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I've seen T1 and T2 I don't know how many times but I seem to miss something. I haven't seen T3 yet, but from what I've heard the quiestion I'm about to ask here cannot be answered from T3 ... I hope someone can explain this to me ... here we go ...

From what I have studied from physics and stuff the present always occurs before the future, right? So how can the future wars depend on the unfortunate accident of the T-101 in the T1 movie? I mean, the future depens on tha investigation of the chip and arm left behind by the T-101, right? So, if the Skynet super computer depends on 2 single parts from the future for it to be ever made and then to destroy mankind ... how can this history even work? Have I missed something?

The supercomputer is constructed thanks to the studie of those two parts by that black dude. So ... how can this black dude build a future (or destroy it hehe) thanks to 2 parts from this very same future?

If another future that didn't depend on those 2 parts sent back the T-101 then it's ok, but now the future from when they send back the T-101 depends on that this very same T-101 gets squeshed and leaves the arm and that chip ...

Can someone help me out here? I have it hard to belive that the Terminator series depends on this little technicalaty ...

In the comic books man developed skynet and after the first machine came back and left the chip behind it changed the way skynet was developed and just sped the process and resulted in more advanced machines in the future because they already had a bases to build from which explained the t-1000, and connor had to send back another machine to originally search out and destroy the chips but also was programmed with the objective to keep connor safe in the past incase skynet got wind and sent a terminator back, and skynet did because at first the resistance was near destryong skynet but after the arm and head chip was left behind and modern day man was able to create a more threatning machines which led to even more advances in the machines technology in the future which the resistance could not cobat, so skynet sent a machine to kill connor as a child this time not because he was a threat as a resistance leader because he wasnt, for the machines were near winning after having more adnvaces, but instead to kill connor as a child so he would never be able to send a machine back to destroy the chip and arm from ever existing............I know it wasnt this way in the movie but it did in the comics and when you introduce pysics into fiction your usually screwed

So you mean that this is the same timeline? Everything was still going to happen but on the first turn arround the black dude developed everything without the arm and chip ... the super computer got it self agknowligment and started the war ... the machines are neraly loosing and send back the T-101 to kill Sara from the year 2029 I think it was ... unluckely for the resistance the destroyed terminator T-101 left behind an arm and chip that speeds up the development, the super computer is buildt even earlier and the machines that send back the first T-101 get even more advanced and start to win the war ... is that it?

yeah pretty much, i mean this is all from the comics ive read, the first time around dawson or disen what ever the black dudes name is only partially participated in the creation of skynet. and yeah finding the arm and chip just sped the process up and gave the machines more advanced technology, But connor did suceed in his attempt to get the arm and chip destroyed, but in the process alot of knowledge he learned was erased from his memory and they still almost loose the battle, i know this has nothing to do with what you wanted to know i just think the comics have better story than the movie but cameron did a good job i mean theres gonns be holes here and there in any movie and that one was a big one seeing how they never covered or talked about it in any of the movies

bottom line: c terminator3. it is sure a good movie( now dont start saying stuff, just let him c it and then lets c what he says)

yeah mallorca go see it tell me what you think, i hated it but tell me what you think after you see it

I am so gonna see it ... jsut didn't know about this part ... jsut knew that I had to miss something in my theory. The people that did the Terminator movies just couldn't be that dumb ...

But T3 ... hell yeah I'm gonna see ... I'll keep you posted ...

Thank you ... and finally I got a logical answer to my question!!!

yeah im sure the writers just felt there were some things that diddnt need to be given devoted scree time

People have been speculating on these issues for nearly twenty years now. It's not necesarily a mistake - it's present in every single time travel story because of the built-in paradox that comes with the genre. How did Marty McFly in Back to the Future gets his parents together so they would eventually marry before he was born? It's the same principle: you're not supposed to sit there and agonize about it too much, you'll just get a headache.

Try to think of it as separate timelines:
The original timeline, I suppose, would've been that Sarah gets impregnated by another man unknown to us, thus eventually giving birth to John, who then sends back Kyle Reese to protect her in the year 2029. A tidbit of trivia for you; try and recall the events leading up to why Sarah Connor ended up at TechNoir (the nightclub) in the first Terminator.

a) A man left a message on her answering machine apologizing that they couldn't go on their date tonight, and that he'd call her in a day or two.
b) This indicates that Sarah was probably either seeing him or beginning the stages of romance with the man, so from the original timeline when Arnold isn't sent back he might've even been the anonymous father of John.

So let's say this happens; Sarah gives birth to John and he becomes a great military leader. The humans have nearly won the war when Skynet fights dirty and sends the terminator back through time to 1984, before John was even born. Therefore this creates a rupture in the spectrum and ultimately a new timeline: before Sarah has a chance to meet any men the machine is after her, and Reese swoops in to protect and eventually sleep with her. He becomes John's father, and things go from there.

It sort of plays with the main underlying theme of the movie that "there is no fate but what we make."

yeah Mallorca ive asked the same question for some time. Because its an impossibility for reese to be johns original father. Reese could not have been there on the original time around because he's from the future. People ive spoken to just say oh well sarah does get pregnant in 1984 just by some other guy and then when john sent reese back she got pregnant with him instead. That made sense for about a minute untill i used my brain, because if john had two seperate fathers on two different timeles he would be two different people who end up becomming the same man and having the same future. whic i guess goes back to fate like the NO fate but what we make kind of thing. I have enver found a clear answer on that question, i mean in the comic that was based around that story it was john himself who came back to protect his mom and dude could you imagine being your own dad thats just a brain anneurism waiting to happen

Those two creation paradoxes are are headache material alright. They`re only explainable with the multiple timeline theory. Where as soon as they arrive in the past they create an alternate timeline.

It would have been interesting to see how things happened in the original timeline. Seeing as how John doesn`t seem to change a great deal from the changes, he must take a lot more of his makeup from his mother than his father.

Now that I think about it, there`s some more messing about that`s happened.

If we take for granted that each traveller from the future has altered the future and created a new timeline there are about 4 versions of John (from the change of events in all three films i.e. John`s father changing, Cyberdyne being blown up).
But.. Seeing as Judgement Day`s date has moved back and forward. The odds of Kyle Reese`s parents being the same two survivors of a war that happens at at least three different dates (the unknown original date, 1997 and 2003) are extremely unlikely. So we have about three different versions of Kyle Reese as well... It`s enough to make a perfectly sane person crazy.

What came first ... the comics or the movie? Because this stupid thing about two different dads ... well I can just see a whole lot of doctors laughing their pants of hehehehe In the movies why didn't they send back Johnny boy? Why didn't they make more of a Back to the future but this time John doesn't get in they way of the ****i ****i ...

Well speculations ...

Another thing, those theories about different timelines ... I just can accept them that easy. I mean if you go back in time, creating this alternate timeline and change stuff, well the original timeline won't exist anymore, right? More physics of course ... until we build a real timemachine we won't no diddley squad, will we?

there was a terminator series before the movie it was only a four issiue series and cameron elborated a great deal on it

aaaaaaaaaaaah oki ... well anyway ... still having problem with the whole sending the father back before you are even born thing ...

It's a time travel paradox. Stop stressing about it so much, you'll get a hernia. You're not supposed to get it, because it's impossible.

yeah i already got a hernia from it, i sat there thinking about some of the terminator faults and tried to figure out hawkins basic theory on pyhsics and i all i know is that an hour after contemplating all that the left side of my body diddnt work, until i traveled back in time and slapped myself in the head to stop thinking to hard about it

i would probly par take in this discussion but u guys just r writing way to much to read u must really know ur terminator movies nice work

On the timelines, I think the timelines are like train tracks.

If you make changes it doesnt eradicate the original timeline, you`ve just switched to another track, while the original goes on in some other reality. (or maybe it doesnt! it is just a theory.)

It makes more sense than a single timeline theory. With one timeline the paradoxes are pretty hard to explain.

well past present and future are all different timelines just on the same long strecth highway, and ounce you change one of the three you get some swurves and turns in your highway, by now the terminator highway is a crazy eight on acid

ok i read all your feedback and i just had to add on too. Here is what i think of the timeline in this case.

In the untainted timeline, sarah conner is a young girl living in california dating working whatever much like todays society many have a kid with a man/boy who will not be around to be the kids active father. I belive sarah has a kid with a guy some regular guy whatever she gets pregnant has a kid, after thinking of what to name him she names him john, john is a common name and its not an unheard of name so what ever the case maybe, sarah would name him john. All this is a given sarah will probably get pregnant have a kid odds are the kid gets the name john, even subconsiously perhaps the name john plays in her head, i know sometimes i wonder what to name my future kid and think of names too i am sure some of u do too. Ok remeber this is the "untainted time line"

now the tainted time line:
Kyle and terminator arnie are sent back from the future, situtations change, instead sarah gets pregnant with kyles kid, kyle tells her about the great john conner, as i said the name john is common and a "good name" to sarah, she thinks and realises to name him john that does not mean if kyle wasnt sent back to tell her about john she would not have named him john. I hope u all follow me here.

Also one of u guys said in the timelines john would have been 2 diffrent men because in the untainted time line the father is not kyle yet how can kyle get sent back to be the father if the first time line existed etc, yes brain freeze. But,
this is what i think logically. In the untainted time line sarah has a kid, its fated he gets the name john, man invents skynet and skynet blows up the planet basically the humans survive etc. Sarah conner is a strong willed person, she raises her kid to be strong, not depending on a man to fend for ones self to make your own descisions etc , teaching john all this thus contributing to john as a person who will go on to be the military leader, this is because of sarahs personality in raising him that way.
In the untainted timeline sarah has been told about john as a leader, she conciously raises him to be that leader etc. The 2 times lines have diffrent characters but the core is the same know what i mean. The key is sarah raising john that way because she is that way.

Thats my 2 cents

how about sarah gets pregnant with some unknown guy, and then later in the future john send reese back to protect his mother, and he gets her pregnant instead of some unkown guy, i mean hows that hard to understand it wouldnt change anything in eigther times except john is now reeses son, i mean john might end up being older than kyle but still it makes sense

and when kyle gets her pregnant thats why she names him john because hes told her so much about whats going to happen and thats why she teaches him how to fight and everything she knows about machines which gives john knowledge not many people have after judgment day which is why he would become leader

Bad banana is right, it really is not worth trying to bend your head around the impossible logic of it- like most stuff in sci fi, it makes no SCIENTIFIC sense, just go with the flow. Time travel is ALWAYS the sci-fi thing with no logic. I mean, the phenomenon of the impossibility of sci-fi time travel was being parodied by Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy over 25 years ago! These logicless temporal thingies in sci-fi are a cliche- it does not matter. The logic of it is secondary to the plot created with it.

But there was never any other guy- Reese was always John's father. Skynet always effectively invented itself when it sent the first Terminator back. There is no 'untainted' or 'first time' timeline, it is a time loop that creates itself. Yes, that is impossible. No, it does not matter.

well,i think that the past 'n future just keep repeating
and that the past present and future are in different dimensions,becouse if you are in the future,and someone changes the past,you and nothing around you is just going to "pop" and change,but rather that the future will change in the future of the past dimension,where the change was made

Always remember the 'flux capacitor'.

what a 'flux capacitor'?

a flux capacitor is what makes time travel possible. Dont you remeber when doc brown slipped of the toilet while hanging the picture and he got a vision ..of the flux capacitor

In other words, the most vital aspect of the Back to the Future series, which is what made time travel in the Delorean possible.

Yes.. You won`t get far if you can`t capacitate flux.

yeah with a delorean, some plutoniam and a Y shaped peice of plastic with 5 syllables any one can travel through time and you can even keep your clothes on

at 88 miles an hour yes u can. i love that movie too heh. but ok thats for a diffrent thread.

it's like the chicken or egg thing and the who came before go thing....we think in terms of caueal connection that one thing must preceed another in order to cause that thing or effect. I think it's like a snail shell and when changed another path rises from thr first. i think first time around, kye was not his father, he became his father becaue he had to protect her not the other way around. in out time line, it is evident that the even already had happended. and james cameron is awar of the confusion and mentions it when sarah says, your are talking about what i'm going to do in the future in the past tense and it's driving me crazy.

thats what i feel too that john conner was to be born regardless of whom father him, but some have said kyle is always to be johns father, that its an endless loop kyle was to always come back to father john. So anyways no i am not gonna think about it anymore, brain hurts!

i agree with the first, it's the mother that is important, not the father

Everyone's right!!

Originally, back in the good old days, when nobody knew the words 'sequel' 'cash-cow' 'dead horse' Kyle had to be sent back to become John's father, and the T-800 had to be sent back to be destroyed to usher in the invention of SkyNet... the future would not exist if these things didn't happen... the future is not set, but (in order to believe any of this) you have to be stronger than you imagine you can be... it would be impossible for the future to exist, but it is already impossible for that future to exist, because it didnt already exist in the past... impossible...

then, someone went back in time and invented the term 'sequel' and T2 was born from this discovery, and had to go on and try to explain how the future is not set, and that we have no fate but that which we make for ourselves... things were changed, time-lines altered, and the money poured in...

then someone went back in time again, and invented the term 'cash-cow' and lo, T3 was begat from this new improved alteration of the original term 'sequel'... the invention of the Brewster Dad and daughter, the pre-T2 orgy fest in Cripkey's basement, the coincidence/fate thing still reasonably solid, and on top of that, a hot female cyborg cyborg-killing machine!! WOW!! Now that the future is so unset and unsettled, the producers/directors of T3 waste no time with story and character building, but just race thru the movie like a runaway weird-crane vehicle or remote-controlled cop car, until in the end, we realize that the Judgement Day warned about in the original, untainted T1 was, in fact, inevitable... the future was set, fate can't be avoided, because, after all, it is FATE, after all...

which unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your view, will lead to the powers that be once more stepping back in time, to build on the same old idea of the 'cash-cow' Terminator franchise, resulting in yet another alteration/aberration of the phrase... I give you: T4:'dead horse'



this from a guy who wrote a T4 himself... yikes!

i dont agree with u fully. ya i agree the terminator just completed the story 100 percent but lemme tell ya i wouldnt b writing in this forum if it werent for t2 even t3. coz those 2 movies made me stronger fanz n i m sure every1 agrees with me

shorter posts alic... I only got as far as 'I dont' before I stopped reading, because you use too many words

? 1 post is enough u r getting on me fuc!in nerves.

1 post ?? what? too many words... shorter please fuc!in isnt a word, spell check please

i guess u cant understand then. i give up

you're the one who cant understand more than 2 words... just making a point and making it easy on you, thats all