrifice. flash forward hundreds of years later, to jesus' first public appearance. when he walks up to the crowded river, what does john the baptist proclaim at the sight of him? "behold, the lamb of god." so god loved the world enough to give up his own son, but would never ask us to do the same. he just wants to know that we are just as devoted.

"Pharaoh orders all midwifes to strangle new born Jewish children. Of course they refused. Pharaoh then orders them to throw the babies into the river. Ex 1:18,22"
-- ok, but what does that have to do with god being a killer? the enemy of the hebrew people ordered jewish babies to be killed. and this is god's fault?

"Moses kills an Egyptian deliberately for beating an Israelite."
-- this was long before moses began his spiritual career. the bible actually shows that moses was the last person anyone would expect to be sent by god to lead the israelites to freedom. he was, first, raised as an egyptian. he was a sinner, and (as shown here) a murderer. he even had a speech impediment (a stutter). and god chose him because he had an inner strength. after he repented, paid for his sins, and turned his life around, he went back to egypt and the rest is history.

"he could have caused pharaoh to let them go free"
-- the author claims that god didn't need to send harmful plagues on the egyptians when he could have simply changed the pharoah's mind. not true. like i said, god values our free will.

"The Israelites are forced to wander for 40 years in the desert so that the older people would die. Num 14 "
-- now that's just ridiculous. what about elizabeth, mary's cousin, who gave birth to john the baptist long after menopause, simply because she had such a strong faith in god and wanted a child? the same goes for abraham, who was ancient when he had his son. in fact, many of the people in the OT are said to live very long lives after they fulfill god's wishes (i think abraham died well over 150 years old). and as for the 40 years thing. they were sentenced to wander for 40 years because they stopped believing in god. here god is, freeing them from captivity to lead them to a home of their own. but they get sick of walking, so they build a golden calf and start to worship it in hopes that a pagan god will take away their troubles. and here god is, saying, "i'm doing this for you, and you're gonna ***** because you're tired of walking? that's not tired. this is tired." and hence, they wander for 40 years.

"After striving to reach the Promised Land for forty years, Moses and Aaron are denied entry because Moses had struck a rock in anger to obtain water."
-- actually, he wasn't let in because he cursed god right before they got there. he, too, was tired of the walking and failed god's test (again, it's all about commitment). so he was punished for cursing god. he was allowed to see israel, but not enter it.

"All the inhabitants of the country of the hills, and the south of the vale, and the springs and their kings, he left none remaining but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."
-- for this passage, and the following passages that deal with war and slaughter, remember what i said about the bible and taking it literally. it was written by jews. the jews lived in a time when war was life. surely, no army is ever so victorious as to completely demolish EVERY opposing life without suffering a casualty. that part was more for the israelite writers to inspire respect for their ancestors in a time when war is what brought respect. but the wars did happen. god promised them their land, but between his promise and them actually getting there, other pagan cities moved in and refused to leave. the jews saw war as the only negotiation. but as for god being depicted as their general on the front line leading them into war, that's a stretch.

"All the citizens of Jericho, except for a whore and her family. 'And they utterly destroyed all in the city, man and woman, young and old, and ox... with the edge of the sword.'"
-- again, see above. as for the whore being the only person spared, that's because she changed sides and acted as a spy for the israelites.

"All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea while pursuing the Israelites. '... and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.'"
-- again, don't take the bible literally. this was meant to show (like the war passages) that god's people are protected by god and, as the saying goes, "if god is for us, who could stand against us?"

"All the first born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night."
-- yep. moses warned the pharoah for weeks that this would happen if he didn't let the jews go. god doesn't account for wax in anyone's ears.

"Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the surrounding plain, by 'brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.' Gen 19:24. Lot and his family fled."
-- god destroyed the cities of sodom and gomorrah because they were hell on earth. in all the land, he couldn't find ONE innocent soul that was willing to repent. these places were like vegas multiplied by five thousand. the only innocent man he found was lot. so lot's family was warned and allowed to flee. but, for the umpteenth time, remember to take the story with a grain of salt. it's doubtful that god just destroyed a city like that.

"The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. 'And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth; and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.' Gen 7:23"
-- we've already talked about this one not being true.

so, i hope i could clear most of that up.

