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Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps
Started by: The_Tempest

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The_Tempest
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Registered: Sep 2012
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Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps

Which faction has been the more effective and more entertaining baddies? Consider each from faceless mook to vaunted leadership and its highest and lowest moments.

****Each faction as it is portrayed in its parent series and the series' canon tie-in works.

Last edited by The_Tempest on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 05:14 PM

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 05:11 PM
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Beniboybling
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I feel as if droid armies have posed more of threat to protags that the Stormtroopers, B1s and B2s in sheer overwhelming numbers, Droidekas frequently pin Jedi down and more deadly models like Magnaguards and Commando droids often pose a real challenge. Stormtroopers seem generally incompetent and quickly overwhelmed however.

A step up from that the droid commanders > Imperial commanders. We see a tactical commander outsmart and almost defeat Kenobi in Liberty on Ryloth, and guys like Admiral Trench and General Kalani are just as formidable as whatever that guy from Imperial Intelligence is called.

A step up from that, Ventress, Dooku and Sidious put the Inquisitors to shame. Even Grievous is more badass and more effective than them.

TCW wins imo.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 07:59 PM
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Zenwolf
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This isn't really fair given that as of Rebels there isn't really a war going on, so we haven't really seen much of the Empire at all...as all they are doing is fighting a Rebel Cell which is surrounding the main characters.

So of course the Seps look better, because they are engaged in a full war here where either sides can have problems and death. With Rebels....that isn't so yet until the Rebellion is fully there which I don't really expect to come around until like near the end of the series.

So the Empire is gonna look much worse, because they don't have anything other than going against the main cast, of course they are going to lose the majority of the time. There isn't some huge war for them to fully go and start doing actual fighting yet.


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Last edited by Zenwolf on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 08:10 PM

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 08:04 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A step up from that, Ventress, Dooku and Sidious put the Inquisitors to shame. Even Grievous is more badass and more effective than them.


I feel the exact opposite. Vader, Tarkin, and yes even the GI were far more effective and threatening villains than Ventress, Dooku, or Grievous ever were in TCW.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 08:12 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
I feel the exact opposite. Vader, Tarkin, and yes even the GI were far more effective and threatening villains than Ventress, Dooku, or Grievous ever were in TCW.
Due to the weak resistance they were up against. Dooku and the separatist army would steamroll the rebels. The mere fact that the rebels did prevail over the galactic army despite being both numerically and firepower wise outgunned is a testament to the arrogance of the galactic empire that came from the emperor all the way down through the ranks.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 09:35 PM
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ares834
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What's your point there? Of course this is all relative to the protagonists.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 09:54 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
What's your point there? Of course this is all relative to the protagonists.
That the Separatists maul them. Stormtroopers of the galactic empire are the worst. The droids while pathetic hammered the Jedi in the attack on geonosis. I can only imagine how many Stormtroopers the Jedi group of that size would rip through.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:00 PM
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ares834
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So your point is irrelevant to the thread. This thread is about which are the more effective and entertaining villains not which are more powerful.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:06 PM
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Zenwolf
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Hmm...actually I did overlook the OP, but still the CIS has more exposure for now. Though I see the Inquisitors becoming something more entertaining and the like. Still as noted, this isn't really a fair comparison as far effectiveness given we don't see the whole Empire compared to the CIS in full war engagements.

Last edited by Zenwolf on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 10:10 PM

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:08 PM
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The_Tempest
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
So your point is irrelevant to the thread. This thread is about which are the more effective and entertaining villains not which are more powerful.


I think you have it flipped: The Empire is definitely more powerful than the Separatists. But whether they're as effective or entertaining from a story perspective is what's debatable.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:17 PM
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The_Tempest
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hmm...actually I did overlook the OP, but still the CIS has more exposure for now. Though I see the Inquisitors becoming something more entertaining and the like. Still as noted, this isn't really a fair comparison as far effectiveness given we don't see the whole Empire compared to the CIS in full war engagements.


Why wouldn't it be a fair comparison? It's not about which is more effective in a full war situation. It's about which is more effective and entertaining narratively. Because while you may argue that Rebels has given the Empire less opportunity to shine, you could also make the argument it's given it less opportunity to screw up.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:18 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Empire is definitely more powerful than the Separatists.


No doubt. I simply wasn't entertaining the argument and letting Quan derail another thread with his nonsense.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:23 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Why wouldn't it be a fair comparison? It's not about which is more effective in a full war situation. It's about which is more effective and entertaining narratively. Because while you may argue that Rebels has given the Empire less opportunity to shine, you could also make the argument it's given it less opportunity to screw up.


Well that's kinda hard when the central characters can't be in any sort of danger. I mean at least with TCW, you had Clones and Jedi dying...heck has anyone on the Rebels side even died? I literally only recall those pilots that were taken out by Vader and that transport ship I guess.

Narratively, Dave is making the Empire look like a bunch of morons that they can't seem to deal with a Rebel Cell. Which then begs the question of how the Empire during the OT was making them retreat all throughout.

They STILL are using codes from the CLONE WARS. Now how stupid is that from a narrative perspective?

I don't even know what Empire this is, because compared to the OT and comics...it might as well be a completely different one.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:26 PM
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ares834
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The villains being bumbling morons is just what happens in a cartoon aimed at kids. It sucks, but there it is. At least with Rebels it's new characters like Kallus rather than an established bad ass like Grievous.


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Last edited by ares834 on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 10:35 PM

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:33 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
The villains being bumbling morons is just what happens in a cartoon aimed at kids. It sucks, but there it is. At least with Rebels its new characters like Kallus rather than an established bad ass like Grievous.


I guess and yeah the new characters introduced are pretty good, although I really only like Kanan, Kallus and the GI. Everyone else I'm just kinda....meh on.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:36 PM
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ares834
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No love for Chopper. stick out tongue

I'm surprised you like Kallus given how incompetent he is. I enjoy him as well though.


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Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:39 PM
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The_Tempest
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well that's kinda hard when the central characters can't be in any sort of danger. I mean at least with TCW, you had Clones and Jedi dying...heck has anyone on the Rebels side even died? I literally only recall those pilots that were taken out by Vader and that transport ship I guess.

Narratively, Dave is making the Empire look like a bunch of morons that they can't seem to deal with a Rebel Cell. Which then begs the question of how the Empire during the OT was making them retreat all throughout.

They STILL are using codes from the CLONE WARS. Now how stupid is that from a narrative perspective?

I don't even know what Empire this is, because compared to the OT and comics...it might as well be a completely different one.


I don't disagree. That sounds like a lot of good reasons to believe the Empire isn't as entertaining or effective.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:44 PM
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The_Tempest
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
The villains being bumbling morons is just what happens in a cartoon aimed at kids. It sucks, but there it is. At least with Rebels it's new characters like Kallus rather than an established bad ass like Grievous.


During the promotional blitz for the Inquisitor, the writers mentioned they were specifically trying to avoid the trope about the weekly-beaten bad guy.

I can't brush aside whatever failures are there simply because the writers elected to have a more juvenile approach to storytelling, especially when they're obviously aware of it.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:46 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
During the promotional blitz for the Inquisitor, the writers mentioned they were specifically trying to avoid the trope about the weekly-beaten bad guy.

I can't brush aside whatever failures are there simply because the writers elected to have a more juvenile approach to storytelling, especially when they're obviously aware of it.


The Inquisitor was never beaten though save for that final duel. Prior to that, every-time he showed up the Rebels were forced to retreat.

So with him at least, I felt the writers did a great job.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:49 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No love for Chopper. stick out tongue

I'm surprised you like Kallus given how incompetent he is. I enjoy him as well though.


I never found him being incompetent really, he handled the AT-ATs well, he beat the snot out of Zeb, I think he did a few other things I can't remember. But I don't recall him being incompetent...but then again I don't rewatch old episodes so I may have missed something.

Chopper I think Rebels tries too hard on him tbh.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2015 10:51 PM
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