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I've never understood why in the USA Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Now I'm from the UK and have nothing against Americans I just couldn't understand it. I mean did Bloomsbury think that Americans would not be able to understand the title if it contained the word Philosopher's so they patronise the reader by changing it to Sorcerer's Stone. Why are Americans so special it requires somebody to change the title of the book before the appreciate it. I mean come on, the title has no meaning when it is changed. The author is English and is famous for linking elements of her stories with real life. In the real world The Philosopher's stone is a true item used in Alchemy. Here is evidence:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/collchem.html

I just think it defeats the point of the story and trivialises it. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Its called the philosophers in the UK...? hmmm news to me. Any way im from america and i think i could still understand it if it had the word philosopher in it. Did'nt it come out first in the UK maybe people did not like the way it sound there so when it came out here they changed the name to sorcerer's. But i dont know personaly i like the way sorcerer's stone sounds (no offence or anything) philosopher's stone sounds muggle to me like something from anciant greece.

The word sorcery trivialises the idea of witchraft and wizardry. It was called Philosophers Stone in UK first because it is an English book by an English author. It is also called philosophers stone in the rest of the world except USA. Bloomsbury then changed the name for the USA release so it would be more accessable to the American readers. The movie then followed suit. But to me it is a pointless name change I mean are USA really that different from the rest of the world, I wouldn't think so.

UK and America are almost exactly the same in my opinon except for the different accents. so your guess is as good as mine as why they changed it to sorcerer's stone.

A Philosopher, as the book is called, is an English based word for a brewer of all things good and magical. In America (like it sometimes it here) a Philosopher is a smart person, a studier. That is why they changed the name to Sorceror before the American release-to ease confusion, Actually, in some bookshelves here i have found some new books that have Sorceror on them. The name change was to ease confusion but because the book was already released here and in England when they picked it up it was too late. The movie just followed suit...

That makes sense, Katzmeow, but it still makes me a little mad that they changed it..

well um i think sorcerers stone sounds better. philosopher i always thought was someone who wrote literature or studied rocks or soemthing. i think sorcerers sounds more magical to me. but us americans have no right to change the authors original work unless translated for us to understand it.

email them and ask them why

i don't think sorcerer sounds right...i completely agree wiv katzmeow, i cudn't have said it better myself!! she's got it spot on...

yeah i agree 2.... i mean the book was made in england so y change the name 4 americans (no effence)

"Its called the philosophers in the UK...? hmmm news to me. Any way im from america and i think i could still understand it if it had the word philosopher in it. Did'nt it come out first in the UK maybe people did not like the way it sound there so when it came out here they changed the name to sorcerer's. But i dont know personaly i like the way sorcerer's stone sounds (no offence or anything) philosopher's stone sounds muggle to me like something from anciant greece."

I agree with you on that one but yes it is wierd that they changed it...i dont know why i mean the 5th book is a lot more english (language wise) than the other books and i understood it fine and im from the US so it kind of strikes me as a little offensive sort of. but whatever the book overall in both countries was the same and it rocked!

It is probably cos the legend of the Philosopher's Stone is an English legend. nobody out of the uk really knows about it, but it still sux cos every other country is philosophers, why did scholastic have to change it?

i dont get it eitha i think the English one is betta it sounds right

From what I can tell the term Philosopher's Stone, referring to a device which can turn base metals into gold and extend life, goes back as far as the middle ages in England. However, translating for other European languages it can be found all over Europe at the same time and ultimately originates in ancient Greece.
The term is defined a considerable time before the first European colonisation of North America and should thus be as much a part of American cultural heritage as as it is of English cultural heritage; considering the root commonality in the most part.
However, not many people in England had ever heard of the Philosopher's Stone either, before Ms Rowling's efforts. If you consider the facts that the popularity of the books built up over a period of time in England and that the American publisher paid a great deal of money for the American rights perhaps it becomes a little clearer that they wanted a more rapid return on their considerable investment and thus chose a new title over the original which may indeed have slowed the initial take up in England due to confusion.
Of course we don't know if the book would have become more popular, more quickly in England with the word sourcerer's in the title but it wouldn't have mattered quite so much since the initial British publisher didn't pay anywhere near the sum for the publishing rights.
The question as to whether the publisher should have changed the title under any circumstances, in view of the legend on which the book draws being about the Philosopher's Stone, is quite another matter, for it means that all mention of the legend within the book is rendered wholly fictional.
I get the impression from the way JK writes that she likes to integrate reality and fiction in her work, she often draws on real world sources, and as such I think that the publisher can be said to have taken something from the reader that JK had chosen to give them; a connection between the real world legend of the Philosopher's Stone and her book of the same name.
This, I find annoying, doubly so in view of the fact that it was so done with the simple aim of making a faster buck!

good points Katzmeow and Phoenix. I agree with you both. I too thought that Philosopher was in Philosophy as in to be studying stuff and then it makes sense for the UK to know what it meant due to their legend..however the rest of the world wouldn't know about it.

Probably because in the USA, a philospher is a wise person, yet they do not do magic. A Sorcerer does magic. In the UK, a philosopher does magic.

Hey SiriusBlackRIP, I don't get it either, I mean this is the age of the internet right? And reality TV are booming, so why did the American publishers changed it's name? I guess they probably thought maybe Bloomsbury would sell the British book in the American market. Yeah, this makes perfect sense, if you want to know anything then all you have to do is to get in any of the search engine, type the stuff that your looking for, then click and wala all you need to know is in front of your eyes. So the reason "American children are not familier with the term Philosopher's Stone" seems a very lame execuse indeed.

You are correct jennyanderson. If I lived in America my intelligence would have been very much insulted by Bloomsbury.

i totally agree - socerer's stone sumhow trivialises the whole thing - philosopher's is better...they shldn't hv changed it....

It was scholastic which changed the title, not bloomsbury

No, a philosopher is traditionally a great thinker, literature, science, art, etc. NOT magic, although it did seem like magic to many people

i think it should have been called socerers stone everywhere.. just cause its like wizard**socerer they kind of go hand in hand... in my opinion

It should really have been called "Philosopher's" everywhere - Scholastic had no right to change J K Rowling's choice of title

It's not a question of intelligence on either side. There are slight distinctions between the meanings of the words between the two countries. Yes, they both speak "english", but the two words have very different connotations. One - in England - implies magic, the other, a deep thinker. The names were likely changed to country-specific definitions. When she titled the books, she likely titled them for fitting meanings, not words.

In America, a "philosopher" is a deep thinker. That said, it doesn't make sense to say "Harry Potter and the Thinker's Stone".. Likewise, "sorcorer" has the intended magical connotation needed: "HP and the Magician's Stone" - more fitting. Nothing at all to do with a difference in intelligence, or insult, just each country's specific semantical meaning.

Nothing to get offended about

Actually, I understand that 'philosopher' is 'deep thinker' in American English, but isnt that exactly what Flamel is? He may be a wizard, but no ordinary wizard could create that. He's like an Albert Einstein of the wizardnig world. Albert Einstein=philosoper therefore Flamel should be a philosopher too.

I was quite mad too when they changed the name. And what's the with pics on all the American books? They're .... ugly!

Phoenix, thx for clearing up the Bloomsbury/Scholastic thing. I was about to stick up for my Canadian publisher!

i agree completely with onceasalways!!!!!!! where in washington? im from their to!

Hey, maybe they just wanted to make americans feel special. I am one, u see :-D. I mean we usually get what we want, being the richest country in the world. I mean Bill Gates alone usually has more money than half the world's countries do. So why not make it so we make more money? Its the way most people who live here are. It's all about the money, so if you want to make money, you have to make it understandable. I would say 1% of americans knew that philosophers could do magic. Only if you are truely into fantasy. And 1% of a population is not enough money for them. Thats the way I see it anyway...

There actually is some sort of Philosopher's Stone that people look for I think, that's supposed to make you immortal and turn everything to gold and all. So the Stone is actually based upon a "real" Philosopher's Stone, which makes it even more stupid that they changed it to Sorcerer for us lovely Americans. And on top of that, there's the chapter pictures, big font, and they've changed things from "mum" to the order of the words. Crazy editors.

What the crap?? ok you guys are being kinda dumb about this i mean, im from the US but the movie is still the same right? and the story is still the same then why should it matter????

Poeple in america think every1 in england know's what the philosaphers stone is, the legend and all, i had no idea about it till i came on the net. I thought it was a great thinker too. I doubt hardly any kid in england no what the real philoserphers stone is but they dont really care. And it matter because its insulting to change her work to make it sutible for americans when it is english. Changeing mum to mom was just plain dumb

Tell me about it, it totally sucks the British out of it. Face it, the books ARE British. Stupid American publishers need to realise that. Like the word snog, right? When you say snog, you know it means kiss, but it's more funny and slang. But translate it to American, it's just kiss. Which could mean passionate, could mean a peck, could mean slobby...get my drift?

Brunette beauty, I'd honestly expect you to be a blonde. It may not matter to you, the little details, but to us they're the greatest books of all time, and it matters. (Question: is the movie called Socerer's Stone or Philosopher's? I never really noticed.)

And Antaraka, is it just me or do you seem quite obnoxious to be living in a developed country? I mean sure, the US is great and all rich, but that's no reason to change the name. Seriously, to me, it seems like sheer stupidity. Is it that American children won't understand it due to their limited vocabulary? Becuz as Luna said, lots of other countries don't really know what a philosopher is. No reason to change the title. Just buy a friggin dictionary.

I didn't know snog meant kiss...and wtf is slobby is that a kiss too?
And someone just said English kids didn't know what Philosopher's Stone was either...

If I read 'I went over and gave my mum a snog' I would think it's like a pet or something

As this is a topic that springs up all the time, I believe I will note this...

no sorry the books are not british they are scottish !!!!!!!!!!

they were written in a cafe in the capital of SCOTLAND! EDINBURGH!!!

so get it right! and it is not right being called sorcerer's stone as it is a complete diffrent term from ours oh come on!!!

SCOTLAND RULES SO IF YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT JK. ROWLING AT LEAST CALL TE BOOKS SCOTTISH!!!!!!!

YOU WOULD SNOG (FRENCH KISS) YOUR MUM???

SICKKO!!!!!!!!

YOU DONT NEED TO ACT SO THICK!!!!!!!

hang on, is there a harry potter film in america, if there is, do they say sorceror or philosophers stone in it?

I learned of the alchemical myth of the Philosopher's Stone when I was seven from the Alchemist's Cat by Robin Jarvis.

Since the socialist destroyed the education system that had been the best produced by our species, Britiain is now one of the most poorly educated nations in the western world, so most children nowadays would not know what an ordinary stone is.

ummm maybe they changed the name because philosophers, by definition, don't have magic powers and they didn't wanna get sued for false advertising. GO AMERICA THE LAND ON LAW SUITS!!!! (i can't wait for my opportunity to sue someone so i can afford to go to cambridge!)

Well that's you.

Greek girl. Snog does NOT mean French kiss. It means "kiss" but in slang. Think about it, in OotP it says Kreacher was snogging the pair of pants. Unless you've found some way to tongue-kiss some trousers, please have the courtesy to realise that you are wrong.

The books may be written in Scotland, however they are still BRITISH. Hogwarts is in GREAT BRITIAN. Get used to it. Scotland doesn't rule, it's barely noticed. Don't get conceited.

I still don't know why they would change the name. It's dumb no matter what the reason.

Linkalicious, you're not going to get into Cambridge. To go to Cambridge you have to be SMART. You shouldn't have to sue someone in order to get money for it, if you were TRULY smart, you'd be able to get a scholarship. But anyway....

it's called a joke azyne. Apparently they don't teach sarcasm in Canada or should I say America Jr. And don't talk crap on Scotland because compared to Canada...Scotland does in fact rule. And they changed the name for marketing reasons....and those reasons are dumb to only you...not the people in the U.S. who are making millions of dollars off these books. Don't come into this forum and stir up a hornets nest because your likely to get stung.

way to put it linkalicious..... to the guy that started this thread, by saying 'no ofense to the americans' and 'why do they have to be so special' and things like that, you're just asking for trouble. it's a minor thing.... though i agree its a marketing reason, i'm thinkin that maybe the fact that here, at least for me, when i hear the word philosopher i think of like socrates or some ancient greek guy not magic or anything. anyways its not that big of a deal either way so don't go insulting people for something u said urself u don't understand

can sum 1 answer me
is there a harry potter film in america, if there is, do they say sorceror or philosophers stone in it?
or

its true wat siriusblackRIP said, the philosophers stone really does exist and it gives j.k.rowlings books a scence of real atmosphere. and i prefer philosophers stone, i dunno if i was american id probably like sorcerers stone. but since no one has said one exists i think dat makes the title more 'muggle' ,
not causing any offence.btw.

I like the fact that there is supposed to be a Philosopher's Stone and wish that they would just keep the books the same for all us stupid Americans. I mean, if you look at a list of differences between British and US editions there are the most pointless little one word changes. I really wish they would just leave them alone.
Differences between versions: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/help.html#british

the Harry Potter film was written and produced by Americans, they just did the right thing by using U.K. actors and actesses because that's how the book was written. It's called the sorcerer's stone just like the American version of the book... My question is... what was the name of the movie that was played in the U.K. Was it Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone? or was it Sorcerer's Stone? I didn't think Warner Bros. would produce it under 2 different names....

I'm pretty sure it was Philosopher's Stone in the UK but I wouldn't exactly know. Did they change it every time they talked about the Stone in the movie though? That would get a little complicated.

I'm positive that they say Philosopher's Stone DURING the movie. The reason I haven't been answering the question is because I'm too lazy to go downstairs and check.*30 seconds later* Yup, it's called Philosopher's Stone.







All is well.

As my friend and I say, it's ok if you get two of the same present because then you have one for each side of your room!

I just can't get over how pointless it is to change the title of a book in one country from what the author made it. It just doesn't make any sense, and I like things to make sense. I dunno...