I'm trying to find the word Matrix on the past two pages.

If you most esteemed gentlemen need to discuss Christinanity as your personal faith, crutch, belief, knowledge etc. maybe another forum???

haha

wait . . . this is a matrix forum?!

holy crap . . .

ah, those were the days . . .

wow.

LOGOS-(Greek) "word", "story", not knowledge

hey i jsut saw matrix 3 last night at the global premiere. it was sooo good. and guess what...i knew what would happen, cos i fully belive that it's based on the bible. some of you guys, i dunno...you know so much stuff and i can see your searching...but you search to find anything contradictory...ive experienced gods provision in my life, no one can tell me differntly, there are so many parallels in the matrix. someone on here said that neo fights to save his people, and jesus didn't, jesus didn't physically fight people yes...but he DID fight to save his people. i dunno what your all saying about buddism and things like that to do with the matrix...where does karma come into it? or reincarnation? i dunno. just think about it. i knwo your all hardcore and things like that but neo died with his arms stretched like he was on a cross. it is done. this means EXACTLY the same thing as "it is finshed as it says in the NIV translation of bible. there are many differnty translations..they HAVENT got it wrong guys, there are many differnt ways to express the same thing thus the reason for varying bible veriosns...read it.

in my humble opinion, i woyuld definatly say the matrix all three draw upon the bible...you guys have all saud it im sure.

Well I saw the final movie and here's how I see the matrix related to the bible. These are just a few thoughts.

First of all when neo sacraficed himself the light that game out of him was without a doubt in the shape of a cross.

One thing that I don't think I saw in any of the replies is, what is the matrix as it relates to the bible. I believe that it's exactly what morpheus says it is in M1. The world that's been pulled over our eyes to blind us from the truth. The matrix is "the lie". That means a lot of things but most importantly it is to keep us from knowing the truth. I've seen a lot of people point to the architect representing God but if he is the father of the matrix then he is the father of lies. Which is a term often used to describe satan.

To keep it short here are some other things I think the characters represent.

Mr.Smith=It seems that in biblical terms Mr.Smith represents sin and how it can infect all of us.

the child=b/c the child is the first thing to appear after smith is gone, she would seem to represent the innocence.

the oracle=not 100% sure but I think she represents God. Although you might think that she also helped create the matrix but I think all she did was give the people in the matrix a choice.

Seraph=Mr.Smith say that he always keeps popping up all over the place so he might be a representation of the holy spirit as he is also the defender of the oracle.

Many of the other character have already been discussed so let me know what you think. I'm new here so go easy.

They are both boring and preachy.

Hey Urine u lamer you ever heard the phrase EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS? god aint responsible for satan and adam and eves actions dumb **** anyway be grateful that you got to experience life prissy prude

Hmmm
Interesting topic...
Neo, symbol of the ONE for all is of ONE and to the ONE shall we all return. In this era of existentialism and projection of self before anything else it is refreshing to get a movie that attempts to provoke a break with tradition. "In my Fathers mansion there are many rooms"...
Be yourself at all times, your chosen path is that which is engrained in you, the essence of your being.
Though it may be different from mine, to the ONE shall we all return eventually.
Link to the Bible alone?
I think that would be doing the ONE an injustice in its limitation to the reality of BEING which is all encompassing, beneficient, loving for all eternity and posterity.
Think about it...

Here is another biblical refrence that I haven't seen anywhere else. The architect said that Neo was the sixth anomaly to come around. In the bible there are six covenants or promises made by God. They are as follows

1.Adamic Covenant
2.Noahic Covenant
3.Abrahamic Covenant
4.Mosaic Covenant
5.Davidic Covenant
6.New Covenant

The new covenant is of couse Jesus the Savior of mankind. This would explain the reason that neo is the sixth anamoly. On a side note some count the seventh covenant to be the return of christ which was also hinted to at the end of M3.

it is hard for me to personally comprehend some of the biblical references, i just can't delve into the story line underlaying the obvious but this is how i can see it from the Matrix Revolutions.

Neo is representative of Jesus Christ for reasons already stated. he was resurrected from the dead as jesus was. the contraversy that Trinity was brought back to life but is not considered to be Christ because Neo brought her back to life much like Jesus did with Lazauris.

