Master Kenobi and his padawan have stumbled across two pissed off veterans in the game. They immediately engage each other. To make the match fair the Jedi aren't allowed to directly pull Captain America's shield away from him with there force powers. Anything else goes.......this is goint to be messy.
Setting: Endor forest (Return of the Jedi)
Marvel
*Captain America (Ultimate Avengers)
*Wolverine (Hulk vs.)
Jedi
*Obi-Wan Kenobi (Revenge of the Sith)
*Anakin Skywalker (Revenge of the Sith)
Please explain why you think which team wins. Express the way you see it and put creativity into your answer. Thanks!
Lightsaber cannot cut Adamantium/Cap's Shield.
Last edited by Impediment on Nov 5th, 2009 at 11:01 PM
If your SW fanboysim allows you to believe a lightsabre can cut right through adamantium as it would butter, then Wolverine goes down too.
If you believe a lightsabre can cut through adamantium, but only after a long exposure, ie blade constantly resting against it, then Wolverine will eventually wear down the Jedi and land killing blows.
If you believe a lightsabre can't cut through adamantium at all, same as above.
Wolverine however might solo due to his HF, but that depends...I don't know enough about Wolverine, but how good is his HF during Hulk vs.? Can he recover from being chopped into pieces, or does he still have to be "alive" in order to reform? If he can still recover, then he eventually wins since the Jedi team can't kill him, but if he can't then jedi win easily.
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Fixed. Cap is tough. He traded blows with Hulk, seemed unconcerned from atleast 3 bullet wounds to the upper chest area, and fought on after a stab in the ribcage. Not to mention all of his huge jumps like going out of an airplane without need of a parachute, and jumping out of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s medical facility. The forest on Endor will allow him to work wonders with his shield and ricochet it.
Although the OP stated that the jedi can't yank away the shield, nowhere does it state that they can't simply Force push Cap or TK him like a rag doll. And the jedi can block blaster bolts, especially Obi Wan, who by this time is considered to be THE master of the defensive form Soresu, so they could easily block/dodge Cap's shield.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Neither Jedi has ever showed that ability. Only one who has is Yoda and Tyranus.
Technically, your right, Kenobi shouldn't have problems meeting the shield. But a saber meeting another saber is totally different from one meeting 12 pound shield with Cap wielding it. There'll major force put behind it. Watch Vader and Luke's fights to get a picture of what I'm talking about.
What? Every Jedi that has received sufficient training (and these two, being among the best in the history in the order, are certainly far above average) can levitate and move objects (or in this case, humans).
Now that's true, but couldn't they TK it away? I mean, the OP states that you can't yank it out of Cap's hands, but if he's throwing it at him, are they allowed to TK it then?
If not, then they could still have one of them dodge it, block it, or do something else with it, and even if it knocks them down from the impact of it (after they block it), the other could simply go up to Cap (who doesn't have his shield with him) and attack him. Wolverine won't be fast enough to catch up.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Perhaps not, but throwing them around and slamming them hard to the ground would at least injure Cap. And if Cap tries to throw his shield, one blocks while other throws lightsaber at Cap, who wouldn't be able to block with his shield. If the Jedi don't do this and decide to confront him physically, then either Cap would fair significantly better, however I still believe that either could win. They are stronger/faster/etc. than Cap thanks to their Force enhanced abilities, their lightsabers are virtually weightless (the only weight is the handle) allowing them to swing them very fast, and they have pre cog.
Wolverine however might be the deciding factor. How advanced is his HF in Hulk vs?
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Only way they're killing Capt is with a lightsabre. Ultimate Capt took hits from an enraged Ultimate Hulk and kept coming back, Force-Push/Slams aren't doing shit, but annoying him.
Wolverine had a kick-ass HF in that film, Hulk literally pounded him into the ground and he was up in under a minute, all healed and ready to go.
He was also stabbed through the abdomen by Deathstrike's arm and it didn't bother him all that much.
I disagree. They aren't physically stronger than Steve. They can sprint in short distants at rediculously fast speeds but as far as combat speed is concerned......I'd say Steve is faster. Saber throw? Steve dodges gunfire.
Wolverine took assault rifle rounds from a dozen or so Weapon X commandos and shrugged it off. He is stabbed numerous times in the film but only pisses him off apparently. Hulk ****ed him up real bad in there fight but he was up after 10 seconds. My favorite feat of his was when Hulk punched him hundreds of feet into the air and he free falled his way down without fall breakage. He was up on his feet in under ten seconds.
1. TK would have the very useful effect of denying Cap the ability to move/attack.
2. I dunno that much about Cap, but what class (in comic terms) strength is he about?
3. In close quarters, Jedi have:
Pre Cog (this is very important)
Arguably greater/at least comparable physical attributes
Lightsabers are almost weightless (only weight is the handle), so they could swing it faster
Lightsaber could easily chop Cap in half with one clean stroke if Cap fails to block it, but a strike from Cap's shield wouldn't one shot the Jedi
Plus, if they can TK Wolverine away, they could temporarily team up on Cap until Wolvie gets back.
3. But can Wolverine heal from being beheaded and chopped into pieces?
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
They can stop or slow Capt with the Force; they can't kill him with it. Lightsabre's can, so not sure why you persist with the Force ending him.
Capt was strong enough to flip over some anti-aircraft canon that looked to be about the size of a tank. Also was about to knock Hulk on his ass for a bit.
They can't behead Wolverine, or chop through him. The adamantium, see the OP.
I don't think that TK would end him unless if they're fighting next to a very large cliff or some other situation like that, however I do see TK being a big help for the Jedi by distracting/injuring Cap/Wolvie and denying them the ability to attack.
Can you describe that in greater detail please? Was the cannon on the ground on a flat surface? Was it...etc.
Does the adamantium extend through his head? Because even if so can he recover from having him beheaded halfway to the adamantium spine and chopped halfway in multiple places?
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
1. Jedi aren't going to fight cheap. They've never done what your ensuing they'll do.
2. Ult. Cap is listed at about 2 tons. But as Rob said he flipped a huge cannon so this is debatable. He's much stronger physically than the Jedi.
3. I know Star Wars and am in the SWVF frequently. An overview isn't required.
-But okay, pre-cog is one of there significaqnt advantages in determining the Caps shield trajectory.
-Greater physical stats? They can certainly leap higher. But everything else must go to Cap in a landslide. Jedi fatigue. Cap and Wolverine don't.
-Sure, but do you really think they'll get that shot handily. Cap dodges automatic gunfire casually. A pierce or stab isn't guaranteed to down Cap either. Kleizer stabbed him in the second film. He sucked it up and fought on. Cap may not kill them but remember that he was making Hulk feel his blows.......w/o the shield at times. This is surely something the Jedi won't be used to.
-This is a concievable strategy. But I doubt it'll occur. Anakin won't want to team up. Besides both suck when fighting together(see ep.3 Dooku fight) and both are better duelists while solo.
4. Wolverine cannot be beheaded. His skull and entire skeletal system for that matter is comprised of Adamantium. He can be stabbed though as Lade Deathstrike demonstrated. But you have to cut him in-between the skeleton.
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Force choke can't be performed on any being. That's why Luke didn't force-choke the Rancor and Obi-wan and Anakin didn't choke the spider-tiger or giant Praying mantis. Any assumption that they could force-choke the Hulk, Silver Surfer or Galacticus is pure fan-boy silliness. Prove that in the movie force choke had no physical restrictions. I'll give you that they could prolly force choke Logan but not the Cap.
We had this convo before, no proof was given.
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