I think sorcerer's stone is better because harry potter has to do with wizards and what not. But i don't like how they make it different for America, it should be 1 or the other

I thought Scotland became a part of England in like the 18th century or somethin.

Here in South Africa it's also called the Philosopher's stone.....

Scotland isn't a part of enlgand. Do u mean great britain? This is about the whole "snog" thing. Snog is french kissing i thougth every1 knew that is it some english thing? I dunno i think americans say "making out"
And the person who said it couldn;t be french kissing cuz kreacher snogged sum socks. Well thats was what SIRIUS said. I have often said that so and so kisses so and so's ass but i dont really mean it literaly. And yea warners brp's did the right thing but j.k rowling would let them do the film unless they used an all english cast . The book is set in britain so should use british phrases like a book set in france would use french phrases but to then translate it into enlgish would really tupid

so in the movie in america, they say philosophers stone?

no they say sorceras stone

FYI to the non-american's in this forum. I don't think 1 person in all of the country uses the word snog. We have lovely role models like nelly and the rest of the nig parade, so we use "mac'in on dem bit.chez" and stupid crap like that. G i love the american version of the English language

Scholastic's editors took too many liberties with JK's books. They changed too many things. In every other translation, it is Philosopher's Stone, and it shouldn't have been changed in America. And, whoever it was who said 'americans are making more money' on page two, why is that something to be PROUD of?? Half the world's starving, and your proud of the fact that america can waste more money on idiotic luxuries?

where do you get off making a comment like that? Do you honestly think the name change had any significant effect on the number of books sold in the United States? And don't you dare go spouting off about american luxuries because they are the exact same luxuries that you enjoy. (the internet, a car, a home, food, an education.) America does more for that 1/2 of the world that is starving than any other country in the world. In fact i'm willing to wager that the U.S. does more than any 2 European countries combined...Don't go assuming that because 5,000 people in the US are millionaires, that the other 300 million are that much better off. and please research before you enter political and economic debates.

i know y.......i don't know really wether dis az bn said but JK agree b'cos it was her 1st book, so she agree cos she was flatted dat they were even publishen her book!!!!!!

GO Linkalicious!!!

And I can understand alot of the changes because americans wouldn't understand alot of the shit they changed. I checked out that site that shows the differences and though I think a few are stupid I beleive most are the changes are good, because it still has a Brtish feel and americans can understand wtf it's talking about.

Yes, but Jane Eyre, or A Tale of Two Cities, or Pride and Prejudice haven't had their words rewritten for the americans, why should JK's?

I don't think those author's were willing to let Americans make any changes to their work. JK on the other hand probably was very open to new ideas and suggestions when she wrote the 1st book. I'm not exactly sure, but i think you'll find that there are fewer and fewer differences between the American version and the United Kingdom versions as the story moves on from book 2 to book 5.

I think you'll find that pheonix was repeating wat some1 else said on page two (like she said) Some person on page two said tht america changed it to make money and braggin about how rich america was and about how every thing was money. Basicly is was a horse load of dung. And what does it matter which country does most for charity. Most people in britain would rather we didn't give so much money to other countrys and let in asilam seekers and just delt with our own 1st and im sure some americans think the same. Britain might do alot but i no i dont. I think ive done a few charity things at school but nothign major. Ild hate it if people talked about things britain had done like i personaly had done them. I pride myself on being diferent then every1 else. Its all 1 world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O yea about harry potter ebing translated for americans. Alot of the books i read are from american but because there are alot of american t.v programs u get use to the slang words. I understand transalting them so u can understand them but its the stupid little things like changeing Mum to Mom. That was unnecesary. Im sure reading some english slang isn't nearly as hard as reading bloody shakespear *god i hate him!*

even in the american verisons didn't they use the word "mum" and not mom?

I have not read the american version but soem 1 told me they changed "mum to "mom"

i'm at work so i can't check in my books and even when i am at home with my books, i'm too lazy to go shifting through pages in order to find an example. Maybe its just Rupert's voice playing over in my head from the movies.

Is any one gonna answer me?

i'm reading OotP over right now and it says mum in the American version. Not quite sure about the SS/PS.

and Weegie what WAS your question?

isn't dat ur answer?!

yea, there are some words in the US that mean differently than in the UK.

so if they say sorcerors in america but philosophers here, in the movie then did they film it twice for the different places?

Well i got a pirate copy of the film and its american and they say sorcerous. And i have the proper dvd and they say philosiphers. They both look exactly the same and the talking matches the lips but the seance looks the same so ur guess is as good as mine

The copy of the movie I have, a normal tape, they say Philosopher's.


Yes, who knows. All we can say is that it was stupid to change the name in the first place.

It's just a book, get over it.

i think we're talking about the movie

Ok, It's just a movie, get over it.

"ah, whats in a name? a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.."

bumping

I completely agree with this post.