Bane (along with Cypher) can be considered Judas for he betrayed the humans and inevitably Neo(Jesus)

Smith is (as the oracle states) the opposite of Neo, he is the negative energy, or the Beast (stated in Revelation) the anti Christ or Satan (who are all basically the same person.) his battle with Neo is the inevitable battle between good and evil.

The architect can be considered God but after reading some of the other forums i am convinced that he is actually more like the Devil, especially with his last lines in Revolutions, his lines were doubting the peace Neo had sacraficed himself to obtain.

The oracle is God for she said her job was to unbalance the equations which the architect had ballanced. this may be considered a bad thing that she could be the devil for doing this but truly she helped the unpluged humans. she also fortold the coming of the One much as God fortold the coming of Jesus

okay, the architect and the Oracle would be more like two faces of one entity, a Yin and Yang themselves...Neo would be Jesus, Smith would be Anti-Christ, but you also have to take the religious connotations to be more than just Christian, there is also Buddhist, Hindu, and Mythology parallels as well...

and nothing regarding davism

Dave> your believer base is kinda small...you should expand to other forums as well...

i just want one follower per continent (well, the 6 main ones) so i can call it a world religion
at the moment, i've covered Europe

I do think depending how someone interprets the story different people can represent different things. Thats why the movies are so brilliant. The W.Brothers have created a story that everyone can connect to in some way. I do think they included a lot of the bible b/c they are smart and the bible has sold more copies then any book ever written. That means a lot of people will connect with the story. Since I'm comparing it to the bible I don't believe that the architect and the oracle are merely yin and yang. If the architect created "the world that is pulled over our eyes" in a biblical since that would make him the devil. I believe when the oracle said she is here to unbalance it what she is really saying is she's there to undo what he does. I think calling smith the devil is too obvious. Jesus never destroyed the devil in the bible. In the bible when jesus died on the cross and it was to destroy the effects of sin. Mr. Smith being the devil just doesn't fit. He wasn't decieving anyone he didn't manipulate anything he just came to destroy. And he did it in a very straight forward manner.

Another thought was that maybe Neo's death and ressurection in the first movie is a symbol of Jesus's baptism before he started his true ministry. Since baptism is a symbol of death and ressurection then they might have made it more litteral. Or they could have simply not known that they were going to make 2 and 3 so they wanted to get their idea across in 1 movie.

After thinking about seraph more I think he just fits into the role of an arch angel. In the bible there were angles called seraphim who stood like gaurdians on either side of Gods throne. Since Seraph protects the oracle it also points to her as God.

Smith would be more of the Antichrist, rather than the devil...the antiChrist takes followers away from the true Christ, whereas Smith copies over the humans...also, the Architect is not necessarily evil, he just cannot grasp choice...he is the god of the programs, whereas the Oracle is the God(dess) of the humans...

agreed

Would there be any connections for that machine who plugged Neo in for the final fight?

Sorry. The Matrix isn't related to the bible at all. It's all superman references.

I mean c'mon! NEO FLIES!

Anyway... I'll leave this one to the bible thumpers.

Maybe Smith represents the sin that takes us over. Neo dies to kill Smith who is in everyone just like Jesus died to destroy the sin in us.

The Architect, who wants the humans to follow a certain path, but gives us choice and who created the world: God, The Oracle, who made the world easier for the rebels and helped destroy Smith/Sin could somehow represent the New Testament:God, The Merovingian, who takes the exiles/sinners into his world and has a club hell(come on): Satan, Neo, who dies to destroy Smith/Sin: Jesus.

its not only Biblical references...the Merovingian is closer to Hades than Lucifer...don't think in a box, enlarge your surroundings...they took many different references from many different places and merged them into one set of movies.

I understand that Jedi, but I was trying to connect it to the bible, because the thread is "How Is The Matrix Connected To The Bible". I needed somebody to fill the roll as Satan.

logos is better translated by study i think .
for mero , Zion (sion , scion ) thats really more than a king line .
they r known to be descended of JC himself , more said in encyclopaedia threads .

ordotempli(DOT)org/priory_of_sion(DOT)htm

i havent heard this before - what is the meaning of the first 5 covenants?

also look at the details in the 'China town alley' on the zion archives websites. the pictures show artifacts relating to Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism...